Drug testing for medical schools?

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data-ram

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Has anyone ever heard of a medical school that required students to be drug tested?

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data-ram said:
Has anyone ever heard of a medical school that required students to be drug tested?


Yes, there are schools that require you to take a drug test prior to classes....the only one i remember off the top of my head is mount sinai, but i'm positive that there are more schools.

Whatever you partake in, just cut it short 1-1.5 month before class so you dont get caught. Other than that, just reconsider that you may not be able to do whatever drug of choice everyday in med school...or however habitual you may be.
 
Many (most) schools require drug tests before you enter clinics...simple urine test at end of second year. Even nursing student must go through this...I believe it is a requirement by most state governments.

But, I don't know of any that require testing before matriculation. But, its possible.
 
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med2008 said:
Many (most) schools require drug tests before you enter clinics...simple urine test at end of second year. Even nursing student must go through this...I believe it is a requirement by most state governments.

But, I don't know of any that require testing before matriculation. But, its possible.


Im calling SHENANIGANS. I was at 4 med schools, have worked and taught at 3 other huge medical centers and NEVER EVER EVER heard of MDs getting drug tested, not even when they showed up obviously baked out of their mind reaking of Caribbean ganja. There is NO state testing for license I have ever heard of certainly not in CA MO MA FL or OR. I have known docs with HUGE epic nasty coke habits, weed addictions etc and they are go out about their merry way without a second thought. Stop scaring people, no no there are no WMDs in my underwear!!

SHEESH.
 
I had to get drug tested before I started my residency at Duke. I will have to get drug tested before I start my new residency in Lansing, Michigan (Emergency Medicine, baby!). I had a drug test before I started medical school at LSU.

You decide if you want to risk it.
 
OSU just implemented a drug testing policy. They will test incoming 1st years 3rd years starting now. Unfortunately, the bastards are making us pay for the tests....
 
logos said:
Unfortunately, the bastards are making us pay for the tests....

Yeah, what is up with that? I thought they would at least be crafty about the charge and surreptitiously add it to our fees. :p
 
Panda Bear said:
I will have to get drug tested before I start my new residency in Lansing, Michigan (Emergency Medicine, baby!). QUOTE]

Congrats!!! EM is what I'm hoping to do eventually, but I'm just entering M1 in August, so it's a ways off for me yet. But good for you! I wish you all the best :)
 
Panda Bear said:
I had to get drug tested before I started my residency at Duke. I will have to get drug tested before I start my new residency in Lansing, Michigan (Emergency Medicine, baby!). I had a drug test before I started medical school at LSU.

You decide if you want to risk it.

Wellll, nothing in Cali..if they did I fear a significant number of academic openings in most medical schools might suddenly appear..........
 
Yeah like that neurosurgeon who scrubbed in drunker than the Bush twins and then proceeded to get violent.
 
Miami doesn't drug test us - however I am being drug tested for a summer research fellowship I'm doing.
 
shiraz84 said:
Yeah, what is up with that? I thought they would at least be crafty about the charge and surreptitiously add it to our fees. :p

Yeah ...who knows...that whole thing just kinda came out of the blue. I'm not aware of anything that would have precipitated the change. It just seems kinda rediculus to have the medical school, which has two of its own hospitals, not be able to provide a free tox screen...probably costs them cents on the dollar to do. But, no big deal, just kinda strange and out of character.
 
logos said:
Yeah ...who knows...that whole thing just kinda came out of the blue. I'm not aware of anything that would have precipitated the change. It just seems kinda rediculus to have the medical school, which has two of its own hospitals, not be able to provide a free tox screen...probably costs them cents on the dollar to do. But, no big deal, just kinda strange and out of character.
If they're having a third party do the drug testing it may just be so no one can say the school was out to get them if they fail.
 
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zek said:
If they're having a third party do the drug testing it may just be so no one can say the school was out to get them if they fail.

Yeah...most probably. I think the labs that do formal drug testing are rather different than those that do drug testing for medical purposes.
 
WashU requires drug testing for incoming first years.
 
logos said:
Yeah...most probably. I think the labs that do formal drug testing are rather different than those that do drug testing for medical purposes.

According to the policy: "All testing will be done at or through the OSU Reference Lab (URL) or Student Health Center (SHC). If “for cause” testing must be done when URL(SHC) staff are not available, testing must be done through the OSU Emergency Department."

and "The student may request to have independent testing done at a different lab. URL(SHC) staff will send a portion of the original sample to the independent lab in order to preserve the chain of custody. If independent testing is requested by the individual being tested, the individual will be responsible for any and all costs of the independent testing. "

So, yeah, given the fact that they are doing their own testing, you would think that they could make it cost less. It's $25 if you don't have student health insurance.

I guess the thing that bothers me most about not only this policy but all the health requirements in general is that if we were EMPLOYED by the university and not students, they would be required to pay the costs of the immunizations, screenings, etc. Every employer that I've worked for that had drug screening, immunization or TB testing required was responsible for paying the costs. What sucks even more is that all of these health requirements are not included in our financial aid budget and are not covered by most insurance plans (Even with the student health plan, you're still out some $$$$)

And LADoc - drug testing (especially pre-employment) is becoming more and more common. It wouldn't surprise me if its required for licensing at some point in the future.
 
This makes me wonder, what are the consequences for failing? Do they kick you out of school or... ?

Drug testing before the clinical years makes a lot more sense to me. Who cares if you want to get stoned for a coupld of years while you study? Good luck with that. :p
 
BooMed said:
This makes me wonder, what are the consequences for failing? Do they kick you out of school or... ?

Drug testing before the clinical years makes a lot more sense to me. Who cares if you want to get stoned for a coupld of years while you study? Good luck with that. :p

It could affect your licensing. The school would probably force you into a rehab program so you don't get in trouble from the non medical world. A conviction for a drug offense really screws you over in the process of becoming a doc.
 
Sinai requires it for incoming students.

They pay for it through Quest Diagnostics, and if you fail the results will be "confirmed by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry at a SAMSHA Certified laboratory."

and if the positive test is confirmed and "there is no apprpriate medical reason for your positive test, you will be ineligible to register as a medical student ... "
 
I thought I read somewhere that schools that worked with VA programs had to have it, or at least the students who worked at the VA did. I may be starting a crazy rumor though.
 
unc doesn't but we were warned that when we do rotations at a hospital in charlotte that they will. it was pretty funny cause they were warning us at a lecture on substance abuse and repeated it a few times that you need a few weeeks to clear pot from your system. :rolleyes: i thought it was hysterical.
 
Wrigleyville said:
I thought I read somewhere that schools that worked with VA programs had to have it, or at least the students who worked at the VA did. I may be starting a crazy rumor though.
I'm doing research at a VA facility this summer (not even working for the VA, just in their building) and had to fill out FBI background check paperwork. So far, no drug test, but the application asked if I had used any illicit drugs in the past year. More significant in some ways than a urine screen, since it would be pretty dumb to lie on the thing and it goes back a whole year.
 
BooMed said:
This makes me wonder, what are the consequences for failing? Do they kick you out of school or... ?

Well I would certainly hope that they would let you do the counciling/rehab thing if you were already in school for awhile. Afterall we did have two (i even went to one of 'em because they hyped it so much beforehand) 2 hour lectures about addiction and how "its a disease" blah blah... so on and so on... in our "Patient Centered Medicine" class. Which would be a fair response. There is a specific organization in ohio that treats impaired physicians/medical student whos program I suspect they would require you to complete.

I'm sure it says in the policy....but i'm not going to look it up...dosent concern me and I have no idea where that policy email went...

I suspect that if a first year were positive at the beginning of the year they would get the boot. Once the year starts, they dont kick people out unless you do something really egregious. Instead they put you on a "temporary" suspension (thats not what they call it??....leave of absence maybe...something like that...its basically a suspension) that you just so happen to never return from...because you need their permission to return...
 
data-ram said:
Has anyone ever heard of a medical school that required students to be drug tested?

And why would that pose a problem?

Seriously, virtually everyone that works as a paid employee in a hospital, from the janitors and cafeteria personnel, gets drug tested these days. Why should you be any different?

If you expect to have a career in health care, you have to expect to follow certain rules in your private life. It is the sacrifice that you make for the career choice.
 
caroladybelle said:
And why would that pose a problem?

Seriously, virtually everyone that works as a paid employee in a hospital, from the janitors and cafeteria personnel, gets drug tested these days. Why should you be any different?

If you expect to have a career in health care, you have to expect to follow certain rules in your private life. It is the sacrifice that you make for the career choice.

It poses a problem because it is an unreasonable and unnecessary intrusion into my privacy. It is no more reasonable than the school deciding to anally probe everyone before 3rd year.

We should be different because we are paying to go to school. We should be different because we are not hospital employees like the janitors. But most of all, we should be afforded respect and be trusted by our institution. As future physicians they should take our word.

Intruding into someones privacy is something that should be justified. While I admit that we make certain sacrifices with our career choice, such as long hours, privacy and bodily fluids are not something one one should have to give up for a career. They certainly werent sacrifices I expected when I signed up.

Fundamentally, its rediculus. But alas, I lack the balls and the will to try to get it changed. Its simply easier to take their degrading test like a common criminal and then try to forget about it.

On the bright side...one test in medical school ...then probably one for residency and i'll never have to do it again.
 
logos said:
It poses a problem because it is an unreasonable and unnecessary intrusion into my privacy. It is no more reasonable than the school deciding to anally probe everyone before 3rd year.

We should be different because we are paying to go to school. We should be different because we are not hospital employees like the janitors. But most of all, we should be afforded respect and be trusted by our institution. As future physicians they should take our word.

Intruding into someones privacy is something that should be justified. While I admit that we make certain sacrifices with our career choice, such as long hours, privacy and bodily fluids are not something one one should have to give up for a career. They certainly werent sacrifices I expected when I signed up.

Fundamentally, its rediculus. But alas, I lack the balls and the will to try to get it changed. Its simply easier to take their degrading test like a common criminal and then try to forget about it.

On the bright side...one test in medical school ...then probably one for residency and i'll never have to do it again.
Keep in mind that I bear you know ill will. With that said, your argument is absurd.

Unreasonable and unnecessary intrusion? So it is unreasonable to think that doctors might have the same substance abuse problems that "normal" people do? Heck, that surprises me: I thought substance abuse was one of the top reasons for suspension or revocation of a medical license. Oh, and unnecessary? That must be because people baked out of their mind or wasted make great decisions for their patients, which may include whether or not they die. That's almost as bad as comparing an anal probe to a urine or blood test - just like we'd all choose a heart transplant rather than taking a pill every day.

As for the comment about janitors, just who do you think is in greater risk of substance abuse? The guy who can get meds at will or the guy make 8 bucks an hour? Oh, and would you rather have your surgeon wasted or the guy sweeping your room?

My favorite is that you think someone's word is enough to secure their good behavior; if that was the case, we wouldn't have malpractice investigations (not all of which are spurious).

Face it: physicians are given plenty of authority and responsibility already. People with an addiction are sick and need help; better by far that [the general] you get that help in medical school than after you kill a patient.
 
My residency in Massachusetts drug tested everyone before we could start. Several people there said they were tested in medical school too.
 
grogdamighty said:
Keep in mind that I bear you know ill will. With that said, your argument is absurd.

Unreasonable and unnecessary intrusion? So it is unreasonable to think that doctors might have the same substance abuse problems that "normal" people do? Heck, that surprises me: I thought substance abuse was one of the top reasons for suspension or revocation of a medical license. Oh, and unnecessary? That must be because people baked out of their mind or wasted make great decisions for their patients, which may include whether or not they die. That's almost as bad as comparing an anal probe to a urine or blood test - just like we'd all choose a heart transplant rather than taking a pill every day.

As for the comment about janitors, just who do you think is in greater risk of substance abuse? The guy who can get meds at will or the guy make 8 bucks an hour? Oh, and would you rather have your surgeon wasted or the guy sweeping your room?

My favorite is that you think someone's word is enough to secure their good behavior; if that was the case, we wouldn't have malpractice investigations (not all of which are spurious).

Face it: physicians are given plenty of authority and responsibility already. People with an addiction are sick and need help; better by far that [the general] you get that help in medical school than after you kill a patient.

I think a fair amount of people might agree that forced drug testing is a bit intrusive to their privacy. Your argument seems to be coming from the mindset that random testing is great because it will catch the constantly "wasted" physicians that pilfer meds (or just get them the old fashioned way) and put patients and themselves in multiple types of danger. Those guys/gals should get busted and deserve the repercussions. I just think you seemed to gravitate toward an argument based on extreme examples that play on fear instead of looking at the issue from the perspective of someone who does not use or condone substance abuse but does take issue with the privacy concerns raised by drug testing.

More food for thought. Physicians are a smart and savvy bunch with an uncanny ability for rationalization and an amazing talent for being able to hide their problems. I highly doubt that occasional drug testing before starting school/rotations/internship would really deter substance abuse to a truly significant degree.
 
LADoc00 said:
Im calling SHENANIGANS. I was at 4 med schools, have worked and taught at 3 other huge medical centers and NEVER EVER EVER heard of MDs getting drug tested, not even when they showed up obviously baked out of their mind reaking of Caribbean ganja. There is NO state testing for license I have ever heard of certainly not in CA MO MA FL or OR. I have known docs with HUGE epic nasty coke habits, weed addictions etc and they are go out about their merry way without a second thought. Stop scaring people, no no there are no WMDs in my underwear!!

SHEESH.

I love this...Have at it and do whatever drugs you want kind of post. lol I don't know either way but now I am kind of frightened of whether my doctor has a "HUGE epic nasty coke habit"....Oh well I am going to smoke up now and maybe watch trainspotting.
 
MossPoh said:
I love this...Have at it and do whatever drugs you want kind of post. lol I don't know either way but now I am kind of frightened of whether my doctor has a "HUGE epic nasty coke habit"....Oh well I am going to smoke up now and maybe watch trainspotting.


I don't know what people do in the privacy of their own homes but I have never seen a doctor either here or at LSU in any way overtly impaired, reeking of ganja, or in any other way acting like anything other than their usual nerdy selves.
 
I really haven't either....well besides the ones that I think are just naturally like that....or smoked themselves stupid a while ago.
 
so just curious, what do you all think? Would the schools use a urine test or hair test?
 
gimmeabreak said:
so just curious, what do you all think? Would the schools use a urine test or hair test?

Wash U does a saliva/cheek-swab test.
 
MossPoh said:
I love this...Have at it and do whatever drugs you want kind of post. lol I don't know either way but now I am kind of frightened of whether my doctor has a "HUGE epic nasty coke habit"....Oh well I am going to smoke up now and maybe watch trainspotting.

Can I join? That's a good movie!

I just started a job at Texas Health Resources and they drug tested me before I could begin for the top 10 drugs. I guess it is pretty common practice these days.
 
theaggie07 said:
Can I join? That's a good movie!

I just started a job at Texas Health Resources and they drug tested me before I could begin for the top 10 drugs. I guess it is pretty common practice these days.

I can't imagine that getting high is good for your studies. If, as a university, I'm investing some relavent amount of money in medical students I'd like them to remember the info when they graduate. That being said there's plenty of info for "passing" these tests. WARNING to UNC STUDENTS: the hospital just got a new mass spect in which can measure 20ng/mL instead of the old 50-100ng/mL. So pull out the pharmo books and figure out how long you can do your thing before drying out.
Oh and the REASON they don't test anyone in FL or CA is that if they did they could never fill a class.
 
And make sure you haven't taken any pseudoephedrine. It shows up as a positive amphetamine test on our ghetto drug tests. Some other fun false-positives we've had:

THC + for someone who was on a huge amount of ibuprofen after workig out too hard.
Cocaine + for someone who was taking Augmentin for strept throat.
 
ixitixl said:
And make sure you haven't taken any pseudoephedrine. It shows up as a positive amphetamine test on our ghetto drug tests. Some other fun false-positives we've had:

THC + for someone who was on a huge amount of ibuprofen after workig out too hard.
Cocaine + for someone who was taking Augmentin for strept throat.
Hahaha just like listerine makes you fail the breathalyzer (sp?).
 
Jedix123 said:
Hahaha just like listerine makes you fail the breathalyzer (sp?).
if your using that much mouth wash you probably shouldn't be driving

One idea though: If you lived 800 years ago in South America and had to hunt to live, one hunt you hadn't eaten in two days and then found a cow or elk or whatever they have there, you wouldn't quit the hunt to chew on some coca leaves.
Then why in the F***ing world would through away 4 years in this admissions crap shoot for a buzz.
Grow up and save it for Amsterdam.

Now I'm going to go drink 4 gallons of water... :thumbup:
 
You can order coca tea from Inka Teas ltd. although I'm not sure if it's legal in the US (it's a regular grocery product throughout S. America). If you want a lot of caffeine, you can brew a nice, strong mug of yerba mate although it's definitely an acquired taste.
 
First and second year med students don't get tested at most schools because they have very little patient contact. At the begining of 3rd year, I think it is important that you clean up your act and put away the habits. If possible, try to do it earlier.

My own poor decisions have shed light on this topic.. Experience is a valuable tool. But no one wants their doc to be stoned/geeked on some drug. I know a lot of folks who function quite well while buzzed, but regardless it's just not part of this profession.
 
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