ECFMG certification and interviews importance

[bigtymer]

Hi just a quick question about ECFMG certification timing and interviews. The general question is that as IMGs, we have to be ECFMG certified. My question is that does it hurt your interview chances if you are ECFMG certified say by October 1st or mid October as most residency programs have deadlines for November 1st? Or is it tremendously better if you are ECFMG certified so that your applications can go out by september 1st?

This questions relates to me because im an IMG still in school with a green card. I am applying to the match next year. I have 3 months of summer where 2 of those months will be electives my question is basically this...is it better to have a higher Step 2 CK mark (say a 99) and be ECFMG certified say by October 1st or is it better to take less time for CK (hopefully score a 90) but be ECFMG certified by September 1st?

For me, I can spend 3 weeks in June to study for CK (i took step 1 and scored 238/99) and be ECFMG certified by September 1st OR

I can take 4-5 weeks from August into september for Step 2 CK and then once the scores are in, apply to residency programs for internal medicine?

any recommendations let me know please

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[Winged Scapula]

When do you graduate? You cannot be ECFMG certified until you have a diploma in hand. Sounds like you will still be in school next summer. Finishing the exams is not enough.

At any rate, there are programs that prefer or require that you have the certificate to be eligible to apply or to be interviewed; others only to rank you and still others only to start residency.

It would behoove you to do some initial investigation into places where you might apply and see what their policy is, as that will give you information as to whether or not you need to be certified earlier.

 

[gutonc]

Agree w/ WS (who has been through ECFMG, which I have not), with the following caveat.

As I understand it (and aPD or mcl, please correct me if I'm wrong) if you apply on 9/1 without ECFMG to programs that have set that as a filter, you will get filtered out. But, when you get your ECFMG certificate completed, your app will now magically get downloaded (assuming you meet all other filters that particular program has in place) and you're in the mix for an interview.

OTOH, if you apply with your ECFMG certification but have a Step 2 score of 89, any program that you apply to that has a cutoff of 90+ will skip over you permanently. There's no going back on this one since you can't re-take the Steps.

Of course, as WS pointed out, if you haven't already graduated by that time, you won't have your ECFMG so this will be a moot point. I say, take the extra time to study for Step 2, get the best score you can. A 1 month delay in ECFMG (assuming that month is Sept --> Oct, not Dec --> Jan) will not be the death of you. An 85 on Step 2 may be.

 

[bigtymer]

sorry for a bit of confusion i meant to enter into the NRMP match you need step 1 + step 2ck and cs and after that i think you can get "magically downloaded" but okay i take it that a better step 2 score means a lot more than having youre application ready to be sent off by September 1st even with the rolling interview schedule.

 

[howelljolly]

sorry for a bit of confusion i meant to enter into the NRMP match you need step 1 + step 2ck and cs and after that i think you can get "magically downloaded" but okay i take it that a better step 2 score means a lot more than having youre application ready to be sent off by September 1st even with the rolling interview schedule.

Thats a run-on sentence, and I dont understand it.

ERAS and NRMP are two different things.

You sign up for ERAS to get your application out there. You dont NEED any exams to do so. But the more exams (Step1, CK, CS) you have and the higher your score, the more likely your app will be downloaded.

You sign up for NRMP a few months afterward. This is the one which requires you to have your exams done by specific days. It does not require ECFMG certification.

You apply to the ECFMG when you have your Step1, CS, CK scores, and medical diploma in hand. Keep in mind that it takes a month or two for your application to be processed. This is the thing which might get your app "magically downloaded"

Once you sign up for the NRMP it is essentially too late to have your application magically downloaded because interview invitations have mostly been given out by that time.

Point being, if you can have your ECFMG certificate in hand in September... maybe Nov.1st at the latest, thats great. If not, then dont even worry about the ECFMG until after the Match.

As others have said, some programs require your ECFMG certificate in hand for consideration for an interview. Having it will certainly increase your chances overall. Having a high Step2 score will also increase your chances.

 

[ResidentMD]

The following are correct and I would advise it too -

As I understand it (and aPD or mcl, please correct me if I'm wrong) if you apply on 9/1 without ECFMG to programs that have set that as a filter, you will get filtered out. But, when you get your ECFMG certificate completed, your app will now magically get downloaded (assuming you meet all other filters that particular program has in place) and you're in the mix for an interview.

OTOH, if you apply with your ECFMG certification but have a Step 2 score of 89, any program that you apply to that has a cutoff of 90+ will skip over you permanently. There's no going back on this one since you can't re-take the Steps.

Of course, as WS pointed out, if you haven't already graduated by that time, you won't have your ECFMG so this will be a moot point. I say, take the extra time to study for Step 2, get the best score you can. A 1 month delay in ECFMG (assuming that month is Sept --> Oct, not Dec --> Jan) will not be the death of you. An 85 on Step 2 may be.

HJ is right too -

Basically-

ECFMG certification by Sept 1st - excellent. You win.
ECFMG certification by mid Sept - as good
ECFMG certification after Oct - the potential calls that you could have got go down (because of the filter), and by then programs are getting good enough candidates already, so they can do away with one (who happens to be you, unless you have a phenomnenal CV). But you still get good enough calls to match IF-
1. you have good scores
2. you have electives here and excellent letters from them.

But as stressed, dont let the certification come at the cost of your step 2.

Also look into the time your medical school takes into getting the documents to ECFMG and them getting verified. In my personal experience, that was the part that took the longest for me.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm confused as well.

In a previous post, the OP states that he was rejected from SGU in June 2008 and asks if he should reapply for January 2009 (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6747415#post6747415).

In another place, he claims to be a Canadian studying in the Caribbean. If so, the English appears to be a second language.

In yet another, he is asking about applying for General Surgery in the US.

So I'm not sure how he could have started medical school this year and be ready to apply for residencies. Please note that each account is only to be used by 1 user only to prevent this type of confusion (as many users will think you are either lying, trolling or both).

As noted above by howelljolly, ERAS, NRMP and ECFMG are separate entities. You only have to complete all exams toward ECFMG certification to submit your Rank Order List to NRMP. However, some programs will require certification to apply or interview. Others only require that you have it by the time you start. There is no way we can tell you which programs in the country do so.

General Surgery programs have deadlines of 11/1, a few 10/15. All of your documents must be in by that time, including ECFMG certification (which requires your final medical diploma as well as the exams, and does take at least a month to get frm application), if a program requires it. If they DON'T require it for application/interview, then there is no rush to get it done before then.

 

[bigtymer]

Hey thanks for the information everyone the consensus is that a strong Step 2 score is more important than the timing of having my examinations completed to submit my NRMP rank list. Sorry I was a bit confused with the term ECFMG certification I thought that meant simply to finish Step 1 + Step 2 CK and CS.

WingedScapula, I am not a Caribbean medical school student and I did let a family member use my account to post something so thank you for looking into my posting history and yes I am Canadian. I would also like to thank you for commenting on my typing/language. Although I have great English some invididuals are from other countries and may not have the greatest English but are trying their best to communicate to have their questions answered so before making comments on anyones english just try and remember why you are posting on here...but again thank you for the information it was helpful

 

[ResidentMD]

Hey thanks for the information everyone the consensus is that a strong Step 2 score is more important than the timing of having my examinations completed to submit my NRMP rank list. Sorry I was a bit confused with the term ECFMG certification I thought that meant simply to finish Step 1 + Step 2 CK and CS.

WingedScapula, I am not a Caribbean medical school student and I did let a family member use my account to post something so thank you for looking into my posting history and yes I am Canadian. I would also like to thank you for commenting on my typing/language. Although I have great English some invididuals are from other countries and may not have the greatest English but are trying their best to communicate to have their questions answered so before making comments on anyones english just try and remember why you are posting on here...but again thank you for the information it was helpful

For your own good..dont fight with the mods, especially when they are trying to help you. And such replies make me itch to post this 😉...

Its not meant simply...its simply meant, because simply is an adverb. So you do not have great English. Very few do, not even me 😉.

All the best. I hope you now know, that ECFMG certification means passing Step 1, CK and CS AND having your credentials verified.

 

[howelljolly]

Hey thanks for the information everyone the consensus is that a strong Step 2 score is more important than the timing of having my examinations completed to submit my NRMP rank list. Sorry I was a bit confused with the term ECFMG certification I thought that meant simply to finish Step 1 + Step 2 CK and CS.

WingedScapula, I am not a Caribbean medical school student and I did let a family member use my account to post something so thank you for looking into my posting history and yes I am Canadian. I would also like to thank you for commenting on my typing/language. Although I have great English some invididuals are from other countries and may not have the greatest English but are trying their best to communicate to have their questions answered so before making comments on anyones english just try and remember why you are posting on here...but again thank you for the information it was helpful

No, ECFMG certification means that you apply for, and receive a CERTIFICATE from the ECFMG

Winged Scapula very tactfully and helpfully said "English appears to be a second language". And wasn't she correct? You do NOT have "great English". We are having a rather difficult time understanding your poor grammar and sentence structure.

Also, as a MODERATOR, it behooves her to investigate your irregular posts, as you can be banned from the SDN for violating the terms of service.

Good day, sir.

 

[bigtymer]

Thank you howelljolly, ResidentMD, gutonc, and Winged Scapula for the help. Keep up the good work!

 

[Winged Scapula]

bigtymer, I did not mean to be offensive in regards to (your presumed) English. I am familiar with your prior posts and found myself confused, so went back to reread them. This is a commonly used tool on BBs and it was done so that I could be of more help because I recalled you stating in an earlier post that you had been rejected from SGU.

I stand by my original statement that in some of your posts, English appears to be a second language. Perhaps this is your family member using the account. There should be nothing offensive about stating that English isn't a first language, only statement of fact or presumed fact.

It is a TOS violation to allow others to use your account. Please do not do this again or this account will face administrative action. If you have family members that have questions who would like to post on SDN, please instruct them to open their own account. It is easy to do. 🙂

Finally, for clarification:

ECFMG certification means you have received a certificate from ECFMG stating that they have verified all your exams, medical diploma and training. To obtain the certificate, you must have completed Steps 1, 2 CS and CK, graduated from medical school, have a diploma, provided all your credentials to ECFMG and had them verified and a certificate issued.

To submit a Rank Order List of programs to NRMP, you only need to have completed all the exams needed to be certified. You do not need to be certified by the NRMP (programs that require it to be interviewed have done that as a requirement outside of the NRMP requirements).