Wow I would've thought we needed a higher score as DOs. 230+ seems achievable.
Wait until you start step 1 studying before you say its easy
Probably not. Most programs I have contacted require step 1 and step 2 for matching. Some even require both just for an interview.
I thought I was pretty careful with my word choice when saying achievable. Easy was never said.
Most don't bother going ACGME, since most of the AOA training programs are decent. Some of the AOA programs are apprenticeship-like and I would be wary of those programs, but in general it is MUCH safer to go AOA.
I won't be applying for residency until 2017 since I'm just starting. Won't any AOA program people go into at that time technically be ACGME by the time they complete the residency? Since that would be like 2022/2023?
In theory yes, in practicality who knows. No one knows what is going to happen to the smaller programs, but it seems unlikely that in 3-4 years small AOA programs, 1 hour from a major metropolitan area, are somehow going to increase in work load and pathology. Those programs may get better, may close; but I don't think the bottom of the barrel AOA will become the equivalent of the bottom ACGME programs.
Even if I do a 3 year program for residency I shouldn't finish until 2021. Doesn't the merger state that all AOA programs must be approved by July 2020?
That sounds like the way to go if ACGME is unrealistic. Can anyone she some light on what programs these might be?
44 and you said it is doable! Seriously... even if we assume only there were 200 DO applicants (a conservative estimate), 44 matched would be a freaking low outcome... ACGME general surgery is not competitive for a MD applicant with average step1...
Poorly phrased... I meant that AMG (MD) with an average step1 (225+) might have no problem matching into gen surg...
I don't know how it is among all DO grads but I know my school sends more people into ACGME residencies than it does AOA. Of course this is a generalization not just GS, but still. So it's not unreasonable to assume that half of the independent applicants are DO. But even if only 100 applied, that's still less than half of them land a spot. Scary business. I'm still pretty unfamiliar with the match process but why does applying to ACGME programs keep you from applying AOA? Timeline?
I am not sure why you are making that AOA comparison... My point was that ACGME Gen Surg programs should not be out of reach for an average DO student... GAS which probably has a higher step1 is not out reach for a middle of the road DO student; thus, I don't understand why Gen Surg is more competitive for DO than GAS...
Thank you for educating me on this! How do you think this process will be affected by the merger come 3 years from now when I'm applying to residency? If some of the AOA programs have received ACGME status, how would I apply to those programs?
I guess most ACGME PDs think that DO are good enough to put patients to sleep, but not good enough to cut them open..😛
You will know once you need to apply.
It would be nice from a conversation point of view, but how would that change where you go. If you got the grades and experiences, go ACGME. If you are border-line, go AOA and have a good shot at matching as numerous spots go unfilled every year.
Programs have been closed in the past. Given that the ACGME will be running things, I'm not sure if the rule of your GME funding moving with you will apply to closed programs. The AOA had basically no safeguards with regard to program closures, basically you just had to scramble to find a place that would take you at that juncture in your training. Until you've got it in writing, trust no one. AOA program directors obviously will say to the deans that everything will be fine- if they didn't they'd risk a serious drop in applications.
