drop out of graduate school?

[willi113]

So I am contemplating dropping out of graduate school to pursue medical school and I am wondering if this will look bad, is a bad idea, etc?

I graduated from Northwestern in 05 with a bachelors in communication sciences and disorders and a 3.45 GPA. I always wanted to go to medical school,but I never finished up the prereqs due to laziness and I was convinced I would be satisfied being an audiologist. So now I am in a Doctor of audiology program and just finished up the 1st year of a 4 year program and I have found myself constantly depressed about this decision. It is not that I don't like audiology I just think I would be happier doing medicine because I find it more interesting.

It is also risky for me to drop out of graduate school because I have not taken organic chem, physics, bio , or the MCAT so I am assuming that I will get into medical school eventually. It is not really an option to take the premed classes while in audiology school due to clinic schedules and there are no premedical post-bacc programs in the area.

I guess thats about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am very confused over what to do!

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[relentless11]

So I am contemplating dropping out of graduate school to pursue medical school and I am wondering if this will look bad, is a bad idea, etc?

Perhaps as a PhD student you can try to just leave with a masters. Leaving any program, whether it is graduate or professional looks bad. The adcoms can say that you don't know what you were getting into when you applied to grad school, and thus you may not know what you are getting into for med school. Med schools want to see dedication, rather than indecisiveness. One can say that you will be dedicated to medicine, but actions speak louder than words, and thus your leaving a grad program may hurt you.

I graduated from Northwestern in 05 with a bachelors in communication sciences and disorders and a 3.45 GPA. I always wanted to go to medical school,but I never finished up the prereqs due to laziness and I was convinced I would be satisfied being an audiologist. So now I am in a Doctor of audiology program and just finished up the 1st year of a 4 year program and I have found myself constantly depressed about this decision. It is not that I don't like audiology I just think I would be happier doing medicine because I find it more interesting.

Although you always wanted to go to medical school, your statement that you never finished your prereqs due to laziness is not encouraging. By all means do what interests you the most, but at the same time, in my above statement, do you know what you are getting into? Being happier doing medicine since you find it more interesting is one thing, but will that hold when you actually experience this field? I don't know, only you can answer that one.

It is also risky for me to drop out of graduate school because I have not taken organic chem, physics, bio , or the MCAT so I am assuming that I will get into medical school eventually. It is not really an option to take the premed classes while in audiology school due to clinic schedules and there are no premedical post-bacc programs in the area.

I guess thats about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am very confused over what to do!

You either want to do it or not. Applying to med school is a full time job in its own right, let alone doing the pre-reqs. Why look for a pre-medical post-bacc program. Just take the pre-reqs. As stated in many other threads, you can take classes at any accredited school that lets you take classes. Personally, I don't quit what I have volunteered for. The only way they're going to get me out of this PhD program is if i fail my qualifying exam, or never come up with a good enough dissertation. So I encourage you to finish, rather than give it up.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I sort of see this as two questions. 1. Should you drop out of the audiology program, and 2. should you pursue medicine? If you don't think you would be happy as an audiologist or even if you're not 100% sure it's right, I'd suggest taking a leave of absense. My guess is that an audiology doctorate is a professional type of degree and that it doesn't do anything for you if you don't want to be an audiologist. Spending the time and money to complete a four-year degree just because you don't want to look like a quitter is a huge waste, imo. If you were in your last year or even second to last year, there might be some sense in sticking with it, but you're in your first year. If you don't want to be there, don't be there.

Relentless, like other SDNers, definitely disagrees with me, but one thing to note is that there's a big distinction between getting a professional graduate degree and getting a research-oriented graduate degree. A professional degree is designed solely to train you to be a member of a certain profession, and it has almost zero value if you don't join that profession. I can't comment on the whether or not one should leave a traditional Ph.D. or masters program, but professional programs are inherently different in both goals and structure.

Once you figure out the audiology thing, you can start to address the medical school question. My one big piece of advice is not to immediately jump into taking your medical school prereqs after leaving audiology school because it sounds like you still have lots of thinking to do about careers and school.

 

[Scottish Chap]

So I am contemplating dropping out of graduate school to pursue medical school and I am wondering if this will look bad, is a bad idea, etc?

I graduated from Northwestern in 05 with a bachelors in communication sciences and disorders and a 3.45 GPA. I always wanted to go to medical school,but I never finished up the prereqs due to laziness and I was convinced I would be satisfied being an audiologist. So now I am in a Doctor of audiology program and just finished up the 1st year of a 4 year program and I have found myself constantly depressed about this decision. It is not that I don't like audiology I just think I would be happier doing medicine because I find it more interesting.

It is also risky for me to drop out of graduate school because I have not taken organic chem, physics, bio , or the MCAT so I am assuming that I will get into medical school eventually. It is not really an option to take the premed classes while in audiology school due to clinic schedules and there are no premedical post-bacc programs in the area.

I guess thats about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am very confused over what to do!

You have some soul-searching decisions to make. As far as completing the missing prereq's and the MCAT....it's just a matter of time and effort but, if you are really serious about medicine, it's something that's worthy of your full attention. I always recommend honoring your current commitment but, as a previous poster alluded to, your doctoral program is highly specialized and presents additional complications. I understand why you are questioning your decision to remain there.

For what it's worth, a guy in my medical school class started out in a PA program and he quit half-way through because he felt that the quality of the education was poor in that particular program. He made it into medical school, but be had already taken the MCAT + prereq's. Another friend of mine is in her 40's and, 20 years ago, she took a leave of absence from her doctor of physical therapy program after year 1 because she was not sure if she was meant to be there. She never went back and became a high school teacher instead. In her late 30's she took her prereq's and applied to medical school. She is now in her 4th year at my school.....where she was originally enrolled at a DPT student! She said medical school is a breeze because she knows she's meant to be there whereas she never had that feeling in the DPT program and questioned her presence there every day. They are anecdotes, I know, but they may help you. Good luck with your decision!

 

[beetlerum]

Take a leave and start the prereqs. Do not feel you need to complete the degree just for the sake of completing it. That is silly. Personally, if I were an adcom member, I would actually look less favorably on someone who did 3 more years of a program because they thought it was somehow inherently bad to leave an educational program than someone who proactively corrected their mistake.

Yes, you may look indecisive, but you will look that way anyhow. You will also be a few years older and probably in more debt.

 

[willi113]

Thanks to everyone that has replied so far. Just for clarification it is a professional doctorate (AuD) and not a PhD and I am on full scholarship so I am not losing a huge amount of money. If that affects anyones opinion... 🙂

 

[Sundarban1]

Finish the program. It will not look good on your application unless you have a very good reason, and just stopping to start your pre-reqs is not a very good reason for leaving a graduate program.

 

[beetlerum]

Finish the program. It will not look good on your application unless you have a very good reason, and just stopping to start your pre-reqs is not a very good reason for leaving a graduate program.

You want him to do 3 more years of an expensive, demanding graduate program that serves only to prepare him for a career he doesn't want? He wouldn't be doing anyone any favors. It's not fair to himself, his classmates, or his professors.

By the way, could you provide support for your assertion that it will not look good on his application? That med schools would prefer for him to do the 3 extra years before applying.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

You want him to do 3 more years of an expensive, demanding graduate program that serves only to prepare him for a career he doesn't want? He wouldn't be doing anyone any favors. It's not fair to himself, his classmates, or his professors.

By the way, could you provide support for your assertion that it will not look good on his application? That med schools would prefer for him to do the 3 extra years before applying.

Probably not -- it's just conventional SDN wisdom that you should never, ever drop out of a graduate program. The thing is that schools probably don't like you to enroll in a master's program to boost your grades and then drop out after the first year. The op's situation is different.

 

[microgin]

You want him to do 3 more years of an expensive, demanding graduate program that serves only to prepare him for a career he doesn't want? He wouldn't be doing anyone any favors. It's not fair to himself, his classmates, or his professors.

By the way, could you provide support for your assertion that it will not look good on his application? That med schools would prefer for him to do the 3 extra years before applying.

I think to most people, it just seems dangerous to set a precedent of starting something and then changing your mind and deciding that it isn't what you want to do with your life. Who's to say that the OP wouldn't get into medical school and then decide after the first year that it isn't what s/he wanted to do and drop out of that too?

If you drop out of a program, you should be certain that you are able to defend the decision when grilled about it in an interview. And be sure to have plenty of experience with shadowing, medical volunteering, and other medically-related experiences so that you show that you've "road-tested" what being a physician is going to be like, and still want to follow through with it.

 

[beetlerum]

I think to most people, it just seems dangerous to set a precedent of starting something and then changing your mind and deciding that it isn't what you want to do with your life. Who's to say that the OP wouldn't get into medical school and then decide after the first year that it isn't what s/he wanted to do and drop out of that too?

If you drop out of a program, you should be certain that you are able to defend the decision when grilled about it in an interview. And be sure to have plenty of experience with shadowing, medical volunteering, and other medically-related experiences so that you show that you've "road-tested" what being a physician is going to be like, and still want to follow through with it.

yes, but the same thing will happen even if he finishes. unless you want him to finish and work as an audiologist for several years before applying. life is a little short for that.

 

[microgin]

yes, but the same thing will happen even if he finishes. unless you want him to finish and work as an audiologist for several years before applying. life is a little short for that.

I agree, life is too short, and no one should be miserable doing something that their heart really isn't into, but I stand by my assertion that the OP needs to be able to justify his decision to make the switch.

 

[Sundarban1]

By the way, could you provide support for your assertion that it will not look good on his application? That med schools would prefer for him to do the 3 extra years before applying.

Certainly. When I was a graduate student I realized about half way through that I wanted to become a physician and to do so, I would need to finish a few pre-reqs I had not completed as an undergraduate. Because I was older, I knew time was of the escence and I considered dropping out of my graduate program to start a formal post-bacc ASAP.

I then met with the admissions director of my state medical school, which also had a post bacc program, and asked him what he thought of my decision to leave graduate school. He told me that the admissions committee would look down upon my decision to leave graduate school, unless I had a very good reason. He said that in his opinion there were very few "good" reasons aside from an ailing health condition, or something along those lines. He said otherwise my decision would convey an attitude of uncertainty and non-commitment; two things medical school admissions committees in general are not looking for from perspective medical students.

I took his advice and finished the graduate program, which in retrospect was a very good decision in my opinion. I say this not because of one persons opionion, but because I had the opportunity to attended an open forum with a panel of medical school admissions directors from various colleges (Harvard, UVM, GWU, Dartmouth, etc.) here at Harvard. The topic of graduate school came up, and one student asked what admissions directors would think of his/her decision to leave his/her program. Again the consensus among the medical school admissions directors was that unless there were extenuating circumstances (lack of interest not being one of them) that one should finish their academic responsibilities before moving on.

I'm not disputing the sh*ttyness of the situation, because I was there and had to make the same decision. However if you want to play nicely in the medical school admissions sandbox, you have to play by the rules they give you.

That is why I think the OP should stick it out. He/she could easily call admissions directors directly and ask their opinion. However I suspect he/she will get the same answer. Good luck.

 

[QofQuimica]

Probably not -- it's just conventional SDN wisdom that you should never, ever drop out of a graduate program. The thing is that schools probably don't like you to enroll in a master's program to boost your grades and then drop out after the first year. The op's situation is different.

I don't think that's true. It's not MY opinion, anyway. That being said, OP, it *is* best if you can leave with a degree of some kind. So if you're in an AuD program and you can leave with some kind of MS, that's much better than leaving with nothing. Is there any way that you can get your MS? If you can, that would be the advice I'd give you. Take the next year and get your MS or whatever equivalent they have for your field. Then drop out and do the pre-reqs. If your program doesn't offer a MS-level degree, can you transfer into another program in your department that does? (If they offer PhDs in audiology, they probably do have MSs in audiology too.)

In the meantime, you need to get some clinical experience. Start shadowing doctors, volunteering in hospitals, that kind of thing. Any applicant has to justify why they want to go to med school, but for non-trads, the scrutiny is especially fierce. Plus, this will help you get some idea about whether medicine is really for you. Hope these ideas help, and best of to you.

 

[.edu-MD]

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[MeowMix]

When I applied to med school, I had finished my PhD, done 2 postdocs over 5 years, moved from research science to education in the same field, and worked in education for 5 years.

One of my LOR writers commented that it was a good thing I had finished my PhD, or it would have been very difficult for him to write a favorable letter since I had done several different things (I saw them as all related, but he didn't, and a lot of adcom people wouldn't). I listened to him particularly carefully because he has two brothers who are doctors, including one who is at the very top of his very competitive specialty.

You can do anything you want, and you can probably get into med school somewhere. Just be aware that your decision has some big consequences. For example, how are you going to support yourself and pay your bills while you are doing prereqs?

 

[Law2Doc]

life is a little short for that.

Life goes by at the same rate whatever you are doing, and you shouldn't be putting life "on hold" during work or school anyhow. You still have a life even if you are not on your ultimate track yet.
People "pay their dues" in a variety of ways in most careers, and often go through years they don't particularly enjoy, shooting for the light at the end of the tunnel. If a couple of years of doing what you don't like puts you in a much better position to do what you do like, it might be worth it. Certainly the career changers on SDN coming from other professions seem to have an easier time of it than those who try to make the jump while still in professional school (but that is admittedly anecdotal). Why risk potentially spending years as reapplicants or forced to consider offshore options because of rash decisions and a rush to be on a certain track?

 

[msdaisy]

I was in a PhD program and dropped out after a year due to my interest in pursuing medicine. As a result, I do not feel comfortable asking any of the professors from my graduate program for letters.

Will the lack of letters from graduate school be a red flag for medical school admissions committees? What can I do to minimize the negative impact?

Where can I find a list of schools that require an LOR from your graduate program?

Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Where can I find a list of schools that require an LOR from your graduate program?

I doubt that many schools (if any) will actually require a LOR from your grad program.

But...

Will the lack of letters from graduate school be a red flag for medical school admissions committees?

Yes, I think it will! If you undertook a significant life experience and don't have a strong LOR from it, they'll wonder what went wrong.

What can I do to minimize the negative impact?

Get a letter from your grad program, preferably someone who you had good interactions with. If some time has passed, they might feel more sympathetic to you now compared to when you first dropped out.

As long as they say you're a hard worker and you left in good standing, the letter will have a mostly neutral effect on your admissions chances... but no letter will have a negative effect.

 

[ksn]

Get a letter from your grad program, preferably someone who you had good interactions with. If some time has passed, they might feel more sympathetic to you now compared to when you first dropped out.

As long as they say you're a hard worker and you left in good standing, the letter will have a mostly neutral effect on your admissions chances... but no letter will have a negative effect.

I have the same dilemma but worse, as I left graduate school due to losing touch with my boss' research focus or lack thereof. Recoiling in pessimism and slipping ambitions, I pretty much burned every bridge I had in graduate school and my public image tanked at every turn.

What if I always wanted to be a doctor, but went to graduate school instead because I blindly loved doing any science-related research and hopped on first boat without thought for my future? What if the options after completing the program and getting my doctorate are to be 1) as a wage-slave in the industry or 2) locked within the ivory tower that is the academia writing grants everyday?

I made the wrong decision to go to graduate school, without knowing what I really wanted to do research in and without knowing the PI whom I really wanted to work and learn from. Hence, I loved the school and the people there, but it was really the wrong school and wrong advisor for wrong student vice-versa. Needless to say, though I left in good standing, I wasn't particularly a hard worker but had loafed around for a year visiting counseling many times, thinking of what could have been.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Recoiling in pessimism and slipping ambitions, I pretty much burned every bridge I had in graduate school and my public image tanked at every turn.

If you've truly burned all bridges at your grad school then you have an extra burden when it comes to proving your commitment.

I would try doing two solid years of VERY responsible work somewhere before attempting to apply for med school... you don't want to apply until you're ready, and if you've quit grad school you have major damage to repair.

Then address the elephant in the room head on. Acknowledge that you let other people down, and that you let yourself down because deep down you aren't the type to quit.

Then give admissions committees a real reason to take a chance on you...

Something like "I went into research understanding its end goal but not its process. When I was in graduate school I learned that the process of research does not suit my desire to make immediate, tangible changes for the better. I'm still committed to the end goal of relieving illness, but as I learned more about how healthcare works in our country, and about myself, I realized that I am much more suited for a career providing care directly to the people who need it. As I embark on a career in medicine I know that this time I have made the right choice because of my many years of volunteering in clinics, where every day I enjoy not only the end goal of helping people, but the process of ordering labs, weighing evidence, and getting to know the patients whom we treat."

 

[racataca]

I'm gonna go ahead and hijack this thread now, because I have a similar question.

I lived in Panama for three years, first as a Peace Corps volunteer, and then because I met my (now) husband down there and wanted to stay with him, since he's Panamanian.

In the time that I was there, I enrolled in grad-level classes in marketing and advertising, primarily just to kill time/use Spanish in an advanced academic environment. The program didn't require a certain GPA for admissions, just the ability to pay the tuition.

I took like 8 months worth of classes before we moved back to the United States, and I got a 4.0 in the program, but I'm concerned, reading this thread, that when I hand over those transcripts, people are going to look down upon that.

What do you think, SDN?

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

... I enrolled in grad-level classes in marketing and advertising, primarily just to kill time/use Spanish in an advanced academic environment. The program didn't require a certain GPA for admissions, just the ability to pay the tuition.

I took like 8 months worth of classes before we moved back to the United States, and I got a 4.0 in the program, but I'm concerned, reading this thread, that when I hand over those transcripts, people are going to look down upon that...

It doesn't seem like the same thing. In your case, it sounds like you were merely taking some "grad-level" classes. Lots of schools allow students to take a limited number of classes as a non-degree-seeking student. That's different from being in a genuine grad program. In a genuine grad program there's usually much more than just your classes: You might be doing research with a mentor, you might be working as a TA, you're expected to attend seminars... in short, there are just a lot of other programmatic requirements that make a grad program more than just the required classes that you take. (When I was getting my PhD I probably spent 3+ hours each week doing stuff aside from my coursework and research.)

So in the case of the OP, he/she was enrolled in this Au.D. program where all these other extra-curricular activities were taking place. It required formal admission to the school, probably the GRE or whatever type of Aud-CAT test they've dreamed up, interviews... the whole works.

The reason it looks bad to drop out of this type of program is that it demonstrates that the drop-out in question is possibly a slacker, possibly doesn't give choices full consideration before they are made, and possibly just went to their grad program because they didn't know what else to do after college.

In your case, I think you can head-off the negative vibe by being honest and up-front about your situation. Turn it into a selling point. In your description of this experience, you could write something like:

Working for the Peace Corps was an amazing experience that I put to full use. I even took extra classes in my spare time to practice my Spanish, which will help me as a future physician.​

By phrasing it that way you indicate that you weren't a degree-seeking student. No need to mention that the classes were grad-level in your description (although I think AMCAS will require you to indicate this when you enter the classes online).