Editing dissertations

[LadyHalcyon]

I have been approached about editing/formatting someone's dissertation. For those who have done this, what do you typically charge?

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[Groupthink]

The college within which the graduate program is housed usually has a standardization manual for dissertation format. When I have done this for colleagues, I contact their university's college and acquire this manual, and then use my neuroticism to go through the dissertation with a fine-tooth comb to ensure adherence to the manual.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Yes. I have the manual. How much do you usually charge for this service?

The college within which the graduate program is housed usually has a standardization manual for dissertation format. When I have done this for colleagues, I contact their university's college and acquire this manual, and then use my neuroticism to go through the dissertation with a fine-tooth comb to ensure adherence to the manual.

 

[WisNeuro]

Depends on several factors, your expertise, going rates in the area, etc. I wouldn't charge anything less than my forensic rates for say, record review, because that's what my free time is worth. But, I can't imagine anyone paying that for dissertation editing unless they like spending large amounts of money.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I was thinking like 20 bucks an hour.. Lol

Depends on several factors, your expertise, going rates in the area, etc. I wouldn't charge anything less than my forensic rates for say, record review, because that's what my free time is worth. But, I can't imagine anyone paying that for dissertation editing unless they like spending large amounts of money.

 

[WisNeuro]

If you need the money, sure. But, that seems a bit low.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

It's definitely on the lowish side. But she is a poor grad student and I do need the money. If I decide to do it for that rate I'm definitely only doing proofreading and copy editing, not editing for content (although I'm afraid it will be difficult for me to bite my tongue if I can tell her lit review is a mess and/or doesn't adequately make a case for the rest of her dissertation). I'm going to meet with her this week to discuss her expectations about this process. Apparently her chair "won't" help her and suggested she hire an editor to help with "organization and flow". He also told her he "doesn't have time to give detailed feedback of that kind." I have conflicting feelings about this; I suppose it depends how bad her writing is!

If you need the money, sure. But, that seems a bit low.

 

[WisNeuro]

At the point of the dissertation, the chair should not be copy editing, it's simply a huge waste of time for them for something that should not be an issue at that developmental stage. At that stage, the advisor is there to help with conceptual issues and the like.

But yeah, setting out expectations and the like is a good idea. Additionally, the grad student could see about going to the writing center. Most universities have one.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

That's a good point. I do know her university has a writing center and I assume they are supposed to help with dissertation editing as well. I need the money but I also need to write my evaluations, which pay significantly more. I chose to stop taking evals for the month of March so I could cram for the EPPP. May past few paychecks reflected this decision

At the point of the dissertation, the chair should not be copy editing, it's simply a huge waste of time for them for something that should not be an issue at that developmental stage. At that stage, the advisor is there to help with conceptual issues and the like.

But yeah, setting out expectations and the like is a good idea. Additionally, the grad student could see about going to the writing center. Most universities have one.

 

[WisNeuro]

Our writing center would not do dissertation editing in terms of formatting and the like, but they would help with proofreading and some minor editing.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Same. I worked at our writing center as a GA for 5 years and we had a policy about dissertations. I can't remember the exact policy, but part of the issue was many of the people working at the writing center were undergrad students. Therefore, it didn't make much "sense" to have them help a doctoral student with their dissertation. I know our director would sometimes agree to edit dissertations, but he quickly became burned out.

Just glanced at the doc she sent me. Looks like only her chapter I and II are "finished" and, excluding references, is only 51 pages. That's not so bad.

Our writing center would not do dissertation editing in terms of formatting and the like, but they would help with proofreading and some minor editing.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I have no idea what the going rate is for something like this, but I would second the suggestion to make the specifics of your services clear from the outset.

Helping to format a defended dissertation per the school's specification is pretty straightforward, so I imagine it would be the cheapest. Formatting a pre-defense document, such as to APA style, would be more involved and I'd charge accordingly. Actually doing content editing/revision (e.g., working on organization and flow) would of course be the most intensive, and could be relatively expensive. Quick Google search indicates most places seem to charge by the word/page.

Also, I just checked the rates at some of these sites for running analyses. Wow.

 

[WisNeuro]

Also, I just checked the rates at some of these sites for running analyses. Wow.

Analysis work is the way to go, my best friend and the other quant people I know, are doing very well for themselves in consulting and private sector work. If I liked stats more, definitely something I would have considered. I just can't imagine spending 20-30 hours a week doing stats though.

 

[deleted343839]

These freelance editing rates are very broad estimates but are a good starting point: Editorial Rates - Freelancer Racers - Editorial Freelancers Association

If possible, take a look at the document before giving a quote. Just make sure you know what level of editing you're really getting into.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I know. I did a quick Google search and people are making a lot of money editing theses and dissertations. I'm assuming many are substandard programs, but maybe that is just my biases showing. At this point in their training, I feel a grad student should have basically honed/nearly perfected the skill of scientific writing. I also believe they should be able to properly format a document if given a very explicit manual.

She is pre-defense, post-proposal. She proposed, and was approved, in November, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to participate in the match proces. But upon a quick glance at her rough draft, she hasn't written her results or discussion section. Also, her methods section is still in proposal format (e.g. Future tense etc).

I have no idea what the going rate is for something like this, but I would second the suggestion to make the specifics of your services clear from the outset.

Helping to format a defended dissertation per the school's specification is pretty straightforward, so I imagine it would be the cheapest. Formatting a pre-defense document, such as to APA style, would be more involved and I'd charge accordingly. Actually doing content editing/revision (e.g., working on organization and flow) would of course be the most intensive, and could be relatively expensive. Quick Google search indicates most places seem to charge by the word/page.

Also, I just checked the rates at some of these sites for running analyses. Wow.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

That would not be my cup of tea.

Analysis work is the way to go, my best friend and the other quant people I know, are doing very well for themselves in consulting and private sector work. If I liked stats more, definitely something I would have considered. I just can't imagine spending 20-30 hours a week doing stats though.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Looking at that link, maybe I should charge 25/hr. For some reason I feel guilty because I know she doesn't have much money. That being said, I'm not exactly rolling in the dough considering I was just licensed on the 4th of April!

These freelance editing rates are very broad estimates but are a good starting point: Editorial Rates - Freelancer Racers - Editorial Freelancers Association

If possible, take a look at the document before giving a quote. Just make sure you know what level of editing you're really getting into.

 

[deleted343839]

Looking at that link, maybe I should charge 25/hr. For some reason I feel guilty because I know she doesn't have much money. That being said, I'm not exactly rolling in the dough considering I was just licensed on the 4th of April!

That seems fair, especially if you don't have a lot of experience as an editor.

For comparison, I charge at minimum $50 an hour to faculty-level people who need help with substantive editing.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

If you charge 50 for publish-worthy work then that makes me think maybe I should go back to my original thought of 20 bucks!

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I did work at my university's writing center for 5 years, but I mainly edited undergraduate and masters level assignments. Let's just the say the writing quality among students varied greatly. Compared to somewhat established editors, I'm basically on the bottom rung.

f you charge 50 for editing publish-worthy work, then that makes me think maybe I should go back to my original thought of 20 bucks!

That seems fair, especially if you don't have a lot of experience as an editor.

For comparison, I charge at minimum $50 an hour to faculty-level people who need help with substantive editing.

 

[aly cat]

@LadyHalcyon Just my two cents, but I think you are undervaluing your skill set and qualifications. Not only are you a licensed psychologist but you also have 5 years of writing center work. Your time is valuable. Your skills are valuable. Whether or not the customer is a graduate student is irrelevant (unless this is a friend you are trying to do a solid for). I personally wouldn't consider it worth my time and effort for anything less than $50/hour.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Thank you! That isn't the first time I've been told that. I think it likely has to do with struggling to adopt a professional identity. I'm working on introducing myself as Dr., but it feels disingenuous at times

@LadyHalcyon Just my two cents, but I think you are undervaluing your skill set and qualifications. Not only are you a licensed psychologist but you also have 5 years of writing center work. Your time is valuable. Your skills are valuable. Whether or not the customer is a graduate student is irrelevant (unless this is a friend you are trying to do a solid for). I personally wouldn't consider it worth my time and effort for anything less than $50/hour.

 

[Ollie123]

If this is a friend, colleague or someone I genuinely wanted to help out, I would do it for free.

If this was just a "customer", I would consider $50/hour the absolute minimum. Clinically, even medicaid would pay me significantly more (admittedly I'd also have more overhead). You'll typically charge a premium for contract work over what a W-2 salary would be and $20/hour is below current guidelines for post-docs so I sure as heck hope you aren't making it as a psychologist.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

It is a friendly acquaintance.

If this is a friend, colleague or someone I genuinely wanted to help out, I would do it for free.

If this was just a "customer", I would consider $50/hour the absolute minimum. Clinically, even medicaid would pay me significantly more (admittedly I'd also have more overhead). You'll typically charge a premium for contract work over what a W-2 salary would be and $20/hour is below current guidelines for post-docs so I sure as heck hope you aren't making it as a psychologist.

 

[Ollie123]

I wasn't actually expecting you to answer - I'm sharing my thoughts, not the rules😉 You get to decide what the relationship means to you and what the work means to you and go from there. I'm just encouraging clarity in thinking about it - friend = friend, business = business, what is your time worth to you, is this a business you want to grow or a one-shot deal, is this sort of work semi-enjoyable for you or absolute hell, etc.

If you are thinking of this as helping out a friend and you want to give a "friends and family" rate there is nothing at all wrong with doing so, but also little point in asking us what you should charge😉

Personally, fixing truly terrible writing is about the worst job I can imagine. Content review/academic editing is one thing (I do grant and journal reviews all the time) but I can't stand trying to take something that looks like it was written by a toddler and make it sound professional. I'd offer to help someone move if it got me out of doing it. If I'm going to do it, I'm billing 2-3x my normal rate because I'd much rather spend that time on something else.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

That makes sense and I appreciate your feedback. I was interested in what other psychologists charged for this kind of work, and it seems 50/hr is about the minimum.

I wasn't actually expecting you to answer - I'm sharing my thoughts, not the rules😉 You get to decide what the relationship means to you and what the work means to you and go from there. I'm just encouraging clarity in thinking about it - friend = friend, business = business, what is your time worth to you, is this a business you want to grow or a one-shot deal, is this sort of work semi-enjoyable for you or absolute hell, etc.

If you are thinking of this as helping out a friend and you want to give a "friends and family" rate there is nothing at all wrong with doing so, but also little point in asking us what you should charge😉

Personally, fixing truly terrible writing is about the worst job I can imagine. Content review/academic editing is one thing (I do grant and journal reviews all the time) but I can't stand trying to take something that looks like it was written by a toddler and make it sound professional. I'd offer to help someone move if it got me out of doing it. If I'm going to do it, I'm billing 2-3x my normal rate because I'd much rather spend that time on something else.

 

[ClinicalABA]

I would not charge less than $50/hour unless I clearly let them know that they would be getting a "friends and family" rate. A few things to consider:

-At the $50+ rate, I would give them a profession product, with a formal contract including an estimate as to how long I felt it would take (# hours), expected completion date, and what specific services they would be getting/not getting for their money (e.g., basic copy editing and formatting vs. corrections to grammar and sentence structure vs. stylist changes). Each level of service will take a different amount of time, effort, and frustration. Heck, if it's just a 60 page document and all they wanted is copy editing, I'd give them a flat rate of $100).

-Even at the "friends and family" rate, it's a great opportunity for you get experience with making up a contract for your work. I think it's important to let them know that it's a discount rate, as well as what specifically they would be getting for that rate (including any "lesser" services, such as looser deadlines, etc.).

-Always better to start your negotiations higher. I learned the hard way after a few initial job interviews a long time ago where they immediately agreed to my stated salary needs or, in one case, actually said "we can do better than that!" Quote her $50 as your going rate, but negotiate down factoring in special "acquaintance" rate.

In general, if you are going to charge less than the going rate for anything, you probably should have a d**n good reason. It can be a bad habit to get into, and lead to less overall reimbursement in the long run. It can be tough to turn down 1 or 2 gigs at 40% going rate as you hold out for that one gig at 100%+ the going rate, especially when you need money, but don't sell yourself short- you are highly trained and skilled (at least I'm assuming that) and you are well within your rights to act that way!

 

[deleted343839]

I did work at my university's writing center for 5 years

Ah, ok. Editing is a skill and not all PhDs have it. But in this case you have plenty of previous experience and you need not charge a bottom-tier rate.

You can adjust your rate down but I agree with suggestions to make it clear that’s what you’re doing and to agree on the scope and estimated number of hours beforehand.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. They have been very helpful and have also made me reflect on some things I may need to work on regarding professional growth/identity. I have set up a time for us to meet this weekend and will definitely implement the suggestions provided in this thread

 

[psychRA]

I hired someone to do the final formatting after I defended a few years ago, and I believe it was in the ballpark of $125-150 total.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Am I the only one who’s university/college had professional formatters who we had to pay? I looked it up and I paid $262 ($25/hr).

 

[LadyHalcyon]

It seems like there would definitely be a market for that service. Formatting your dissertation can be such a pain, especially when you are already mentally drained from internship applications etc. I would have happily paid someone 200 bucks to format my tables and play around with the margins.

Am I the only one who’s university/college had professional formatters who we had to pay? I looked it up and I paid $262 ($25/hr).