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Drug Testing
- Thread starter psi169
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I'd hope there is. I don't want anyone working in my mouth when they're hopped up on goofballs.
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No more lemon poppy seed muffins....:cry:.
On a more serious note, I would think it would be perfectly fine for schools to subject everyone to an initial drug test and more tests if a person has had a past situation (if that person would even get in).
Also backgrounds check are done by most if not all schools before you matriculate.
Anyway if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about.
On a more serious note, I would think it would be perfectly fine for schools to subject everyone to an initial drug test and more tests if a person has had a past situation (if that person would even get in).
Also backgrounds check are done by most if not all schools before you matriculate.
Anyway if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about.
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Yeah all of that sounds plausible and understandable. Im sure they dont want to let in felons or people hopped up on goofballs as sarah_bellum has stated. LOL. Doesnt Frank from sunny in philly call them goofballs and snortzkies?
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Lucky for you, when you study pharmacology you will learn just how long each drug is in your system and how it is detected. In case you need to alter your behaviors once a year.
mind telling us what school this is?
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How is that really doping? Its not like they're taking hGH to get smart, its just a stimulant thats being abused. Its not making you smart.
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But is what someone does in the privacy of their own home any business of ours, so long as it doesn't affect their work?
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Well, doping is using a substance to enhance performance. So using adderall could be classified as such especially if a person doesn't have ADHD.
You sound like A-Rod this summer.... it was just a stimulant....wasn't making me a better hitter.... I could just pump iron and have batting practice constantly and then be fresh throughout the entire season. No biggie though.
A little stretch I would agree, but adderall is a stimulant that would allow a normally healthy person to get so much more productive studying in and therefore increase performance.
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You are right, smart pill does not make you smart, but rather it's a lay term for psychostimulents.
It's a double barrel question you are asking: First, "doping" is a correct term to denote an abuse of drugs to enhance performance, i.e., cognitive abilities in this case. Second, regardless of whether the drug can have a permanent effect, the use of psychostimulants is considered as doping; for example, amphetamine, an ingredient in addrell, is banned in the olympics.
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To me, drugs are still drugs. Dental students should probably avoid felonies, regardless of where they are. Just my opinion.
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This isn't necessarily true. I just read in Scientific America that adderall/ritalin can help you study monotonous material more effectively. It has also been shown to improve study skills and memorization when you are fatigued.
That's why I think it's wrong and it is cheating to use them... besides the fact that it's illegal.
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What people do at home is of their own business, but...
name one drug that if used over a period of time will not affect a person in several (if not many or all) aspects of their life?
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I wouldn't mind taking a drug test because I have nothing to hide, but more than one (or once a year as the OP stated) just seems like it would be more of an inconvenience, if anything.
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I don't believe that's the point armorshell is trying to make. He is arguing for an individual's right to privacy, which is a valid concern no matter what your occupation.
And he already qualified that statement with "so long as it doesn't affect their work."
N
NAVY DDS 2010
Yes, there are always going to be those people who bitch and moan about their privacy is being violated when they are forced to take a drug test. But really, what is the big deal especailly when you have nothing to hide? I have been tested so many times over the years in both civilian jobs and in the military. If I am asked to do it, I have no problem flicking my ===> out and relieving myself. I have absolutely nothing to hide. I have been tested twice since starting dental school. Whoopie!! It is no big deal. Personally, I feel it should be a mandatory thing for the entire profession and ALL health care professions where they are in contact with any patients. I personally wouldn't want a healthcare provider strung out on drugs that could potentially alter their thought processes and place me in danger.
N
NAVY DDS 2010
What about a patient's right to know that their healthcare provider doesn't practice while using narcotics that could alter their thought processes? To me, that is more important than the right to privacy. If you don't agree, then answer this. Would you want a healthcare provider working on you in a manner that if he makes a wrong decision due to the use of narcotics or other mind altering drug it could debilitate you or even kill you? I think it is every patient's right to know their health care provider is clean! if they aren't, then they need to have their licenses suspended or revoked!
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Of course not, but you're making the false assumption that a single drug test performed once a year will keep the seemingly endless legions of druggie healthcare providers from killing patients.
What if the physician decides to go ahead and start up that meth habit the day after the drug test?
Maybe he really likes what crack could do for his work ethic and wants to jumpstart his practice?
Or maybe they just stop doing said drug for that month surrounding the drug test?
Are they gonna ask for a piss test or a blood draw every time they walk through the doors?
And I would love to see the numbers, but I would bet most of the drug problems healthcare providers have are based around alcohol, a legal drug.
I don't disagree with the idea behind it, you'd have to be an idiot not to want to keep drugged up providers from causing harm to patients, I just don't know how successful it is in actually weeding 🙂laugh🙂 out drug users (normally you hear about it after the act is committed or it was for something like a trace of marijuana), and therefore what is it's purpose other than to be a pain in my ass and an encroachment into my privacy.
I'm just trying to point out the holes in that logic, and question if giving up our right to privacy is really doing anything to better a serious situation.
It seems more like a way for a university, hospital, organization or whatever to absolve itself of all responsibility (and therefore litigation) should a physician/dentist/nurse or whoever actually need help for their drug-related issues. Now, instead of being watchful in making sure their providers are competent in the workplace and not suffering from substance abuse problems in the future, when the lawyers come screeching out of their caves, they can just point at their drug testing policy and say, "Meh, wasn't our fault, it was that guy" and make a run for it.
As I've always said (not really), if you're gonna bitch and moan about something, an individual's rights would be a pretty good place to start. 😉
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And I wanted to address this specifically. I've already talked about the flaws in the idea that drug testing is some panacea of provider related issues.
My issue with this line of thinking in bold, is where is the line drawn. So far it seems to be an arbitrary one with few benefits and a very small percentage of success in removing substance abusers.
If you really wanted to make sure your provider isn't using something that would affect their peformance, maybe the patient should hang out with their provider for the 24 hours leading up to the procedure. They could have a sleepover and he could ride with the dentist to the office in the morning.
I mean really, if you wanted to make 100% sure, isn't that about the only way?
And if were not shooting for 100%, then what's acceptable? Who decides?
Again, I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, just trying to bring up issues with the thought process of "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind mind giving up your rights and by the way, stop bitching" because it's a dangerous road to go down.
The current solution seems to be all about the idea of "good enough," good enough to protect from lawsuits, good enough to make us feel safer, but not really good enough to protect us in any real, meaningful way.
Less money wasted on drug testing and more money spent on teaching people to recognize symptoms of substance abuse and how to help those people would be a much better allocation of funding imo.
Plus you wouldn't have to worry about piss splashing up on your hand.
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Dental schools drug test?! Oh crap...
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Caffeine? Thats the worst drug of them all. It is the BIGGEST PERFORMANCE ENHANCER! Its just so unfair, half the kids in my 8am Biochem class were doped up on caffeine every morning so they were able to focus ALOT better, that is obviously type I doping....I petition for drug testing especially aiming at caffeine..
Wake Up people, were living in a drug infested, caffeine abusing pre-dent society...
I despise these pre-health crackheads and methheads that can keep a good enough gpa to get into professional school, because there are just soo many of them!!
😀
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I was speaking of illegal substances.
So do dental schools drug test or no? I'm of the mind that it's a violation of privacy but also get the argument of drugs potentially affecting patient care although I find that argument a little thin. The problem is that drug tests are easily passed by those that have enough intelligence to do so. Additionally and unfortunately, there are double standards flooding this entire debate as 'legal' drugs are considered unimportant and what constitutes legal is mostly precedence which is by its very nature outdated.
Maybe I'm too new age but what I see happen to alcoholic friends, for instance, shows alcohol as a far more destructive drug than someone that smokes a joint now and then. To me, drug tests are simply an irritation like walking through the security checkpoints at airports. They both don't really do anything but it shows that the company/government is doing "all it can" (which is also very debatable) to avoid litigation. I am of the mind of the last poster that suggested education for better identification of abuse because that is really where the argument for better patient care comes into play.
Abuse equals deterioration of self, family, relationships and in this case, work quality. I think that abuse should be the focus and not whether or not someone passes as a momentary clean when they are merely compared to a sample list of potentially damaging or simply "illegal" substances and then left alone. Additionally, once you begin practicing, drug testing becomes a thing of the past.
Maybe I'm too new age but what I see happen to alcoholic friends, for instance, shows alcohol as a far more destructive drug than someone that smokes a joint now and then. To me, drug tests are simply an irritation like walking through the security checkpoints at airports. They both don't really do anything but it shows that the company/government is doing "all it can" (which is also very debatable) to avoid litigation. I am of the mind of the last poster that suggested education for better identification of abuse because that is really where the argument for better patient care comes into play.
Abuse equals deterioration of self, family, relationships and in this case, work quality. I think that abuse should be the focus and not whether or not someone passes as a momentary clean when they are merely compared to a sample list of potentially damaging or simply "illegal" substances and then left alone. Additionally, once you begin practicing, drug testing becomes a thing of the past.
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So let me get this straight, not only is it the dental school's job to educate and teach you how to become a dentist, but they're also supposed to identify their drug abusers solely by observation and then clean those specific students up?
Of course what they're doing is just "good enough". They're not a drug rehab program.
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If a dental school can't tell if someone is abusing drugs by observation alone, then I ask again, why does it matter?
If the work, the motivation, the patient care isn't affected, then why is it a problem from the school's point of view. Or the patient's for that matter?
Just a note for the curious out there. I don't use any form of illegal drugs, and I have no plans of doing so in the future. My arguments come from personal ethics and morality, not experience.
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And I'll refer back to what I posted earlier. The plain and simple fact that it is illegal should be enough.
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I agree with alanan84. It seems like people constantly try to justify doing something illegal by saying it doesn't affect anything or anybody else and that it is nobody's business. Being a good citizen should be a part of everyone's personal morality so that the fact that it is illegal should be enough.
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Is it a justification or a political philosophy?
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, etc... All lawbreakers, and according to you, amoral? There was a time when interracial marriage was illegal, so it follows that anyone who took part in an interracial marriage was morally corrupt? How about Nelson Mandela? Sorry to be dramatic, but you get the idea.
Not to claim that the majority of drug users are political heroes or revolutionaries, or even that personal drug use isn't harmful to others (For example, it supports a thriving, murderous black market). But my point is that just because something is currently against the law doesn't de facto mean that it's right.
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So is anyone who breaks a law excluded from getting a DDS? I got a parking ticket this morning...do I have to turn in my loupes? What level of offense requires you to give it all up? Anything? Any misdemeanor? Certain misdemeanors?
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If what we discuss doesn't matter, why don't you ask the dental schools?
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That's not up to me to decide.
From UTDB's website:
All students enrolled in the Dental Branch are required to disclose to the Associate Dean of Student Affairs, within 30 days of occurrence, any arrest for any misdemeanor or felony offense (excluding Class C misdemeanor traffic violations), and are required to disclose any conviction, including any deferrals of adjudication, including probation or community supervision (other than Class C misdemeanor traffic violations) for any misdemeanor or felony offense. Non-disclosure or falsification of information may be grounds for dismissal from the School. The Associate Dean of Admission will then determine whether any arrest, and/or conviction or deferral of adjudication is grounds for any action. Any dismissal or other action may be appealed to the Dean of the Dental Branch in writing within seven working days of the receipt of the decision by the Associate Dean of Student Affairs
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Can I get a list of all the dental schools that drug test.
Also, does anyone know any websites where you can get info on how what foods/medicine to take so that drugs don't show up on a hypothetical test. Just curious.
Also, does anyone know any websites where you can get info on how what foods/medicine to take so that drugs don't show up on a hypothetical test. Just curious.
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you said it yourself... dental school is not a rehab program. why should they care if you're doing illegal drugs that may alter performance vs. legal ones such as alcohol, legal highs and other "drugs" of the sort.
Your "logic" against armorshell is ridiculous.
Legal drugs have just as great a chance (if not greater) of altering student performance as the illegal ones.
the school's job isn't to micromanage the lives of its students. plain and simple.
if they want to get rid of students who aren't keeping up... well then that's what grades are for.
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Good luck arguing to the police when you're getting thrown in jail for possession that you're not doing anything worse then sniffing glue.
Listen, my viewpoint is different than yall's. I got a drug test as a 15 year old when I started my first job sacking groceries. I didn't view it as an invasion of privacy then and I certainly wouldn't if they tested me for dental school. If they don't want someone hopped up on drugs sacking groceries, then it doesn't surprise me that they don't want it in dental school.
If it's such a big deal and they make you do it, go whine to the Dean.
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Sniffing glue is worse FOR YOU than most illegal drugs... and will be hurt performance more than marijuana or something similar. Which is my point. Regardless of what a cop says, nobody who knows anything about drug use would argue differently. So again, I don't follow your logic.
drug testing for a job is a far cry from doing it for schooling... you get paid for one position and pay for the other. In other words, a job wants the most out of you and you want the most out of a school. Drug testing professors would be the equivilent of drug testing at a job.
dental schools DON'T require drug tests (that I have ever heard of), so I wouldn't be whining to anyone... and if they did, I would take it no questions asked. I also don't consider it an invasion of privacy... I'm simply suprised that you seem to think it should be required.
Regardless, I see where you are coming from... so I'll agree to disagree.
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in canada all you get is a ticket for possession of marijuana (decriminalized)...
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I heard dental schools started drug testing after 2009
