Drawing the line with staff demands

[DD214_DOC]

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Just wanted some input/opinions on a situation that came up today.

One of the nurses in the office I'm working in got on my bad side today. We started off buddies and she would ask me to help her with things on occasion. I didn't mind as long as I was not busy doing something with the attending. Ultimately it grew into her demanding I do things for her; she's starting to act like she's the attending.

Today, she started TELLING me to do things for her. My attitude towards her changed, obviously, and when she "asked" me to mop the floor in the OR that was the last straw. I didn't do it. As I was leaving, she gave a sarcastic comment about not doing it.

Now, I know nurses can make our rotations hell and even get us to fail. How should I proceed from here? I don't mind scut from my ATTENDING, and I don't mind HELPING the staff out when I have some free time, but this is crossing the line. I really didn't think it was my job to mop the damn floor in the OR.

My question is, am I being too selfish? WOuld you guys have *really* done it anyway? How do I approach this person and tell her that she isn't my attending and I'm willing to help but not be bossed around by her without causing lots of conflict? What would you guys do if the attending berates you for not mopping the floor?

Not sure how to handle this one. Well, I know how I *would* handle it, but that would make things a lot worse. Are med students really that low on the totem pole? I don't think it's my job to do theirs so they can leave early when I still have hours of studying to do.

Would you guys bring this conflict up with the attending?

 

[SOUNDMAN]

Just wanted some input/opinions on a situation that came up today.

One of the nurses in the office I'm working in got on my bad side today. We started off buddies and she would ask me to help her with things on occasion. I didn't mind as long as I was not busy doing something with the attending. Ultimately it grew into her demanding I do things for her; she's starting to act like she's the attending.

Today, she started TELLING me to do things for her. My attitude towards her changed, obviously, and when she "asked" me to mop the floor in the OR that was the last straw. I didn't do it. As I was leaving, she gave a sarcastic comment about not doing it.

Now, I know nurses can make our rotations hell and even get us to fail. How should I proceed from here? I don't mind scut from my ATTENDING, and I don't mind HELPING the staff out when I have some free time, but this is crossing the line. I really didn't think it was my job to mop the damn floor in the OR.

My question is, am I being too selfish? WOuld you guys have *really* done it anyway? How do I approach this person and tell her that she isn't my attending and I'm willing to help but not be bossed around by her without causing lots of conflict? What would you guys do if the attending berates you for not mopping the floor?

Not sure how to handle this one. Well, I know how I *would* handle it, but that would make things a lot worse. Are med students really that low on the totem pole? I don't think it's my job to do theirs so they can leave early when I still have hours of studying to do.

Would you guys bring this conflict up with the attending?

I would not MOP the OR, but helping positioning patients, getting stuff, etc,yea that's fine, but after the patient has left the OR, I'm with the patient.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I would not MOP the OR, but helping positioning patients, getting stuff, etc,yea that's fine, but after the patient has left the OR, I'm with the patient.

It's an outpatient OR in his office. The patient had already left. I was basically done for the day but just hanging out because the attending had not yet left.

 

[phoenix0610]

That's excessive--unforutunately some people take your kindness for weakness, feeding off the fact that you are there to impress in the endless hoop-jumping that are clinical rotations...

Just be adult about it and talk to her--explain that you are there to learn and provide patient care, not to mop floors--it's reasonable, and as long as you're respectful in your delivery however she chooses to respond after that is a reflection of her, not you. Hope everything works out--that's a tough situation.

 

[78222]

I wouldn't do it, but I don't really ever see it getting to a point where someone would ask me to mop the floor in the OR. If you draw lines early, things never get out of hand,

 

[Tired]

One of the nurses in the office I'm working in got on my bad side today. We started off buddies and she would ask me to help her with things on occasion. I didn't mind as long as I was not busy doing something with the attending.

This was your first mistake.

Ultimately it grew into her demanding I do things for her; she's starting to act like she's the attending.

Private nurses sometimes start to think of themselves as "partners" of the attending, and the attendings often foster that (it makes them feel important, and therefore work harder/longer hours).

Today, she started TELLING me to do things for her. My attitude towards her changed, obviously, and when she "asked" me to mop the floor in the OR that was the last straw.

Yup.

I didn't do it.

Good for you for not knuckling under.

As I was leaving, she gave a sarcastic comment about not doing it.

Parting jab. Think nothing of it.

Now, I know nurses can make our rotations hell and even get us to fail.

Bull****.

How should I proceed from here? I don't mind scut from my ATTENDING, and I don't mind HELPING the staff out when I have some free time, but this is crossing the line. I really didn't think it was my job to mop the damn floor in the OR.

You drew your line. From here on out it is unlikely that she will try to scut you out. She pushed you to see how far you would go, and now she knows.

If she's completely delusional about her role, or a total B, she may continue to push you. In the event that occurs, all you really have to do is explain to her that you are there as a student, not an aide. Be polite but firm. Explain that when you start getting a paycheck from the office, you will do that work, but until then thanks but no thanks.

The biggest mistake people make in these situations is involving the attending. Attendings don't want to hear about minor personality conflicts, and they don't want to be responsible for standing up to their own staff over silly issues like this. There is no reason to do so, so don't. Handle it yourself. No one can *make* you mop a floor, so don't do it.

My question is, am I being too selfish? WOuld you guys have *really* done it anyway? How do I approach this person and tell her that she isn't my attending and I'm willing to help but not be bossed around by her without causing lots of conflict? What would you guys do if the attending berates you for not mopping the floor?

Are you seriously entertaining the notion that you pay money to your school so you can do grunt work for a nurse? You're college educated, enrolled in a graduate program. It's one thing to do scut for a resident/attending, because if you didn't do it, they would do it themselves. But doing a nurse's job (who is getting paid absurdly more money than you will make as a resident) is just dumb.

Re-evaluate your position and quit asking these questions.

 

[barasch]

If she continues to bring this kind of thing up, speak to her alone and on neutral turf. Say something like, "As a student, my primary role here is to learn patient care. While I don't mind helping with administrative duties on occasion, the administrative things I help with are not entirely in line with the clerkship goals as outlined in my syllabus.

If she lets it drop, you should let it drop too.

If for some bizarre reason the situation escalates, bring it up to your course coordinator in a phone call - don't use email.

Don't bring it up with the attending - the attending has to work with this nurse in an ongoing manner - the attending is unlikely to take your side or her side.

 

[PrussianBlue1]

If she continues to bring this kind of thing up, speak to her alone and on neutral turf. Say something like, "As a student, my primary role here is to learn patient care. While I don't mind helping with administrative duties on occasion, the administrative things I help with are not entirely in line with the clerkship goals as outlined in my syllabus.

If she lets it drop, you should let it drop too.

If for some bizarre reason the situation escalates, bring it up to your course coordinator in a phone call - don't use email.

Don't bring it up with the attending - the attending has to work with this nurse in an ongoing manner - the attending is unlikely to take your side or her side.

excellent advice. This whole situation is incredible. At the same time, you could help her mopping the floor for the day, and at the same time let her know that you need to study and do your own stuff. In other words, you help her, but tell her that this cannot continue.

 

[Hurricane95]

That's garbage. You're not paying tuition to do anyone else's bitch work. You are there to learn and care for patients. That's why you're a MEDICAL STUDENT, not training for OR tech at a little 3 month program in some community institute.

In the OR, I used to fetch my own gloves, help position and move the patient, start an IV and foley, etc. These are all related to learning and/or patient care. Mopping the floor is not even the NURSE's job, one of the OR techs has to do that. Usually the same dude or lady who makes sure the cabinets are supplied, etc. I was never asked to do that, but then again I doubt I radiated a soft, malleable aura to any of the nurses. They knew I was there to do MY job and that's it.

Just say no and give her your back. DO NOT "help her mop the floor today only" as the guy above me suggests or you open the door to be stepped on from here on forward. Put them in their place early.

 

[indo]

You should be offended that there was some part of her that actually thought you would mop the floor. haha.

 

[Ashers]

You should be offended that there was some part of her that actually thought you would mop the floor. haha.

I had a nurse's aide explain to me what to do the next time a patient needed to get up to go to the bathroom when I was in the room (because it was in the middle of pre-rounds). I don't think she liked it that I pushed the button for the patient.

 

[Nurse2009]

You should be offended that there was some part of her that actually thought you would mop the floor. haha.[/quote

Can I make a little suggestion.Drop your attitude before med school is over cause you dont want to be viewed as doc with superiority complex,and if you do than hmmm "Good luck with that"

What is the big deal with mopping the floor?When you spill milk at your house are you going to call your housekeeper on her day off to come in and mop the floor for you...? Arogance doesnt pay off in the long run....

Yeah,definitely the nurse in question treated the OP unfairly and she was too demanding and like someone else said it is ok to do her a little favors from time to time but she should never make him/her her personal slave.Speak up and tell her you are not her busboy.Good luck🙂))

 

[Nurse2009]

I had a nurse's aide explain to me what to do the next time a patient needed to get up to go to the bathroom when I was in the room (because it was in the middle of pre-rounds). I don't think she liked it that I pushed the button for the patient.

And that would hmmm cause you your rotation hmmm???
I am a nursing student but when I'm on my rotation I wash patient up,feed them,change them even though I know that I wont be doing that too often when I become nurse, but I wont even hesitate to change the pt when there will be a need.It is called "teamwork" You want respect,give some back.Just my personal opinion.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

And that would hmmm cause you your rotation hmmm???
I am a nursing student but when I'm on my rotation I wash patient up,feed them,change them even though I know that I wont be doing that too often when I become nurse, but I wont even hesitate to change the pt when there will be a need.It is called "teamwork" You want respect,give some back.Just my personal opinion.

I hate these nurse/medical student fights, but we honestly don't have time to do these things while pre-rounding. I don't know what your rotation responsibilities entail, but if you have time to do all these things, I'm guessing you have a decent amount of downtime while on the wards. We really don't. I seriously can't imagine finding the time when I'm already super rushed in the morning to help change a patient or even worse feed them.

 

[AmyO]

Nurse 2009.....I'm not trying to be rude, so hopefully you don't take it that way, but......Nurses are ultimately responsible for bathing their pts, cleaning up their pts if they have soiled themselves, feeding them, etc. A lot of the time, the tech does these tasks (I know I was one) but the tech usually has 1/2 of the floor, so the nurse is ultimately responsible for making sure their pt is taken care of. I'm trying to figure out where you're going to be a nurse and not have to do these things very often. As a nursing student, you should be helping w/ these tasks.

 

[smq123]

Can I make a little suggestion.Drop your attitude before med school is over cause you dont want to be viewed as doc with superiority complex,and if you do than hmmm "Good luck with that"

What is the big deal with mopping the floor?When you spill milk at your house are you going to call your housekeeper on her day off to come in and mop the floor for you...? Arogance doesnt pay off in the long run....

a) The big deal with mopping the floor is that the nurse treated the med student like her personal servant. It is not acceptable to make a med student do your job for you. That's NOT what med students get paid to learn. I would never dream of making a nursing student do my job for me (i.e. hold the pager, go grab me a soda, collect vitals for me, etc.), so why is it okay for a nurse to make a med student do HER job?

b) After the patient leaves the OR, the students have their own things that they need to do. They may need to go to lecture, go pre-op the next patient, help round on the floor, or help put in orders for the patient that was just operated on. They do not have time to stay in the OR and mop the floor.

I am a nursing student but when I'm on my rotation I wash patient up,feed them,change them even though I know that I wont be doing that too often when I become nurse, but I wont even hesitate to change the pt when there will be a need.It is called "teamwork" You want respect,give some back.Just my personal opinion.

What the nurses (and nurses aides) fail to understand is that med students have their own set of prescribed duties. I know that many nurses think that all med students aren't doing anything more than just wandering around aimlessly, but that is definitely not true.

If Ashers helps the patient go to the bathroom and then back into bed (which I doubt that she has any experience doing), then she will probably not have enough time to see all of her patients before formal team rounds that morning. She has other things to do that really do need to get done.

 

[WorkaholicsAnon]

You should be offended that there was some part of her that actually thought you would mop the floor. haha.

Can I make a little suggestion.Drop your attitude before med school is over cause you dont want to be viewed as doc with superiority complex,and if you do than hmmm "Good luck with that"

What is the big deal with mopping the floor?When you spill milk at your house are you going to call your housekeeper on her day off to come in and mop the floor for you...? Arogance doesnt pay off in the long run....

Yeah,definitely the nurse in question treated the OP unfairly and she was too demanding and like someone else said it is ok to do her a little favors from time to time but she should never make him/her her personal slave.Speak up and tell her you are not her busboy.Good luck🙂))

Well, what if the med student wasn't rotating at that office? Who would mop the floor then? Whoever usually does it would be the person who would mop the floor when the med student is there too.

It's completely inappropriate for the nurse to be demanding that the med student mop the floor or do any nursing responsibilities that the nurse is being paid to do. The medical student is paying to learn medicine, not to do the nurses work for her/him.

It's not a "superiority complex." It's setting priorities. Physicians and medical students have a lot to do for patients and by far not enough time to do all the many responsibilities involved in a physician's care of patients, much less nursing work or aide work. That is why allied health professionals like PAs, NPs, RNs, aides, and techs exist. This is not necessarily directed at just you Nurse2009, but to all allied health professionals that might be reading this and feel the same way you do--do your job and quit complaining when trying to take advantage of medical students/interns/residents does not work just because you're lazy. If they do you a favor and help you out, be grateful and realize that they are not supposed to do that and are likely late for something they are responsible for because of their favor to you. That said, the overwhelming majority of nurses i have worked with have been wonderful and do not have your mindset. I hope by the time you finish nursing school or once you see doctors at work, you will change your attitude about this.

 

[Nurse2009]

Nurse 2009.....I'm not trying to be rude, so hopefully you don't take it that way, but......Nurses are ultimately responsible for bathing their pts, cleaning up their pts if they have soiled themselves, feeding them, etc. A lot of the time, the tech does these tasks (I know I was one) but the tech usually has 1/2 of the floor, so the nurse is ultimately responsible for making sure their pt is taken care of. I'm trying to figure out where you're going to be a nurse and not have to do these things very often.

Well I dont want to hijack this thread and discuss my future responsibilities as a nurse because that would be rude however my answer to you is that just like you when you will become a doctor you will have to assess your patients,write orders and make medical diagnoses,I will have to also assess patients,act upon your your order and chart,and as we all know the nurse-patient ratio is insane these days.So yeah, I probably will have to relay on techs, 90% of time.And I wonder when was the last time you saw the nurse feeding 7 of her patients,making their beds,wash them, and while doing that pass the meds your prescribed,change dressing per orders,rescue some coding patient etc...maybe you are talking about nursing home,then yeah in some nursing homes that happends,but not too many,it has to be a good one.

 

[AmyO]

Um, actually it was an ICU but you obviously don't get the point anyways so I'm gonna let it be.

 

[Nurse2009]

Um, actually it was an ICU but you obviously don't get the point anyways so I'm gonna let it be.

No need to be rude sister but you are talking about one unit out of plenty.
Point taken,but hey think what you feel like.

 

[AmyO]

I'm not being rude. I'm just frustrated. My point was that bathing a pt, cleaning up a pt, etc is NOT out of the realm of your job duties. Mopping an OR floor is out of the realm of what a physician will be doing. This is not b/c the med student is above mopping the floor, but b/c there are things he or she needs to be doing at that time. Although you do have a lot of other things to be doing such as passing meds, etc., you are ultimately responsible for making sure your pts are clean and well taken care of. I don't think you can argue to Magnet or licensing agencies that leaving a pt in a soiled bed is not your problem and that you need to pass meds first. That's all I have to say.

 

[Nurse2009]

Well, what if the med student wasn't rotating at that office? Who would mop the floor then? Whoever usually does it would be the person who would mop the floor when the med student is there too.

It's completely inappropriate for the nurse to be demanding that the med student mop the floor or do any nursing responsibilities that the nurse is being paid to do. The medical student is paying to learn medicine, not to do the nurses work for her/him.

It's not a "superiority complex." It's setting priorities. Physicians and medical students have a lot to do for patients and by far not enough time to do all the many responsibilities involved in a physician's care of patients, much less nursing work or aide work. That is why allied health professionals like PAs, NPs, RNs, aides, and techs exist. This is not necessarily directed at just you Nurse2009, but to all allied health professionals that might be reading this and feel the same way you do--do your job and quit complaining when trying to take advantage of medical students/interns/residents does not work just because you're lazy. If they do you a favor and help you out, be grateful and realize that they are not supposed to do that and are likely late for something they are responsible for because of their favor to you. That said, the overwhelming majority of nurses i have worked with have been wonderful and do not have your mindset. I hope by the time you finish nursing school or once you see doctors at work, you will change your attitude about this.

Did you read what I wrote or your ego interferes with your interpretation of things? At the end of post I made it clear that I dont agree with the way the nurse in question treats the med student however if you recall he stated he didnt mind helping her out time to time.
Please dont make assumptions and put words in someone else mouths.

 

[Nurse2009]

I hate these nurse/medical student fights, but we honestly don't have time to do these things while pre-rounding. I don't know what your rotation responsibilities entail, but if you have time to do all these things, I'm guessing you have a decent amount of downtime while on the wards. We really don't. I seriously can't imagine finding the time when I'm already super rushed in the morning to help change a patient or even worse feed them.

No we dont have plenty of time on the wards,because we have to do both physical as well as mental job.

 

[Nurse2009]

a) The big deal with mopping the floor is that the nurse treated the med student like her personal servant. It is not acceptable to make a med student do your job for you. That's NOT what med students get paid to learn. I would never dream of making a nursing student do my job for me (i.e. hold the pager, go grab me a soda, collect vitals for me, etc.), so why is it okay for a nurse to make a med student do HER job?

b) After the patient leaves the OR, the students have their own things that they need to do. They may need to go to lecture, go pre-op the next patient, help round on the floor, or help put in orders for the patient that was just operated on. They do not have time to stay in the OR and mop the floor.



What the nurses (and nurses aides) fail to understand is that med students have their own set of prescribed duties. I know that many nurses think that all med students aren't doing anything more than just wandering around aimlessly, but that is definitely not true.

If Ashers helps the patient go to the bathroom and then back into bed (which I doubt that she has any experience doing), then she will probably not have enough time to see all of her patients before formal team rounds that morning. She has other things to do that really do need to get done.

I undertand that medical students are busy and always on the run,however yes I do have a problem with how Ashers and Indo feel about mopping the floor,rude awaking" God damn,it is just a floor.Get over it.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

No we dont have plenty of time on the wards,because we have to do both physical as well as mental job.

OK, but what does that physical job entail? I'm guessing a lot of the stuff above that you mentioned helping out with, in which case you are doing your duties by feeding, changing patients, etc.. If we stopped to do that, we wouldn't be able to get our assigned tasks done. Also, as mentioned above, these tasks that you are helping out with are under general nursing requirements. As a RN, even if you're not doing them yourself, it's your job that they get done. They're not the responsibility of physicians or medical students, and our spending time helping out with them actually takes away from the time we can spend learning what we need to learn.

I wasn't trying to be snarky with my post above, but I don't think you have a realistic understanding of our time constraints.

 

[tkim]

I undertand that medical students are busy and always on the run,however yes I do have a problem with how Ashers and Indo feel about mopping the floor,rude awaking" God damn,it is just a floor.Get over it.

Sorry, you must have mistaken this site for allnurses.com.

 

[Ashers]

I hate these nurse/medical student fights, but we honestly don't have time to do these things while pre-rounding. I don't know what your rotation responsibilities entail, but if you have time to do all these things, I'm guessing you have a decent amount of downtime while on the wards. We really don't. I seriously can't imagine finding the time when I'm already super rushed in the morning to help change a patient or even worse feed them.

Exactly. I don't necessarily have time to do EVERYTHING for my patient in the morning, when we start formal rounding at 4:45AM, so I have to be there at 3:30-3:45AM to see all my patients, write their notes, make sure the list is up to date, etc.

What the nurses (and nurses aides) fail to understand is that med students have their own set of prescribed duties. I know that many nurses think that all med students aren't doing anything more than just wandering around aimlessly, but that is definitely not true.

If Ashers helps the patient go to the bathroom and then back into bed (which I doubt that she has any experience doing), then she will probably not have enough time to see all of her patients before formal team rounds that morning. She has other things to do that really do need to get done.

Exactly, smq123. I love it how these threads attract these fights. Anyway, the patient in question was a very nice lady with ALS who couldn't talk, used a walker, had a foley, IV, g-tube. Um, yeah, I don't know what to do with all those when the patient's walking around. It's much safer for someone who knows exactly what to do.

If I have time, I will go out of my way to help nurses. My mom's a nurse; she told me how nurses could help/hurt me during rotations. Generally, it's been good, and nurses have told me stuff about my patients and given me hints about typical pimp questions. And me not helping the nurse's AIDE (which I said before) with getting the lady to the bathroom was not detrimental to my grade or my career in anyway.

Edit: I shouldn't even have to explain this since this is the med student part, and most med students tend to understand what we're all going through.

 

[Nurse2009]

OK, but what does that physical job entail? I'm guessing a lot of the stuff above that you mentioned helping out with, in which case you are doing your duties by feeding, changing patients, etc.. If we stopped to do that, we wouldn't be able to get our assigned tasks done. Also, as mentioned above, these tasks that you are helping out with are under general nursing requirements. As a RN, even if you're not doing them yourself, it's your job that they get done. They're not the responsibility of physicians or medical students, and our spending time helping out with them actually takes away from the time we can spend learning what we need to learn.

I wasn't trying to be snarky with my post above, but I don't think you have a realistic understanding of our time constraints.

Just to clarify 90 of nurses dont expect the docs to be physically taking care of the pt,after all we nurses do that,however the real nursing became a memory or even history because ours time constrains also does not allow as to give the nursing care we really want to offer to our patients.
There are some bad apples in nursing just like rotten tomatoes in medicine field.However nothing aggravates me more than an individual who think he cant get his hands dirty when times call.And to think men used to be hunters,what happends?? Anyway I would never want Indo or Asher to be my doc when would be pt or to be a doc I work WITH.Yes work with not Under.This is what I dread when I finish nursing school my confrontation with smart assess wanna be.

 

[indo]

Can I make a little suggestion.Drop your attitude before med school is over cause you dont want to be viewed as doc with superiority complex,and if you do than hmmm "Good luck with that"

What is the big deal with mopping the floor?When you spill milk at your house are you going to call your housekeeper on her day off to come in and mop the floor for you...? Arogance doesnt pay off in the long run....

Yeah,definitely the nurse in question treated the OP unfairly and she was too demanding and like someone else said it is ok to do her a little favors from time to time but she should never make him/her her personal slave.Speak up and tell her you are not her busboy.Good luck🙂))

You are not qualified to give me suggestions.

 

[Nurse2009]

Sorry, you must have mistaken this site for allnurses.com.

I see you have been searching for nursing sites yourself

 

[Nurse2009]

You are not qualified to give me suggestions.

Are you for real? Good luck with "you"

 

[Ashers]

Just to clarify 90 of nurses dont [sic] expect the docs to be physically taking care of the pt,after [sic] all we nurses do that,however [sic] the real nursing became a memory or even history because ours [sic] time constrains [sic] also does [sic] not allow as [sic] to give the nursing care we really want to offer to our patients.
There are some bad apples in nursing just like rotten tomatoes in medicine field. [sic] However nothing aggravates me more than an individual who think [sic] he cant get his hands dirty when times call.And [sic] to think men used to be hunters,what happends??[sic] Anyway I would never want Indo [sic] or Asher [sic] to be my doc when would be pt or to be a doc I work WITH.Yes [sic] work with not Under.This [sic] is what I dread when I finish nursing school my confrontation with smart assess [sic] wanna be.

🙄 I'm so glad you're able to tell indo's and my personalities and what type of doctors we'll be based on posts in the medical student forum; where, as it has been stated many times in the past, people come to rant a little bit and relieve frustrations.

 

[tkim]

I see you have been searching for nursing sites yourself

No, but it's the place you'll get the most support.

 

[Nurse2009]

No, but it's the place you'll get the most support.

And no wonder why "gee"🙄

 

[indo]

Are you for real? Good luck with "you"

No. But, you have to understand that med students are not spending their free time performing hospital maintainance. There is no nurse of any position or authority in the hospital that could convince me that mopping is part of the med student job description. Besides, the moppers union would have a fit.

 

[Nurse2009]

🙄 I'm so glad you're able to tell indo's and my personalities and what type of doctors we'll be based on posts in the medical student forum; where, as it has been stated many times in the past, people come to rant a little bit and relieve frustrations.

Not it is the way you present yourself from your posts.But hey if you dont want to take constructive criticism,let it be what you want it be.

It is sunday.I dont work sunday and I dont get frustrated on sunday,cheers!

 

[Ashers]

Come to think of it, I would never expect to be asked to help a patient walk to the bathroom or mop a floor as a phlebotomist; the job I held before medical school.

I was paid to do certain things: draw blood, process specimen, do PKU things on babies, prepare micro plates, etc. None of the nurses in the ER or floor would ask me to do something out of my ability or training (which, yes, mopping may very well be out of our training if there's a specific protocol that must be followed in the OR, or waste management if diarrhea was all over the floor -- saw it plenty of times). I still however, helped nurses when I could, because if I couldn't get a draw, they'd help me.

As a medical student, as previously stated many times, I have my own set of duties, many of which have to be completed in a short amount of time, unless I want to come in at 2AM after going to bed at like 10PM. Just not feasible in all circumstances. Then there's lectures we have to attend, and many times, I'd much rather be on the floor doing random stuff than sitting in boring lecture.

 

[Ashers]

Not it is the way you present yourself from your posts.But hey if you dont want to take constructive criticism,let it be what you want it be.

It is sunday.I dont work sunday and I dont get frustrated on sunday,cheers!

Really? You're sure presenting yourself as frustrated in your posts, this very Sunday.

I don't take constructive criticism? I went out of my way to explain the situation. Geez. You can sure judge well. I wouldn't have gotten where I am today if I couldn't.

 

[Nurse2009]

Really? You're sure presenting yourself as frustrated in your posts, this very Sunday.

I don't take constructive criticism? I went out of my way to explain the situation. Geez. You can sure judge well. I wouldn't have gotten where I am today if I couldn't.

No hard feelings but I have to go back to my studies.It was nice to talk you all.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Hi all,

Remember the report post button is your friend for a variety of forum concerns!

 

[Substance]

You did the right thing.

If a nurse suggested to me that I mop up the OR after a surgery, I would ignore her completely. It would be as if she was talking to a wall.

If she decided to be persistent, I'd continue to ignore her the same way I ignore the homeless panhandlers as they accost me for change I don't have.
After my duties in the OR were done, I'd leave.

We're medical students. Future doctors. Mopping any floor anywhere is beneath us. Furthermore, mopping a floor has nothing to do with medical education.

Once again, good on you for refusing to do that lazy nurse's work.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Eh, this is a judgement call.

In my experience, it's best to just handle people as diplomatically as you can based on the demands on your own time. It's just as good to surprise a nurse by doing something ("Mrs. Stevenson wet herself but I just changed her diaper really quick since I was there and interviewing her") than to set up a role for yourself as nurse's aide. And patients usually appreciate it if their doctor (most still think you're a doctor regardless of whether you tell them you're a med student) took that extra step to help them out like that.

Personally, regarding the original post and original scenario, I think it depends on a lot of factors. Did you just refuse and then sit in a chair reading Cosmo outside the room (it sounds like it was an office procedure room, not an OR as some people are saying), or did you say "sorry, I can't today I need to follow-up with Dr. Smith on a few things" or "I need to head home to study", or some other legitimate reason not to do it. The best thing you can do on rotations is become a well-functioning member of the team.

That said, I do think that mopping the floor is out of the scope of a med student's role. And very often, when you even try to do something like that that clearly isn't your job, you end up doing it wrong or something and the nurse yells at you anyway.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I'm a bit surprised about the responses some people have written. Why do students accept that they will be yelled at by staff? Medical student or not, nobody is going to yell at me, and nobody is going to demand I do some of their work so they can leave early or avoid staying late.

I think part of the problem is that nurses don't really *get* what being a med student is. When she leaves at the end of the day, she's done. When I leave, I still have hours of work left to do; I certainly don't want to stay later than I have to in order to mop the floor so she can get out a little early. I'm finding that if you give them an inch, they'll take a foot. The mentality is different. Our mentality is, "you work until the work is done, then you leave". Theirs is, "I work until it's break time, lunch time, or 5PM". I'm sure there are some who are not like this, but I have yet to meet them.

Anyway, the issue is settled. I'm a pretty patient person and don't mind helping out, and things tend to roll off of me, but I made it known that I will not be told what to do and I will not tolerate anyone getting an attitude with me, not because I'm a, "mighty med student" but because I am who I am and won't put up with it, good grade or not. There is no reason to be treated poorly by anyone regardless of our position. If some people want to bend over and take it I guess that's their choice. It isn't mine.

 

[Saluki]

I'm a total doormat, so I probably would have done it... But I'm going to write based on what I think is a good idea to do instead😛

If you had other work to do and were doing it or you were getting ready to leave, then saying no was 100% appropriate... And if she didn't understand when you told her that, then she doesn't sound like an incredibly nice person...

If you were just sitting around waiting for your attending to get through, then you were still completely within your rights to say no... After all, you are paying a large sum of money to learn medicine not act as a member of the janitorial staff.... But I'm not sure it was worth creating a conflict with the nurse in a small office in that case...

In any case, whether you made the right decision or not, this is where you are right now... I would be friendly but professional with the nurse from now on and not bring it up again unless she does... If she continues to try to scut you, say yes when you have time and no when you don't (the latter case will probably be making up the majority of the situations if you're on surgery🙂

 

[ubcredfox]

I can't even believe this is being discussed, so I thought I'd post a short anecdote.

Once upon a time in an ER not so far away, I was merrily writing up a note on a patient I had just seen. The attending was on my left, and the ER phone directly in front of me. This was a small ER, so there was only one phone and are unit clerk was also the nurse. To help out, I thought I'd answer it; the nurse was busy and I thought I'd help out. Afterwords the attending took me aside and told me that it wasn't my job to answer the phone; he specifically delineated my role for me in regards to what I can do/should do as a medical student.

His advice is echoed in the ideas of multidisciplinary teams as an approach to patient care. Working in such teams may involve a certain amount of "role blurring" but the best teams are those where everyone knows what they are supposed to do.

The nurse is the nurse. Her job is nursing. This should be made blatantly clear in every patient encounter. I don't answer phones. I don't bring bed pans to patients, clean linens or wash clothes for the feverish infirm.

My rule of thumb is that if doing something doesn't help me in my differential then I don't do it. Period.

 

[Saluki]

I can't even believe this is being discussed, so I thought I'd post a short anecdote.

Once upon a time in an ER not so far away, I was merrily writing up a note on a patient I had just seen. The attending was on my left, and the ER phone directly in front of me. This was a small ER, so there was only one phone and are unit clerk was also the nurse. To help out, I thought I'd answer it; the nurse was busy and I thought I'd help out. Afterwords the attending took me aside and told me that it wasn't my job to answer the phone; he specifically delineated my role for me in regards to what I can do/should do as a medical student.

His advice is echoed in the ideas of multidisciplinary teams as an approach to patient care. Working in such teams may involve a certain amount of "role blurring" but the best teams are those where everyone knows what they are supposed to do.

The nurse is the nurse. Her job is nursing. This should be made blatantly clear in every patient encounter. I don't answer phones. I don't bring bed pans to patients, clean linens or wash clothes for the feverish infirm.

My rule of thumb is that if doing something doesn't help me in my differential then I don't do it. Period.

Phone rings right next to me at the nursing unit...

Me: Should I answer it?
Nurse: Did you page someone?
Me: No
Nurse: Then probaby not; we have a secretary....

And I felt tremendously relieved😀

 

[JPR22]

Probably a good idea to never answer a phone unless youve paged someone

 

[Ashers]

Probably a good idea to never answer a phone unless youve paged someone

Last year I had a nurse make snide remarks under her breath, but loud enough for me to hear, when I didn't answer the phone. It was only one nurse who did that, the rest didn't expect me to answer it. I still don't answer the phone unless I page someone.

 

[Tired]

Last year I had a nurse make snide remarks under her breath, but loud enough for me to hear, when I didn't answer the phone. It was only one nurse who did that, the rest didn't expect me to answer it. I still don't answer the phone unless I page someone.

All of you need to stop worrying/caring what the nurses "expect" you to do.

Their expectations are unimportant, both now and in the future.

You know your job. Do your job. Leave them to do their's.

It's a team, but what so many nurses miss is that "team" doesn't mean everyone help each other with their job. Team members have roles that they are expected to carry out.

I swear to God, if I had time to mop floors and clean bedpans, I'd fire every single nurse and save healthcare in American a billion dollars.

 

[indo]

Phone rings right next to me at the nursing unit...

Me: Should I answer it?
Nurse: Did you page someone?
Me: No
Nurse: Then probaby not; we have a secretary....

And I felt tremendously relieved😀

ha, plus, the person on the phone is probably going to asking for a dr. with a last name that you can't pronounce.