DO's in child psych

[MedChic]

Hello there,
I'm a premed and am extremely interested in pursuing child psych. I like the DO philosophy and hope to apply to DO programs as well as MD programs in the future. I was wondering, however, if it is more difficult for a DO to gain entry into the pursuit of this specific profession? I understand that MD's and DO's are on equal footing in general, but the reality is that some programs favor MD's (like plastic surgery) and I wanted to know if child psych is less/more selective.

Thanks!

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[raspberry swirl]

im a 4th year DO student who is planning on going into child psychiatry ... you have to complete a general psychiatry residency first, before you can complete a child and adolescent fellowship. for the most part, psychiatry is not considered a "competitive" specialty, however, like any other specialty, it is competitive among the big name institutions. i have not felt that my DO degree hindered me in the application/interview process. there were a few big name places that did not interview me- i'll never know if it was because i was a DO or if because i was just generally not a competitive applicant. however, i got a number of allopathic interviews and (fingers crossed) i am pretty sure i will match (assuming i didnt just totally jinx myself). if there is a specific place you would like to do your residency, the best way to get in good favor is to do an elective there. dont forget there are DO psych residencies as well, for which you are only competing against other DO students for spots. however, the number is limited (i believe there are 2 in Michigican (MSU COM), 2 in Texas (TCOM), one in Erie, PA (LECOM), and one in Jersey (UMDNJ). if you have specific questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[grinchick5]

It's funny you ask. Right now, I work at a major, (pretty big name) academic pediatric hospital. Since I'll be attending a DO school in the fall, I like to check the lists of residents and fellows to see how many are DOs (mostly for fun...don't really think I want to do peds). Anyway, the psych dept is like the ONLY one with DOs. Seriously, 6/7 of their fellows are DOs. There are no DO residents and maybe 2 other DO fellows throughout the rest of the sub-specialties.

This is totally anecdotal, of course, but I always found it funny...
I think the consensus is that you can do pretty much anything as long as you're committed. Anyway, I'm not sure how competitive the peds psych fellowships are, so I'll shut up now and invite the experts to weigh in. Anyone....?

 

[JasonUD]

Hello there,
I'm a premed and am extremely interested in pursuing child psych. I like the DO philosophy and hope to apply to DO programs as well as MD programs in the future. I was wondering, however, if it is more difficult for a DO to gain entry into the pursuit of this specific profession? I understand that MD's and DO's are on equal footing in general, but the reality is that some programs favor MD's (like plastic surgery) and I wanted to know if child psych is less/more selective.

Thanks!

I just got out of a lecture at NYCOM from a DO child psychiatrist who is a prof at my school and Stony Brook (MD).

 

[MedChic]

Oh I'm so excited to read all your posts! Thanks =)

 

[group_theory]

From the NRMP website (Match Date of Jan 11, 2006)

Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Fellowship
Active Position: 293
Position Filled: 246
Position Unfilled: 47


US Grad (US MD)
Active: 161
Matched: 150
Unmatched: 11

US Foreign (US IMG)
Active: 39
Matched: 39
Unmatched: 0

US Osteopathic (US DO)
Active: 12
Matched: 9
Unmatched: 3

Foreign (non-US/Canadian)
Active: 57
Matched: 48
Unmatched: 9

http://www.nrmp.org/fellow/match_name/child/stats.html

 

[gagolden]

for what its worth, my sister sees a child psych specialist. Hes a DO. From what my mom says, hes a dork. So it cant be that hard to get into

 

[Dartos Vader]

Currently, psych is WIDE open. I'm a DO with fairly average grades/scores/height/etc, and I got more interview offers than I could go to. Child psych is one of those things that over 50% of psych applicants say they want to go into, then once they actually get some experience a lot of people change their mind. That is probably why there is a gigantic shortage of child psychiatrists. On the interview trail there were a LOT of people saying they planned on going into child psych. As of this point I'm tentatively planning on doing a child fellowship. We'll have to see though.

 

[McDoctor]

Hello there,
I'm a premed and am extremely interested in pursuing child psych. I like the DO philosophy and hope to apply to DO programs as well as MD programs in the future. I was wondering, however, if it is more difficult for a DO to gain entry into the pursuit of this specific profession? I understand that MD's and DO's are on equal footing in general, but the reality is that some programs favor MD's (like plastic surgery) and I wanted to know if child psych is less/more selective.

Thanks!

Given the choice between MD and DO for child psych, you should go MD. I only say this because some states still have seperate licensing boards for DO's, and those states generally will not license a DO unless he or she has completed an AOA approved internship. Given the lack of AOA approved psych residencies, I'd go MD. To me, liking the DO philosopy is not enough to have to put up with the red tape that goes into getting licensed in certain states (PA and WV to name two) without having done an AOA internship.

 

[klapmasta]

I think if you want to do child psych, just make sure you go to a program with that fellowship. On the interview trail, I was told several times that if you are already in house, they'll keep you for the fellowship, unless you're a total zero. As far as DO's in psych, I really don't think most programs care. I interviewed at some strong midwestern programs (Mayo, Wash U, Minnesota, Iowa), and they all had several DO's, and often were referred to as the best residents. I don't know if I'm going to do kids (that sounded bad), but I made sure to pick a program with the option.

 

[jay dub]

It all depends on whether you have your heart set on a specific program that happens to not be DO-friendly. Personally, when I was interviewing for residency I thought that was great way to self-select programs that were only going to be DO-friendly. If they didn't want to interview me because I'm a DO, I CERTAINLY would not want to try to work in that environment. For what it's worth, I'm a DO and I'm starting my child & adolescent psych training in July. I had NO problems (I am continuing training at the same hospital where I did my adult psych residency).

As far as worrying about the red tape of certain states... when last I checked (keep in mind this was several years ago) there was maybe only 1 C&A psych program in the AOA, and even that was doubtful. There will be red tape in getting licensed in any state and there are only 5 (unless something has changed??) that "require" an AOA intern year. And even in these states there are loopholes and appeals, etc., etc. I don't know if I'd necessarily use this as the sole reason to limit applications to only MD schools. I also applied to both, but I fit better at the DO school where I matriculated. Anyway, good luck!!

 

[MedChic]

Thank you all.
I believe I will apply to both to keep all doors open, but it's good to know I have a shot at Child psych. I guess it all lies in starting early and researching my options.

I am a kind of ignorant to the difference of AMA vs. AOA... is this just the difference between completing an allopathic vs. an osteo residency? If so, I know AOA limits where I can practice and the AMA license would give more leeway...this is the only difference correct?

Does anyone know anything about what NY is like in regards to this?

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Thank you all.
I believe I will apply to both to keep all doors open, but it's good to know I have a shot at Child psych. I guess it all lies in starting early and researching my options.

I am a kind of ignorant to the difference of AMA vs. AOA... is this just the difference between completing an allopathic vs. an osteo residency? If so, I know AOA limits where I can practice and the AMA license would give more leeway...this is the only difference correct?

Does anyone know anything about what NY is like in regards to this?

Alright, lets get the facts straight and I'm referring to "McDoctor's" post specifically.

If you go to a DO school, and would like to eventually practice in these 5 states (Florida, West Virginia, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania) the AOA ("American Osteopathic Assocation"....not the AOA that MD's refer to which is there honor society "Alpha Omega Alpha") requires that a DO complete an AOA-approved INTERNSHIP. Depending on what region of the country you end up for med school, you may actually find that the DO internship is better/more convenient to do than traveling elsewhere just to do an ACGME-accredited (ACGME=MD, fyi) internship.

Now let's say (for whatever reason) the ACGME-accredited internship is actually better/more convenient, THEN you can ask the AOA to accept your ACGME-accredited internship to fulfill their requirement to practice in those 5 states that I mentioned above. This AOA rule (or "loop-hole") is called Resolution-42.

Please be aware that MANY DO's do ACGME-accredited internships and then apply for acceptance of their internship through Resolution-42. It's commonly done and for the most part, fairly easy to get the waiver/acceptance (i.e. almost everyone gets approved). It's really quite simple so don't let MISINFORMATION sway you from making such an important decision in your life.

I'm no expert on Psychiatry but from being on SDN for years and in med school, I can tell you that you will face VERY little bias (and mostly like none!) if you decided that Psychiatry is your passion. Psychiatry programs don't really care if you're an MD or a DO. Talk to Psychiatry program directors and they will confirm this fact.

To improve your chances of matching at your #1 choice Psychiatry program, do the obvious (and this applies to anyone, MD or DO):

1) Study hard and try to do as well as possible in med school.
2) Take Step 1 very seriously. A "good" score (and that's open to interpretation) will get you that many more interviews and will make your life easier. At least try to meet/beat the national average (USMLE=217, COMLEX=500)
3) Do electives in Psychiatry at the programs you may be interested in and put in 110% when you're there that month. I can't even begin to tell you how IMPORTANT this is!
4) If you want top programs, then a hint of research will probably help.
5) Personality (no pun intended.) is very important in a field like Psychiatry. There's not much you can do about #5 at this point but I thought I'd put it out there for what it's worth!

G'luck in your decision, MD or DO.

 

[bellamae]

Hi,

I am a newly 4th yr DO student, and am trying to figure out where to spend my limited # of electives for visiting rotations. My eventual goal is Child Psych fellowship; so I am inquiring about the programs in Chicago that offer that fellowship...

Do you guys how DO-friendly/competitive the following programs are? Thanks so much in advance!

Northwestern
Rush
U of Chicago
U of I @ Chicago

Thanks for all your feedback...

And anyone knows the same info about NY programs w/ the child fellowship, that would be awesome too!

Thanks!

 

[McDoctor]

Alright, lets get the facts straight and I'm referring to "McDoctor's" post specifically.

If you go to a DO school, and would like to eventually practice in these 5 states (Florida, West Virginia, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania) the AOA ("American Osteopathic Assocation"....not the AOA that MD's refer to which is there honor society "Alpha Omega Alpha") requires that a DO complete an AOA-approved INTERNSHIP. Depending on what region of the country you end up for med school, you may actually find that the DO internship is better/more convenient to do than traveling elsewhere just to do an ACGME-accredited (ACGME=MD, fyi) internship.

Now let's say (for whatever reason) the ACGME-accredited internship is actually better/more convenient, THEN you can ask the AOA to accept your ACGME-accredited internship to fulfill their requirement to practice in those 5 states that I mentioned above. This AOA rule (or "loop-hole") is called Resolution-42.

Please be aware that MANY DO's do ACGME-accredited internships and then apply for acceptance of their internship through Resolution-42. It's commonly done and for the most part, fairly easy to get the waiver/acceptance (i.e. almost everyone gets approved). It's really quite simple so don't let MISINFORMATION sway you from making such an important decision in your life.

I'm no expert on Psychiatry but from being on SDN for years and in med school, I can tell you that you will face VERY little bias (and mostly like none!) if you decided that Psychiatry is your passion. Psychiatry programs don't really care if you're an MD or a DO. Talk to Psychiatry program directors and they will confirm this fact.

To improve your chances of matching at your #1 choice Psychiatry program, do the obvious (and this applies to anyone, MD or DO):

1) Study hard and try to do as well as possible in med school.
2) Take Step 1 very seriously. A "good" score (and that's open to interpretation) will get you that many more interviews and will make your life easier. At least try to meet/beat the national average (USMLE=217, COMLEX=500)
3) Do electives in Psychiatry at the programs you may be interested in and put in 110% when you're there that month. I can't even begin to tell you how IMPORTANT this is!
4) If you want top programs, then a hint of research will probably help.
5) Personality (no pun intended.) is very important in a field like Psychiatry. There's not much you can do about #5 at this point but I thought I'd put it out there for what it's worth!

G'luck in your decision, MD or DO.

Just wondering, where's the "MISINFORMATION" in my post? I said if the OP had the luxury of choosing MD or DO, he/she should go MD. Why go through resolution 42 if you don't have to? Why learn OMT if you are absolutely convinced you want child psychiatry?

In Pennsylvania, I had to pass an OMT practical exam before I could obtain licensure. Other states may have similar hurdles to jump through if there is a seperate board of osteopathic medicine, I don't really know. This is not a big deal for me because I'm in FP, but I would have been incredibly frustrated with having to pay to take an exam to prove my competency in OMT if I wanted to practice child psychiatry.

If I where the OP, I would apply to both and go DO only if I didn't get into any MD schools. There simply aren't a whole lot of osteopathic psychiatry programs. This is reasonable advice.

When you get the chance, enlighten me about which facts I don't have straight. (Beyond just the knee-jerk indignation of someone suggesting MD may be a better route for certain specialties on this forum).

BTW, I think the OMT practical may be disappearing in PA, replaced by a generalized physical exam practical. I don't know what MD licensure entails in my state. there are seperate allopathic and osteopathic boards of medicine. I only mention the OMT practical as an example of red tape osteopathic BS that applicants who want to practice psychiatry may prefer to sidestep.

 

[McDoctor]

Obviously, you weigh each school on their own merits when you interview. Pick the best fit for you academically and geographically. But all other things being equal, MD is a smoother path to child psych than DO.

 

[group_theory]

In Pennsylvania, I had to pass an OMT practical exam before I could obtain licensure. Other states may have similar hurdles to jump through if there is a seperate board of osteopathic medicine, I don't really know. This is not a big deal for me because I'm in FP, but I would have been incredibly frustrated with having to pay to take an exam to prove my competency in OMT if I wanted to practice child psychiatry.



BTW, I think the OMT practical may be disappearing in PA, replaced by a generalized physical exam practical. I don't know what MD licensure entails in my state. there are seperate allopathic and osteopathic boards of medicine. I only mention the OMT practical as an example of red tape osteopathic BS that applicants who want to practice psychiatry may prefer to sidestep.

Correct ... Passing the COMLEX Level 2 PE/Clinical Skill Exam will exempt you from having to take the OMT Exam as required by the State Board of Osteopathic Medicine.

Questions concerning specifics in regards to the licensure of ostepathic physicians in Pennsylvania should be addressed to [email protected] or (717) 783-4858