Drug talks

[osprey099]

As a fellow, I attended many pharma sponsored drug dinners. A lot of the speakers were academic faculty in the disease-specific field of the drug. However, there were several community oncologists, especially private practice oncologists, who gave these talks. I'm assuming they get paid at least a couple thousand per talk, as several of them were driven from several states away to our area to give the talks.

How do I get involved in this as a private practice doc just starting out? Would it even be possible as I have little experience right now? I noticed a lot of these drug dinners were for nurses/clinical support staff, and few fellows would even show up. I feel like it would be easy to give a pharma talk to nurses, especially with company designed slides and talking points. Thoughts on how I can infiltrate into this space?

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[HemeOncHopeful19]

I would imagine you start by flirting with a drug rep?

 

[RainerMaria]

I think you would just signal to your local rep that you would be interested.

That said I think the DOJ is cracking down on these, so proceed at your own risk, or make sure the contract is clear that it is not in remuneration for or expectation of referrals. Partly why I have not attended these as a guest... That said the examples DOJ highlights are pretty egregious, e.g., strip clubs, and inviting spouses to dinner, etc. I do think that with the knowledge explosion in oncology it's not crazy to think that there is educational value hearing from a KOL or master clinician on how they manage an oncologic specialty.

https://oig.hhs.gov/documents/special-fraud-alerts/865/SpecialFraudAlertSpeakerPrograms.pdf

Scientific advisory boards are another venue to look into

 

[randomhemoncpd]

It's fine. Every pharma company knows all of the rules -- no more alcohol, cost can't be too high, no to-go containers, etc. Make friends with your reps and local MSLs. They will hook you up.

Physicians don't attend. It's not worth their while for an alcohol-free dinner where the cost can't exceed 75-100 dollars or so. These pay 2000-4000.

 

[bobsmith]

If you remember the names of any of the speakers at your talks, you can look up exactly how much they were paid: Home | Open Payments Data - CMS

 

[osprey099]

If you remember the names of any of the speakers at your talks, you can look up exactly how much they were paid: Home | Open Payments Data - CMS

Thanks for the link! Looks like the speakers made around 2-3k per talk. Not a bad side gig at all!

 

[Ubba]

I personally would consider it later on, but am I mistaken in being under the initial impression that the time invested prepping and spent away from clinic basically makes this a financial loser for an oncologist?

 

[gutonc]

I personally would consider it later on, but am I mistaken in being under the initial impression that the time invested prepping and spent away from clinic basically makes this a financial loser for an oncologist?

Not if you're giving a canned talk.

 

[Ubba]

Not if you're giving a canned talk.

That's a good point, but every time our fellowship has one of these speakers, (s)he is grilled by the attendings. Must be pretty embarrassing if the speaker doesn't know anything beyond the slides.

 

[osprey099]

That's a good point, but every time our fellowship has one of these speakers, (s)he is grilled by the attendings. Must be pretty embarrassing if the speaker doesn't know anything beyond the slides.

I've been to approximately 10 of these talks as a fellow, sampling all the high end restaurants in the area. No attendings ever showed up. It was always fellows at most, but the majority of attendees were nurses, nurse coordinators and other ancillary staff.

 

[gutonc]

That's a good point, but every time our fellowship has one of these speakers, (s)he is grilled by the attendings. Must be pretty embarrassing if the speaker doesn't know anything beyond the slides.

We're are discussing 2 different kinds of talks. The ones that pay $2-3K and are dinner meetings given largely to nurses and pharmacists (the topic of this thread), are canned talks created by the drug company's marketing department and come with a script for the speaker to go off of. They are essentially the PowerPoint version of the packets that drug reps drop off in the office. While they'd like experts and KOLs to give these talks, they'll take just about any warm body...I've been asked to be that warm body so I'm well aware of their "standards".

You're talking about experts in the field giving academic talks about their research and area of expertise. I assume that there's some sort of honorarium associate with this, but since I fall squarely in the "warm body" category rather than the "expert" one, I can't say for certain.

 

[solidonc2020]

We're are discussing 2 different kinds of talks. The ones that pay $2-3K and are dinner meetings given largely to nurses and pharmacists (the topic of this thread), are canned talks created by the drug company's marketing department and come with a script for the speaker to go off of. They are essentially the PowerPoint version of the packets that drug reps drop off in the office. While they'd like experts and KOLs to give these talks, they'll take just about any warm body...I've been asked to be that warm body so I'm well aware of their "standards".

You're talking about experts in the field giving academic talks about their research and area of expertise. I assume that there's some sort of honorarium associate with this, but since I fall squarely in the "warm body" category rather than the "expert" one, I can't say for certain.

For the other side of this, I believe KOLs often charge relatively high consulting fees to pharma companies to supplement their otherwise subpar academic salaries. I am not sure what exactly that entails though. I know it's one way academic oncologists can make a reasonably good living, but it's mostly for well-known researchers from top institutions.

 

[randomhemoncpd]

For the other side of this, I believe KOLs often charge relatively high consulting fees to pharma companies to supplement their otherwise subpar academic salaries. I am not sure what exactly that entails though. I know it's one way academic oncologists can make a reasonably good living, but it's mostly for well-known researchers from top institutions.

Consulting rate for subspecialized hem/onc is typically 500-800/hr. You can do one-off calls for this rate (although with the amount of time it takes to set up, etc. it isn't worth as much), but advisory boards which are typically at least 3 hours at this rate and sometimes will reimburse your travel time at the same rate are far more lucrative.

 

[osprey099]

Consulting rate for subspecialized hem/onc is typically 500-800/hr. You can do one-off calls for this rate (although with the amount of time it takes to set up, etc. it isn't worth as much), but advisory boards which are typically at least 3 hours at this rate and sometimes will reimburse your travel time at the same rate are far more lucrative.

How do you get on advisory boards and what does the activity entail? Also, is this only for academics or also open to private practice oncs?

 

[whoknows2012]

I charge $750-1000/hr for my calls and do about 2 per week during busiest time of year (3-4 months out of the year including peri conferences) and 2-3/mo for the other 8-9 months for a total of 60-70 per year.

Colleagues who are on ad boards can make several thousand per ad board they’re on.

I also have colleagues who do private consulting at 1000-1250/hr and have set up their own companies. This can be very lucrative if your “KOL” enough.

Drug talks as are mentioned above, are verboten these days in many academic circles. I don’t mess around with it and things have been messy largely with academic docs and COI so I do my best to steer clear of any action that could be viewed unfavorably. Ad boards, consulting, whether privately or through market research firms, are amongst the best way to make extra bucks and stay above board these days.

 

[whoknows2012]

How do you get on advisory boards and what does the activity entail? Also, is this only for academics or also open to private practice oncs?

Usually get in touch with an MSL of a given company and if you meet their requirements they can connect you. You can also be referred by colleagues or other ad board members