eLORs--who exactly can they come from??

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AniSci

AniSci
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I've got two vets I worked with (for?) that I'm going to ask for eLORs; I'm pretty sure they'll say yes. One of them has already offered to help me fill out the VMCAS. 😉

I have an elementary school teacher who I've kept in touch with over the years who helped me deal with a lot of things when I was younger, both socially and academically. And a year ago she graciously offered to write me one whenever I started to apply to schools.

Will schools accept eLORs from "outsiders" or does the person writing it have to "be involved with the animal world", so to speak? I've tried looking this up for myself so I didn't have to make a post here, but honestly I couldn't seem to find anything. And the schools I'm applying to don't really mention either way...

Any suggestions??
 
Typically schools want at least one LOR from a vet, with a max of six LORs for the VMCAS. And yes, you should definitely ask your teacher for an LOR, if she can talk about your development over the years in a positive manner, which it sounds like she will!
Schools don't care if you have a letter from "outsiders" just as long as they can put you in a positive light as far as professional development and maturity.
Example, I've had my library supervisor and student office supervisors both write me LORs.
 
Yeah I had one school that wanted a professor recommendation and a vet. Anything over that was up to me.
 
I found it very helpful! Especially for the few schools that will not accept 6 LOR's.
 
I also loved this chart when I was applying but I will say you should also double-check with what the schools say their requirements are. (i'm mainly thinking of how I found out the day before I was going to submit my VMCAS that OSU also requires the PPI from ETS but that chart doesn't say that)

Very true! Luckily I started all of my supplements early enough to find that out. I liked the chart for making sure my recommendations fit each school since some were pretty specific about wanting an employer, professor, and vet.
 
.....Why is someone else going to help you fill out your application? I don't see why you'd need assistance with it....even if it's just someone helping you word your descriptions. Also, all of this information can be found on every school website. Every school specifies who they require letters to be from.

If you're having that much trouble with finding that info, I'd call/email the schools.
I also loved this chart when I was applying but I will say you should also double-check with what the schools say their requirements are. (i'm mainly thinking of how I found out the day before I was going to submit my VMCAS that OSU also requires the PPI from ETS but that chart doesn't say that)
This. VMCAS/AAVMC/VMSAR regularly publish incorrect/outdated information, to be honest. Always talk to the schools directly or use their websites. I think they put forth a good effort, but I've seen too many mistakes in just two years of applying.
 
.....Why is someone else going to help you fill out your application? I don't see why you'd need assistance with it....even if it's just someone helping you word your descriptions.

Well, we can't all be as ultra-confident and talented at writing as you. I certainly recruited assistance from more than one person to go over my application - not just my PS - looking for better ways to say things.

I think it's a great ideas for the OP.
 
I know some people have had priests/pastors/other mentors not affiliated with animals write them eLORS. Personally, I had a professor, 3 vets, and a dog shelter manager.
 
Well, we can't all be as ultra-confident and talented at writing as you. I certainly recruited assistance from more than one person to go over my application - not just my PS - looking for better ways to say things.

I think it's a great ideas for the OP.
There's a difference there. Sounds like you had proofreaders. The OP chose different words and then added a smiley, which implies something different IMO. Perhaps it just rubbed me the wrong way with the smiley face.
 
There's a difference there. Sounds like you had proofreaders. The OP chose different words and then added a smiley, which implies something different IMO. Perhaps it just rubbed me the wrong way with the smiley face.

Doesn't matter. Whether it's someone simply proofreading, or it's someone sitting down and talking about how to best phrase/write something - there's nothing wrong with it. It's probably even smart. I'm not aware of any part in the process where the applicant is required to attest to being the only person to have had a hand in drafting the contents of the application, so I don't see any reason for you to subtly criticize the OP for that approach.
 
Doesn't matter. Whether it's someone simply proofreading, or it's someone sitting down and talking about how to best phrase/write something - there's nothing wrong with it. It's probably even smart. I'm not aware of any part in the process where the applicant is required to attest to being the only person to have had a hand in drafting the contents of the application, so I don't see any reason for you to subtly criticize the OP for that approach.

As long as they aren't filling it out for you, which is debatable as to if this OP would have someone do that.... I could see it.
 
Doesn't matter. Whether it's someone simply proofreading, or it's someone sitting down and talking about how to best phrase/write something - there's nothing wrong with it. It's probably even smart. I'm not aware of any part in the process where the applicant is required to attest to being the only person to have had a hand in drafting the contents of the application, so I don't see any reason for you to subtly criticize the OP for that approach.
Yeah, I suppose you're right that there is no part of VMCAS that attests that the application is your own, honest work. I suppose that you could argue whether or not it matters if you filled it out or even hired a professional service to do it for you. Here's the thing: Unless I'm completely misinformed, you don't have someone sit down with you and tell you how to write your PS. You write it, and then seek opinions on how to improve grammatically/content-wise. I get what you're saying, but to me it just seems off to have someone potentially spoon-feeding you throughout VMCAS. That's just how I interpreted the OPs post, so it all depends on what he/she actually meant.

You wouldn't/shouldn't write a term paper with a friend saying "Okay, you should put X, Y, and Z." To me, that's not your work. Using your own thoughts, then getting critiques and suggestions based on what you have already written makes perfect sense.
 
As long as they aren't filling it out for you, which is debatable as to if this OP would have someone do that.... I could see it.
Yeah, that's how I took the OP's post. I think it was the winky face. Nothing personal with the OP, I just call 'em as I see 'em. Now that I think about it, I'm kinda surprised VMCAS doesn't have some sort of 'Honor Code' or affirmation that you actually did the application yourself. There are services and individuals out there that will do these things for you.
 
You posted basically this same thread 6 months ago (which, interestingly enough, @Gwenevre had the first reply then too). In the future you should probably just bump old threads rather than posting again.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/elors-for-vet-school.1091463/

I think the teacher is probably a fine reference unless the schools you are looking at applying to specify otherwise. Best thing to do if you're not sure is email them when the time comes.
 
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Now that I think about it, I'm kinda surprised VMCAS doesn't have some sort of 'Honor Code' or affirmation that you actually did the application yourself.

And yet, vmcas doesn't. So you're criticizing the OP for something that even you acknowledge isn't prohibited.

At least you admit you weren't thinking. That's something, I suppose.
 
I meant to the OP, not you. 🙂
Oh I know! I just thought it was funny that the same question was asked twice by the same person.
And yet, vmcas doesn't. So you're criticizing the OP for something that even you acknowledge isn't prohibited.

At least you admit you weren't thinking. That's something, I suppose.
I'm not the one throwing out random insults like that, so I can automatically tell you my thought process is functioning just fine. Telling someone they're not thinking because they feel that having someone else do your work for you is dishonest? Can't find the logic there 🙂
 
Telling someone they're not thinking because they feel that having someone else do your work for you is dishonest? Can't find the logic there 🙂

You're judgmental. The OP is approaching their application in a way that even you acknowledged isn't prohibited. And yet, you're hinting at suggesting that they're being unethical or some such. That's irrational. You may not think its the best way to do the app, and that's fine. You may not LIKE the way they are doing it, and that's also fine. But to hint that they're doing something shady..... You're wrong. Plain and simple.
 
You're judgmental. The OP is approaching their application in a way that even you acknowledged isn't prohibited. And yet, you're hinting at suggesting that they're being unethical or some such. That's irrational. You may not think its the best way to do the app, and that's fine. You may not LIKE the way they are doing it, and that's also fine. But to hint that they're doing something shady..... You're wrong. Plain and simple.
Oh, I see. As long as you're okay with it, nobody else has the right to have a differing opinion.

It's obviously not prohibited. Neither is hiring someone to write your personal statement, supplemental applications, etc. Should you do it? No. Plain and simple. To submit something under your name that you did not write is dishonest. You shouldn't do it for course work, you shouldn't do it for research publications, and you shouldn't do it here.

And, FYI: If we want to get technical here, you do sign a statement for VMCAS saying that the information that you provided is honest and accurate. I see the loophole you can take there, but come on.

And, out of curiosity, @VMCASSTAFF, care to weigh in on this?
 
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Oh, I see. As long as you're okay with it, nobody else has the right to have a differing opinion.

It's obviously not prohibited. Neither is hiring someone to write your personal statement, supplemental applications, etc. Should you do it? No. Plain and simple. To submit something under your name that you did not write is dishonest. You shouldn't do it for course work, you shouldn't do it for research publications, and you shouldn't do it here.

And, FYI: If we want to get technical here, you do sign a statement for VMCAS saying that the information that you provided is honest and accurate. I see the loophole you can take there, but come on.

And, out of curiosity, @VMCASSTAFF, care to weigh in on this?

You completely miss the point. It doesn't matter if I am, or am not, ok with it. It has nothing to do with my opinion. THAT'S the point: you seem to think that your opinion carries the weight of ethical authority. It doesn't.

What does honest and accurate have to do with whether you sat alone and wrote it or someone sat there and helped you or someone reviewed it after you wrote it alone or whether aliens phoned it in from Mars? You are attesting to the veracity of the information, not its source. You seem to make a habit of creating nonsensical comparisons (like the academic paper comparison earlier - zero relevance).

Seriously, PP, you just aren't making sense.

Obviously, the thought of someone recruiting help with their application offends you deeply. I don't know why, but that's not relevant. You were wrong to suggest that they are being less than ethical in their approach. That's the point.
 
🤣That is me whenever there is debating that I'm not involved in.


Actually, I lied. That's still me right now.

I mean, you have to admit that what LIS is saying is correct.

Do I think you are a lazy bum if you have someone fill out your entire application for you? Yes. But, so what, that doesn't mean it is "technically" wrong.. that is just my opinion.

Do I think it is bad if you have someone help you fill out the application, hell no, I had someone look over mine to make sure I didn't miss anything or make any big grammatical or spelling errors. I think it is smart to do that, easy to get bogged down in the application.
 
You completely miss the point. It doesn't matter if I am, or am not, ok with it. It has nothing to do with my opinion. THAT'S the point: you seem to think that your opinion carries the weight of ethical authority. It doesn't.

What does honest and accurate have to do with whether you sat alone and wrote it or someone sat there and helped you or someone reviewed it after you wrote it alone or whether aliens phoned it in from Mars? You are attesting to the veracity of the information, not its source. You seem to make a habit of creating nonsensical comparisons (like the academic paper comparison earlier - zero relevance).

Seriously, PP, you just aren't making sense.

Obviously, the thought of someone recruiting help with their application offends you deeply. I don't know why, but that's not relevant. You were wrong to suggest that they are being less than ethical in their approach. That's the point.
....When did I say I was some type of authority figure?

It is pretty relevant, actually. You are submitting something that you are claiming to have written. Different documents, sure. I'm not sure why you think that's non-sensical....it's pretty obvious that I'm comparing two 'things' that are supposed to be your work.

I'm not offended, lol. I think it's a horrendously bad idea. And like I said, I think it's dishonest. It's fine that you don't, but I highly doubt you would have had someone apply to vet school for you.

If you are signing something that says you are providing honest and accurate information, you just signed something that states you provided it. Like I said, there is an obvious loophole there. I can give Bob all of my information, and he can apply for me. Technically I wouldn't be going against what I just signed my name to.

You're still talking about reviewing this as if I said that was an issue. I have clearly stated it isn't. To sit down with someone and have them tell you "Okay, write this for your description." without you ever having to put thought into it.....like I said. It's is no longer your work. It's the work and effort of Bob, only with your information and name attached.
I mean, you have to admit that what LIS is saying is correct.

Do I think you are a lazy bum if you have someone fill out your entire application for you? Yes. But, so what, that doesn't mean it is "technically" wrong.. that is just my opinion.

Do I think it is bad if you have someone help you fill out the application, hell no, I had someone look over mine to make sure I didn't miss anything or make any big grammatical or spelling errors. I think it is smart to do that, easy to get bogged down in the application.
Yeah...so again, reviewing something you wrote yourself, as opposed to having someone write your entire app for you. It's foolish not to have your documents proofread.

Depending on how literally you want to interpret the VMCAS statement we all sign, it is technically (or not technically at all, actually) wrong. It is, at the very least, implied that you are the one who completed this application. You can still argue that having someone verbally dictate your app while you type is not going against that implication...but still. The fact that I'm creating loopholes to justify having someone complete your work for you tells me I don't have to rethink my opinion on it.
 
....When did I say I was some type of authority figure?

It is pretty relevant, actually. You are submitting something that you are claiming to have written. Different documents, sure. I'm not sure why you think that's non-sensical....it's pretty obvious that I'm comparing two 'things' that are supposed to be your work.

I'm not offended, lol. I think it's a horrendously bad idea. And like I said, I think it's dishonest. It's fine that you don't, but I highly doubt you would have had someone apply to vet school for you.

If you are signing something that says you are providing honest and accurate information, you just signed something that states you provided it. Like I said, there is an obvious loophole there. I can give Bob all of my information, and he can apply for me. Technically I wouldn't be going against what I just signed my name to.

You're still talking about reviewing this as if I said that was an issue. I have clearly stated it isn't. To sit down with someone and have them tell you "Okay, write this for your description." without you ever having to put thought into it.....like I said. It's is no longer your work. It's the work and effort of Bob, only with your information and name attached.

Yeah...so again, reviewing something you wrote yourself, as opposed to having someone write your entire app for you. It's foolish not to have your documents proofread.

Depending on how literally you want to interpret the VMCAS statement we all sign, it is technically (or not technically at all, actually) wrong. It is, at the very least, implied that you are the one who completed this application. You can still argue that having someone verbally dictate your app while you type is not going against that implication...but still. The fact that I'm creating loopholes to justify having someone complete your work for you tells me I don't have to rethink my opinion on it.

Uh huh....

Ok then, whatever makes you feel better.
 
Uh huh....

Ok then, whatever makes you feel better.
Right? I think I sprained my eyes rolling them.
I'm always one for agreeing to disagree. I get that both of you have a hard time with that.

I am genuinely curious to see what VMCAS has to say though. Or if the OP ever creates another thread again.
 
Just to throw this out there, I get where @pinkpuppy9 was coming from. I saw that winky face and thought to myself, wait is someone else filling out OP's VMCAS? Is that even allowed? WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?
Edit: Because VMCAS was (is?) a mind-numbing pain in the tuckus
 
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Just to throw this out there, I get where @pinkpuppy9 was coming from. I saw that winky face and thought to myself, wait is someone else filling out OP's VMCAS? Is that even allowed? WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?
Edit: Because VMCAS was (is?) a mind-numbing pain in the tuckus
Yeah, I took it as "Wink-wink, I've got an advantage this way!" I don't think VMCAS is too terrible (ignoring the technical glitches and bad customer service), especially with the new info rollover. It DOES take a long time to complete, that's for sure.
 
I thought they were able to keep it after all? Unless their website hasn't been updated (very possible....), there are newer instructions on how to get your stored info.

There website doesn't say anything about information transfer, just the new dates and such. I got that information directly from Tony on the APVMA facebook page, I think.
 
That was for the VMCAS 2015 application cycle.... meaning the last cycle. If you scroll down through the PDF to the dates, it says the VMCAS opens June 2014.

Edit: Exact quote: VMCAS goes live: June 5, 2014 at 1:00pm Eastern Time

But thanks for trying to instil some hope.
 
That was for the VMCAS 2015 application cycle.... meaning the last cycle. If you scroll down through the PDF to the dates, it says the VMCAS opens June 2014.

Edit: Exact quote: VMCAS goes live: June 5, 2014 at 1:00pm Eastern Time

But thanks for trying to instil some hope.
Out of date websites.... 🙁

I did talk to Tony within the last month or two and he did tell me that 1. They still aren't totally sure if the rollover will or will not happen (I assumed the 2015 instructions meant this upcoming cycle, since, you know, it's 2015) 2. Receiving and distributing our GRE scores is a possibility in the upcoming cycles. So let's see.
 
Cornell asks that one of the evaluators you have submit an evaluation be an academic one.

I'm torn between asking my academic advisor, who I also had as a professor but don't really *know* all that well outside of school. And possibly a dual-enrollment history professor I had twice in high school (for two classes) and is probably the one professor who I've been able to establish any sort of personal understanding with outside of "Oh yeah, I remember that student. I think."

The only problem is that, of course, this history professor doesn't have any relation to my life in the animal/veterinary medicine world. Although I'm having two vets also submit an evaluation, so I was thinking that they could cover my ability to work in the field, while my history professor could cover my strengths as a person and an upstanding citizen.

I emailed Cornell about this, and they haven't gotten back to me, nor does their FAQ page address this particular breed of question. Do you think they'd be opposed to it? Or would the admissions board perhaps find it "unique"---or am I just going out on dangerously thin limb in general?
 
The moral compass has spoken.
I'm gonna disagree with you and DVMD... and agree with pink puppy....

What is permitted and what is ethical are 2 different issues.....

1) we all sort of agree that having some fill out your application is permitted.

2) whether that is ethical or not, is a matter of personal belief. I personally think if someone else wrote your PS and filled out an application for another person that would be unethical. Permissible, but not of a high personal standard. TO ME, there is an implication that what you write on an application is your words, and I doubt an adcom would be too impressed to find out otherwise. I might be wrong, and I may be holding others to a high standard, but that is my opinion.

Still, doesn't mean people can't do it, I just wouldn't respect the ethics of someone who did.

Now, having people help with rewrites or word choice or whatever, is a different matter and I find that ethically fine.
 
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