Don't want to be an MD or DO? Well now you have a 3rd option

[Okazaki Frag Grenade]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hmmmmm...

http://www.lmunet.edu/news/view?id=77

 

[osckey]

Oh boy, another acronym, another degree to confuse your patients with.

 

[deleted407021]

Oh boy, another acronym, another degree to confuse your patients with.

And yet another group of people with whom MD/DOs will quarrel in regards to who gets to be called "Doctor".

 

[dentalcpa90]

Wow. First DNP's and now PA's want in on the doctor title too. I wonder if they could practice independently or is this just expensive additional training for them.

 

[mimelim]

Hmmmmm...

http://www.lmunet.edu/news/view?id=77

Just reading this site, it sounds like it is simply further training for PA students. It is only available to PAs who have 3+ years of clinical experience. It also sounds like the majority of it will be online didactics. So really this is just a way of increasing the amount of education that certain PAs get (although I have my doubts as to how much education they are really going to get..)

 

[mimelim]

Oh boy, another acronym, another degree to confuse your patients with.

And yet another group of people with whom MD/DOs will quarrel in regards to who gets to be called "Doctor".

Wow. First DNP's and now PA's want in on the doctor title too. I wonder if they could practice independently or is this just expensive additional training for them.

Y'all should read the article before you comment 😛

 

[deleted407021]

Y'all should read the article before you comment 😛

I did. I don't have any opinion aside from that I could see there being yet another "mid-levels want to be called Doctor" fight. Obviously, this is the first and only if such programs and relegated to a specific region, but I'm preemptively calling it -- there's going to be some b!tchig about it somewhere.

 

[Okazaki Frag Grenade]

I did. I don't have any opinion aside from that I could see there being yet another "mid-levels want to be called Doctor" fight. Obviously, this is the first and only if such programs and relegated to a specific region, but I'm preemptively calling it -- there's going to be some b!tchig about it somewhere.

Although they are focusing on primary/internal med at this point, I could see them wanting to expand to more specialties/surgical areas down the road, since PA's already have a presence in these fields.

 

[Krupke]

Just reading this site, it sounds like it is simply further training for PA students. It is only available to PAs who have 3+ years of clinical experience. It also sounds like the majority of it will be online didactics. So really this is just a way of increasing the amount of education that certain PAs get (although I have my doubts as to how much education they are really going to get..)

Does the program sound any different than what you get from a PA residency (which already exist) minus hands-on clinical experience? I don't see why this degree would be useful

 

[Easonred57]

So are they planning to be licensed as a physician, or as a super PA who still has to be supervised? I would imagine they would eventually want recognition as independent practitioners, therefore licensing as such would be necessary.

 

[Lucca]

So are they planning to be licensed as a physician, or as a super PA who still has to be supervised? I would imagine they would eventually want recognition as independent practitioners, therefore licensing as such would be necessary.

It seems that the idea is to give PAs a pathway to independence to address the primary care needs of a particular area. Thus, it would make sense if licensing was implemented to allow these Super-PAs for independent practice in Appalachia.

I'm not sure where to stand on this. On the one hand, I don't like the idea of a DNP for PAs. Too many doctoral degrees flying around -- can't we just link licensure with another certification that is not necessarily a doctoral degree? That is more of a semantic, spiritual concern. I don't really know about the differences between PA and Physician education and from the PAs I have been able to observe it is not clear to me where the biggest gaps might be and, consequently, the program website does not specify if it is precisely these gaps it aims to fill with its practicum + online courses. On the other hand, primary care, especially in rural areas, is obviously a market that will not clear; that is, we can't seem to incentivize physicians to go there at any affordable price but the non-financial consequences are not tolerable either.

 

[Goro]

PA's equivalent of NP.

Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.

Hmmmmm...

http://www.lmunet.edu/news/view?id=77

 

[Mwooster]

PA's equivalent of NP.

Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.

Agreed, with the wailing and the gnashing

I feel NPs have been equivalent to PAs

This DMS (bs, however you wanna describe it) is now PAs' version of DNP...

Idk how I feel about this. If this expands across the country... phew

 

[Krupke]

Agreed, with the wailing and the gnashing

I feel NPs have been equivalent to PAs

This DMS (bs, however you wanna describe it) is now PAs' version of DNP...

Idk how I feel about this. If this expands across the country... phew

Tbh, this sounds like one of those things where administrators screw over students because they want to make money/power

I know a lot of NPs and I have never met one who isn't pissed about DNPs. DNPs are starting to become more and more required, just like BSNs are now required for RNs. Most nurses I've met think DNPs and BSNs are a waste of their time and money, but they just need it to move on in their career.

Edit: And I hope PAs are able to hold their ground to prevent this bs from spreading if it catches on

 

[PugsAndHugs]

All of these degrees that let people act as a physician without the proper training and education is troubling.

I work with in a dermatology practice with 5 doctors and 2 PAs. First off, the patients call the PAs "doctor" when they first meet for the visit, just because they have a long white coat on and they choose to just go with it. Secondly, for some reason, the PAs see patients on many occasions without any doctor supervision. They diagnose patients, treat patients, and prescribe medication. I assist mainly doctors, but once in a while I assist PAs and how they diagnose patients really scares me. I notice them unconfidently choose a treatment regimen when they could easily go to the next room and ask the physician for their input. I have seen on many instances the doctors reject the proposed diagnosis/treatment plan that the PA originally decided on. The sad thing is that sometimes this happens AFTER the patient visit and after the patient has already left.

Not trying to bash PAs at all, but please know your role. Physician ASSISTANTS should ASSIST physicians, not act like one. I just hope all of these newer programs that give various different licenses without sufficient training do not cause thousands of misdiagnoses and mistreated patients.

 

[raiderette]

So lets just get MD and DO out of the family practice business altogether. In 20-30 years patients will see this level first, then come to the specialists because the DNP, DMS, etc. didn't know enough to treat the patient, and so it will be yet another referral to a specialist. More test, more appointments, more charges! Everybody wins except the patient.

 

[Law2Doc]

So lets just get MD and DO out of the family practice business altogether. In 20-30 years patients will see this level first, then come to the specialists because the DNP, DMS, etc. didn't know enough to treat the patient, and so it will be yet another referral to a specialist. More test, more appointments, more charges! Everybody wins except the patient.

The PCP controls the patient. If doctors don't control that step, they ultimately won't get the referrals, once these noctors/poctors figure out how to sub specialize and self refer. Doctors along with patients can definitely lose here.

That being said, it's hard to know the right fix. Healthcare is too expensive nationally, and these midlevels are likely cheaper, because we don't "waste" all that money on adequate training. And not many doctors I know want to move to Appalacia to practice. (There's a lot of propaganda about Doctor shortages, which is bogus, but this is really a distribution matter, which is valid.) this is a fix for one problem (underserved) which is certain to have huge implications to all of medicine. It will take a few high profile patient deaths to get the public to understand why this is a bad idea, but by then it will be too late.

 

[Flashfan]

and these midlevels are likely cheaper, because we don't "waste" all that money on adequate training

Haven't studies shown that midlevels order more tests and refer more often the MDs? It seem like the savings don't benefit the patients, only insurance companies and hospitals, who do not pass those savings onto the patients. And will these new advanced PAs be required to hold the same malpractice insurance, or will their mistakes continue to be passed on to the physician in charge?

In truth, I like PAs, but I want patients to be able to make informed decisions about their healthcare providers and for patient safety and medical care costs to be consistent regardless of the provider.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

jesus fcking christ. a doctor of physician's assistanceship

 

[Law2Doc]

Haven't studies shown that midlevels order more tests and refer more often the MDs? It seem like the savings don't benefit the patients, only insurance companies and hospitals, who do not pass those savings onto the patients. And will these new advanced PAs be required to hold the same malpractice insurance, or will their mistakes continue to be passed on to the physician in charge?

In truth, I like PAs, but I want patients to be able to make informed decisions about their healthcare providers and for patient safety and medical care costs to be consistent regardless of the provider.

They order more tests but refer to MDs now only because there aren't other midlevels consultants to refer to. (Yet). If you look at the "residencies" that DNPs are creating, you will realize this is all going to change.

 

[MrChance2]

Not for profit Universities should actually be not for profit. Healthcare education is going to bubble just like law did with this stuff. Training more people that are only capable of writing a note and charging for it without actually doing anything is really bad for everyone, yet the only people regulating it are those few that stand to profit from it. I just don't see this ending well without intervention.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Okay, enough talk. What can we DO about this? Do we start a petition? I say we pick up torches and pitch forks. /s

 

[medicalstadent]

is it going to be geared towards primary care then?

 

[TallPreMed]

I see this type of degree being added will turn into a health policy sh* show and I'm eating it up.
I need to run off and go text my PhD friends about this

 

[Psai]

Oh god lol. Another nonsense useless online degree designed to attempt to blur the lines and steal money from healthcare professionals. No one takes the dnp seriously, not even the vast majority of nurse practitioners, and this will be the same

 

[Lawpy]

Hmmmmm...

http://www.lmunet.edu/news/view?id=77

Well at least anyone can be a doctor in anything

 

[moy505]

It also sounds like the majority of it will be online didactics.

I think PA schools actually have pretty good didactics. I know at UIowa they have had the exact same classes/exams/etc. as med students since 2013. I interviewed at that school and the PAs and MDs were indistinguishable in the didactics.

 

[Goro]

My learned colleague is trying hard lately to make me bellow out loud laughing! Good thing I wasn't drinking while reading his post!

noctors/poctors

 

[Screwtape]

All of these degrees that let people act as a physician without the proper training and education is troubling.

I work with in a dermatology practice with 5 doctors and 2 PAs. First off, the patients call the PAs "doctor" when they first meet for the visit, just because they have a long white coat on and they choose to just go with it. Secondly, for some reason, the PAs see patients on many occasions without any doctor supervision. They diagnose patients, treat patients, and prescribe medication. I assist mainly doctors, but once in a while I assist PAs and how they diagnose patients really scares me. I notice them unconfidently choose a treatment regimen when they could easily go to the next room and ask the physician for their input. I have seen on many instances the doctors reject the proposed diagnosis/treatment plan that the PA originally decided on. The sad thing is that sometimes this happens AFTER the patient visit and after the patient has already left.

Not trying to bash PAs at all, but please know your role. Physician ASSISTANTS should ASSIST physicians, not act like one. I just hope all of these newer programs that give various different licenses without sufficient training do not cause thousands of misdiagnoses and mistreated patients.

Doesn't this speak more poorly of the physicians who oversee/own this practice and allow this to happen?

 

[Law2Doc]

is it going to be geared towards primary care then?

For today...

 

[Law2Doc]

Okay, enough talk. What can we DO about this? Do we start a petition? I say we pick up torches and pitch forks. /s

The only thing you can do is raise attention to the issue. Write your congressman. Write your local media commentators. Be on the record able to say "I told you so" as soon as there's a big midlevel screw up.

 

[Psai]

is it going to be geared towards primary care then?

It always is

 

[mehc012]

is it going to be geared towards primary care then?

For today...

It always is

It's already pushing beyond just primary care:

There are three tracks to choose from: primary care, hospital medicine, and emergency medicine.

Kind of funny that their heading is all about "we are aimed at primary care" and then they go ahead and belie that notion right out of the starting gate. And yes, you could make an argument for the ED being, sadly, often used as a form of primary care, but hospital medicine not so much. Plus, it's kind of tell-tale when one of the options is called 'primary care', implying that the next two are something other than primary care.

 

[gwooooooooooooooooooood]

There's one thing you'll learn very quickly when you get to med school. Everyone, from MDs to DOs to NPs to PAs...specialize. They made PAs and NPs to help the primary care shortage, and they all just started specializing. This will end the same I'm sure. They refuse to fix the real roadblocks, which are reduced debt burden and lower reimbursement.