Dropping MD/PhD program AFTER starting summer rotations?

[marr5577]

Hey everyone,

I tried searching for the answer to this but I only found 1 similar thread and the question wasn't really addressed to my liking.

I've been really fortunate to have an MD/PhD acceptance (mid-tier non-MSTP program). I am planning on attending this program and lab rotations start early summer. However, I am also on the MD waitlist at a school that I would much rather go to for a variety of reasons, I won't bore you with them, but just know that this is my situation and how I feel.

My specific question is: if I start the lab rotations at the MD/PhD school, can I remain on the MD waitlist? And furthermore, if I do get in off the wailist, can I leave the MD/PhD program, or am I bound to that program after starting rotations??

I know for many programs official matriculation is first day of medical school orientation, so I'm not sure how this would work for me if I get in off the MD waitlist during summertime.

If anyone has any information about this I will be forever grateful! Especially senior students and PDs who frequent this part of the forum.

Thanks again.

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[24thGrade]

I'm pretty sure you beginning your rotations would count as matriculating. And the rules (which it sounds like you might know) are that once that is done you must withdraw yourself from all wait lists. It may vary slightly from school to school but you might make enemies in a relatively small community even if you have found a loophole considering you will leave the MDPhD program with a hole that probably cannot be refilled.
You are in an understandably hard position so I think your best bet is to get in contact with the MD-only program and explain what is going on, that you really want to go there, but have to know by end of may at the latest so that your MDPhD acceptance has time to put in someone new. If you don't feel like that goes anywhere I would probably think hard about if you can actually commit to the MD-PhD and if not talk to the director about changing yourself to an MD only acceptance. Most places won't create too much fuss about this as it is much easier for them to do this now rather than later down the line.

 

[marr5577]

I'm pretty sure you beginning your rotations would count as matriculating. And the rules (which it sounds like you might know) are that once that is done you must withdraw yourself from all wait lists. It may vary slightly from school to school but you might make enemies in a relatively small community even if you have found a loophole considering you will leave the MDPhD program with a hole that probably cannot be refilled.
You are in an understandably hard position so I think your best bet is to get in contact with the MD-only program and explain what is going on, that you really want to go there, but have to know by end of may at the latest so that your MDPhD acceptance has time to put in someone new. If you don't feel like that goes anywhere I would probably think hard about if you can actually commit to the MD-PhD and if not talk to the director about changing yourself to an MD only acceptance. Most places won't create too much fuss about this as it is much easier for them to do this now rather than later down the line.

Thanks a lot for your quick response...unfortunately you gave the answer I was hoping wouldn't be true haha.

I had a gut feeling that summer lab rotations count as matriculating, but I wasn't sure. Do you think this rule is school specific? I couldn't find much about it by just researching it myself, and I don't want to ask my program about it yet so I don't give them a bad impression.

Any other responses are much appreciated.

 

[SBR249]

I've always though summer rotations count as matriculation but can't seem to find any mention on the AAMC traffic rules. I think your best bet is to call up the MD/PhD office and ask what the date of official matriculation is.

 

[24thGrade]

I'm certain it counts as matriculation at my program, however we have classes that begin shortly after arrival.
Perhaps more importantly, the day you show up is basically when you are added to the payroll, insurance etc is provided so I would think they would consider you matriculated. From what I understand, there is no real definition of "matriculation" and I would assume the definition is left to the institutions to decide. If they find you are still on a wait list they will probably be well within their rights to report that you have already matriculated. I wouldn't let such an awkward situation happen if you can avoid it.

 

[marr5577]

Thanks guys.

Interesting note about the payroll. The program that I would go to definitely does not start classes until late summer, only lab rotations. Also, there's a no payback clause if you decide to drop the PhD portion. I'd rather avoid doing that...I just think it's a bit unfair to do that to a program when they are willing to invest so much in me. I should add, if I end up at the MD/PhD program I would stick it out and have no problem with that, I just prefer to go to the MD program for personal reasons.

I think I will try to get in touch with the program but I'll be careful about howI approach it.

If there are any residents or PDs that come across this, I would love to hear your takes.

Thanks again for the help everyone.

 

[URHere]

For what it's worth, I was in a fairly similar situation a few years ago. I held an acceptance to an MD/PhD program that began summer rotations as of June 1st. I was waitlisted at my first choice MD/PhD program.

In my case, everyone I spoke with (staff at various schools) agreed that beginning lab rotations would commit me to the first program. Ultimately, I took an MD-only acceptance to a 3rd school to buy myself some time, and eventually made my way off the waitlist at my first-choice school. I should mention that I withdrew from the first MD/PhD program fairly close to June 1st, and they were not very happy with me (especially the PI I was slated to rotate with). I can only imagine what response I would have gotten if I left the program later.

This situation is rough, and I agree that you should get in touch with your first choice school. Also, if you have any other options with later start dates, they may be worth considering.

 

[K31]

I think I will try to get in touch with the program but I'll be careful about howI approach it.

I'd first get in contact with the scholl where you are on the waitlist and try to get an idea of your chance of getting an offer before contacting the program where you have an aceptance for now.

FWIW, from what I've observed MD/PhD programs really don't blacklist applicants who withdraw soon before classes start--they obviously aren't pleased but they accept it as part of the process. The only time I've seen my program hold a grudge was with someone they accepted who just didn't show up for the start of medical school.

 

[marr5577]

For what it's worth, I was in a fairly similar situation a few years ago. I held an acceptance to an MD/PhD program that began summer rotations as of June 1st. I was waitlisted at my first choice MD/PhD program.

In my case, everyone I spoke with (staff at various schools) agreed that beginning lab rotations would commit me to the first program. Ultimately, I took an MD-only acceptance to a 3rd school to buy myself some time, and eventually made my way off the waitlist at my first-choice school. I should mention that I withdrew from the first MD/PhD program fairly close to June 1st, and they were not very happy with me (especially the PI I was slated to rotate with). I can only imagine what response I would have gotten if I left the program later.

This situation is rough, and I agree that you should get in touch with your first choice school. Also, if you have any other options with later start dates, they may be worth considering.

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like you had almost the same dilemma as I have right now. Unfortunately for me it's either the MD/PhD program or the waitlist MD program at this point.

I did get in touch with the MD program today and they basically gave me a standard response of "we can't accept off the waitlist before May 15th but we'll keep you in mind." I don't know how many people experience this sort of problem, but a quick response (either way) would be awesome.

 

[marr5577]

I'd first get in contact with the scholl where you are on the waitlist and try to get an idea of your chance of getting an offer before contacting the program where you have an aceptance for now.

FWIW, from what I've observed MD/PhD programs really don't blacklist applicants who withdraw soon before classes start--they obviously aren't pleased but they accept it as part of the process. The only time I've seen my program hold a grudge was with someone they accepted who just didn't show up for the start of medical school.

Thanks. Yeah I called and they basically just told me to wait haha. It seems so disrespectful and selfish for someone to withdraw by just not showing up...a courtesy e-mail is not that hard to write. I would be pissed if I was that program too.

 

[Ombret]

Can you get out of the pre-M1 summer research rotation? In my program, this was not required an only a minority did it. This would keep you off their payroll and buy you some time relative to your favored MD program.

As far as your odds of getting off the waitlist, if they are not going to tell you about your chances specifically, can you figure out what their overall waitlist performance is? The Copernican principle would suggest you are in an average position on that list. If they waitlist 300 people and end up taking 1, then they are taking you for the proverbial ride and you might as well pack your bags for MD/PhD.

 

[marr5577]

Can you get out of the pre-M1 summer research rotation? In my program, this was not required an only a minority did it. This would keep you off their payroll and buy you some time relative to your favored MD program.

As far as your odds of getting off the waitlist, if they are not going to tell you about your chances specifically, can you figure out what their overall waitlist performance is? The Copernican principle would suggest you are in an average position on that list. If they waitlist 300 people and end up taking 1, then they are taking you for the proverbial ride and you might as well pack your bags for MD/PhD.

Hey thanks for the suggestion. I got in touch with them and unfortunately we are required to start the rotations summer pre-M1. Was a great idea though.

As far as the waitlist for the MD program...I think they usually end up taking 10-20% of people they waitlist (around 250 students). So the odds are not great, but not abysmal either.

I guess I'll just hope for a quick response around May 15th (although they have been known to accept well into the summer).