"easiest" programs to get in?

[Meerkatology]

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Anyone have a list or some names of the easiest IM residencies to match into?

I'm not a particularly strong applicant and would like to have a good number of backup programs to make sure I match.

Other than avoiding big names/california/names with university in them, I can't really tell how competitive a particular program is.

any help would be appreciated~
(oh and I'm a US applicant not an IMG)

 

[Pkboi24]

Anyone have a list or some names of the easiest IM residencies to match into?

I'm not a particularly strong applicant and would like to have a good number of backup programs to make sure I match.

Other than avoiding big names/california/names with university in them, I can't really tell how competitive a particular program is.

any help would be appreciated~
(oh and I'm a US applicant not an IMG)

I hear the Methodist program in Houston is easy to get into. They never fill. Keep in mind, usually less competitive residencies are that way for a reason. They don't train good doctors.

 

[jdh71]

Anyone have a list or some names of the easiest IM residencies to match into?

I'm not a particularly strong applicant and would like to have a good number of backup programs to make sure I match.

Other than avoiding big names/california/names with university in them, I can't really tell how competitive a particular program is.

any help would be appreciated~
(oh and I'm a US applicant not an IMG)

Don't sell yourself too short. Any chance you can give us some stats?

 

[jdh71]

I hear the Methodist program in Houston is easy to get into. They never fill. Keep in mind, usually less competitive residencies are that way for a reason. They don't train good doctors.

I don't think that's a fair accusation at all. Do you think they do "chest pain rule-out" better at Hopkins than they do at Methodist? Clinically, all you really need to be a good physician at the end of training is exposure to what you'll be doing when you're done. Community programs do this just as well as any academic program for the most part. Much of your learning in residency is self-directed. The bigger reason to attempt to go to a university program is the access to research, newest technologies, the chance to be around sub-specialty experts, and the fellowship match opportunities you have out of an academic program - none of which translates necessarily into being a better trained general internist.

 

[Meerkatology]

Don't sell yourself too short. Any chance you can give us some stats?

pass in all m1-m2 classes
204 step 1
Honors in medicine clerkship, honorable pass in all of the other ones.
taking step 2 CK soon, been getting 75-80 on NBME shelf exams so I'm expecting to score at least above average on step 2...

my problem is that I failed something really stupid - an M2 family medicine clerkship. I just don't know how big a deal this is going to be.

as far as extracurriculars, I have some volunteering and a summer internship but no research during med school. school = UIC

 

[Friendly]

I don't think that's a fair accusation at all. Do you think they do "chest pain rule-out" better at Hopkins than they do at Methodist? Clinically, all you really need to be a good physician at the end of training is exposure to what you'll be doing when you're done. Community programs do this just as well as any academic program for the most part. Much of your learning in residency is self-directed. The bigger reason to attempt to go to a university program is the access to research, newest technologies, the chance to be around sub-specialty experts, and the fellowship match opportunities you have out of an academic program - none of which translates necessarily into being a better trained general internist.

Agree with this. What was said above was an insensitive comment by an applicant who doesn't know any better. All you need is 'substrate', and you'll find that at any hospital. The extra stuff (conferences, teaching, connections etc.) is just a bonus.

 

[KRichards62]

You are a US grad (with a M.D. not D.O.) that passed Step I on the first try. This immediately puts you into a desirable class of applicants for internal medicine. Your options will be more than you think they will be. There are lots of "lesser known" university programs that you could get into. Most state universities that aren't usually included in the top programs list would fall into this category. Spend a little extra cash, apply broadly, and see what happens.

 

[Pkboi24]

Agree with this. What was said above was an insensitive comment by an applicant who doesn't know any better. All you need is 'substrate', and you'll find that at any hospital. The extra stuff (conferences, teaching, connections etc.) is just a bonus.

Whatever dude, there are bad programs and bad physicians everywhere and you know this. Don't peddle bull**** about how residency is all about self-learning and availability of "substrate". Self-learning only takes place in people that are motivated and there is a significant group of people out there that are motivated only enough to get their degree and finish residency while doing as little as possible. There are tons of people that become physicians for the money and as we all know, the amount of money you make as a physician has no correlation (perhaps even an inverse one) to how good of a physician you actually are. Self-motivation has a strong correlation with success in school. Studies show that caribbean med school grads perform the worse in residency compared to IMGs, DOs, and AMGs. Less competitive programs take less competitive applicants and there is a reason why both are that way. A large portion of your learning also comes from your peers in residency so a smart applicant would want to get into a program with as bright a bunch as he can find.

I don't mean any personal offense to the OP. I'm certain that he will get into a mid-tier program. I also realize that it is improper for physicians to speak badly of each other but my duty is to my patients and if I know of a certain place that produces bad physicians I will not attempt to hide my opinion.

 

[Pkboi24]

I don't think that's a fair accusation at all. Do you think they do "chest pain rule-out" better at Hopkins than they do at Methodist? Clinically, all you really need to be a good physician at the end of training is exposure to what you'll be doing when you're done. Community programs do this just as well as any academic program for the most part. Much of your learning in residency is self-directed. The bigger reason to attempt to go to a university program is the access to research, newest technologies, the chance to be around sub-specialty experts, and the fellowship match opportunities you have out of an academic program - none of which translates necessarily into being a better trained general internist.

Actually, I do think chest pain rule out is better at Hopkins. I'm not saying it will be better than at Duke or Southwestern or even UCI but there are places that don't teach this well. There are places that will send patients home if they present with typical chest pain and clinical signs of MI but cardiac enzymes are negative X 3 and EKG is normal. These places overly rely on tests and imaging and that to me is bad medicine.

 

[himanshu82]

Your stats are not horrible. Apply to university programs and strong community programs. But if you want to live in a big city like New York or Boston or Los Angeles, then it may be more difficult.

Each residency PD and Chief of Medicine have different goals in training their residents. I think some people would argue that top tier residencies are too research/sub specialty focused and don't actually crank out good general internists.

And SOMETIMES, third or middle tier university residencies have the best gen med training, but the top places have significantly better research and sub specialty exposure.

 

[dragonfly99]

OP, I don't think you should sell yourself short. You didn't fail any steps or any 3rd/4th year clerkship. I dont even know what an R2 fp clerkship means...do you mean some clerkship that wasn't even part of 3rd/4th year? How does this appear on your dean's letter and/or transcript? Is it even very prominent? This isn't great, but I really don't think it's going to affect your application as much as you think.

With your application, you're obvious not getting into Northwestern or U of Chicago, but I really don't think you should be so discouraged. You should think about what area(s) of the country you want to be in, and you should apply broadly and see what will happen. I'm sure there are placed in Illinois, likely even in Chicago, where you'd have a good chance. You should focus on just improving your application as much as you can - certainly if you honored your subI and got 220's on your Step 2 that would do a lot to help you. The honors in IM will help you.

I wouldn't draw attention to the failed fp clerkship thing in your application, but just be ready to discuss it if it comes up in interviews, without sounding too defensive, and have a good explanation for what happened. Be able to explain it without sounding like you are totally making a lame excuse or deflecting all the blame on someone else.

Assuming you do decent on your Step 2 and subI, a lot of this might end up depending on how good your LOR's are and how you do at interviews.

In your situation I would apply to more than the usual number of programs, but I don't think you should be despondent. Just continue to work hard and you will be fine. You should think about where you want to train - if you just want good academics and don't mind the cold in the Midwest, then you might have a shot at some of the better academic programs but that aren't in popular metro areas (? Iowa, perhaps even Case Western...not sure how competitive they are in terms of "numbers" but they are pretty academic). Certainly U of Illinois programs, U of Missouri, etc. I don't think would be that hard to get in to. If you want to be a hospitalist or something or do primary care, there are probably quite a few community programs that are decent and probably in some cases pretty cushy. If you are thinking to do fellowship, then more university-type programs, or community programs well know to put people into fellowship, would be more appropriate.

I don't think all residency programs are equal in terms of training. Some places are malignant in terms of lack of teaching and workload; the OP certainly wants to avoid those. They likely tend to be populated by IMG types who had nowhere else to go. Some programs are just not that popular due to geographic location, but might be benign in terms of personalities of the attendings and might be decent in terms of teaching. The OP could go for advice to some internist(s) on the faculty and just admit that academics have not been perfect, Step 1 is just OK, etc. and see what places they recommend that people from his school have gotten in to.

Matching won't be a problem if he applies broadly, I would think.

 

[deleted4401]

That's one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Seriously, one of the stupidest. Produce some evidence. Please pull out the reference of one paper.

This quote of "these places overly rely(ing) on tests and imaging" needs to be substantiated. Please pull out one reference proving this point.

The amount of nonsense on this board just to make other people feel bad is astounding.

-S

Actually, I do think chest pain rule out is better at Hopkins. I'm not saying it will be better than at Duke or Southwestern or even UCI but there are places that don't teach this well. There are places that will send patients home if they present with typical chest pain and clinical signs of MI but cardiac enzymes are negative X 3 and EKG is normal. These places overly rely on tests and imaging and that to me is bad medicine.

 

[Pkboi24]

That's one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Seriously, one of the stupidest. Produce some evidence. Please pull out the reference of one paper.

This quote of "these places overly rely(ing) on tests and imaging" needs to be substantiated. Please pull out one reference proving this point.

The amount of nonsense on this board just to make other people feel bad is astounding.

-S

Calm down, dude. Don't get your panties all bunched up. Just my personal opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own. This is a FORUM after all and we're here to debate our viewpoints. I'm not going to waste my time to track down a paper just to satisfy your need to have a double-blind randomized control trial for every aspect of life. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad here. There are bad medicine programs and good medicine programs. This is a fact. Just because they all abide by ACGME rules doesn't mean they're all the same. All cars must pass the same state inspection but does that mean a BMW is the same as a Geo metro?

 

[jdh71]

Whatever dude, there are bad programs and bad physicians everywhere and you know this. Don't peddle bull**** about how residency is all about self-learning and availability of "substrate". Self-learning only takes place in people that are motivated and there is a significant group of people out there that are motivated only enough to get their degree and finish residency while doing as little as possible. There are tons of people that become physicians for the money and as we all know, the amount of money you make as a physician has no correlation (perhaps even an inverse one) to how good of a physician you actually are. Self-motivation has a strong correlation with success in school. Studies show that caribbean med school grads perform the worse in residency compared to IMGs, DOs, and AMGs. Less competitive programs take less competitive applicants and there is a reason why both are that way. A large portion of your learning also comes from your peers in residency so a smart applicant would want to get into a program with as bright a bunch as he can find.

I don't mean any personal offense to the OP. I'm certain that he will get into a mid-tier program. I also realize that it is improper for physicians to speak badly of each other but my duty is to my patients and if I know of a certain place that produces bad physicians I will not attempt to hide my opinion.

Actually, I do think chest pain rule out is better at Hopkins. I'm not saying it will be better than at Duke or Southwestern or even UCI but there are places that don't teach this well. There are places that will send patients home if they present with typical chest pain and clinical signs of MI but cardiac enzymes are negative X 3 and EKG is normal. These places overly rely on tests and imaging and that to me is bad medicine.

After all of the sanctimony about your duty to patients, you'd send them home with a presentation of what you called "typical chest pain and clinical signs of MI" but with normal cardiac markers (these are MARKERS, not enzymes young padawan) and normal EKG? Not even an exercise stress? Perhaps you should refer to guidelines before being so bold with the patients that you claim you have a duty to? No? Yes?

There are probably some places where the training is pretty bad, but your claim that less competitive programs train bad doctors is pure and utter nonsense as a generalization. Furthermore, I would venture that you lack the context and clinical training to make any sort of assessment currently on who does and does not train good physicians. It has been my experience that "bad physicians" are such because they didn't personally put in time and effort into their training. Residency is NOT osmosis. You don't show up to Hopkins and just marinate and come out in three years and you're magically better than everyone else. If you really cannot see how that kind of thinking is completely and totally asinine, then I think this discussion is done.

 

[jdh71]

pass in all m1-m2 classes
204 step 1
Honors in medicine clerkship, honorable pass in all of the other ones.
taking step 2 CK soon, been getting 75-80 on NBME shelf exams so I'm expecting to score at least above average on step 2...

my problem is that I failed something really stupid - an M2 family medicine clerkship. I just don't know how big a deal this is going to be.

as far as extracurriculars, I have some volunteering and a summer internship but no research during med school. school = UIC

Solid school, good IM grades. Step one is low for your bigger named places, but you'll find a nice mid-tier university program if you want. Apply broadly. If you want PM me some places you are thinking and I'll let you know what I think.

Good luck.

 

[Pkboi24]

After all of the sanctimony about your duty to patients, you'd send them home with a presentation of what you called "typical chest pain and clinical signs of MI" but with normal cardiac markers (these are MARKERS, not enzymes young padawan) and normal EKG? Not even an exercise stress? Perhaps you should refer to guidelines before being so bold with the patients that you claim you have a duty to? No? Yes?

There are probably some places where the training is pretty bad, but your claim that less competitive programs train bad doctors is pure and utter nonsense as a generalization. Furthermore, I would venture that you lack the context and clinical training to make any sort of assessment currently on who does and does not train good physicians. It has been my experience that "bad physicians" are such because they didn't personally put in time and effort into their training. Residency is NOT osmosis. You don't show up to Hopkins and just marinate and come out in three years and you're magically better than everyone else. If you really cannot see how that kind of thinking is completely and totally asinine, then I think this discussion is done.

Okay, clearly you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. What I said about above hypothetical patient was that it would be bad medicine to send him home. If it were me, I'd work him up even with normal markers and EKG because he has typical chest pain.

Please get off your high horse. Being in residency a couple years doesn't make you better than the rest of us. No one's saying that low tier programs are training incompetent doctors, just saying that a greater number of incompetent doctors tend to come from lower tier programs. However, if you'd like to make me out to be some sort of snobby elitist so that you can fulfill your fantasies of being a self-righteous prick on studentdoctor.net then by all means, continue making your holier-than-thou arguments.

 

[jdh71]

Okay, clearly you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. What I said about above hypothetical patient was that it would be bad medicine to send him home. If it were me, I'd work him up even with normal markers and EKG because he has typical chest pain.

Please get off your high horse. Being in residency a couple years doesn't make you better than the rest of us. No one's saying that low tier programs are training incompetent doctors, just saying that a greater number of incompetent doctors tend to come from lower tier programs. However, if you'd like to make me out to be some sort of snobby elitist so that you can fulfill your fantasies of being a self-righteous prick on studentdoctor.net then by all means, continue making your holier-than-thou arguments.

I'm not making you out to be a snobby elitist, you obviously are . . . no fantasies here, just reality, which is a bizzle donchanoe . . . Don't paint with such a broad brush, and don't make completely outrageous claims and you may find yourself surprised that you won't find yourself getting your rear end handed to you so often.

 

[humabot]

Okay, clearly you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. What I said about above hypothetical patient was that it would be bad medicine to send him home. If it were me, I'd work him up even with normal markers and EKG because he has typical chest pain.

Please get off your high horse. Being in residency a couple years doesn't make you better than the rest of us. No one's saying that low tier programs are training incompetent doctors, just saying that a greater number of incompetent doctors tend to come from lower tier programs. However, if you'd like to make me out to be some sort of snobby elitist so that you can fulfill your fantasies of being a self-righteous prick on studentdoctor.net then by all means, continue making your holier-than-thou arguments.

i clearly see pkboi screwing up his interview. W/ that mind set you need all the luck in the world. apply broadly. i know people that are not even doctors diagnosing disease forget about what tier they went too...

 

[Pkboi24]

I'm not making you out to be a snobby elitist, you obviously are . . . no fantasies here, just reality, which is a bizzle donchanoe . . . Don't paint with such a broad brush, and don't make completely outrageous claims and you may find yourself surprised that you won't find yourself getting your rear end handed to you so often.

OMG, thank you so much for this important life lesson. You have TOTALLY changed my life outlook by telling me how wrong I am on this anonymous internet forum. I don't know what I would have done had I ran into someone who had LESS than 11,848 posts in a span of 4 years. I mean who else can sling around phrases like "bizzle donchanoe" completely out of context, right? I guess I would have just gone right on thinking the way I did, which I now know is wrong, thanks to you, mister. I hope you keep doing what you're doing because you're really making a difference in this world. Truly, your opinions matter.

 

[jdh71]

OMG, thank you so much for this important life lesson. You have TOTALLY changed my life outlook by telling me how wrong I am on this anonymous internet forum. I don't know what I would have done had I ran into someone who had LESS than 11,848 posts in a span of 4 years. I mean who else can sling around phrases like "bizzle donchanoe" completely out of context, right? I guess I would have just gone right on thinking the way I did, which I now know is wrong, thanks to you, mister. I hope you keep doing what you're doing because you're really making a difference in this world. Truly, your opinions matter.

Just doin' my best for ya champ. No need to thank me. 👍

 

[34140]

so ya, easiest programs to get into?

 

[Friendly]

.

 

[Friendly]

No one's saying that low tier programs are training incompetent doctors, just saying that a greater number of incompetent doctors tend to come from lower tier programs.

One of the most arrogant posts I have ever seen. BTW, I've trained at Hopkins and I've trained at a state medical center. Trust me when I say there's excellence and mediocrity everywhere. If you can't see past you're own elitism, you'll hit the ground hard during interviews and internship.

 

[deleted4401]

Just because it is an anonymous forum doesn't mean that if someone says "2+2=5" that one shouldn't call out the error. Not asking for a paper of every aspect of life. Just one saying that community medical center trainees tend to rely on images and testing more than a top tier academic institution.

When a student makes a blanket claim like yours that tries to influence others, I'd like to know where the statement comes from. Just making stuff up, although allowed, isn't the best way to "debate".

-S

Calm down, dude. Don't get your panties all bunched up. Just my personal opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own. This is a FORUM after all and we're here to debate our viewpoints. I'm not going to waste my time to track down a paper just to satisfy your need to have a double-blind randomized control trial for every aspect of life. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad here. There are bad medicine programs and good medicine programs. This is a fact. Just because they all abide by ACGME rules doesn't mean they're all the same. All cars must pass the same state inspection but does that mean a BMW is the same as a Geo metro?

 

[medftw]

Whatever dude, there are bad programs and bad physicians everywhere and you know this. Don't peddle bull**** about how residency is all about self-learning and availability of "substrate". Self-learning only takes place in people that are motivated and there is a significant group of people out there that are motivated only enough to get their degree and finish residency while doing as little as possible. There are tons of people that become physicians for the money and as we all know, the amount of money you make as a physician has no correlation (perhaps even an inverse one) to how good of a physician you actually are. Self-motivation has a strong correlation with success in school. Studies show that caribbean med school grads perform the worse in residency compared to IMGs, DOs, and AMGs. Less competitive programs take less competitive applicants and there is a reason why both are that way. A large portion of your learning also comes from your peers in residency so a smart applicant would want to get into a program with as bright a bunch as he can find.

I don't mean any personal offense to the OP. I'm certain that he will get into a mid-tier program. I also realize that it is improper for physicians to speak badly of each other but my duty is to my patients and if I know of a certain place that produces bad physicians I will not attempt to hide my opinion.

numerous studies about caribbean grads? would love to see any of them. i believe the NYT had an article about this recently that couldn't find a difference.