Doubts about Med school and considering Vet school - Need some advice

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ap594

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Hello all,

So, I sat down with my independent study professor, who I've been working with for over a semester now, in an effort to talk through some of my career interests. I am a third year Zoology major at a decent midwest state school and I have had the goal of medical school since I was a senior in high school. For about the past year, especially after having switched to my Zoology major, I have had the inclination that veterinary medicine might be more suitable to me than human med. But, I am just having a really tough time wrapping my head around the idea of significantly changing my professional goals, especially since everything that I've done up to this point has been towards becoming accepted to med school. I can already say, with almost complete certainty, that there are multiple aspects of human med (cellular/molecular research, long-lasting patient relationships) that I don't think I want to incorporate into my career. Additionally, I have developed a really strong interested in animal physiology and disease, and, if I had to choose, I think that I would rather have animal patients than human patients. Would I be doing myself a disservice to switch so abruptly especially in my third year? I am studying for the MCAT right now and I have good credentials for med school, but I think that I would be less likely to switch if I was way behind in respect to being competitive at good vet schools. What else should I be considering?

I'm pretty sure I sound like I'm in an academic mess, but I don't know where to go from here. I'm going to try and shadow a vet back home and compare human primary care to vet primary care, but I don't know what else to do to help me make this decision.

Thanks for the help.

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You might want to wander down to SDN pre-Vet Forum and get some perspectives on the pros and cons of VetMed, including expectations for animal-oriented ECs. I see from your backpost that you will have a very competitive application for med school. I don't imagine that the requirements for vet schools are vastly different, but check on that. As there are so few vet schools in North America, also check on chances of acceptance among those applying, and look at salary figures, too, if you haven't. From what I understand, the debt your education will incur will be similiar to that of med schools, but it may take way longer to pay it back on the lower expected salary. On the flip side, your malpractice concerns will be much lower in animal medicine (though not nonexistant). And I'm sure you'd see longitudinal care over your patients' lifetimes as you would for humans.

In the end, you need to go where your heart is, and make yourself happy.
 
Hello all,

So, I sat down with my independent study professor, who I've been working with for over a semester now, in an effort to talk through some of my career interests. I am a third year Zoology major at a decent midwest state school and I have had the goal of medical school since I was a senior in high school. For about the past year, especially after having switched to my Zoology major, I have had the inclination that veterinary medicine might be more suitable to me than human med. But, I am just having a really tough time wrapping my head around the idea of significantly changing my professional goals, especially since everything that I've done up to this point has been towards becoming accepted to med school. I can already say, with almost complete certainty, that there are multiple aspects of human med (cellular/molecular research, long-lasting patient relationships) that I don't think I want to incorporate into my career. Additionally, I have developed a really strong interested in animal physiology and disease, and, if I had to choose, I think that I would rather have animal patients than human patients. Would I be doing myself a disservice to switch so abruptly especially in my third year? I am studying for the MCAT right now and I have good credentials for med school, but I think that I would be less likely to switch if I was way behind in respect to being competitive at good vet schools. What else should I be considering?

I'm pretty sure I sound like I'm in an academic mess, but I don't know where to go from here. I'm going to try and shadow a vet back home and compare human primary care to vet primary care, but I don't know what else to do to help me make this decision.

Thanks for the help.

What can I say? This is your own decision to make, and if anyone gives you a clear and quick answer they are full of it.

I will say, though, that it is by NO MEANS too late for you to change your mind. Do what you'll be happiest and best satisfied with in the end.
 
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Hello all,

So, I sat down with my independent study professor, who I've been working with for over a semester now, in an effort to talk through some of my career interests. I am a third year Zoology major at a decent midwest state school and I have had the goal of medical school since I was a senior in high school. For about the past year, especially after having switched to my Zoology major, I have had the inclination that veterinary medicine might be more suitable to me than human med. But, I am just having a really tough time wrapping my head around the idea of significantly changing my professional goals, especially since everything that I've done up to this point has been towards becoming accepted to med school. I can already say, with almost complete certainty, that there are multiple aspects of human med (cellular/molecular research, long-lasting patient relationships) that I don't think I want to incorporate into my career. Additionally, I have developed a really strong interested in animal physiology and disease, and, if I had to choose, I think that I would rather have animal patients than human patients. Would I be doing myself a disservice to switch so abruptly especially in my third year? I am studying for the MCAT right now and I have good credentials for med school, but I think that I would be less likely to switch if I was way behind in respect to being competitive at good vet schools. What else should I be considering?

I'm pretty sure I sound like I'm in an academic mess, but I don't know where to go from here. I'm going to try and shadow a vet back home and compare human primary care to vet primary care, but I don't know what else to do to help me make this decision.

Thanks for the help.

Which would you prefer to have as a patient, a 4-legged animal or a 2-legged animal?
 
Maybe I can help. My roommate last year was pre-vet and applying at the same time that I was gearing up to apply to med school. From her I learned that it is much much harder to get into vet school then med school, simply from the sheer amount of people applying and the lack of schools. She didn't get into any schools last year but has had a MUCH MUCH different experience this year. I don't know a ton about vet school admissions but she told me that the average applicant has about 3500 ( i believe, not 100% positive) hours of animal experience. She said the reason why its so many is because people start volunteering or working with animals in high school when they decide they want this path. She got herself a job in a vet office doing some tech work and receptionist work and was able to get tons of experience in addition to research with birds. Anyways, what I'm saying is you're going to need a lot of experience if you end up going to vet school. However, with a good gpa and gre score you should be good to go. From your post, it sounds like you had a change of heart. Do what makes you happy, even if it takes longer because it is definitely worth it in the long run. Good luck! :luck:
 
Maybe I can help. My roommate last year was pre-vet and applying at the same time that I was gearing up to apply to med school. From her I learned that it is much much harder to get into vet school then med school, simply from the sheer amount of people applying and the lack of schools. She didn't get into any schools last year but has had a MUCH MUCH different experience this year. I don't know a ton about vet school admissions but she told me that the average applicant has about 3500 ( i believe, not 100% positive) hours of animal experience. She said the reason why its so many is because people start volunteering or working with animals in high school when they decide they want this path. She got herself a job in a vet office doing some tech work and receptionist work and was able to get tons of experience in addition to research with birds. Anyways, what I'm saying is you're going to need a lot of experience if you end up going to vet school. However, with a good gpa and gre score you should be good to go. From your post, it sounds like you had a change of heart. Do what makes you happy, even if it takes longer because it is definitely worth it in the long run. Good luck! :luck:

they dont have something like the MCAT (like medicine MCAT, pharmacy PCAT, vet VCAT :rolleyes:)? is gre the test for vet school.. if so the GRE is a joke...

but 3500 hours of animal experience sounds pretty brutal
 
they dont have something like the MCAT (like medicine MCAT, pharmacy PCAT, vet VCAT :rolleyes:)? is gre the test for vet school.. if so the GRE is a joke...

but 3500 hours of animal experience sounds pretty brutal

yup. just the gre. but its extremely difficult to get into vet school b/c there is only like a third of the number of med schools. She told me that most people consider 11 schools applying VERY broadly. She didn't get in last year but this year she's gotten interviews at most of her schools and an early acceptance.
 
Depending on what state you're from, getting into vet school can be exponentially harder. There's just not as many schools. Some schools want a lot of animal experience and some just care about numbers (some care too much about numbers actually).

I'm also a huge animal person and a Marine Bio concentration but I knew a long time ago that vet medicine was not for me. It's all a personal preference, but just ask yourself if going into veterinary medicine is just an alternative to human medicine. If you have a good answer, you might lean in that direction.
 
I had a fantastic dog, a female yellow lab, and an incredible cat, also a female. Quite intelligent, and complex personalities. I enjoyed interacting with them. I can understand why someone would want to be a vet.
 
Do vet school. If you do medicine, you will regret it. By then it will be too late.
 
The main difference between vet school and med school is that in vet school, many of your patients will try to bite you...




...and in med school, only some will.
 
Do vet school. If you do medicine, you will regret it. By then it will be too late.

Cleo, is that you?

miss-cleo.jpg
 
Hello all,

So, I sat down with my independent study professor, who I've been working with for over a semester now, in an effort to talk through some of my career interests. I am a third year Zoology major at a decent midwest state school and I have had the goal of medical school since I was a senior in high school. For about the past year, especially after having switched to my Zoology major, I have had the inclination that veterinary medicine might be more suitable to me than human med. But, I am just having a really tough time wrapping my head around the idea of significantly changing my professional goals, especially since everything that I've done up to this point has been towards becoming accepted to med school. I can already say, with almost complete certainty, that there are multiple aspects of human med (cellular/molecular research, long-lasting patient relationships) that I don't think I want to incorporate into my career. Additionally, I have developed a really strong interested in animal physiology and disease, and, if I had to choose, I think that I would rather have animal patients than human patients. Would I be doing myself a disservice to switch so abruptly especially in my third year? I am studying for the MCAT right now and I have good credentials for med school, but I think that I would be less likely to switch if I was way behind in respect to being competitive at good vet schools. What else should I be considering?

I'm pretty sure I sound like I'm in an academic mess, but I don't know where to go from here. I'm going to try and shadow a vet back home and compare human primary care to vet primary care, but I don't know what else to do to help me make this decision.

Thanks for the help.

There are 28 veterinary schools in the US. The costs of vet school are nearly identical to the costs of med school, but average salary for a vet is about $55,000-65,000 (depending on area of vet med and state) the first year out. If you specialize you might be able to get into the $100,000 range but that is after spending more money on a competitive internship and residency. As for applying for vet schools, your stats are great (4.0 GPA). You will need to take the GRE (there is no longer a VCAT). Another thing about vet med is that you will still deal with long-lasting client-patient relationships. Also, in vet med you have not only the animal patients but also the clients (human owners) to take care of. Also to consider when applying to vet school: animal experience (volunteering at shelters, anything when not working with a DVM/PhD that involves animals) vs. vet experience (direct work under a DVM/PhD). The research you have done can count as vet experience if done under a PhD/DVM/MD. Most vet schools expect both vet and animal experience. It is important to get both breadth and depth. Lots of hours and varied experience (i.e. research, zoo, equine, large animal and small animal). About 100-200 hours in each looks fairly good. Lots of applicants have much more than this and some have less. I have about 4000 hours vet experience in small animals and some pocket pets. And another 500 hours or so volunteering in shelters and at the zoo. I have no experience in the other areas (research, equine, large animal) but I have still gotten some interviews. So it is really about what you take from the experience and having 0 hours in one area is not necessarily a deal breaker. Also all of the volunteer work you have done looks great on vet school apps. They like to see community involvement and lots of EC’s. Overall, you are not too far behind. You should have gotten all of the pre-reqs through your zoology degree but double-check specific schools websites to be sure. Honestly, the best thing you could do would be to shadow a vet for a couple of weeks and still see if you are interested. Vet med has many opportunities to offer: public health, work with the CDC, research, zoo, equine, large animal, small animal, exotics and pocket pets. Whatever you do decide to do good luck!! You will do great no matter which one…just follow your heart!!
 
Well spoken, DVMDream - it's better left to the actual pre-vets.

Another thing I forgot to mention - a lof the vet schools have very very specific prereqs such as Animal Nutrition, Statistics, Calculus, etc... that could make it difficult to apply to certain schools.

Unlike med schools, almost every vet school has different prereqs on top of the Bio, Chem, OChem and Physics.
 
Sorry to be the short answer person that is "full of it" and cliche', but. . .

This is YOUR life. Do what YOU LOVE.

Who knows how long it will take; but you are young and have lots of time, even if you don't get up to 3,500 hours or whatever it is. If you are compelling, if have a good profile, and are really into and willing to relocate, you could still get in--maybe not with the first app, but that would only give you more time to get the hours--and perhaps also take some business courses. I say that b/c that is where I see vets making some bread--if they get savvy, get enough experience and capital, and are willing to get a partner maybe and start their own vet hospital. Sure there is overhead. It's a business; but in time it can be a very good business. It's not a Bill Gates kind of thing; but it can be a nice lifestyle--and people are more into their pets now then ever.

I read somewhere, and I honestly don't know if this is true or not--haven't checked it, but Americans spent just as much on gifts for their pets at Christmas as they did their children. And look at Dr.s Smith and Foster. Sure there has been some sad abandonment of dogs and cats to shelters due to the economy, and a bit of trend down in spending; but overall, it still looks promising in the future. Of course overall economy collapse and the abyssmal value of dollar and the state of unemployment is a concern now. But this WILL affect EVERY industry. . . and politically speaking, it is another discussion, though an imperative one.

But people have proven, not just in the US but in UK and France that people are willing to spend money on the pets, and if they have jobs that give them some decent standard of living--and sometimes, even when they don't, they are willing to put the dollars in for the pets. This is part of what has driven pet health insurance.

And there are so many areas where you can contribute--working against puppy mills for example--a huge problem for many reasons. Increasing awareness re: animal health. Do you know how many websites w/ Q & A there are re: pet health, behavioral therapies, breeding and genetic discussions, and even on freezing prize pet sperm before neuttering?

I think it is a great field, and one to be proud and passionate about if this is what is in your soul.

Cliche warning again: Life is too short. There are always problems in life. Do what you love. Do go into human medicine if your heart is leading elsewhere. It's a waste of your time, energy, money, and life.

I have been priviledged to have my pets go to some amazing and deeply caring vets. Some of them are cost conscience in their consultations and exams for the clients as well as for their own business. You have to watch for those that don't break costs down for you. I respect those that do. And I have found they are usually the most caring and are good at what they do. One vet my pets went to was originally from the Mid-west, moved here to the east--which is often quite a culture shock for many MWesterners for some reason. (Never figure out why the MW people can have trouble with living on the coasts--I love being near the ocean--but whahtever.) Anyway, she was so awesome and I would still be taking my dogs to her; however, the head of the practice turned out to be a duche over a $30.00 bill for which his office person missed charging me. Way after the fact he came back and demanded the $30.00 w/o specifying what it was for, and if you knew that I bred and the out-of-pocket I spent there, you would be alarmed. His office's mistake held against me after the thousands I spent there. He was arrogant and a total butt. So, when I found that my original vet came back into practice and was closer, I said, "See ya."

Learning Customer Service and knowing how to run a business well can be a big part of it; depending on if you work in that arena or for an institution dealing with large animals or whatever else.

Sorry I went on; but this is an area near and dear to my heart. Vets have to have compassion too--and should avoid just shoving the pentobarbitol in a small dogs, sensitive tiny veins and just getting on with it--as one vet did with my dog of 17 years. Totally rushed, clashless SOB she was in my opinion.

They need good people in this field. People live longer and are often happier with pets. Many people grieve very deeply after losing their pets.


I think you are wise and soundly contemplative to be thinking about this change. Some folks dig their heels in and force themselves into and through human medicine, and it is clear it's not their love. Everyone loses out on this IMHO.

And look, if you don't get in first time around, you get more time to work in the animal care field. As you move closer to those 3000 + hours, it will give you a good perspective as to whether this truly is a good choice for you.

(Sorry if there are numerous typos and such in this post. I took the rare OTC sleeping pill and it is getting to me big time.

I also aree with the suggestion to talk to the vet people here. But don't get put off by the level of difficulty in gaining entrance or anything else.

Best wishes for a happy educational experience and a wonderful career.
 
Wow! I thought the VCAT still existed. Listen to DVMDream, obviously. All I know is that vet school is statistically more selective than med school, but it's easier (grade-wise) if you have real experience. A childhood friend of mine was obsessed with wildlife and her own pets. In sixth grade, she started her own mission to protect our local wildlife...she went from door to door to make people aware of pollution (directly from our houses) that hurt the frogs, turtles, and fish in our small town. Our classmates teased her to no end, but she didn't really care. She cleaned cages at the local animal hospital from the time she was nine or ten (again, small town), but couldn't legally become a volunteer until she was 14. That was her life in high school. While other kids were out at dances and football games, smoking pot and getting in trouble, she spent her afternoons and weekends at the animal hospital.

Truthfully, she was never very smart. She struggled to be a "B" student in high school. She went to college and I think her overall GPA was in the low 3.0-3.3 range. But our local animal hospital just happens to have a national reputation in the veterinary world. She got into six schools, and is finishing her (optional) residency now.

You have all the right stats. You just need to present the picture that vet schools want. I think that even though it's more selective, the application is more personal. If you can explain why you want to be a vet, with your stats, you're in.

That doesn't address your original question as to what you SHOULD do. It sounds like you've already answered your own question. If you find it more interesting and you're oriented toward it academically and personally, that's what you should pursue. Just be honest and explain your story. You don't need to be a "born" vet like my friend--like medicine, whatever led you there is what matters. It sounds like you're far more interested in veterinary medicine than you are in human medicine. Go for it.

There are 28 veterinary schools in the US. The costs of vet school are nearly identical to the costs of med school, but average salary for a vet is about $55,000-65,000 (depending on area of vet med and state) the first year out. If you specialize you might be able to get into the $100,000 range but that is after spending more money on a competitive internship and residency. As for applying for vet schools, your stats are great (4.0 GPA). You will need to take the GRE (there is no longer a VCAT). Another thing about vet med is that you will still deal with long-lasting client-patient relationships. Also, in vet med you have not only the animal patients but also the clients (human owners) to take care of. Also to consider when applying to vet school: animal experience (volunteering at shelters, anything when not working with a DVM/PhD that involves animals) vs. vet experience (direct work under a DVM/PhD). The research you have done can count as vet experience if done under a PhD/DVM/MD. Most vet schools expect both vet and animal experience. It is important to get both breadth and depth. Lots of hours and varied experience (i.e. research, zoo, equine, large animal and small animal). About 100-200 hours in each looks fairly good. Lots of applicants have much more than this and some have less. I have about 4000 hours vet experience in small animals and some pocket pets. And another 500 hours or so volunteering in shelters and at the zoo. I have no experience in the other areas (research, equine, large animal) but I have still gotten some interviews. So it is really about what you take from the experience and having 0 hours in one area is not necessarily a deal breaker. Also all of the volunteer work you have done looks great on vet school apps. They like to see community involvement and lots of EC’s. Overall, you are not too far behind. You should have gotten all of the pre-reqs through your zoology degree but double-check specific schools websites to be sure. Honestly, the best thing you could do would be to shadow a vet for a couple of weeks and still see if you are interested. Vet med has many opportunities to offer: public health, work with the CDC, research, zoo, equine, large animal, small animal, exotics and pocket pets. Whatever you do decide to do good luck!! You will do great no matter which one…just follow your heart!!
 
it does indeed seem you should go for vet school, BUT, you don't want to have long lasting patient relationships, you could always go emergency medicine with your md...just a thought...something to consider...
 
DVMDream summed up a lot of things quite nicely, but I would like to add that the VMCAS are due early Oct. (this year it was the 2nd), meaning if you would like to apply on time, you will need to get experience this summer. If you worked full time as an assistant, you might be able to pull off 1000 hrs. If you could split that between two places (such as between a small animal vet and a large animal vet, or exotics, widlife etc...) it could def. be possible to apply this year and keep you on time. 1000 hrs is on the lower end, but def. not unheard of. If you don't mind maybe being a year late, you would have time to really explore different fields and not have to work your bum off. Then, you could work your senior year/summer and apply the following year. Vet schools actually like to take older people- the avg age depends on the school, but is usually in the 25-27 range- so being a bit older than a recent grad would not hurt you at all, in fact, it will most likely help you as you will be able to gain more experience and the adcoms will see you did not just jump in after a quick change of heart.

Also, for pre-reqs. These are the basic ones (minus gen bio/chem, ochem, english and 2 semesters physics), although each school may not require all of these. For further details, check out http://www.aavmc.org/
-cell bio
-microbio (+lab)
-nutrition (sometimes animal nutrition specifically)
-physiology (sometimes animal physiology specifically)
-calc (or sometimes 2 semesters of math)
-stats
-genetics

If you do have any more questions, hop over to the pre-vet forum here on SDN. It is majorly helpful and we get people all the time switching to pre-vet who need help, so people are more than willing to talk.
 
There are 28 veterinary schools in the US. The costs of vet school are nearly identical to the costs of med school, but average salary for a vet is about $55,000-65,000 (depending on area of vet med and state) the first year out. If you specialize you might be able to get into the $100,000 range but that is after spending more money on a competitive internship and residency. As for applying for vet schools, your stats are great (4.0 GPA). You will need to take the GRE (there is no longer a VCAT). Another thing about vet med is that you will still deal with long-lasting client-patient relationships. Also, in vet med you have not only the animal patients but also the clients (human owners) to take care of. Also to consider when applying to vet school: animal experience (volunteering at shelters, anything when not working with a DVM/PhD that involves animals) vs. vet experience (direct work under a DVM/PhD). The research you have done can count as vet experience if done under a PhD/DVM/MD. Most vet schools expect both vet and animal experience. It is important to get both breadth and depth. Lots of hours and varied experience (i.e. research, zoo, equine, large animal and small animal). About 100-200 hours in each looks fairly good. Lots of applicants have much more than this and some have less. I have about 4000 hours vet experience in small animals and some pocket pets. And another 500 hours or so volunteering in shelters and at the zoo. I have no experience in the other areas (research, equine, large animal) but I have still gotten some interviews. So it is really about what you take from the experience and having 0 hours in one area is not necessarily a deal breaker. Also all of the volunteer work you have done looks great on vet school apps. They like to see community involvement and lots of EC’s. Overall, you are not too far behind. You should have gotten all of the pre-reqs through your zoology degree but double-check specific schools websites to be sure. Honestly, the best thing you could do would be to shadow a vet for a couple of weeks and still see if you are interested. Vet med has many opportunities to offer: public health, work with the CDC, research, zoo, equine, large animal, small animal, exotics and pocket pets. Whatever you do decide to do good luck!! You will do great no matter which one…just follow your heart!!

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I am thinking about it in a new light (24 hours later lol..) and I think I would be apprehensive to switch just because of my lack of animal experience. The research I do focuses on parasites of Great Lakes fish species (he's not a DVM/PhD) and I literally have no animal experience. I would definitely be interested in getting some, but time invested in animal care is time not spent doing biomed research/shadowing/clinical volunteering/etc. that would improve my med school apps. I can honestly say that I have no idea which way I want to go. Vet med seems interesting and I am pretty sure that I like animal biology moreso than just human bio, but human medicine has other benefits. I love the idea of a guaranteed 6 digit salary and some fields (e.g. pathology, radiology, EM) seem like they would suit me really well. Maybe I can find some animal experience without sacrificing too much of my time, but would that be enough for a lot of vet schools? I just don't see all that vet/animal experience coming together in one calendar year.
 
Thanks for the responses, everyone. I am thinking about it in a new light (24 hours later lol..) and I think I would be apprehensive to switch just because of my lack of animal experience. The research I do focuses on parasites of Great Lakes fish species (he's not a DVM/PhD) and I literally have no animal experience. I would definitely be interested in getting some, but time invested in animal care is time not spent doing biomed research/shadowing/clinical volunteering/etc. that would improve my med school apps. I can honestly say that I have no idea which way I want to go. Vet med seems interesting and I am pretty sure that I like animal biology moreso than just human bio, but human medicine has other benefits. I love the idea of a guaranteed 6 digit salary and some fields (e.g. pathology, radiology, EM) seem like they would suit me really well. Maybe I can find some animal experience without sacrificing too much of my time, but would that be enough for a lot of vet schools? I just don't see all that vet/animal experience coming together in one calendar year.

It might be hard to get animal/vet experience needed by the application due date of Oct. 2, but if you are really interested in vet med and want to go that route you could possibly get enough experience in one calendar year (in time for the class of 2016). I would recommend shadowing a vet for a few weeks. I am not sure where your interest lies (small animal, large animal, etc.) but find a vet that will let you shadow and see what it really involves. It might surprise you and it might really interest you. I can guarantee there will be some similarities with human med and many, many differences. Also, vet schools like to see that you have had some good hands on experience under a DVM/PhD. It could be very difficult to get in off of only animal experience, especially if it is only volunteer work at an animal shelter, since schools like to see vet experience. Also you will need at least one LOR from a DVM so you are going to have to work with and get to know at least one DVM. Since you do not want to take time away from things that add to a med school application my suggestion would be to try some shadowing with a vet to get a taste of what the field is really like. If you absolutely fall in love with it then go for it!!! Jump in with both feet (take that extra year to gain the experience needed because doing something you love will be worth the extra time in the end), but if you find that you would not really enjoy it then continue going for your MD. This way you will not take that much time away from building a good med school application and you will be able to determine if you want to go into vet med instead. In the end, follow what your heart desires. You will never know what is right for you until you get out there and experience it for yourself…so go for it!!!
 
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