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Can anyone tell me if writing the preliminary and final autopsy reports count towards duty hours? Thanks.
duty hours
- Thread starter DrPathology
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LOL.
Look - just log 8am - 5pm for Monday through Friday regardless of the hours you work. If you think about it in terms of duty hours and what does and doesn't count you are setting yourself up for a long road. The rules were not written for pathology and it is entirely unclear what does and doesn't count as work in pathology. For instance, how long does it take you to write an autopsy report. If you are writing it "after hours" is it because you are slow?
And, more importantly, if you log a violation things will only be worse for you. If have seen this first hand. Do not get your program in trouble for this. They will make it hell for you. You will get no job recommendations. You will be labeled as entitled and lazy. The program can pay you lipservice, make a few paperwork changes, and then screw you. You need them more than they need you right now. So suck it up. Deal with it. It is only 4 years. Grin, bear it, kiss the right ass, and then move on with your career.
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not sure where that outburst comes from, but to answer your question, yes, i would count it towards duty hours IF you do it at work. if you choose to go home, have dinner, and write your autopsy report while sipping a beer at home, then no, i would not count it. even staying around to write your autopsy reports up, you should not struggle to stay within duty hours overall. autopsy reports are part of a path resident's work, so i see no reason it should not be counted.
and to comment on the below post, i do not believe in lying, nor do i agree with the assessment that "you need them more than they need you."
and to comment on the below post, i do not believe in lying, nor do i agree with the assessment that "you need them more than they need you."
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Yes, it should count towards duty hours. It's part of your job, no? Anything related to my job as a pathologist counts towards my hours on the job. That being said, it is REALLY hard for a pathologist to break duty hours at the vast majority of programs. Yes, there are some that do. But keep in mind that breaking duty hours requires 5 16hr days a week or 6 13 hr days. That's pretty hard to do in pathology, especially when averaged out over 4 weeks in a month (which is how the ACGME calculates duty hours). So breaking duty hours one week does nothing. You have to break duty hours for four consecutive weeks before anyone's going to care.
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But you can subtract the time it took to post your question and/or if you took a break to take a dump + the time to travel back and forth to the can to help squeeze in under 80 hours.
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I'm of the mind that relevant documentation of what you physically do on the job is part of the job. Reading and review of research, etc., while it may have an impact on how you do your job, is generally separate from fulfilling the duties of the job. Generating reports, such as autopsy reports, is generally part and parcel of the job. Now, if you or your program is at the point of nitpicking an hour here or there for generation of required reports, then you probably have a bigger problem.
Just realize that regardless of whether you're appropriately or inappropriately run into the ground during residency, that becomes irrelevant in the "real job" world -- you have to get everything done or, eventually, end up without a job. From my limited observations, the change of pace along with the increased responsibility was the biggest problem I saw new surg path attendings try to cope with when abruptly thrust into a private practice setting -- very talented people for any individual case, but struggled with efficiency handling a large caseload solely of their own. So from that point of view -- find a way to get through it faster while not losing significant quality. Unfortunately some programs know no other way to "teach" efficiency than to pile on a bunch of work, and force you to slog through it and figure it out for yourself, hopefully with some advice of other residents, and if you're really lucky with the advice of some local attending(s). They may even say "you should be able to do X, Y, and Z within A timeframe" and anything over that amount of time they won't want to count. Again, that starts hitting a different problem -- it may be that you really need to learn to be more efficient, or it may be that they're making up numbers and putting you in a bad spot.
Just realize that regardless of whether you're appropriately or inappropriately run into the ground during residency, that becomes irrelevant in the "real job" world -- you have to get everything done or, eventually, end up without a job. From my limited observations, the change of pace along with the increased responsibility was the biggest problem I saw new surg path attendings try to cope with when abruptly thrust into a private practice setting -- very talented people for any individual case, but struggled with efficiency handling a large caseload solely of their own. So from that point of view -- find a way to get through it faster while not losing significant quality. Unfortunately some programs know no other way to "teach" efficiency than to pile on a bunch of work, and force you to slog through it and figure it out for yourself, hopefully with some advice of other residents, and if you're really lucky with the advice of some local attending(s). They may even say "you should be able to do X, Y, and Z within A timeframe" and anything over that amount of time they won't want to count. Again, that starts hitting a different problem -- it may be that you really need to learn to be more efficient, or it may be that they're making up numbers and putting you in a bad spot.
