Doubters of SDN

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I just looked at your WAMC..... I am confused.
@artist2022 offered you a valid opinion and did not attack you. She did not conclusively say your GPA is inflated and just said it may look inflated to some people. She did not say your DAT was insufficient she just pointed out it is below their average and just to add 4 more schools for worse case scenario. You thanked her for her response and then you write this? I am not sure what you expected
 
JSG218 said:
Happy 4th everyone!

I want to get a bad experience on SDN off my chest/I have to vent.

I put up my stats on the WAMC Dental Thread, and the only two individuals who responded to me doubted I would even get in this cycle. In particular, they claimed my DAT score of a 21 AA was not sufficient to get into any of the following programs: Harvard, UCLA, UCSF, and UPenn.

Yes, these are competitive schools, especially Harvard and UCLA (both reaches). Penn's average DAT score is a 22, and UCSF mentioned in a webinar this past April that they look for people with above a 20 AA. Not to be conceded, but I think my DAT scores are sufficient.

I would like to iterate that schools don't just care about the numbers, but they look for people who are well-rounded and have an interest in the field and a passion for improving the lives of others. I worked hard to gain dental experience, employment, leadership positions in extracurriculars, and even my own independent dental research project I conduct at a graduate school.

I also would like to stand up for my university. One of the individuals who responded to my inquiry said my 3.9 GPA was inflated compared to my DAT score. Only about 10% or so of test takers can score a 21 AA, and to score higher is statistically unlikely (sorry I was unable to score a 25 AA, which few of thousands can do). Moreover, I have worked extremely hard in college to maintain my grades, and I feel that my classes have prepared me sufficiently for the DAT and beyond. I never questioned the quality and integrity of my school's natural science program and the wonderful faculty I have the privilege of interacting with.

So, if anyone else feels hated on, don't let other people discourage you. Initially, I felt very insecure/bad about myself. The way these individuals addressed my inquiry, whether intentional or not (more likely unintentional), they made me feel that I wasn't competent enough to even become a dentist.

However, I realized that it doesn't matter if they are "Moderators" or have "2+ Years Experience," they are NOT the adcom and have no bearing our your future. I'm sure this point has been made before, but I would like to reinforce it.

Thank you.
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wow, just wow

no one "doubted you would get in this cycle"
artist and I were pointing out that 4 of your programs are extremely competitive, especially for OOS students

no one denied that "
schools don't just care about the numbers, but they look for people who are well-rounded and have an interest in the field and a passion for improving the lives of others" in your thread​

artist did not say that your GPA was inflated, nor did she question the quality and integrity of your school, read what she said closely

no one is hating on you, nor is your being Jewish going to hurt your application
you have an excellent application, but you need to take your own advice and listen carefully to what people are saying
or don't, because everything on the internet is NOT true
you said yourself in sept 2018 that 18 is a good score, yet in july 2019, you said
*Should I worry about my QR and RC scores? ​

Advice on my DAT scores and how to move forward

Hello all, I recently took my DAT this month and was heavily wondering what I should do with my scores. On my DAT I got PAT 19 RC 18 QR 18 Bio 18 Chem 24 Orgo 29 TS 21 AA 21 Those 18’s scare me a little and I’m wondering if it may do me a lot of harm when applying to schools. My GPA on...
forums.studentdoctor.net
​
and then you were told in nov 2018 that your scores were more than adequate
forums.studentdoctor.net

Is my DAT score high enough for top schools?

Hello, all! Just a quick question that I always find myself pondering: are my DAT scores good enough to get into a competitive dental school? I plan on applying next cycle, so I’m kinda down to the wire. Here are my numbers: GPA (science and non-science are roughly the same): 3.8-3.9 DAT...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net

you are likely to get a few interviews from your list as long as your LOR and PS are better than decent

then it is up to you to impress at the interview

artist and I are recommending that you add a few more schools to ensure you have a bunch of interviews and perhaps more than a few acceptances​

good luck to you this cycle

and while I can guarantee that the vast, vast majority of posters are not adcoms, I think you'd be surprised to know that adcoms read these forums and there are possibly some people posting that have more bearing on your future than you think...
 
Yeah I took a look at your WAMC thread too and my interpretation of it was just that your list is comprised mainly of pretty competitive schools. Nothing wrong with that, but their point was that it’d be beneficial to add a couple less competitive schools in the event that you don’t get into any of the ones already on your list.

The application cycle is very unpredictable after all
 
You have to realize that the only thing people can legitimately use to give advice on this subject is statistics. You're talking about schools and their average DAT scores and it sounds like that's the basis of the advice you were getting.

That means that all they're really telling you is that you're roughly in the bottom ~50% score range of what those schools appear to prefer, and it seems the main advice over there is that you should apply to a few more schools, which is probably true. Remember that there are many more applicants with lower scores than higher scores. This means that if you would be in the bottom half of the accepted for any particular school based on your stats, you're competing against more people than someone with a 25 is competing against.

Any advice on chances that isn't based on the available statistics isn't actually advice, and it looks like you seem to think that the stats-based advice other respected posters gave you isn't good advice...?

Nobody was discouraging you, just saying that since you're applying to schools where you'd be in their bottom ~50%, maybe you should add more schools to minimize your chance of missing out on an acceptance.
 
Last edited:
I just read your WAMC and the advice seemed pretty solid. You should objectively add more schools. Also, contact Michigan to be sure you're disqualified from getting in there. They're likely to be your cheapest option.
 
Neither mac nor I said you wouldn't get in, nor did we say your 21 was insufficient. We simply said that you applied to only 8 schools, half of which are extremely competitive to get into, and that it would be better to add more schools. We have nothing against you, and are not trying to bring you down - simply, we were trying to help you with what your chances were at the schools you applied to with your stats, which was the purpose of your thread. Schools do look for well-rounded applicants, and that you are, but the biggest thing to us was the types of schools you applied to. A 3.9 is high, well done, but schools don't know just how easy/hard it was to get As at schools and thus they use the DAT as an equalizer. You worked hard to be in the position you are today, and you should be proud of that. But when you come on a forum to ask for advice on your chances at competitive schools, people are only trying to give you realistic input. Dental school is competitive to get into, and it gets competitive every year.

My being a moderator has no effect on the advice I give. I'd give the same advice even if I wasn't one, because I've seen how the past few cycles have gone at the schools on your list. I agree I'm not an adcom member, but I've been on these forums almost every single day for the past 2 years to have a pretty solid idea of how admissions works.

Best of luck and I hope you get into a school of your choice! 🙂
 
VolDental said:
Haven’t read any of the above responses - but it’s the internet. 90% of the people on here have no clue what they are talking about most of the time.

Grain of salt and move on.
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so you're saying that a prince from Kenya is not giving me FOURTY MILLION DOLLERS CASH US?
I already gave him my social security number and bank account number/password
 
JDent99 said:
Glad you haven't given up!
Click to expand...
lol
he hasn't conceded because he's not conceited?

no one is saying your DAT scores are insufficient, man

someone that can attain stats/ECs like the OP should have more self-confidence...
 
JSG218 said:
I would like to iterate that schools don't just care about the numbers, but they look for people who are well-rounded and have an interest in the field and a passion for improving the lives of others. I worked hard to gain dental experience, employment, leadership positions in extracurriculars, and even my own independent dental research project I conduct at a graduate school.
Click to expand...

Oh, this. I wish this were true. I see this so often and it's a great thing to tell yourself, but it just isn't true. This is coming from someone that is a re-applicant who applied to 21 schools the second time around, received one interview, and was thankfully (and probably luckily) accepted (to a public university). The numbers are what moves an application to be looked at more closely. There is software that weeds out those with 'undesirable' numbers. If I were a betting man, I'd say that very few schools actually look at the entire application without first looking at the numbers. That being said, your numbers are fine. If you're fortunate enough to get interviews while casting a pretty small net, go kill those interviews and you'll see the acceptances come.

Aside: why/how do people with such high GPAs and/or DAT scores struggle with spelling?!
 
Enjoy this fresh copypasta I wrote!

I want to get a bad experience on SDN off my chest/I have to vent.

I put up my stats on the WAMC Dental Thread, and the only two individuals who responded to me doubted I would even get in this cycle. In particular, they claimed my DAT score of a 21 AA was not sufficient to get into any of the following programs: Harvard, UCLA, UCSF, and UPenn.

Yes, these are competitive schools, especially Harvard and UCLA (both reaches). Penn's average DAT score is a 22, and UCSF mentioned in a webinar this past April that they look for people with above a 20 AA. Not to be conceded, but I think my DAT scores are sufficient.

I would like to iterate that schools don't just care about the numbers, but they look for people who are well-rounded and have an interest in the field and a passion for improving the lives of others. I worked hard to gain dental experience, employment, leadership positions in extracurriculars, and even my own independent dental research project I conduct at a graduate school.

I also would like to stand up for my university. One of the individuals who responded to my inquiry said my 3.9 GPA was inflated compared to my DAT score. Only about 10% or so of test takers can score a 21 AA, and to score higher is statistically unlikely (sorry I was unable to score a 25 AA, which few of thousands can do). Moreover, I have worked extremely hard in college to maintain my grades, and I feel that my classes have prepared me sufficiently for the DAT and beyond. I never questioned the quality and integrity of my school's natural science program and the wonderful faculty I have the privilege of interacting with.

So, if anyone else feels hated on, don't let other people discourage you. Initially, I felt very insecure/bad about myself. The way these individuals addressed my inquiry, whether intentional or not (more likely unintentional), they made me feel that I wasn't competent enough to even become a dentist.

However, I realized that it doesn't matter if they are "Moderators" or have "2+ Years Experience," they are NOT the adcom and have no bearing our your future. I'm sure this point has been made before, but I would like to reinforce it.

Thank you.
 
JSG218. Your DAT score is below average for 6/8 of the schools you applied to. You are an OOS student for every public school you applied to. You didn't apply to your state school. What are you thinking? That your ECs alone will be your golden ticket to eight acceptances?
 
People come onto SDN for advice but it seems like you just wanted people to fall head over heels for you and your situation. If you are not mature enough to handle other's advice/opinion why are you on the forum? Given your stats what they say have truth to it. You feel attacked by it so you decide to post something up for people to come to your aid? You would not feel too frustrated enough to vent and call people out if you did not believe what they stated had a bit truth. There are success stories and I am sure people are happy to hear them but do you think that most people with 3.9 GPA score 21 on the DAT? It's just looking at the statistics. We are not adcom, but we have have resources out there that is the next best thing to help each other out. Gratz though.

21 DAT with a 3.4 - 3.5 gpa, years of assisting, shadowing, worked at a dental supply company, was a dental technician, secretary for pre-dent club, worked as a teacher... did research with 2 professor and contributed to 1 publication and still had a hard to getting into D. school and the one I did get accepted to is a private one but good luck with the cycle. I hope to hear back from you.
 
runescape2017 said:
yo what r ur guys thoughts on that new stranger things season???
Click to expand...

Just started the first two episodes. Nothing has changed. The longer the hair and more lipstick you wear as a man, the more women try to flirt with you.
 
This is the first time in a long while I click on a post on sdn and man, I don’t miss this at all. Some people on here need to read what they wrote at least once before sending! First of all, you asked and people answered, no one on here is credible enough to tell you your chances, so I’m not sure what all this emotional drama is about. And I find it beyond childish to sit here and write paragraphs about an incidence like this. People were trying to help and you come up with this! What are you gonna do when a faculty or a patient yell at you for being silly? Come on here and write paragraphs! Please take my advice and before we write something on here again, let’s grow up and delete it and move on!
 
270410

just here for the comments 🙂
 
Everyone is right.

I express my greatest apologies for posting this thread.

It is evident that I wasn’t thinking too clearly. As many of you can probably can relate, I put a lot of pressure on myself to do well. That is no excuse for my actions, and I also would like to express my appreciation for everyone’s advice on dental school and beyond.

I admit that I am insecure about my scores, and I’ve actually been belittled by another pre-dental student who scored better than me. This individual also makes personal attacks against me, so I’ve just let things boil. Again, this does not excuse my post, which I have since deleted. I really feel bad, I didn’t mean to devalue anyone’s perspective or make anyone feel bad. If I did, I am greatly sorry, and all I ask is for forgiveness.

Everyone has every right to mock me, “troll” me, and ridicule my actions for they were unprofessional and childish. I’m not bleeding for sympathy or looking for excuses, but I’ve also been dealing a lot of adversities in my personal life. I don’t mean to take it out on others. I would never intentionally hurt someone’s feelings.

I have found it very rewarding to help others on this site, and I am upset with myself for attacking those very same people who have helped me. I am ashamed and disappointed with myself for these actions.

All I can do from now is move on, and do my best to be a better future dentist and a better person. It’s not really in my nature to “explode,” it’s easier to do it anonymously online. It’s kind of odd for me though, especially because I don’t really care for technology.

Anyway, thank you so much to everyone on SDN for all you do! Keep it up!

Also, good luck to others applying this cycle! For dental students, keep working hard!
 
JSG218 said:
Everyone is right.

I express my greatest apologies for posting this thread.

It is evident that I wasn’t thinking too clearly. As many of you can probably can relate, I put a lot of pressure on myself to do well. That is no excuse for my actions, and I also would like to express my appreciation for everyone’s advice on dental school and beyond.

I admit that I am insecure about my scores, and I’ve actually been belittled by another pre-dental student who scored better than me. This individual also makes personal attacks against me, so I’ve just let things boil. Again, this does not excuse my post, which I have since deleted. I really feel bad, I didn’t mean to devalue anyone’s perspective or make anyone feel bad. If I did, I am greatly sorry, and all I ask is for forgiveness.

Everyone has every right to mock me, “troll” me, and ridicule my actions for they were unprofessional and childish. I’m not bleeding for sympathy or looking for excuses, but I’ve also been dealing a lot of adversities in my personal life. I don’t mean to take it out on others. I would never intentionally hurt someone’s feelings.

I have found it very rewarding to help others on this site, and I am upset with myself for attacking those very same people who have helped me. I am ashamed and disappointed with myself for these actions.

All I can do from now is move on, and do my best to be a better future dentist and a better person. It’s not really in my nature to “explode,” it’s easier to do it anonymously online. It’s kind of odd for me though, especially because I don’t really care for technology.

Anyway, thank you so much to everyone on SDN for all you do! Keep it up!

Also, good luck to others applying this cycle! For dental students, keep working hard!
Click to expand...

I appreciate your apology
glad you finally realized how you sounded, and changed your tune after visiting this thread all day
deleting your post to cover your tracks is kinda iffy in my mind, but no matter since I quoted you anyways...
you need to always remember this post all throughout your professional career and learn and grow from it
good luck on your application cycle
please keep us updated on how it is going
 
I just deleted it to try to forget about what I wrote (for myself), but the moral behind this experience will be with me forever.

Although I am interested in dentistry, I don’t like the high-stakes competition. It’s been eating away at me, clearly. I’m thinking about switching career paths and going into a trade (likely plumbing). It’s something I have experience with, and I have enjoyed it. Plus, I get to work with my hands!

I’ve asked the admin of SDN to delete this account. I’ll decide later on what to do with my dental school prospects if I have any.

Best of luck to everyone with their future endeavors in health care!

Signing off now.
 
JSG218 said:
I just deleted it to try to forget about what I wrote (for myself), but the moral behind this experience will be with me forever.

Although I am interested in dentistry, I don’t like the high-stakes competition. It’s been eating away at me, clearly. I’m thinking about switching career paths and going into a trade (likely plumbing). It’s something I have experience with, and I have enjoyed it. Plus, I get to work with my hands!

I’ve asked the admin of SDN to delete this account. I’ll decide later on what to do with my dental school prospects if I have any.

Best of luck to everyone with their future endeavors in health care!

Signing off now.
Click to expand...
Is this real life? Did someone just quit his/her pursuit of dentistry because of SDN?
 
Dont give up. Fook all of them. Dont apologized for how you feel. Prove them all wrong by getting into one of those schools.
 
If I followed most of the advice on SDN, I would be crying on the edge of a cliff.

Some people here are very opinionated or mean and some of them like to brag a lot.

Do not let people sway you from following your dreams, you can do it!
 
BullGator1004 said:
Is this real life? Did someone just quit his/her pursuit of dentistry because of SDN?
Click to expand...

You must realize that some people are sensitive. Many students changed their career path because of mean or doubting advisors.
I attended a class once, it was a class where we could share our stories of racism, microaggression, and other cultural biased behaviors.
So many students wanted to follow one path in their life and their advisors swayed them from doing that just because they were not suitable to be advisors in the first place.
 
JSG218 said:
I just deleted it to try to forget about what I wrote (for myself), but the moral behind this experience will be with me forever.

Although I am interested in dentistry, I don’t like the high-stakes competition. It’s been eating away at me, clearly. I’m thinking about switching career paths and going into a trade (likely plumbing). It’s something I have experience with, and I have enjoyed it. Plus, I get to work with my hands!

I’ve asked the admin of SDN to delete this account. I’ll decide later on what to do with my dental school prospects if I have any.

Best of luck to everyone with their future endeavors in health care!

Signing off now.
Click to expand...
OP, I believe you can get into dental school. You are intelligent and you have to believe that - your scores are excellent!! I really would take the opinion of those on SDN very lightly - after all, we are all just students giving advice to other students (for the most part). Don't ever allow anyone to convince you that you are not good enough to pursue your dream career. Dental school will be really difficult, and I am sure there will be many times where all of us will begin to doubt ourselves, but you absolutely have to stay strong. I believe in you and I wish you the best outcome this cycle!
 
DDS2be123 said:
OP, I believe you can get into dental school. You are intelligent and you have to believe that - your scores are excellent!! I really would take the opinion of those on SDN very lightly - after all, we are all just students giving advice to other students (for the most part). Don't ever allow anyone to convince you that you are not good enough to pursue your dream career. Dental school will be really difficult, and I am sure there will be many times where all of us will begin to doubt ourselves, but you absolutely have to stay strong. I believe in you and I wish you the best outcome this cycle!
Click to expand...
But if you look at the original WAMC thread, no one said that OP couldn't get into dental school... The people that did respond said to apply to more schools because the schools listed are all extremely competitive. Im pretty sure the advice given in the WAMC thread stems from the fact that applying to dental schools is hit or miss, not because they are doubting OP's ability.
 
You guys are all still talking like people were actually saying the same things OP said that people were saying that they clearly... weren’t actually saying. Not a single person ever said OP’s scores were bad or even low. Only that they were lowER than most accepted scores at the specific schools OP listed.

There’s still two separate conversations happening in this thread, one based on reality, and one completely not based on reality. Obviously OP’s stats are good, they’re all higher than the 90th percentile of applicants! The problem is that they’re maybe, just MAYBE not quite good enough to get into the schools OP intended to apply to.

Optimism and encouragement are fine as long as they align with reality and probability, if they don’t align then optimism is more likely to result in failure and disappointment and a lack of understanding of why the failure occurred and how to avoid it in subsequent attempts.
 
BullGator1004 said:
Is this real life? Did someone just quit his/her pursuit of dentistry because of SDN?
Click to expand...

What is real life is how unbelievable the interpretations of the original advice that OP asked for. The original advice provided by Artist and another poster were helpful, to the point and not at all demeaning. Isn't that the purpose of SDN? Or would everyone like all their questions to be sugar-coated. Hoor-ray! Kumbaya. Do anything for a dream?

Getting into Dental school is difficult. It is also a very expensive endeavor. You can call it a dream, but eventually .... your dream will become a profession which ultimately becomes a job. All of this comes with future financial debt service. That is real life.

OP. Stick to your objective. Take SDN's advice. Apply to a few extra schools as back ups. And good luck.
 
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