Dui
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So, based on this thread and a past thread that you started....
- You're an IMG...
- you failed Step 1 *twice* and barely passed (187) the third time...
- you mostly Ds & Cs during the first two years...
- and you have a DUI?
I can't say for sure if the DUI by itself would preclude you from getting into a residency, but all of them taken together....it's kind of a bleak picture. 🙁
Residency programs will look at all these factors together and must consider what is best for their program. It actually looks bad and/or hurts the program to graduate someone that can not get fully licensed and/or get board certified. A significant past failure rate on USMLE combined with poor medical school grades is very suggestive an individual may not pass their final USMLE and may not pass their boards. This would make such an individual a high risk bet. It also raises flags of competence and medical legal risk....
I must concur that the described scenario is somewhat bleak.... from two perspectives.
1. aside from IMG, everything else suggests very poor decisions and judgement.
2. DUI by itself can cause significant difficulties in the licensing arena and can therefore cause great difficulties getting you started in a training program. I have seen individuals get a DUI/DWI, from celebrating after match day, have great difficulty getting licensed on time to start their residency... and they were domestic grads.
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you are right, i look shady to any pd.
however, i did aight on step 2 and i'm trying to take step 3 soon...so lets scratch the i look sh*tty on paper stuff and say i do get in somewhere...now it just turns into a state/training liscense thing.
what's the state gonna say...no? just cause i had a friggin dui three years ago. it seems a little strict to me or am i out to lunch?
however, i did aight on step 2 and i'm trying to take step 3 soon...so lets scratch the i look sh*tty on paper stuff and say i do get in somewhere...now it just turns into a state/training liscense thing.
what's the state gonna say...no? just cause i had a friggin dui three years ago. it seems a little strict to me or am i out to lunch?
I guess you are fishing for a fight.... "so lets scratch the i look sh*tty on paper stuff ". Then what's the point of the question (rhetorical).
As to the DUI alone, yes, med boards look very seriously at this. Most, if not all, will approve your license after some drawn out process. The license itself is not so much the issue per se as the delay the licensing process can pose to your residency program.
While you may have passed step 2 (not sure how taking step 3 without residency), your overall picture still looks bad. Statistically you don't look anywhere close to a good investment by a program. There are far to many applicants reasonably better on paper. Further, far to many that do not have a DUI/DWI. Again, you may have passed your USMLE. But, the over all picture does not read like someone with just one or two mistakes and a major life change/turn around. The description is of serially poor performance and/or poor judgement.
I am a believer that individuals can over come almost any failure. But, in general, one must have a realistic understanding of what they are facing. The description I am reading is one of repeated poor performance capped with the brass ring DUI.
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A past DUI will not keep you from getting licensed. Not admitting to a DUI properly or by mistake causes more problems and may cause you to have to explain it before your state medical board but still likely not cause significant problems with getting a license although a hassle. Lot's of people including drs, congressmen and other high profile people don't have spotless records likely including some of those with high handed replies in this thread.
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Uh... no is damn right. The state board owes you nothing. The state board's obligation is towards protecting the public & they will give you, at best, a world of trouble with paperwork. You are obligated under law to disclose your DUI & every step along the way will be hassles. At worst they will outright deny you. And IF they (choose to) deny you a license, you will be forever be obligated under every single application for license, malpractice, privileging, & insurance credentialling to justify why you were denied in any other state you wish to move to..
By all accounts from everything I've read & from people who have appeared in front of the board to defend themselves, the state boards will go out of their way to appear (more than) holier than thou.
If you obtain a copy of your state boards' license revocation notice which they are obligated to report under public record, a super majority of cases of licenses yanked are due to substance abuse (alcohol, drugs, Rx) & improprieties with patients.
And, when people say license, that includes your training license (like, so you can see patients day #1 as an intern)... Residency's requirements are for you to have the ability to obtain a license & if you can't obtain a training license, you're screwed.
And, your criminal background check will light up pre-orientation when the hospital is trying to grant you training privileges.
There is no assuming-once-you-get-into-residency-it's-just-a-state-board-license thing.
There's little you can assume because medicine is a profession that governs itself & there will be fellow doctors who will do everything they can to separate themselves from you. I hope not. Because I think everyone screws up & deserves a couple of chances. But it doesn't matter what I think.
My best wishes.
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I must agree with LowBudget's reply and somewhat disagree with MedicineDoc.
Our replies, at least speaking for myself is NOT about a holier than thou attitude. That will be left for the PD and state licensing board. The replies are to provide you our perspective based on experience actually being licensed and actually knowing individuals that have gone through this process with DUI/DWI. It is no small matter. It is NOT relevant as to what other famous person or elected official has had a DUI/DWI because the board is not being asked to license them. I encourage you to check online and review some of the state medical licensing application questions. You may get a sensefeeling of the undertone. Yes, you can as many before you have gotten a medical trainee license with prior DUI. But, everyone I know that has had a DUI/DWI has been required to undergo a prolonged application process to include written explanation as to why they got a DUI/DWI (I know some states will even require you to explain regular traffic tickets without DUI!).
Now, the added bonus.... state licensing boards will also look at your application in full. Individuals without DUI/DWI that have failed USMLE are also asked in some states to explain this poor performance. They will ~waive/approve someone with a DUI/DWI more readily if they have an otherwise good/excellent appearance on paper. The process for IMG licensing can be more complicated then a domestic grad.... Thus, you will have to explain to the med-board:
1. maybe that your medical school was adequate (depending on which you attended)
2. why you are competent with marginal grades/medical school performance. Remember, the first two years are generally more objectively graded assessment of your fund of knowledge then the subsequent clinical years.
3. why you got a DUI/DWI. They will especially want you to explain why as a healthcare professional (or at least student of) you could make such a poor and dangerous judgement. The board is concerned about you being a safe and competent provider that makes good decisions. DUI/DWI represents very, very bad judgement that endangers everyon on the road. They take it seriously. LowBudget is NOT exagerating.
Again, this not us being holier then thou. For all we know, the OP is a high school student troll... It doesn't matter. The question being posed is relevant to all students ultimately seeking a medical license. This stuff is viewed very seriously. Medical licensing boards are generally exceedingly conservative. They do not easily just accept "youthfull errors". They demand a higher standard of license applicants. Once you get licensed, they will sometimes bend over backwards to allow you to recover from a bad judgement.... there are huge and prolonged processes for this (with monitoring, etc...) and you will see numerous physicians getting 2 and 3 chances at drugs and DUI. But, this is after you are already licensed and a healthcare asset to the community. A fresh grad applying for a license can represent a future community liability. A board does not want to find itself explaining why it licensed a marginal student from a foreign medical school with prior history of ~substance abuse after said individual then has a dramatic bad outcome in practice. It is sometimes easier to deny initial application then to revoke a license later. The later process will require providing the physician opportunies to recover/etc....
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well said. i guess all i can say is i hope it doesnt screw me over and i do well on step 3 to boost my application and match.
my biggest fear is matching, moving...then the background check comes at orentation... the dui pops up...the pd says bye bye... and now im packing my things and heading back to my parents house with my tail between my legs... and from these replies it seems like that could be a real possibility. so do i just give up now, whats the point?
my biggest fear is matching, moving...then the background check comes at orentation... the dui pops up...the pd says bye bye... and now im packing my things and heading back to my parents house with my tail between my legs... and from these replies it seems like that could be a real possibility. so do i just give up now, whats the point?
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No, I think the information on your DUI will come up before that point. The last time I went through the match was some years ago. But, I think I recall there being application questions that if answered correctly would inform your future PD well in advance of the match and subsequent orientation. also, the license will need to be applied for well before the actual orientation date and thus the DUI/DWI should be well known by that point.
I don't have a good answer for what you should or need to do.... When I took it, step 3 required two years residency in my state prior to sitting for exam. If you are in the position to take final components of exam, great, take it and pass. One thing that may help is passing exam, getting a license and doing a year or more of service type work. This may enable you to have a track record of overcoming and/or gaining maturity in PDs' and med board eyes. That license may take some time though. presumably, if some period of residency is required for step 3, then you have some attendings that can write the board on your behalf and get this process started.
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when i interviewed last year, the only legal question in any packect was: you are going thru legal troubles at that point in time or you have ever been convicted of a felony.
nowadays, you can take step3 b4 residency... but you still need 2 yrs of pgy work to get a full state liscense in most states, for fmgs.... so im not sure what you mean by getting a liscense and doing some service type work... without postgrad training. but thank you for the advice.
nowadays, you can take step3 b4 residency... but you still need 2 yrs of pgy work to get a full state liscense in most states, for fmgs.... so im not sure what you mean by getting a liscense and doing some service type work... without postgrad training. but thank you for the advice.
OK, as I mentioned/commented on, I was refferring to having some residency already in order to take step 3. You hadn't really responded previously to that component of my replies.
Obviously, if you lack enough residency and/or requisites for licensing, it is not an option. Thus out of luck with regards to what I was recommending.
I don't know what the current match forms ask in reference to ability to be licensed and/or legal matters involving DUI/DWI or substance abuse. If they don't ask that stuff, so be it.
Best of luck.
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Three or four residents in our current and recent past group of residents have had dealings with our state medical board two of which were for old duis and one for a possible problem with alcoholism. Currently, our state interviews all people with old duos mostly looking for current alcohol problems. No problem with licensing as long as compliance with instructions. This might include counseling if it is deemed necessary. Noone wants to waste an md degree with all the money and time and tax payer money involved as well as the shortage. The emphasis is rehabilitation After identification if deemed necessary. Bu the way our state has one of the highest rates of disciplinary action in the us.
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If you have a recent DUI, make sure to reach out to your state physician help program so that you can get the right advocates standing behind you. If you have a drinking problem, they can help you establish a formal record that shows that you are in recovery.
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im not even in residency yet you stupid f*ck.
read the whole thread
What difference would that make in your mind just out of curiosity. The impaired physicians programs also see people with emotional problems and anger management issues.
I think we have explored the topic of IMG, poor academics, and failed boards/poor boards combined with a DUI/DWI. Seems timely to close the thread.im not even in residency yet you stupid f*ck.
read the whole thread.
carreer coach my *ss, you never even did a residency.
Also, can we call this a troll and be done with it? This OP's response is so unnecessary. :troll:
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Please keep things civil. Thanks.
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DocJoeKim is right. Impaired physicians program helps you at counseling & documents all that so you can prove you are proactive about your problem with alcohol. And, he's right that the program is open to physician, residents, & med students.
Most med students will use the student assistance programs available to them via student health, paid for through tuition fees... but most IMG's get zero support from their overpriced med schools.
www.fsphp.org/State_Programs.html
From the sound of things, what you really need is a mom or a dad.
Most med students will use the student assistance programs available to them via student health, paid for through tuition fees... but most IMG's get zero support from their overpriced med schools.
www.fsphp.org/State_Programs.html
From the sound of things, what you really need is a mom or a dad.
I agree. While my suspicion is that this (OP) is a big troll bait, I have responded to this thread because the topic is real (i.e. DUI) and as such many may benefit from what has been typed. The representation from the OP is:
- an IMG...
- mostly Ds & Cs during the first two years...
- failed Step 1 *twice* and barely passed (187) the third time...
- have a DUI...
- is concerned about getting put on probation in residency...
I personally think the topic has run its course and the OP should really consider somewhere else to "troll".
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not a troll bait, don't even know what that is...
just a recovering f*ckup who wants to know his chances...
yes...first 2 years d's & c's and a sh*tty step 1/mult atmpts.
last two years = honors and a solid step 2 on first atmpt...
working on step 3 now, and hoping i didn't totally screw up my future.
show me some love jack
just a recovering f*ckup who wants to know his chances...
yes...first 2 years d's & c's and a sh*tty step 1/mult atmpts.
last two years = honors and a solid step 2 on first atmpt...
working on step 3 now, and hoping i didn't totally screw up my future.
show me some love jack
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What are your chances? Not zero, but they are very low. With the attitude you've displayed here, I think your chances of completing a residency are even lower. I doubt Family Medicine is a calling for you. Maybe you should think about a non-clinical career. I've been involved with four different residency programs as a resident and attending. You would not make the rank list at any of them.
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I think the gist is that you haven't put yourself in a good spot, obviously. You're going to need to come clean but it seems like if you get accepted to a program, you will have to address the DUI but if your program is willing to work with you and you show improvement in record, you might be ok.
Concentrate on matching.
I think we have explored the topic of IMG, poor academics, and failed boards/poor boards combined with a DUI/DWI. Seems timely to close the thread.
Also, can we call this a troll and be done with it? This OP's response is so unnecessary. :troll:
Like I said.... OP trolling:troll:
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im not sure where this topic is going but
in California, anyone with a prior dui will be place on a 5 year probationary license and there are a list of things you can and cannot do...eg
minimum of 4x/mo urine drug test (at your cost), no alcohol or other substance use during probation, no supervising midlevel providers, pay for yearly and quarterly probationary costs etc
in California, anyone with a prior dui will be place on a 5 year probationary license and there are a list of things you can and cannot do...eg
minimum of 4x/mo urine drug test (at your cost), no alcohol or other substance use during probation, no supervising midlevel providers, pay for yearly and quarterly probationary costs etc
there is no way to delete this post? it is obviously troll esque behavior.
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the fact that you think my response is troll like speaks to how naive u r about the field u r in (or entering?)
sorry to burst your bubble
I attached the pdf of one physician who had a prior dui so take a look! it sux that what you do in ur private life can affect your job but thats the nature of the beast nowadays.
btw as a physician any action against you is public record, including your home address. just go to http://www.medbd.ca.gov/ the newsletter publishes all physicians who have had actions taken against them and then you can look up their license on the website for details...public info.
so don't f up!
sorry to burst your bubble
I attached the pdf of one physician who had a prior dui so take a look! it sux that what you do in ur private life can affect your job but thats the nature of the beast nowadays.
btw as a physician any action against you is public record, including your home address. just go to http://www.medbd.ca.gov/ the newsletter publishes all physicians who have had actions taken against them and then you can look up their license on the website for details...public info.
so don't f up!
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I am sorry, apologies, I meant the entire thread, including the original post.
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As a student you must be aware of drunk driving because it is common issue among college students, and according to a recent survey carried out, 1 out of 5 college students admitted to drunk driving, whereas 40% of them have confirmed having ridden with a drunk driver. This is an alarmingly high rate of drunk driving, and the situation gets worse when students reach the legal driving age of 21 years.