EGD,Colonoscopy,Sigmoidoscopy..etc

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flumazenil

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MS IV here year that recently had a change of heart to family medicine. however, i think it is appropriate to be somewhat concerned due to the "low" reimbursement rates as well as the encroachment of mid-levels to our territory. My question is can a family doctor practicing in a smaller sized community perform EGD' and colonoscopies? I went to the AAFP and it indeed said that family doctors are allowed by law to do ultrathin EGD in all 50 states, while colonoscopy is up to the hospital if you choose to do it there- some strictly say only GI.

Anyone know of family doctors that are procedure heavy? injections, minor surgies, GI stuff as mentioned
 
I am also currently a 4th year and am interested in this topic. Here in the Midwest I know of quite a few non-GI docs who do scopes (mostly general surgeons). I specifically know a couple of family docs and even a couple internists who do both upper and lower scopes, but they both practice in small towns (<15,000). I know one large group of family doctors in Kansas City who perform colonoscopies in their office. What I have found the most interesting is that most of these doctors are older and did not get training in endoscopy during residency. I am not sure how they became proficient after residency.

From my residency searching it sounds like more and more FM programs are training their residents to do scopes. I would like to find out from some recent residency grads how difficult it is to find a job that would allow you to use those skills.
 
As a med student I spent time with a family doc that did tons of procedures including colonoscopies, c-sections, baby deliveries, vasectomies, circumcisions, and all office procedures (biopsies, paps, I&D, wart removal, suturing, etc.). Of course, he worked in a small, rural town (Logan, Ohio). He had a busy, interesting practice and the local hospital paid his OB malpractice to keep him delivering babies and doing emergency C-sections (he only did emergency ones...the elective sections were done by the one and only OB-GYN in town). I don't think he did EGDs.

Read the FAQ for family medicine in this forum. If you want to become proficient in procedures after residency (or during residency!) you can attend training sessions such as the ones offered by the NPI (which was founded by the same guy that wrote "Procedures for Primary Care"): http://www.npinstitute.com/calendar.asp The courses aren't cheap, so it's best to do these when in residency so you can use your educational stipend to help pay the costs.
 
I'm a recent grad who just got colonoscopy privileges at a hospital. I can tell you that if you have any desire to do scopes you need to do your research about programs that offer you the training you need. Specifically you need to ask what kind of numbers you can get. If you don't get the training in residency don't expect to take a weekend course and be able to get priviliges. Even with decent numbers you still have to play politics. It really depends on the medical staff. At most hospitals the family medicine department is who decides what you are allowed to do. So in theory if you have numbers to back up your experience, you will hopefully have doctors on your side helping you out. At my hospital there is only a medicine department, so I had to play nice. You need to have a mininum of 50 scopes to even have a chance. Most hospitals have picked an arbituary number needed to in order to do them. This ranges from 100 to I've heard of up to 140. However; if you have close to this and your program director or somebody who had directly observed you is willing to state that you are competent you can probably fight these numbers, as there has been no real research showing that a doctor who does 100 scopes is better than a doctor who has done 90. These numbers were mostly picked out of the sky by GI academies who were trying to corner the market. The moral of the story is do your research. I interviewed at programs that offered scoping experience and would allow me to do them when I got out. A lot of programs will say they offer experience, but when you pin them down about numbers you can probably only get about 20 and you may not even get to touch the scope. There are some programs in Texas, Lousiana, SC, and one in Florida that I know of that can get you these numbers. Hope this helps.
 
I'm a recent grad who just got colonoscopy privileges at a hospital. I can tell you that if you have any desire to do scopes you need to do your research about programs that offer you the training you need. Specifically you need to ask what kind of numbers you can get. If you don't get the training in residency don't expect to take a weekend course and be able to get priviliges. Even with decent numbers you still have to play politics. It really depends on the medical staff. At most hospitals the family medicine department is who decides what you are allowed to do. So in theory if you have numbers to back up your experience, you will hopefully have doctors on your side helping you out. At my hospital there is only a medicine department, so I had to play nice. You need to have a mininum of 50 scopes to even have a chance. Most hospitals have picked an arbituary number needed to in order to do them. This ranges from 100 to I've heard of up to 140. However; if you have close to this and your program director or somebody who had directly observed you is willing to state that you are competent you can probably fight these numbers, as there has been no real research showing that a doctor who does 100 scopes is better than a doctor who has done 90. These numbers were mostly picked out of the sky by GI academies who were trying to corner the market. The moral of the story is do your research. I interviewed at programs that offered scoping experience and would allow me to do them when I got out. A lot of programs will say they offer experience, but when you pin them down about numbers you can probably only get about 20 and you may not even get to touch the scope. There are some programs in Texas, Lousiana, SC, and one in Florida that I know of that can get you these numbers. Hope this helps.

larger cities tend to have more stringent policies about such procedures. However, several FM docs as well as Internists are able to do Colonoscopies and Sigmoidoscopies, as well as EGDs, Stress tests, reading Ultrasounds and Echocardiograms in smaller towns nearby larger ones. Also Carotid Dopplers.
 
The ASGE recommends 140 colonoscopies and 130 EGD's for credentialling. I would strongly advise anyone to get these numbers before you start doing scopes. Also, as an non-GI provider, you would be very very wise to keep tract of your cecal intubation and adenoma detection rates for screening colonoscopies. If you ever get sued for a missed lesion or perforation, these benchmarks will be brought up and you can bet the expert will be a gastroenterologist who can quote his/her personal rates as well as the community standard (25% for men, 15% for women, cecal intubation >95%).

I'm not from the school that says that only GI should do colonoscopies, but you need to do quite a few to be good at it. My anecdotal experience is that I thought I knew what I was doing after 100, I was better after 400 and now I'm finally good after a couple thousand.

You need to be able to do polypectomy via various modalities, how to control bleeding with epinephrine injection and with endoclips, how to lift flat or sessile polyps, how to mark with ink, etc. The hemostasis modalities are things that you use rarely in colonoscopy but frequently in upper GI bleeding. I would wonder how comfortable someone just doing colos is with these techniques.

At my institution, you'd have to do some supervised cases to get credentialled and then track those numbers i mentioned, along with complication rates. If you were on par with everyone, I'd support you.

And there is data behind the numbers. The ERCP #'s just went way up after a study showed that they should.
 
MS IV here year that recently had a change of heart to family medicine. however, i think it is appropriate to be somewhat concerned due to the "low" reimbursement rates as well as the encroachment of mid-levels to our territory. My question is can a family doctor practicing in a smaller sized community perform EGD' and colonoscopies? I went to the AAFP and it indeed said that family doctors are allowed by law to do ultrathin EGD in all 50 states, while colonoscopy is up to the hospital if you choose to do it there- some strictly say only GI.

Anyone know of family doctors that are procedure heavy? injections, minor surgies, GI stuff as mentioned

see my prior post. Ultrathin EGD is an awake procedure that is almost never done.
 
see my prior post. Ultrathin EGD is an awake procedure that is almost never done.

FM docs in rural areas can very easily get privileges for EGDs and Colonoscopies. I would highly recommend it. Not very difficult procedures to learn and do in the real world, and very good compensation.
Of course the GI docs are going to have a major problem with it. You are doing what they do for a living, and they have to train for 6 years to do it.
 
I've done 105 so far, and plan to get about 50-100 more before graduating. It's not at all unheard of to get these numbers at my program. I did 2 months of colorectal surgery and got those numbers while completing required surgery elective.

A recent grad from our program had a hospital tell him they wanted 200 scopes to get privileges and he got that before graduating.

We are unique in that we have a fantastic and very busy colorectal surgeon who loves our residents and is committed to teaching us scopes.
 
That's probably the best way to go. Between scoping your own continuity patients via screening to doing an elective with CRS. 200? Is 100 no longer in fashion?
 
I know, it's ridiculous. Just another hoop.

I have done about 75, and am working on privelages in a smaller community. It is not hard at all to get privelages.
I just want to make sure that I am safe when doing even difficult ones.
 
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