Domestic Violence at the Grammys

[tantacles]

Let's talk about it. It's definitely important, especially if you're going to be working as a general practitioner or in emergency medicine.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/horrible-reactions-to-chris-brown-at-the-grammys

For those who don't feel like opening the link, it's a bunch of twitter posts essentially saying, "I'd let Chris Brown punch me. Stop saying that he shouldn't be performing."

But there's also a comment, that I'll quote, that was fantastic:

I love how full to ****ing brimming these comments are with people making sweeping comments about how "stupid" women are, etc. Because that's completely where the focus needs to be in conversations about domestic abuse: on women's stupidity rather than on the abusive behaviour perpetrated and sanctioned by men. You know what the problem with the valorisation of Chris Brown is? The problem is that nobody, including and especially other men, is stopping men from abusing women. Like. Yes. These status updates are a mess and it's ****ed up and not okay when women glamorise or tacitly endorse abuse but let's be real here: these women are not posting in a vacuum and they didn't create this idea; they're posting in the context of a culture where domestic abuse is routinely forgiven and washed away, where music execs and producers and awards shows and etc. will put you on a stage and give you a Grammy three years after you put your girlfriend in the hospital -- they're posting in the context of a culture which tells them implicitly and explicitly to think like this. And somehow they're the ones being critiqued -- not the power structures which keep Chris Brown and Michael Fassbender and a metric ****ton of other abusers in business. These comments are a god damn mess. A mess.

So what's the solution? Because as physicians, we're far more likely to come in contact with the victims. What do you do if your patient continually returns to clinic showing clear signs of abuse? And for the record, consider all gender scenarios, because male to male, male to female, female to male, and female to female domestic violence all exists, whether or not it's reported as such. Would you treat a male who had two black eyes the same way you would treat a female? And should you?

There are so many other factors at play here, and I'll trust that you guys will bring it up.

Oh, and since I know that it's possible that it will come up (We've seen it happen before), let's avoid talking about abortion in this one.

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[sirenomelia]

Let's talk about it. It's definitely important, especially if you're going to be working as a general practitioner or in emergency medicine.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/horrible-reactions-to-chris-brown-at-the-grammys

For those who don't feel like opening the link, it's a bunch of twitter posts essentially saying, "I'd let Chris Brown punch me. Stop saying that he shouldn't be performing."

But there's also a comment, that I'll quote, that was fantastic:

So what's the solution? Because as physicians, we're far more likely to come in contact with the victims. What do you do if your patient continually returns to clinic showing clear signs of abuse? And for the record, consider all gender scenarios, because male to male, male to female, female to male, and female to female domestic violence all exists, whether or not it's reported as such. Would you treat a male who had two black eyes the same way you would treat a female? And should you?

There are so many other factors at play here, and I'll trust that you guys will bring it up.

Oh, and since I know that it's possible that it will come up (We've seen it happen before), let's avoid talking about abortion in this one.

Irrelevant thread. Domestic abuse is a crime and you are obligated report it to law enforcement if you have compelling reason/ suspicion. Theres no discussion.

 

[tantacles]

Irrelevant thread. Domestic abuse is a crime and you are obligated report it to law enforcement if you have compelling reason/ suspicion. Theres no discussion.

Irrelevant to what?

So your care would end there? You report the crime and then send the abused party out the door? No treatment provided? The police aren't going to put an arm in a sling, and a police report doesn't guarantee that she'll press charges or leave.

This thread really made me think. I think as a physician....

I will compile a handout/pamphlet myself about the best resources for people in domestic abuse relationships. A lot of times, they don't know the resources available to them, or they're just too scared to even search for those resources because of the relationship they're in.

I know this might not be the norm, but in a severe situation, I would give the person my phone-number and ask them to contact me if they need someone to talk to or a place to go. But then again, this might be crossing the border from professional to personal. So I don't know, I need to know what's acceptable by the place I'm working at. If it's my own practice, then I would do it.

What if your patient can't read English? Or just can't read?

 

[sirenomelia]

Irrelevant to what?

So your care would end there? You report the crime and then send the abused party out the door? No treatment provided? The police aren't going to put an arm in a sling, and a police report doesn't guarantee that she'll press charges or leave.



What if your patient can't read English? Or just can't read?

No the doctor adresses the medical issues and social services/police provide the social/legal resources/ options.

 

[tantacles]

No the doctor adresses the medical issues and social services/police provide the social/legal resources/ options.

Well, why the insistence on the harsh divide? Yes, police will address the legal issues, but this is about more than that. It's about being a part of a culture that implicitly supports domestic violence and trying to change it in whatever way we can.

Now, if you're not interested in changing the system and think things are perfect, that rates of domestic violence would simply drop to zero if we all just minded our own business, well, the verdict is in: It's not happening.

 

[nuance]

I hope everyone has actually read the police report with all of the details: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/16...ice-report-provides-details-altercation.jhtml

Warning: It's way, way worse than I had imagined.

 

[deleted432032]

You would treat the person for their injuries, I believe you are taking taking what Siren said out of context. As for the abuse, like Siren said, "Domestic abuse is a crime and you are obligated report it to law enforcement if you have compelling reason/ suspicion." I do not believe there is anything else to do without crossing the line between professional and personal, as a physician you really should stay on the professional side with your patients.

Just my opinion, answers may vary here.

 

[FattySlug]

What are we discussing here? Are there underlying issues I am not aware of in this case? Doctors are required to report to the police if they suspect any kinda abuse going on right? Doctors are medical personnel; they take care of medical issues and report any other issues to the appropriate agency.

Or are we talking about raising awareness or how the Grammy sent out the wrong message to invite Chris Brown?

Edit: Yes we should treat a man with signs of being abused the same as we would treat a woman. The answer is pretty obvious.

 

[tantacles]

What are we discussing here? Are there underlying issues I am not aware of in this case? Doctors are required to report to the police if they suspect any kinda abuse going on right? Doctors are medical personnel; they take care of medical issues and report any other issues to the appropriate agency.

Or are we talking about raising awareness or how the Grammy sent out the wrong message to invite Chris Brown?

Edit: Yes we should treat a man with signs of being abused the same as we would treat a woman. The answer is pretty obvious.

Well, I envisioned this thread discussing our role as confidants for the abused and how we might be able to facilitate change, but I guess, according to most people on this forum, the answer is "Report the abuse and mind your own business. Don't stick your nose in the patient's personal life, even if s/he gets his/her arm broken 17 times."

 

[nuance]

What are we discussing here? Are there underlying issues I am not aware of in this case? Doctors are required to report to the police if they suspect any kinda abuse going on right? Doctors are medical personnel; they take care of medical issues and report any other issues to the appropriate agency.

Or are we talking about raising awareness or how the Grammy sent out the wrong message to invite Chris Brown?

I think we are discussing the issues you might encounter as a physician faced with an obviously or not-so-obviously abused (or abusing) patient.

I know it was slightly off topic, but I posted the link to the police report about Chris Brown because I don't think many people understand how serious it actually was. Reading the police report led to an emotional reaction in me, similar to the emotional reaction one may feel when dealing with victims of abuse. This emotional reaction may or may not affect how a doctor deals with such cases.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

What are we discussing here? Are there underlying issues I am not aware of in this case? Doctors are required to report to the police if they suspect any kinda abuse going on right? Doctors are medical personnel; they take care of medical issues and report any other issues to the appropriate agency.

Edit: Yes we should treat a man with signs of being abused the same as we would treat a woman. The answer is pretty obvious.

It's all about the lines and not crossing them. You provide medical help, inform the patient about his/her options, promote awareness, report it to the authorities and let them handle it. It is not a doctor's responsibility to walk into a wife beater's home and dole out justice.

 

[FattySlug]

Well, I envisioned this thread discussing our role as confidants for the abused and how we might be able to facilitate change, but I guess, according to most people on this forum, the answer is "Report the abuse and mind your own business. Don't stick your nose in the patient's personal life, even if s/he gets his/her arm broken 17 times."

Thanks for the clarification. I am obviously no doctor so are they not already serving as confidants for the abused? What changes do you think that we should promote for our current system? What extra things do you think that doctors should do besides reporting such crimes? I don't think there is anything appropriate for physicians to do besides the obvious like treating injuries, reporting the crimes and provide temporary shelter for the victims while letting local authority do their things. All of which I think doctors are already required to do.

I think we are discussing the issues you might encounter as a physician faced with an obviously or not-so-obviously abused (or abusing) patient.

I know it was slightly off topic, but I posted the link to the police report about Chris Brown because I don't think many people understand how serious it actually was. Reading the police report led to an emotional reaction in me, similar to the emotional reaction one may feel when dealing with victims of abuse. This emotional reaction may or may not affect how a doctor deals with such cases.

Yea I never knew it was that bad.

 

[mishaS]

they're posting in the context of a culture where domestic abuse is routinely forgiven and washed away, where music execs and producers and awards shows and etc. will put you on a stage and give you a Grammy three years after you put your girlfriend in the hospital

I take issue with this notion, that people should not be forgiven for their past mistakes. It's this sort of mentality, that you should be forever marked as a bad person, that does just that, and drives people back into crime rather than rehabilitation. The person who wrote that would like be an advocate for the "justice" levied by our courts, that has felons and ex cons forever branded as criminals, unable to get a decent job, degree, or certification, and leaves them unable to succeed in a life outside of crime. I remember one man venting his frustration, that he could not get a job or degree after the mistakes made in his youth, so he started his own successful company. It became so successful that he needed an expanded line of credit - his bank did a background check, he failed it, they cut off all lines of credit, and his hard work was destroyed (and lots of people lost their jobs). Now that's justice.

 

[BA11]

Men who physically abuse women are low-life trash, period. I don't care what the excuse is, unless she's coming at you with a knife there is never a time when hitting a lady is ok.

 

[mishaS]

Men who physically abuse women are low-life trash, period. I don't care what the excuse is, unless she's coming at you with a knife there is never a time when hitting a lady is ok.

That's a pretty misogynistic idea honestly. It implies that unless a women has a deadly weapon she poses no physical threat to a man; women are too weak to harm a strong man.

 

[BA11]

That's a pretty misogynistic idea honestly. It implies that unless a women has a deadly weapon she poses no physical threat to a man; women are too weak to harm a strong man.

I'm sure you also think it's mysogynistic to open doors for women since they are fully capable of opening them themselves...

Anyway, women ARE too weak to physically harm the average man in most cases, that's why 99.9% of domestic abuse cases are down the same one way street. Many women WOULD fight back if they could. It's not mysogynistic to say most women cannot physically overpower the average male anymore than it is to say that most women are physically shorter than the average male. It's just reality, and as with most things there are outliers.

This isnt even factoring in the lost art of chivalrous behavior which is completely independent of the size or strength of the individuals. You don't hit women, if you think that's archaic then we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[tantacles]

I'm sure you also think it's mysogynistic to open doors for women since they are fully capable of opening them themselves...

Anyway, women ARE too weak to physically harm the average man in most cases, that's why 99.9% of domestic abuse cases are down the same one way street. Many women WOULD fight back if they could. It's not mysogynistic to say most women cannot physically overpower the average male anymore than it is to say that most women are physically shorter than the average male. It's just reality, and as with most things there are outliers.

This isnt even factoring in the lost art of chivalrous behavior which is completely independent of the size or strength of the individuals. You don't hit women, if you think that's archaic then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I've always felt that the more universal "You don't hit people" was a better rule. In that sense, I agree with you. No one should hit women because no one should hit anyone.

And with regard to women not being able to overpower men, most women I know wouldn't have too much trouble, at least physically, damaging a man's eyes or crotch, which would pretty much incapacitate him.

 

[Narmerguy]

This kind of content doesn't belong in Pre-Allo. Please try to confine these sorts of discussions to appropriate forums, like the lounge.