Easiest surgical residency

[VA Hopeful Dr]

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Maybe easiest isn’t the right word, but I think everyone should take lifestyle in to consideration. I wish more physicians would talk about this and not look down on students who don’t want to work 100 hours a week the rest of their lives and value their time outside of their job/being a doctor.

Most surgeons don't work 100 hour weeks for their whole career. I think the average is like 60.

That aside, if you don't want to work much you need to choose a different field. Same way if you hate call, don't go into OB/GYN or if you hate working weekends don't go into EM.

 

[Mad Jack]

Why does going into something surgical mean you are forced to work 60 hours + a week? Doing something I'd enjoy doing for between 40-50 hours a week is the objective

Because obtaining competence in a surgical field requires significant amounts of repetition, and without enough repetition in practice you will develop skill atrophy.

 

[Mad Jack]

Maybe easiest isn’t the right word, but I think everyone should take lifestyle in to consideration. I wish more physicians would talk about this and not look down on students who don’t want to work 100 hours a week the rest of their lives and value their time outside of their job/being a doctor.

The problem isn't looking for lifestyle fields, the problem is that people are looking for lifestyle but then asking about fields that are not conducive to same.

"I want to be a cardiothoracic surgeon. What residency can I put in 50 hours or less in, and can I work 35 hours a week once I'm in practice" kind of nonsense.

 

[slowthai]

OMF Surgery
hours like a dentist, $$ like a surgeon

Yeah, but they work like dogs during residency. A significant amount of them don't have duty hours.

 

[ToothJockey]

Yeah, but they work like dogs during residency. A significant amount of them don't have duty hours.

Very true sir.

I assumed OP was talking about life as an attending.

 

[jdh71]

Maybe easiest isn’t the right word, but I think everyone should take lifestyle in to consideration. I wish more physicians would talk about this and not look down on students who don’t want to work 100 hours a week the rest of their lives and value their time outside of their job/being a doctor.

Stop. Just stop. No one really cares if you want to be a low hour working person.

The question was about doing surgery. The specialty just doesn’t lend itself to low hours especially in training.

It’s like asking “what’s the easiest way to be a Marine?” Well. There isn’t any easy way to becoming a Marine. If you WANT to be a Marine then you need to be one.

It’s like the reality that the two concepts don’t go together doesn’t register on many of you and you think you might be that one special snowflake case that has all the low hours, high pay, and somehow manage to still stay good with low volume. But that all sounds like brain worms magical unicorn thinking.

If you no want a low hours specialty then pick one. But don’t complain when it’s NOT in surgery.

 

[DO2015CA]

Maybe easiest isn’t the right word, but I think everyone should take lifestyle in to consideration. I wish more physicians would talk about this and not look down on students who don’t want to work 100 hours a week the rest of their lives and value their time outside of their job/being a doctor.

There’s plenty of us that do. And that’s the reason we chose not to go into surgery. Surgery has to be different because the skills need to be developed and then maintained.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

There’s plenty of us that do. And that’s the reason we chose not to go into surgery. Surgery has to be different because the skills need to be developed and then maintained.

Yep. I really enjoyed my OB/GYN rotation in med school, but I also knew I hated being on call so I didn't consider it.

 

[AMEHigh]

Stop. Just stop. No one really cares if you want to be a low hour working person.

The question was about doing surgery. The specialty just doesn’t lend itself to low hours especially in training.

It’s like asking “what’s the easiest way to be a Marine?” Well. There isn’t any easy way to becoming a Marine. If you WANT to be a Marine then you need to be one.

It’s like the reality that the two concepts don’t go together doesn’t register on many of you and you think you might be that one special snowflake case that has all the low hours, high pay, and somehow manage to still stay good with low volume. But that all sounds like brain worms magical unicorn thinking.

If you no want a low hours specialty then pick one. But don’t complain when it’s NOT in surgery.

Ok got it.
I was just thinking about some of my friends who are breast surgeons for example. They definitely took in to consideration "ease" aka lifestyle when choosing that career.

But I’m not a surgeon so I’ll defer to others for that. My apokogies.
My overall comment was in regards to the toxic culture in medicine in general, but we can save that conversation for another day.

 

[jdh71]

Ok got it.
I was just thinking about some of my friends who are breast surgeons for example. They definitely took in to consideration "ease" aka lifestyle when choosing that career.

But I’m not a surgeon so I’ll defer to others for that. My apokogies.
My overall comment was in regards to the toxic culture in medicine in general, but we can save that conversation for another day.

What is “toxic” about expectations colleagues work hard when they are supposed to?

 

[Dr G Oogle]

Ok got it.
I was just thinking about some of my friends who are breast surgeons for example. They definitely took in to consideration "ease" aka lifestyle when choosing that career.

But I’m not a surgeon so I’ll defer to others for that. My apokogies.
My overall comment was in regards to the toxic culture in medicine in general, but we can save that conversation for another day.

it is totally fine to consider lifestyle when choosing a specialty, when I was between gyn onc and urogyn the hours definitely played a role in my choice but it was more like 3rd or 4th on my list. Similarly I think it’s ok to look for lifestyle friendly residencies even in surgical fields. But lifestyle means something different in residency. Doesn’t necessarily mean less hours (and shouldn’t) but might mean the program has a service to deal with you daily life, like a conceirge service to take your car in for an oil change or get your SO flowers while you’re at work. This exists at several GS community programs. It could also mean more mid levels to field calls and consults while tour scrubbed in and to present them to you when youre out of the OR. It could mean supportive faculty. A lot of this exists in solid community programs but maybe not so much in academic hospitals. And I think many a generalist surgeon or surgical subspecialists trained at a community program is very competent. What lifestyle should not mean is less hours. You simply cannot train a surgeon in 40-50 hours a week for 5 years , there is data for this.

 

[Free411]

If you are a "lifestyle minded" person, then chances are you are not surgeon at heart. Damn near everyone I know going into surgery or who is a surgeon is a workhorse. It's not that these people don't love anything else outside of med, but they are ready to sacrifice whatever they need to become the best possible surgeon. I don't love medicine enough to do that. Chances are you don't either. There can be a "lifestyle" in surgery, but it's not likely going to be the one you're likely desiring based on this thread. Consider something else.

 

[Baller2016]

If all you care about is money though, it has one of the highest ceilings. I have a friend that just joined a cash only refractive surgery practice. They just do LASIK and elective lens replacement.

On avg ophtho makes 300-400k which is pretty darn nice for the hours worked. But obv not as much as neurosurgeon, ortho, etc. I can confirm that the potential is huge (~millions due to several elective procedures from premium lenses to plastics). This is similar to plastics where there is a lot of variability in income with huge potential.

 

[Dave1980]

My friend is in PP CT surgery and his hours are pretty good. I'd say it's about 50 hours a week and he makes an unbelievable amount of money. I could not have made it through his residency but an definitely a little jealous of him now.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

On avg ophtho makes 300-400k which is pretty darn nice for the hours worked. But obv not as much as neurosurgeon, ortho, etc. I can confirm that the potential is huge (~millions due to several elective procedures from premium lenses to plastics). This is similar to plastics where there is a lot of variability in income with huge potential.

To be accurate, ophthalmologists in private practice (most of them) start out earning 200-250k for 3 years or so until they are offered partnership, at which they can “buy-in” by paying $500-600k over the next 5 years to earn $375k a year. They’re net salary is thus $250-275k for years 4-9 post-residency. In summary, they don’t start making a lot of money until 8+ years of working unless they decide to open up their own business which comes with a lot of risk and potentially sub 100k salaries for the first 2 years out of residency.

 

[CidHighwind]

To be accurate, ophthalmologists in private practice (most of them) start out earning 200-250k for 3 years or so until they are offered partnership, at which they can “buy-in” by paying $500-600k over the next 5 years to earn $375k a year. They’re net salary is thus $250-275k for years 4-9 post-residency. In summary, they don’t start making a lot of money until 8+ years of working unless they decide to open up their own business which comes with a lot of risk and potentially sub 100k salaries for the first 2 years out of residency.

Most opthos now are also doing fellowships nowadays. Very few go into PP right out of residency.