Doing Things Over

[dapdrow]

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I have become very interested in applying to DO schools. However, I am worried that my undergraduate education will come into play.

(1) Will it look bad if I retake a class? Years ago, I took the first semester of organic chemistry because that's all that was required by my program. Unfortunately I had an awful professor and I didn't learn anything and ended up with a C. I wanted to retake the first semester before I jumped right into the second semester considering I didn't really learn anything and especially because I cannot recall anything. Is this going to look bad? I'm in the same position with physics. The first time I took physics I took a W (withdrew) because I couldn't understand the professor and just couldn't take having the class so late but when I took it in the summer I got an A. However, I still need the second semester.

(2) My undergraduate career lasted six years, jumping from school to school and major to major. Ultimately, I majored in the health sciences field and graduated cum laude. How bad will this look? I ended up joining a program like Teach For America and I'm currently pursuing my M.S.Ed. in Middle & High School Science Education with a 4.0 GPA. Besides shadowing, what else can I do to show that my interest in DO is very serious, especially because my past indicates a lot of indecisiveness?

(3) How important is a pre-med committee letter? I see that a lot of the schools allow you to apply without them but do they have more weight? I ask because I know that my undergraduate school has very strict guidelines on how to get one and I wouldn't be able to fulfill them.


Thank you.

 

[TheTinker]

Unfortunately, you do appear extremely indecisive. When did you decide that becoming a Physician was for you? and not a teacher?

 

[dapdrow]

Unfortunately, you do appear extremely indecisive. When did you decide that becoming a Physician was for you? and not a teacher?

I've always wanted to pursue it. The majors I've considered have always been in the sciences/health-related fields. I've just been too scared to actually go for it. My brain is more of a hindrance than anything else.


As for teaching, I'm not sure if you're aware of this but most of the people who become Teaching Fellows or the people enrolled in Teach For America aren't usually there to be teachers for life. Most of them, after their commitments, go off and do other things---medical school, veterinary school, law school, etc. It was really an opportunity to ground myself, stop fooling around and actually dedicate myself to something for at least some time. And if you think I haven't been reading the SDN Forums for YEARS now...

...well I have. And I just, for once, would like to go for something without being scared about it.

 

[dapdrow]

Do everything you can to get the letter. Yes, you can do without it, but from my understanding, it holds more weight. My school also had some guidelines/requirements. When speaking with the head of the pre-med committee, in the same conversation he said, "It's really set in stone," and, "Well, it's really not set in stone." Result: I have the letter.

This was one of the things I was worried about. The school I received my undergraduate degree from has very strict requirements that must be met in order to receive the letter. I was thinking of applying as a post-bacc but I only need two more classes. In order for them to even think about giving you the letter, you need to have at least "X" evaluations from every single science course, including the lab courses/letters from your TA. Given that I will be taking no where near the amount of evaluations they require, I don't see that it will happen.

I know that I can get something written from the person reading my thesis and I might be able to get one from my undergraduate program director. But---I don't know. I guess I will see. Thanks so much.

 

[Emerald84]

This was one of the things I was worried about. The school I received my undergraduate degree from has very strict requirements that must be met in order to receive the letter. I was thinking of applying as a post-bacc but I only need two more classes. In order for them to even think about giving you the letter, you need to have at least "X" evaluations from every single science course, including the lab courses/letters from your TA. Given that I will be taking no where near the amount of evaluations they require, I don't see that it will happen.

I know that I can get something written from the person reading my thesis and I might be able to get one from my undergraduate program director. But---I don't know. I guess I will see. Thanks so much.

The best advice I can give is to learn to work with instructors that you feel aren't perfect and stop blaming other for when things don't turn out exactly how you want. Adcoms don't want the excuses. There is always going to be that professor, requirement whatever....Figure out what the system wants to meet your goal and work with it. Adapt your study style, make it work.

 

[creativename]

As for teaching, I'm not sure if you're aware of this but most of the people who become Teaching Fellows or the people enrolled in Teach For America aren't usually there to be teachers for life. Most of them, after their commitments, go off and do other things---medical school, veterinary school, law school, etc. It was really an opportunity to ground myself, stop .

That solves the question of indecisiveness. If they ask you about it, you wanted to teach for the sake of a new experience or something akin to that spin. Period. Next question.

By all means do retake courses if you underperformed in them. Let the reason be because you know you can do better and your grades in certain classes never quite sat well with you, ie be a perfectionist. And whatever you do when retaking those classes accept nothing less than an A on all your test. So don't pile on the classes. Try not to take anything new or too difficult all at once of course. This is a grade polishing semester or two so nothing too fancy.

 

[creativename]

The best advice I can give is to learn to work with instructors that you feel aren't perfect and stop blaming other for when things don't turn out exactly how you want. Adcoms don't want the excuses. There is always going to be that professor, requirement whatever....Figure out what the system wants to meet your goal and work with it. Adapt your study style, make it work.

Good advice. The system he mentioned seems designed to keep its pre-meds from straying from the beaten path. He might be best served by buttering up a professor or two. Perhaps if he does the post-bacc degree the director will be able to help him out or be able to supplement him with a letter for that program. A different university's post bacc might be another option. If all else fails I don't think not having the LOR from the advisory committee will be the end of the world. To my knowledge all SOM's take individual letters in lieu of it.

 

[dapdrow]

Thanks guys. I didn't mean to come off as not accepting responsibility. I have just been very frustrated with the courses offered at my school and I'm very unsure of some things. I did go into teaching (1) because I've always been interested in trying it and (2) I really, really needed to start working. I couldn't afford to be a student anymore.


I plan on retaking Organic Chemistry I so that I can actually learn it before I go onto Organic Chemistry II and because I would like to do well on my MCATs. I will only be taking one course at a time because I plan on to continue working full-time and there is no way around that. By the beginning of the summer, I will be finished with my M.S. and my thesis so I won't have to worry too much about school anymore. The problem with the post-bacc is that I have most of the classes completed so I probably wouldn't be accepted into the post-bacc program that is here.

I'm going to e-mail the program director of my and see if he will still write me one recommendation because he knows me from my science classes pretty well---histology and clinical biochemistry II. I know that I can definitely get one from my graduate program. I also plan on starting to shadow over the summer and perhaps get involved in some research opportunities. I know that I can get LORs from them---I just was worried that the committee letters had very heavy consideration. I have, however, read through the CIB and I have read that they will accept various letters.

I asked my friend who was pre-dental in my school. She ended up going to dental school but didn't receive the committee letter because she didn't end up having every professor from every lecture, lab and recitation related to science and math fill out the evaluations. I know they are pretty strict about it but I'll see what I can do.

Thanks again for you responses. I really appreciate them.

 

[lonewolf1513]

I think taking classes over not a biggie. What really worries me about you app, well... is the fact that even at masters level you chose teaching (which is fine, but i don't think med app comm will look upon it that favorably). You def need more healthcare background and just state that you eventually want to end up teaching med (that'll cover your switch from education to med easily). Good luck with everything.

 

[dapdrow]

I think taking classes over not a biggie. What really worries me about you app, well... is the fact that even at masters level you chose teaching (which is fine, but i don't think med app comm will look upon it that favorably). You def need more healthcare background and just state that you eventually want to end up teaching med (that'll cover your switch from education to med easily). Good luck with everything.

My B.S. is in the health sciences---more specifically, medical laboratory sciences. I have a ton of classes in that area of study---histology, clinical biochemistry I & II, clinical microbiology I & II, cell & tissue culture, immunology, biohazards, hematology, etc. I interned in the microbiology/serology lab at NYU for about two months two summers ago summer. I LOVE the health sciences and I'm all about it but like I said I went into teaching because I decided to pursue a program that would pay for my M.S. and let me work at the same time. I needed to get a job; there was no way I could keep going to school.

I would also love to teach one day, in the future, if I did go into medicine. Thanks for your reply.

 

[creativename]

Thanks guys. I didn't mean to come off as not accepting responsibility. I have just been very frustrated with the courses offered at my school and I'm very unsure of some things. I did go into teaching (1) because I've always been interested in trying it and (2) I really, really needed to start working. I couldn't afford to be a student anymore.

Do not, I beg of you, do not tell an admissions member this. Having a grasp on reality and being cautious with your finances is something they might look down upon. These are people that hear day in and day out about kids who have wanted to be doctors since they were born and some of which have spent exorbitant amounts of money to gain entrance into medical school. They will see your responsible behavior as an unwillingness to sacrifice in order to become a physician or more likely view your decision as flippant and a result of being discontent at your present job. Go with your first answer only. That's all they need to hear come out of your mouth. I've also heard of people use their teaching time as a means of preparing for the MCAT. This depends on what you're teaching though.

They will like that you wanted to be a teacher for the experience. And for the fact that it was like the Teach for America program I think you'll get bonus points for service to your community.

 

[manbeast]

1) I retook organic chem I after getting a C the first time (got an A the second time) - I was only asked about it at one interview. My interviewer told me that less than A grades are common in OChem and that you will rarely (if ever) have to memorize any ochem structures or know anything other than basic Ochem in med school.

2)I went to community college for 3 years and a UC for the last 2 years. Had 3 different majors. I was never asked about this - I think its pretty common to experiment with different majors during undergrad. Teaching is a great experience - some secondaries will ask if you have teaching experience - a doctor benifits from being able to teach.

3) If your school does not offer pre-med commitee letters, youll have to get two LORs from science professors.

Just do your best on the MCAT, build some good medical experiences, and apply broadly. Good luck.

 

[dapdrow]

Do not, I beg of you, do not tell an admissions member this. Go with your first answer only. That's all they need to hear come out of your mouth.

They will like that you wanted to be a teacher for the experience. And for the fact that it was like the Teach for America program I think you'll get bonus points for service to your community.

Oh, I'm not that ******ed. I wouldn't actually mention not wanting to be completely and utterly broke. I was just saying that here.

1) I retook organic chem I after getting a C the first time (got an A the second time) - I was only asked about it at one interview. My interviewer told me that less than A grades are common in OChem and that you will rarely (if ever) have to memorize any ochem structures or know anything other than basic Ochem in med school.

2)I went to community college for 3 years and a UC for the last 2 years. Had 3 different majors. I was never asked about this - I think its pretty common to experiment with different majors during undergrad. Teaching is a great experience - some secondaries will ask if you have teaching experience - a doctor benifits from being able to teach.

3) If your school does not offer pre-med commitee letters, youll have to get two LORs from science professors.

Just do your best on the MCAT, build some good medical experiences, and apply broadly. Good luck.

Thanks manbeast. I'm going to look at how I can maybe get my hands on some more clinical experience (I'm not sure if the 400 hours I have from a few years ago would be enough.) I have some volunteering and other things under my belt but I'd definitely need to work more on that.

 

[dapdrow]

Wow. Times do change and time just passes on by...

Many things happened between my initial post and this one. Unfortunately, I had a major crisis that led to a few setbacks---and obviously a few years off my plans. I actually went back to basics (my B.S.), took my licensing exam and started working in the clinical lab to get back on my feet. Becoming a generalist (in the lab) made me realize how much I absolutely LOVE clinical medicine---and reaffirmed how much I want to be on the other side of it.

I just finished up retaking Organic I (C or C+ the first time---so long ago I can't remember, A this time) and I'm taking Organic II in the spring. I'm just trying to manage working third shift and being semi-sleep deprived. ;-) Hopefully, I can finish physics II up in the summer and then study like a beast for the MCAT.

I still need to brush up on the ECs and patient contact but I have a lot of clinical hours otherwise.

 

[allantois]

Wow. Times do change and time just passes on by...

Many things happened between my initial post and this one. Unfortunately, I had a major crisis that led to a few setbacks---and obviously a few years off my plans. I actually went back to basics (my B.S.), took my licensing exam and started working in the clinical lab to get back on my feet. Becoming a generalist (in the lab) made me realize how much I absolutely LOVE clinical medicine---and reaffirmed how much I want to be on the other side of it.

I just finished up retaking Organic I (C or C+ the first time---so long ago I can't remember, A this time) and I'm taking Organic II in the spring. I'm just trying to manage working third shift and being semi-sleep deprived. ;-) Hopefully, I can finish physics II up in the summer and then study like a beast for the MCAT.

I still need to brush up on the ECs and patient contact but I have a lot of clinical hours otherwise.

Don't forget to take Biochem, Psych, and Sociology for the new MCAT

AAMC wasn't resting in the last 4 years!


PS I wish I had your patience

 

[kalat]

Do not, I beg of you, do not tell an admissions member this. Having a grasp on reality and being cautious with your finances is something they might look down upon. These are people that hear day in and day out about kids who have wanted to be doctors since they were born and some of which have spent exorbitant amounts of money to gain entrance into medical school. They will see your responsible behavior as an unwillingness to sacrifice in order to become a physician or more likely view your decision as flippant and a result of being discontent at your present job. Go with your first answer only. That's all they need to hear come out of your mouth. I've also heard of people use their teaching time as a means of preparing for the MCAT. This depends on what you're teaching though.

They will like that you wanted to be a teacher for the experience. And for the fact that it was like the Teach for America program I think you'll get bonus points for service to your community.

Lol, it's absolutely fine to tell an admissions committee you've considered other careers generally. It shows maturity if you're able to speak about it eloquently. He just has to tip-toe around because he ended up committing to teaching. He has to give them the idea that his choice to commit to teaching only furthered his desire to pursue medicine.

Telling someone in an interview "I've always wanted to be a doctor and I couldn't imagine a life where I wasn't one!" is the most unimaginative, boring, immature answer you can give. You ever see that annoying commercial? "But it's my career and I want it now!" Sounds like a little kid.