EM PD - Ask Me Anything

[Elevencents]

Curious what week you won't be there as well

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[westdescartes]

Would it be okay to send emails letting a program know you're really interested in their program? Especially if they've sent out interview invites and you haven't gotten one...

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I think its reasonable to contact programs if you haven't heard from them after the first round of interviews. But I wouldn't spam 100 programs. Programs know when you are spamming a ton of programs, its usually obvious the email is a cut and paste job.

If you are going to email, I'd limit it to emailing a handful of programs you were truly interested in, but didn't hear back from. The next part is key. Tell the program exactly why you are interested in them, and make it unique to that program. That way, they can tell its not a spam email. For instance, maybe you have family in the area, are interested in a fellowship they have, etc. Make it personal. When they know its not a spam email and that you are actually genuinely interested, as opposed to just freaking out and emailing 200 other programs, they are much more likely to look or re-look at your application for consideration.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Curious what week you won't be there as well

Nov 9th. I'll be there every other interview day.

 

[westdescartes]

I think its reasonable to contact programs if you haven't heard from them after the first round of interviews. But I wouldn't spam 100 programs. Programs know when you are spamming a ton of programs, its usually obvious the email is a cut and paste job.

If you are going to email, I'd limit it to emailing a handful of programs you were truly interested in, but didn't hear back from. The next part is key. Tell the program exactly why you are interested in them, and make it unique to that program. That way, they can tell its not a spam email. For instance, maybe you have family in the area, are interested in a fellowship they have, etc. Make it personal. When they know its not a spam email and that you are actually genuinely interested, as opposed to just freaking out and emailing 200 other programs, they are much more likely to look or re-look at your application for consideration.

Thank you so much for answering! Yes, I'm only emailing this program. Do I email the program coordinator or the program director?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thank you so much for answering! Yes, I'm only emailing this program. Do I email the program coordinator or the program director?

Coordinator.

 

[DO class of 2018]

Your opinion: I'm mildly concerned SLOE might not be so hot. But this program has also invited me back for an interview. Should I feel better that the SLOE is okay, or could it just be a courtesy invite? This is a place that involves travel so I would *hope* it wouldn't be a courtesy invite. Thanks in advance...

 

[jw3600]

It is not necessary, and I bet it is annoying.

Disagree.

 

[GorillaPanic]

For applicants that you've interviewed but who haven't taken step 2 CK yet, how much will their performance change their rank order after you've already interviewed them?

 

[monkeyfeet]

I think its reasonable to contact programs if you haven't heard from them after the first round of interviews. But I wouldn't spam 100 programs. Programs know when you are spamming a ton of programs, its usually obvious the email is a cut and paste job.

As a follow-up to this... there's one particular program I'm interested in and have yet to hear from. There's a faculty member at my home institution who is an alum of that program, with whom I have a good relationship, and who has previously suggested she'd be willing to contact the program on my behalf. Am I likely to gain more traction by e-mailing the program myself and explaining why I'm interested or having a faculty member reach out? Both? Neither? Am I neurotically overthinking things? Thank you!!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

As a follow-up to this... there's one particular program I'm interested in and have yet to hear from. There's a faculty member at my home institution who is an alum of that program, with whom I have a good relationship, and who has previously suggested she'd be willing to contact the program on my behalf. Am I likely to gain more traction by e-mailing the program myself and explaining why I'm interested or having a faculty member reach out? Both? Neither? Am I neurotically overthinking things? Thank you!!

Probably would get MUCH farther if the faculty wrote. Programs tend to trust their alumni since they know them well.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

For applicants that you've interviewed but who haven't taken step 2 CK yet, how much will their performance change their rank order after you've already interviewed them?

Gonna depend on the program. I average Step 1/2 together when figuring out what "tier" a person is in terms of standardized test scores. So if someone is missing a step 2 score, I just make a note to go back and add it to their app score in a few months. Just like people with only one SLOE. I go back and sometime in November/December, I update anyone's app that was missing something. I'm not sure if everyone is that neurotic, but I try and followup on every piece of data I can.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Re: contacting coordinators when a SLOE comes in... and whether its annoying.

What I do after I interview someone is, if I want another SLOE on them (lets say they have only 1), then I tell them to email me or the coordinator to let us know if a new SLOE is posted so I can followup on it.

If its a situation where you haven't gotten an interview at a place, and want to let them know a second one is in, well, that's a bit tougher. It may be something to put in an email if you are contacting programs to inquire about your app status if you aren't getting enough interviews as you wanted.

Do all the emails get annoying? Sure. Do they help. Probably. I'm not going to lie. When the program coordinator sends me 2-3 candidates daily that have sent me us an email, I look at their application. They may not get interviews, but their apps get looked at, and its very possible they wouldv'e just gotten filtered out. I don't think emailing places would ever hurt, and if you email a place using some of the tips I mentioned above, you'll almost certainly secure yourself a few more interviews using that strategy.

 

[LostinLift]

Re: contacting coordinators when a SLOE comes in... and whether its annoying.

What I do after I interview someone is, if I want another SLOE on them (lets say they have only 1), then I tell them to email me or the coordinator to let us know if a new SLOE is posted so I can followup on it.

If its a situation where you haven't gotten an interview at a place, and want to let them know a second one is in, well, that's a bit tougher. It may be something to put in an email if you are contacting programs to inquire about your app status if you aren't getting enough interviews as you wanted.

Do all the emails get annoying? Sure. Do they help. Probably. I'm not going to lie. When the program coordinator sends me 2-3 candidates daily that have sent me us an email, I look at their application. They may not get interviews, but their apps get looked at, and its very possible they wouldv'e just gotten filtered out. I don't think emailing places would ever hurt, and if you email a place using some of the tips I mentioned above, you'll almost certainly secure yourself a few more interviews using that strategy.

If I already included why I want to go to a program in the final paragraph of a specific personal statement, and it seems like they haven't really sent out a ton of interviews, is there any benefit of updating them for new SLOEs or scores?

 

[GorillaPanic]

Gonna depend on the program. I average Step 1/2 together when figuring out what "tier" a person is in terms of standardized test scores. So if someone is missing a step 2 score, I just make a note to go back and add it to their app score in a few months. Just like people with only one SLOE. I go back and sometime in November/December, I update anyone's app that was missing something. I'm not sure if everyone is that neurotic, but I try and followup on every piece of data I can.

Thanks! Quick follow-up; what’s the absolute latest that a person with an otherwise good app should take step 2?

 

[monkeyfeet]

Probably would get MUCH farther if the faculty wrote. Programs tend to trust their alumni since they know them well.

Thank you for the reply. Really appreciate your insight!

 

[Wroooong]

Hey gamerEMdoc, one more question for you. I've been very happy with my interviews so far, I think because of my H/H rotations, since otherwise I'm a completely average applicant. I'm currently on my last AI, and while I think I'm on track for another H, I've been worrying about how a HP might change my app. If I'm getting interviews based on rotation grades, would a HP hurt my application come ranking time? Or is 2/3 still fairly solid? Thanks for your help!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If I already included why I want to go to a program in the final paragraph of a specific personal statement, and it seems like they haven't really sent out a ton of interviews, is there any benefit of updating them for new SLOEs or scores?

Chances are, no one read the personal statement. Programs get 800 applications. No one is reading 800 personal statements. I read the personal statements the week I interview people. I'd be surprised if there were many programs out there reading them to decide who to interview. So if you really want to end up at a dream program and haven't heard from them, I don't think its reasonable to contact them to let them know of your interest. At best it nets you an interview. And since you are writing them after they sent out interviews and you didn't get an invite, there is basically no downside.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Hey gamerEMdoc, one more question for you. I've been very happy with my interviews so far, I think because of my H/H rotations, since otherwise I'm a completely average applicant. I'm currently on my last AI, and while I think I'm on track for another H, I've been worrying about how a HP might change my app. If I'm getting interviews based on rotation grades, would a HP hurt my application come ranking time? Or is 2/3 still fairly solid? Thanks for your help!

I hardly thing a HP grade is going to hurt anyones application.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thanks! Quick follow-up; what’s the absolute latest that a person with an otherwise good app should take step 2?

Ideally you should have Step 2 done sometime during interview season so your scores get resulted. You really shouldn't delay the exam, knowing that it takes awhile to get scores back.

 

[DO class of 2018]

GamerEMdoc: I think my post got lost in all of the questions. If you have a chance, this was my question:

I'm mildly concerned one of my SLOEs might not be so hot. But this program has also invited me back for an interview. Should I feel better that the SLOE is okay, or could it just be a courtesy invite? This is a place that involves travel so I would *hope* it wouldn't be a courtesy invite but if it was only for courtesy I probably wouldn't go.

Thanks in advance...

 

[surfguy84]

Quick question - I'm very interested in doing a 4th year rotation at two sites in my hometown. Would absolutely love to go here for residency as well. Would it be advisable to contact them now as a third year to express interest in doing my 4th year rotations with them?

 

[Elevencents]

Quick question - I'm very interested in doing a 4th year rotation at two sites in my hometown. Would absolutely love to go here for residency as well. Would it be advisable to contact them now as a third year to express interest in doing my 4th year rotations with them?

I would wait until January at the earliest. They usually don't even think about next years rotators until then.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

GamerEMdoc: I think my post got lost in all of the questions. If you have a chance, this was my question:

I'm mildly concerned one of my SLOEs might not be so hot. But this program has also invited me back for an interview. Should I feel better that the SLOE is okay, or could it just be a courtesy invite? This is a place that involves travel so I would *hope* it wouldn't be a courtesy invite but if it was only for courtesy I probably wouldn't go.

Thanks in advance...

It was likely lost in my amazing ability not to be able to concentrate on anything!

Answer... hard to say. Getting an interview at a place you rotated at certainly isn't going to mean their SLOE was fantastic, just because I'd imagine most programs interview the vast majority of the people that come rotate with them. So you aren't going to be able to predict the SLOE by receiving an invite. On the other hand, its probably not a TERRIBLE sloe, and it could be better than you think it is.

I'm going to philosophize here. I guess the larger question is, what does worrying about it change? Its not like you can rescind the SLOE if you already sent it to programs on ERAS. What's done is done if its already out there. Worrying about what it says doesn't change what it says. Maybe its good, maybe is average.... but it already exists and thinking about it doesn't change it now, right?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Quick question - I'm very interested in doing a 4th year rotation at two sites in my hometown. Would absolutely love to go here for residency as well. Would it be advisable to contact them now as a third year to express interest in doing my 4th year rotations with them?

Wait until January at the earliest. Many places won't schedule their rotations for the following year until later than that. And if the place uses VSAS, they will have a time essentially when they open for applying.

 

[doctoroxygen]

Quick question - I'm very interested in doing a 4th year rotation at two sites in my hometown. Would absolutely love to go here for residency as well. Would it be advisable to contact them now as a third year to express interest in doing my 4th year rotations with them?

Not a PD obviously, but what might be more helpful is making connections with faculty at your school who know people at the sites you’re interested in and having them reach out. Both of my aways were secured by doing this and several of my classmates did the same. Students at my school who had no one to advocate on their behalf had a much harder time getting aways where they wanted them.


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[gamerEMdoc]

Not a PD obviously, but what might be more helpful is making connections with faculty at your school who know people at the sites you’re interested in and having them reach out. Both of my aways were secured by doing this and several of my classmates did the same. Students at my school who had no one to advocate on their behalf had a much harder time getting aways where they wanted them.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Absolutely. Good point. But you probably want to rely on an advisor or someone you have a good connection with. Because just asking a faculty member to reach out to another program for you can both look like you aren't interested in their program, as well as wasting their time. Not saying don't do this, it will work, just have to find the right person you feel like you know well.

 

[DO class of 2018]

It was likely lost in my amazing ability not to be able to concentrate on anything!

Answer... hard to say. Getting an interview at a place you rotated at certainly isn't going to mean their SLOE was fantastic, just because I'd imagine most programs interview the vast majority of the people that come rotate with them. So you aren't going to be able to predict the SLOE by receiving an invite. On the other hand, its probably not a TERRIBLE sloe, and it could be better than you think it is.

I'm going to philosophize here. I guess the larger question is, what does worrying about it change? Its not like you can rescind the SLOE if you already sent it to programs on ERAS. What's done is done if its already out there. Worrying about what it says doesn't change what it says. Maybe its good, maybe is average.... but it already exists and thinking about it doesn't change it now, right?

Oh I know, I'm just looking to soothe some of my neurotic worries

 

[AlgernonMed]

Quick question - I'm very interested in doing a 4th year rotation at two sites in my hometown. Would absolutely love to go here for residency as well. Would it be advisable to contact them now as a third year to express interest in doing my 4th year rotations with them?

I'd consider going to ACEP and SAEM to meet programs during the residency fair. I think all of the offers from rotations I received came as a direct result of going to those two conferences. Be able to articulate WHY you like them....I think a lot of students just wander around the fair and talk to programs who have the most interesting "brand name" or swag they're handing out, acting only mildly interested at best. Stand out and they'll move some mountains to get you a rotation.

 

[LostinLift]

Do programs have an automatic system with a numbered waitlist, such that when one person cancels an invitation the next person on the waitlist gets automatically invited? Or do they have to physically go back through them/their list?

 

[Technorino]

"Where do you see yourself in 5 years...?"

How do you even go about answering that? "Uhhh...in an ER, as an attending?"

 

[LostinLift]

"Where do you see yourself in 5 years...?"

How do you even go about answering that? "Uhhh...in an ER, as an attending?"

In a community hospital with no residents? Community with medical students/no residents? Downtown Chicago with residents? Doing research as an associate prof at academic center? Rural Colorado community work? Finishing your critical care fellowship? Locums in Australia? MSF? Etc. x 100 different possibilities.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Do programs have an automatic system with a numbered waitlist, such that when one person cancels an invitation the next person on the waitlist gets automatically invited? Or do they have to physically go back through them/their list?

We dont. We kind of keep a short list of wait listed folks as we go, but then kind of just play it by ear as we go along. Honestly, cancellations are difficult, becuase by the time people cancel its hard to find someone who can come on short notice and wants to come on short notice. Many times, the interview goes unfilled bc we cant find anyone on short notice.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

"Where do you see yourself in 5 years...?"

How do you even go about answering that? "Uhhh...in an ER, as an attending?"

SVI 14

In a community hospital with no residents? Community with medical students/no residents? Downtown Chicago with residents? Doing research as an associate prof at academic center? Rural Colorado community work? Finishing your critical care fellowship? Locums in Australia? MSF? Etc. x 100 different possibilities.

SVI 22

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Sent out a few LOIs. Several responded saying I'm on the waitlist for an interview. However, some of my friends received an email from schools saying that they were waitlisted without having to ask. So, my question is, is "you're on the waitlist" just a nice way of saying that you're still being considered vs being on an actual short list ?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Sent out a few LOIs. Several responded saying I'm on the waitlist for an interview. However, some of my friends received an email from schools saying that they were waitlisted without having to ask. So, my question is, is "you're on the waitlist" just a nice way of saying that you're still being considered vs being on an actual short list ?

Probably means different things at different sites. I mean, afterall a place with a waitlist of 10 means something different than a waitlist of 100 at somewhere else. I wouldnt read anything in to it. Its either an interview or it isnt. If It is a program you really want to end up at, and you are willing to drop everything at the last second and get there on short notice, I’d consider responding thanking them for letting you know you are still in consideration on the waitlist and letting them know you could make it on short notice if there is a cancellation.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Probably means different things at different sites. I mean, afterall a place with a waitlist of 10 means something different than a waitlist of 100 at somewhere else. I wouldnt read anything in to it. Its either an interview or it isnt. If It is a program you really want to end up at, and you are willing to drop everything at the last second and get there on short notice, I’d consider responding thanking them for letting you know you are still in consideration on the waitlist and letting them know you could make it on short notice if there is a cancellation.

True.
I just wish schools would not play this silent rejection/waitlist game. Not hard to reject your obvious no's so they know which schools to focus on. Either way, I'll keep myself occupied with OW and D2.

 

[BigGAC1]

Many times, the interview goes unfilled bc we cant find anyone on short notice.

Did somebody say something about unfilled interviews? My ears were burning. I'm keeping a go-bag by my door this interview season.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

There's always unfilled interviews. Can't fill them all up right away. There's still potential matches to unearth out there in that list of applicants.

 

[green lantern]

Hi gamerEMdoc - I'm getting pretty concerned and wanted an opinion from someone in a program admin. Right now I'm sitting at a whopping 3 total interview invites. 2 are from aways and 1 is an actual non-away invite (I'm currently waitlisted for all their dates because they sent me a later invite so all the spots were already filled). I have 2 SLOEs in, and just finished an AI that should have another SLOE uploaded soon. I'm fairly sure the 1st SLOE should be glowing as the eval they sent to my school was listed as student "exceeds expectations", and it was a great rotation. It was from a well-established University program. I'm unsure about the 2nd SLOE - I had kind of a lukewarm experience there... nothing negative, just not overwhelmingly positive. The eval they sent my school was fine, so I was kind of assuming it would be a middle 1/3rd SLOE. It was at a DO program in the midwest. This most recent away went very well and I expect a positive SLOE, it just won't be uploaded for at least another week at the earliest. It was from another well-established University program. I'm a DO from a midwestern school, 219/237 Steps, middle of the pack in my class. I applied very broadly, and have already sent out a number of letters of interest already to programs I'm really hoping to hear from.

I'm just getting pretty worried at this point - kinda freaking out. I have only had the 1 invite since MSPEs were sent out. I'm also worried that I got blindsided on that 2nd SLOE and it wasn't shown in the eval they sent my school. Do I need to be panicking? What else can I be doing at this point? Do I need to start applying for a backup specialty?

As gamerEMdoc would say. Try not to worry about the SLOE being bad or good if you sent it out you can't take it back so you have to keep moving forward. I had a a sub par SLOE that I originally felt good about but found out later it was what I thought it was. I can't change the SLOE but I can still try to keep my hopes up. The whole process sucks and I have talked to people who have gotten 20 interview and others with very few interviews and there don't seem much difference int he students. I don't know how programs decide to select candidates or the filter they use but its so random that its hard to try figure out what programs are thinking or actually looks good on an application. This whole precees makes it hard to really understand what any one is thinking and this goes to attendings, residents, and students but hopefully the process works out for everyone.

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[gamerEMdoc]

Hi gamerEMdoc - I'm getting pretty concerned and wanted an opinion from someone in a program admin. Right now I'm sitting at a whopping 3 total interview invites. 2 are from aways and 1 is an actual non-away invite (I'm currently waitlisted for all their dates because they sent me a later invite so all the spots were already filled). I have 2 SLOEs in, and just finished an AI that should have another SLOE uploaded soon. I'm fairly sure the 1st SLOE should be glowing as the eval they sent to my school was listed as student "exceeds expectations", and it was a great rotation. It was from a well-established University program. I'm unsure about the 2nd SLOE - I had kind of a lukewarm experience there... nothing negative, just not overwhelmingly positive. The eval they sent my school was fine, so I was kind of assuming it would be a middle 1/3rd SLOE. It was at a DO program in the midwest. This most recent away went very well and I expect a positive SLOE, it just won't be uploaded for at least another week at the earliest. It was from another well-established University program. I'm a DO from a midwestern school, 219/237 Steps, middle of the pack in my class. I applied very broadly, and have already sent out a number of letters of interest already to programs I'm really hoping to hear from.

I'm just getting pretty worried at this point - kinda freaking out. I have only had the 1 invite since MSPEs were sent out. I'm also worried that I got blindsided on that 2nd SLOE and it wasn't shown in the eval they sent my school. Do I need to be panicking? What else can I be doing at this point? Do I need to start applying for a backup specialty?

Edit: Also, assuming this 3rd SLOE is in by the end of next week, do you think it will be too late to garner any new interviews from it if it reflects positively?

It’s still early but I understand the concern. A third SLOE is often unnecessary IMO if the first two are good, but can act as a tie breaker if you have one good sloe and one mediocre sloe. If you get a chance, shoot me a private message and Id be happy to see if I can look over your app in more detail and advise from there.

 

[DontstrainonMe]

It’s still early but I understand the concern. A third SLOE is often unnecessary IMO if the first two are good, but can act as a tie breaker if you have one good sloe and one mediocre sloe. If you get a chance, shoot me a private message and Id be happy to see if I can look over your app in more detail and advise from there.

Is this offer open to other potentials?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Is this offer open to other potentials?

I've never turned down a student seeking advice yet. Don't plan on doing so anytime soon.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I should've clarified. I'm getting inundated with PM's asking me for advice, and many asking me to review their application to advise where to go from here, many from people who never have posted on SDN. Honestly, I don't mind, I will help each and every student that reaches out to me to the best of my ability. But please understand that I can't tell you details about what's in your SLOEs or LORs. I should've made that clear.

 

[Angry Birds]

I've never turned down a student seeking advice yet. Don't plan on doing so anytime soon.

Why are you so nice

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Why are you so nice

Im not really, I promise! But I do love EM and medical education, so helping students is fun side hobby for me.

 

[DontstrainonMe]

Im not really, I promise! But I do love EM and medical education, so helping students is fun side hobby for me.

and we love you too. Serious question, I am legit scared now that I might not match, is it okay to add more programs or just a waste of $$ at this point? Do you guys even look at apps this late out.

 

[Frisky Crouton]

Thank you for all your help on SDN. This forum has been super helpful this past interview season.

I just submitted a fourth letter, which is my third SLOE. Do you think programs will read it? Or are they typically done reviewing an app after 3 letters have been submitted? Many thanks!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

and we love you too. Serious question, I am legit scared now that I might not match, is it okay to add more programs or just a waste of $$ at this point? Do you guys even look at apps this late out.

If you are adding programs Id probably follow the addition with an email letter of interest. Because honestly, at this point programs are just overwhelmed with the number of applicants, and any filtering down of candidates has been done. It may help to add more, but Id definitely follow that addition up with an email in the hope that it gets the program to take a closer look at your app. May not work, but my suspician is, if you dont email, most of the late additions dont get viewed.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thank you for all your help on SDN. This forum has been super helpful this past interview season.

I just submitted a fourth letter, which is my third SLOE. Do you think programs will read it? Or are they typically done reviewing an app after 3 letters have been submitted? Many thanks!

As always, I can’t speak for other programs. But I suspect most people will have read and decided on the applications one way or another at this point. They may have created a waitlist to go back to, but for the most part, a good chunk of their interviews have been decided upon. Exact number? I’m not sure but I suspect maybe 75% or so. So if you’ve added another sloe that you think might put your application over the top, then it’s reasonable to email the programs that you have genuine interest in to see if it net you an interview there. However, there’s no need to contact programs that you already have interviews that, obviously they’ll be able to see the sloe When they look at your packet when it comes time for the interview.