Elective at Mayo or subI at Cleveland Clinic?

[Menateach Rosh]

Dear SDNers,

I'd like to ask your input on a choice I'll have to make

A little about me: Im a European MD/PhD, hoping to come to the US for surgical residency training.

I have to choose between an elective at Mayo in Thoracic Surgery or a subI at Cleveland Clinic in Endocrine Surgery. I was accepted to both for the same month, which means I can only go to one....I would be slightly more interested in Thoracic Surgery (lung surgeries are always amazing!), but some people told me doing a subI is more important esp. if you're an IMG...
Because of personal circumstances I am sure that I want to train in the US. What rests is deciding on the best way to get there...
Would a letter from one mean more than a letter from the other? Would a letter from a subI mean more than a letter from an elective?

Any input would be welcome! Many thanks in advance

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[ESU_MD]

Not too much of a difference between the two opportunities for you- if you hook up with the right people, either one will result in getting some contacts for you to help get your career in the US started.

At these big places, theres tons of visiting fellows, students ,observers etc... wouldnt put too much weight on whether its a sub-I vs elective.

As an anecdote, I know a couple of non-US trained guys who started at Mayo- I think they are abit foreign friendly, at least in the early years- student, prelim, etc.. or maybe nobody in their right mind would want to go live in the frozen tundra.

dont know too much about cleveland.

you are right, thoracic surgery is much more interesting than endocrine surgery.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Agree with ESU - both places have fine reputations and are fellow heavy. Both also are well known to take FMGs in Prelim positions (now mind you Mayo almost never keeps their Prelim FMG/IMG Surgery residents but does have a good track of getting them a position elsewhere).

I don't think it matters whether its an elective or a sub-I, nor will any one take much notice. Do whatever interests you the most.

 

[JackADeli]

...I don't think it matters whether its an elective or a sub-I, nor will any one take much notice. Do whatever interests you the most.

I have to agree and add.... I think the difference in these rotations being Sub-I or elective rotation is likely more a matter of how much initiative you take while doing the rotation and how it is recorded (?by you) when documenting the experience.... Reminds me of The Great Gatsby and being an "Oxford man". Whatever the case and whichever you choose, I would encourage you to make the most of it and work as if it is an acting internship/sub-I. That is what will ultimately decide the type of letters you receive.

 

[njbmd]

I would reverse these and try to get Endocrine Surgery (Geoff Thompson)or GI Surgery (Michael Sarr) at Mayo. You can get some great experience on either of those services and both of these attendings carry national weight. You are not going to get anywhere near a chest at CCF because of the huge number of visiting fellows. A better choice would be General Surgery with David Baringer (excellent minimally invasive guy) who will get you into a good position from CCF. CCF is not a great place to do General Surgery but a better place to do fellowship.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I would reverse these and try to get Endocrine Surgery (Geoff Thompson)or GI Surgery (Michael Sarr) at Mayo. You can get some great experience on either of those services and both of these attendings carry national weight. You are not going to get anywhere near a chest at CCF because of the huge number of visiting fellows. A better choice would be General Surgery with David Baringer (excellent minimally invasive guy) who will get you into a good position from CCF. CCF is not a great place to do General Surgery but a better place to do fellowship.

This is great advice. This is pretty much exactly what I did when I did my away rotation - you are not only targeting a specific program such as Mayo or Cleveland Clinice, but also targeting specific PEOPLE. I got advice from my mentors in medical school about not just the school but the rotation, to make sure I would work with good attendings and get a good LOR out of it.

 

[VeryVeryTired]

l

 

[Menateach Rosh]

Hello everybody, thanks for all the insights! Determining the importance (if any) of certain details can be a tricky/difficult task from far away.

I've decided to go for the Mayo elective in Thoracic Surgery. That's where my interest lies. From what I understand from one of our professors here is that drs Deschamps and Allen are very well respected and well known (inter)nationally.

As for the weather. Well, I guess it will be an extra motivator to spend some extra hours indoors...converting my elective into an acting internship after all 👍

Oke, thanks again!
-MR