Don't listen to 'em

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
T

Triangulation

1K Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
1,227
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Orange
  1. Pharmacist
Members do not see this ad.
People on this board are fond of sayin that you won't need your o-chem and p-chem for pharm school ec in some kind of abstract sense. THEY'RE DEAD WRONG We started the pharmaceutics course at SC yesterday and our prof started by throwing indinavir up on powerpoint and asking us which would be the first functional group to ionize. I love o-chem and I like to think i'm pretty good at it, and I was dead wrong. He then threw the pH diagram up with all of the values of ionization on it. We received a 34 page packet for this week called 'functional group chemistry' It was about 1/2 o-chem, 1/4 g-chem, and 1/4 p-chem.

I say this not to scare peeps, but to inform you that contrary to pop belief you will need this stuff later on.

I know, i know. not all of you r going to sc, but a lot of you might be. It's not gonna be much different, probably worse, at ucsd or ucsf.

at any rate......
 
What part of the material was P-chem? I don't see much of an application of P-chem in pharmacy school. I took it as an undergrad and droppped it when I realized that it was going to hurt my GPA. Seemed like P-chem was in it's own little world. Functional groups I can understand, but calculus based P-chem in pharmacy school??

By the way, I'm off to orientation, Day 1 right now. Wish me luck.
 
wow. you're just starting orientation? I feel like i've been in school for a month, and it's been officially two days. I'll describe my wonderful packet when i get back. just for the record, i hate g-chem and p-chem. 🙁
 
Wow it seems like the Cali schools are so different from the schools here out on the east!

I had a whole year of p'ceutics and I must say that the course did not enlighten me a whole lot. I didn't feel that taking the course would make me a much better pharmacist, and also I felt that the hours could be better spent on some other subject/topic.

There was some O-chem involved, but there wasn't much P-chem as far as the class here in concerned.
 
Just fer the record, I think I said at sometime in the distant past something about the importance of pH/pKa and the effect on ionization state of a drug compound (non-ionized form readily crossing cell membranes), and everyone's favorite Henderson Hasselbach equation. 😉 At least you'll never really see SN1/SN2 reactions, etc. in your classes... In other words, the vast majority of the stuff you did in O-Chem (reactions, synthesis, etc.) won't really be seen in pharm school. Just your knowledge of functional groups, nomenclature, and a lot of that equilibrium stuff from G-Chem.

BTW, I didn't have p'ceutics until sometime in the last half of my 1st year...you guys are hitting the ground running!
 
I didn't remember any instances of reactive chemistry, just metabolism and MAJOR acid/base and reaction equilibria that one should have picked up in General Chemistry. There is some functional group ID for some drugs in Med Chem, but we think of it here as Pharmacology-lite.

I have not used Physical Chemistry anywhere, period (took the engineering version during prepharm). I suppose it could be utilized in Pharmaceutics, but the concepts are basic and general enough to pick up in General Chemistry, and I know we all use the same texts.

It would help to take Analyical Chemistry for lab technique though.
 
I received my notes packet for Med Chem and it is one inch thick. Thank God the course is over on Sept 29th. The only O-Chem is functional groups and how they react as acids, bases, solubility, etc. There is no synthesis or mechanisms which was the bulk of O-Chem. Two other classes of mine have chemistry but it's all PH, Henderson Hasselbach, receptor binding - all biochem and gen chem pretty much.
 
Originally posted by Triangulation
wow. you're just starting orientation? I feel like i've been in school for a month, and it's been officially two days. I'll describe my wonderful packet when i get back. just for the record, i hate g-chem and p-chem. 🙁
Click to expand...
Yup. Orientation, Day 1: Check. 😛
(edit) Day 2: Check
Day 3: Check
 
unfortunately pchem and med chem drag u throught all of that and it's all COMPLETELY WORTHLESS not one pharmacist unless u happen to be in medicinal chemistry reasearch uses that info... heck I forgot it as soon as the exam was over
 
hey as rutpharm im sure would agree the med chem class at rutgers was a killer..............heck you know who is a pharmacy student at rutgers from the med chem cards that they walk around with campus........it was such a pain memorizing those structures...........i remember staying up all night trying to differentiate all the different beta-blockers but it was worth it ..................i learned more therapeutics i think in med chem than thera peutics..........................
 
bump, so i won't forget to post again on this.
 
So you need p-chem? I checked all the pre-reqs for pharm schools and none of them require p-chem I thought. So should I take this then?
 
Originally posted by Suey
So you need p-chem? I checked all the pre-reqs for pharm schools and none of them require p-chem I thought. So should I take this then?
Click to expand...

no suey. don't take it. if it's not a pre-req don't take it. it's hard and your gpa will go down unnecessarily. don't let the first levels scare you...triangulation is just freaking out like all first levels do. by next year he will realize that he was freaking out for nothing. i had the exact same class 2yrs ago w/the exact same 34 pg packet...i freaked too at first but it was fine. look at the lvpharm's and lord999 posts--that's the stuff you need to know and they will probably review all that for you or you can save an ochem book to use for reference if you need it.
 
No reason to go out and take P-Chem (it's up to you, you think you and your GPA can handle the abuse? 😉 ). It's not a pharm school prerequisite. At one time, UCSF required a course in "quantitative analysis" (a different, but another high level chem course), but I don't think they have that requirement now.
 
riangulation is just freaking out like all first levels do. by next year he will realize that he was freaking out for nothing. i had the exact same class 2yrs ago w/the exact same 34 pg packet...i freaked too at first but it was fine. look at the lvpharm's and lord999 posts--that's the stuff you need to know and they will probably review all that for you or you can save an ochem book to use for reference if you need it.
Click to expand...

I think there is a difference bw memorizing it for the exam and understanding wtf is goin on. For me, I'll choose the latter. If you can't describe why in detail one group is more likely to ionize within a system due to myriad reasons sterics, inductive effects, acidity of medium or administration route, general external functional group effects then you're not going to be able to predict what happens. My argument is always going to be why memorize it when you can understand it. Then it's just a matter of applying principles rather than searching for pictures in your head.

Not to be uncongenial, but the stakes are higher and the curriculum is different for level 1s at SC than 2nd and 3rd levels. There is no remediation or retaking. The whole orientation week 2nd years were telling me don't worry you can always retake. We don't get that option this year. If you withdraw from one class, you withdraw for the year. As well as the new grading policy where you're on warning for if your gpa fall belows a 3.10. Dr . Weissman made this painfully clear at orientation. You'll be put on academic probation if you have 2.99 to 2.5.
 
Originally posted by Triangulation
I think there is a difference bw memorizing it for the exam and understanding wtf is goin on. For me, I'll choose the latter. If you can't describe why in detail one group is more likely to ionize within a system due to myriad reasons sterics, inductive effects, acidity of medium or administration route, general external functional group effects then you're not going to be able to predict what happens. My argument is always going to be why memorize it when you can understand it. Then it's just a matter of applying principles rather than searching for pictures in your head.

Not to be uncongenial, but the stakes are higher and the curriculum is different for level 1s at SC than 2nd and 3rd levels. There is no remediation or retaking. The whole orientation week 2nd years were telling me don't worry you can always retake. We don't get that option this year. If you withdraw from one class, you withdraw for the year. As well as the new grading policy where you're on warning for if your gpa fall belows a 3.10. Dr . Weissman made this painfully clear at orientation. You'll be put on academic probation if you have 2.99 to 2.5.
Click to expand...

did i say anything at all about memorizing??? i'm totally the type who is hardcore about understanding material rather than memorizing. i believe i received the 2nd highest grade (a very high A) in that class when i took it. Believe me, i didn't do that well on Dr. haworth's exams by just memorizing. it's impossible. i really knew my stuff. you act like i've never taken this class before--i know what it entails. you don't have describe it to me.

the reason this class has remained my favorite class in pharm school so far is cuz i learned sooooooooo much. i'm not saying i didn't study a hell of a lot for it but i'm saying, where did you get this memorizing crap from? no one will pass if they only try and memorize--it's not that type of class inherently.

i even offered my help and advice for this class in another thread but if you'd rather assume that i don't know jack **** about what i'm talking about, that's totally cool.

as for the new academic policy, you think i got this far by retaking?? i did not pass haworth's class by retaking. the reason they toughened up the requirements is cuz students became way too lax and too many people were showing up at the make up exams. it was ridiculous. you seem like a smart person and i was only trying to convey to suey that you are worrying for nothing just like i did and just like everyone else did but that's totally normal. i have no doubt that you will at least get a B in this class if not an A. in addition, i know the way dr. haworth grades--he's extremely fair. but again if you'd rather believe that i don't know wtf i'm saying, fine. i only wanted to help. if there was anyone to ask about this class and how to study for it, it was me. but i guess i'm only good for memorizing stuff, right?
 
Hey if you wanna get all pissy about this then let's go. I didn't say one thing about you. I'm not talking about you. i don't know anything about you ec that you need to seriously chill out. I'm not here to argue. None of my comments are here to deride or are directed at anyone.

What am i saying is, and I've been on this board for a while is, people like to say that chem and particularly o-chem don't come up again in pharm school and that's BS.

You can PM me and we can discuss this on campus if you want.

The fact is the bar has been raised, i'm not saying you had to re-take it. I'm saying we don't get that option, so we can't f up.

I'm sure you're a bright guy, but don't tell me what i already know. if you don't know your chem that packet isn't gonna make sense. If you can argue against that, then i'll pay your tuition.
 
lilmk,

believe me we're on the same side, but i've already got classmates confused bc they've forgotten acyl hydrolysis reactions and how to tell oxidizers. Wouldn't it be better if these people just came in knowing how this stuff worked? these peeps aren't doomed, but it's gonna be rougher and it didn't have to be.

The more chem you know is only gonna help, and it patently can't hurt.
 
first of all, i'm a girl. second, you are the one who got all pissy and assumed that i'm a total idiot. where do you get off w/that attitude and not expect a response???? and it obviously was directed at me cuz you quoted me. a tone like that from you esp. when i've only tried to be helpful and honest this whole time was uncalled for and to make me sound like i'm some memorizing idiot who doesn't know anything was unfair. you have an arrogance about you and that's fine but don't expect to not get a reaction now and then--c'mon. you know very well that i was in your shoes just 2yrs ago and then to act like you know it all and that i don't know anything will of course induce a reaction from me.

when i freaked out during level 1 and talked to level 3s about this course i didn't go bite their heads off and say "oh forget it---what do you know anyway? " who's gonna wanna be on your team when you act like that? i was only trying to reassure you that you're worrying more than you need to and trying to tell suey not take p-chem needlessly.

i get your point but my point is if you're going to be so dismissive of someone who knows a lot about this course, don't expect a sweety pie response.

and btw, i never said you don't need ochem for this course. i told suey that indeed you do and to keep an ochem book handy for reference. i also told suey to refer to lvpharm and lord999's posts, as they pretty much listed all the ochem crap that will be needed. but my main point was there really isn't any p-chem. if there was, haworth covered enough for us to be ok. it was a really tough class and i study my a** off for it--i won't deny that but once i quickly reviewed some ochem the first week of school, haworth's awesome note packets became my bible for that class.
your chem foundation is obviously a lot stronger than mine was so that's what i've been trying to tell you...you'll be fine. if you need to do some reviewing, do it. it's just in the beginning though that they kinda throw the chem stuff at you. later you'll see why the upper levels told you that the chem won't really come back to haunt you (at least not in a big way).
 
Let's keep the conversation civil, folks.

I understand what Tri is trying to say here, and he has his own perspective from a person actually taking a ceutics course at this moment. Some of us have the benefit or hinderance of hindsight, or a third person perspective...we can't understand what he's going through right now because we're not in his class (which could be taught differently this year from previous years?).

In any case, attack the topic, not the person 😉
 
who said i was attacking him? i was in exactly his shoes w/the same note packet two years ago which i still have. i remember the indinavir being thrown up on the powerpoint on the first day---believe me, it is the same class. in fact i'm trying to tell him i remember exactly how he feels and not to worry. and for some reason he assumes that i didn't actually take the time learn the material--just memorize it. where did he get that? that did feel like a personal diss.

i'm not attacking him--i'm defending myself and my response. i was only trying to help and i get dismissed completely. i understand his position entirely but i don't think he quite gets mine or even took the time to properly read my posts before he starts refuting them.

and it's because i have the benefit of hindsight that i was trying to lend my 2cents. sorry for trying to help. i'll stop now.
 
Oh, I'm not saying you're attacking him, but it's becoming personal on both sides when it need not be. "Attack the topic, not the person" is like a general internet forum rule that basically sez you've got to keep yourself from taking (or following) a conversation to a lower, personal level. Just let it slide...

Everyone appreciates your 2 cents here (that's what this forum's all about 😉 ), and it's up to the person to take it or leave it. If Tri chooses to not take it, it's his perogative. I know you said nothing about memorizing, I read your posts.
 
ok, lv. cool.
 
lilmk,

I apologize if the perception was I attacked you. That certainly is never my intent. I can honestly say, I've yet to see a person on this board who wasn't clearly very intelligent, and you are no exception. Your insight, particularly to me since we're in the same program, is valued.

I've debated with a lot people on this board, and the last thing I want is for any of them to stop posting. I don't like to argue, but I honestly think that sometimes they bring out a wealth of information.

I actually try to adhere to attacking the argument. It's never a personal attack. If you think what I say is crap, then please explain why.

At any rate, please keep posting.
 
well, i've said my peace already tri. i did call you out already on what i thought was crap. what i was trying to say is that i actually agree w/you that ochem is required (that was not crap and i'm not refuting that one bit). what i was arguing w/you was my understanding of the course and what you're going thru---i know it's not a memorization class and i was calling you out on that ( i was wondering where in my post you thought that i implied that). it just seemed like you thought i don't know what you are going thru and i totally totally do. this class scared me a lot and yet i did well w/a weak chem background so i just wanted to reassure you that you will be just fine. i know your pain completely and i sympathize--i'm not trying to belittle your concerns. i'm trying to acknowledge them and reassure you. honestly, tri i'm sorry if my response was pissy. i was just taken aback by your response, as no one else has responded to me that way when i tried to guide them on this class.

anyway, truce tri?? best of luck to you in this course. i'm still here to help if you need it or if you just need to vent about the class. i have some tips for you when dr. erikson starts lecturing (is he still lecturing--hope not). you'll be even more frustrated w/him and haworth starts to seem like heaven in comparison.
 
Where are you level 3's anyway? I only see 2's running around in PSC.
 
really? that's funny cuz level 2s have class from 1-5pm while level 3 has class from 9-3pm. we are in room 112. that is the room across from the girl's bathroom. i sit in the back of the class.
 
I'll track ya down on Tuesday. Just look for a 5'11'' Asian guy with a goatee. Like every other day, I'll be in a cut-off t, shorts, and black flip-flops. You can be my eldest sib😉

You should meet my most excellent classmates Lyzziebeth and BMBiology too. It's funny bc i know a few L4's and of course L2's but no L3s. At any rate, cheers!
 
i'm 5'1"--very tiny girl sitting near the back. ya i've been wanting to meet bmbio as well. now we can make our truce official
 
eh tri, are you guys taking the genetics course this semester? if so is dr. johnson the coordinator? if yes, then that is the class to actually worry about passing. i know it sounds weird cuz that class isn't too hard material-wise but for some reason lots of people used to have to do retake on that one. this is the class that people have to retake the most. don't know why. pharmaceutics is way harder but they try to make sure everyone passes when they do the grades. but the genetics class...they are not so nice about it. it's weird. 😕 but just fyi
 
Tri: I can hook you up with some mad genetics info if you ever need it.

:horns:
 
eh tri, are you guys taking the genetics course this semester? if so is dr. johnson the coordinator?
Click to expand...

yeah and no. the coordinator is this guy w/ a spanish last name.

Thanks for the warning. My major was cell/molecular so hopefully they won't be able to throw too many curves at me in that class. You'll definitely need to lemme know what to expect though. I ordered the test packet (along with about 15 other people so we could mitigate the cost) so hopefully i can see what to focus on from those.

I honestly think they're gonna have to ease up on this new policy. I've never heard of anything so lame as not being able to re-take or remediate a course anywhere. They're gonna land up losing students and the students won't take that lying down.
 
Originally posted by Triangulation
I honestly think they're gonna have to ease up on this new policy. I've never heard of anything so lame as not being able to re-take or remediate a course anywhere. They're gonna land up losing students and the students won't take that lying down.
Click to expand...
😱
Tri, I'd have to agree with you on this one. A 3.10 is the LOWEST that you can have before going "on warning"?! That seems insane. A 3.25 is cum laude at most schools! Can you get GPA statistics on the previous classes at USC? Common sense tells me that not every student had above a 3.10 gpa. I'd be very curious to see what percent of students had above a 3.10 gpa last year at USC, or any pharmacy school. Not that it's impossible, but getting a warning for maintaining a "B" average?! By the way, this is a 3.10 out of 4.0, right?
 
Originally posted by Triangulation
yeah and no. the coordinator is this guy w/ a spanish last name.

Thanks for the warning. My major was cell/molecular so hopefully they won't be able to throw too many curves at me in that class. You'll definitely need to lemme know what to expect though. I ordered the test packet (along with about 15 other people so we could mitigate the cost) so hopefully i can see what to focus on from those.

I honestly think they're gonna have to ease up on this new policy. I've never heard of anything so lame as not being able to re-take or remediate a course anywhere. They're gonna land up losing students and the students won't take that lying down.
Click to expand...

you know the new policy does seem kind of cut throat. i don't know why they raised the min gpa so much. maybe they feel that you guys can handle it since the application pool has become more competitive in the last two years? i don't know. maybe they feel that you guys won't need a retake net to fall back on???

with regard to the genetics...if the coordinator has changed i don't think anyone will have a problem passing. the former one would write some weird, tricky exams (the course material not being difficult at all) and so getting a decent grade was not easy. but i think i know who your new coordinator is and he is way cool.

maybe they eliminated the retake policy for you guys cuz they eliminated the classes that most often failed students. before the classes that held people back the most were genetics (w/that other coordinator) and biochem (which they phased out).
 
Bumping this delightful tale of decent people working out their differences while highlighting their commonalities😛
 
First Triangulation said...
Hey if you wanna get all pissy about this then let's go. I didn't say one thing about you. I'm not talking about you. i don't know anything about you ec that you need to seriously chill out. I'm not here to argue. None of my comments are here to deride or are directed at anyone.
Click to expand...

...and then lilmk said:
first of all, i'm a girl. second, you are the one who got all pissy and assumed that i'm a total idiot. where do you get off w/that attitude and not expect a response???? and it obviously was directed at me cuz you quoted me. a tone like that from you esp. when i've only tried to be helpful and honest this whole time was uncalled for and to make me sound like i'm some memorizing idiot who doesn't know anything was unfair. you have an arrogance about you and that's fine but don't expect to not get a reaction now and then
Click to expand...

But then Triangulation said...
lilmk, apologize if the perception was I attacked you. That certainly is never my intent...
Click to expand...

and lilmk said...
anyway, truce tri??
Click to expand...

guess what Triangulation said...
I'll track ya down on Tuesday. Just look for a 5'11'' Asian guy with a goatee.
Click to expand...

...and wouldn't ya know it? lilmk said:
i'm 5'1"--very tiny girl sitting near the back.
Click to expand...

Triangulation talking to his son:
"...and that's how I met your mommy."

ahhh! Tell it again Dad! Tell it again!!!
😍 😍 😍
 
This is so funny jason UCSD2000


hahahahaha 🙂
 
ya, tri only wishes...
 
good one Jason.
 
The coordinator is Dr. Cadenas, who is a really nice person and he tries to pass as many people as possible. In general, everyone pass, I don't know of anyone who did not. The class everyone had the most difficulty with was Pharmacuetics, that is probably because the professor made the final more difficult than the previous years. I think a descent amount, 8-15 people took the retake. Not sure, but that was the one I heard gave people the most trouble. Do well on the case study because that helps to accumulate points. Talk to Dr. Romero about it, she helps a lot.
3.1 is way too high as the majority of the class gets B. Roughly 20% got A, 60% B, and the last 20% gets C, D, F from what I remember. So this would mean that the majority of the class is on Academic probation?
Yes they did get rid of some of the more difficult classes for u tri, biochem and micro being two of them. Genetics they switch to an easier coordinator, and they did increase the units on the easy class, like communication, leadership, and externship. From what I heard, they lump it all into all one big class with one final grade. Which is crazy because now u guys have to get A in all three of those sections. I would agree, 3.1 is still way too high.
 
Hmmmm u sound cute lilmk! Hey I am not dumb but I don't mind pretending to be to get some tutoring from u! puahaha, are u single? lol
 
whatever. i'm too hot for you😉
 
But it's not your fault lilmk. I'm too hot for everyone.😛 😉
 
You kick serious a*s Jason!!!!!!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Transferring to a different PharmD program
Replies
4
Views
3K
student0987654321
S
Mr.Smile12
University of Charleston Pharmacy Program to close
Replies
1
Views
4K
PharmtoCS
P
Mr.Smile12
[AJPE] Should pharmacy schools continue to participate in USNews & World Report rankings?
Replies
0
Views
2K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
N
Don’t go to a bad school. NAPLEX pass rate trends
Replies
0
Views
2K
newleaf45
N
D
SDN Article: How to Use Social Media to Your Advantage as a Pharmacy Student
Replies
0
Views
2K
Dr. Jovin Lezeau
D
Top Bottom