EM Auditions Thread

[boolin_1]

I would like to have a consolidated area where people can post about their EM Auditions for the upcoming application cycle. There is a lot of uncertainty right now about what's going to happen with upcoming rotations, and if they will loosen the requirement of SLOE's.

Use this to post:
Questions (maybe some of us can help answer each others questions)
Away confirmations (date & place if you feel like sharing)
Away rejections - including blanket updates from programs


Are other students still applying through VSAS? It seems almost like a waste of time and money right now. I have a (DO) classmate who still has 2-3 auditions set up. So it seems like some programs are still accepting students for this upcoming audition season: July - November

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[clocks123]

Applied but haven't heard anything yet. However, many schools I wanted to apply to have put a hold on accepting new applications at the moment.

 

[Oligodinero]

I had 2 confirmed one for June, 1 in July. I'm planning to reach out to them tomorrow to see if they're still on. I had another 2 soft yes's, one West Coast and another Mid-West, and will also email them tomorrow to see what's going on.....but I'm not going to be surprised if I don't get an email back from them.....I'd suppose the coordinators may not be considered essential personnel during this whole mess.

I had to go outside of VSAS. I'm a second-year and haven't taken Step 1 or Level 1 yet (because I'm in a 3 year program)......heck I don't even know if my COMLEX/USMLE will be cancelled next month or not.

 

[boolin_1]

I have a buddy who had a VSAS app accepted for surgery last week. So it looks like some programs are accepting. I haven’t heard anything from my VSAS. I don’t know if the same programs I have applied to are just not accepting due to COVID-19 or just haven’t accepted ME individually

 

[Oligodinero]

I know for a fact that some school aren't taking visiting students due to COVID-19. Oregon HSU is one, IIRC. The rejections I got were all because they only accept VSAS applications.....but a couple also stated that they're not taking any applications due to COVID

 

[boolin_1]

So I have listened to a lot of little webinars about all this junk. It seems like the general consensus is as follows. These are all discussions between PD's and are all general recommendations but who knows if all the programs will follow suit, but I feel like they have no choice but to adhere.

- EM Programs are willing to take narrative LOR or SLOE's from non-residency programs
- 1 SLOE is plenty this year, 1 SLOE + 1 Narrative Letter = a complete application
- more than 2 SLOE's is a gigantic red flag, you will be seen as selfish
- be creative on how you can get LOR
- if it's a narrative LOR, let the letter show to your characteristics as a student on how you fit well in ER
- the timeline for everything will be pushed back, PD's will be accepting later applications
- letters from later rotations will still be valuable (Oct, November)
- seems like July/August rotations are more unlikely to happen than Sept/Oct rotations so apply for more later rotations
- everything is going through the same thing yo

 

[kristysmiles]

So I have listened to a lot of little webinars about all this junk. It seems like the general consensus is as follows. These are all discussions between PD's and are all general recommendations but who knows if all the programs will follow suit, but I feel like they have no choice but to adhere.

- EM Programs are willing to take narrative LOR or SLOE's from non-residency programs
- 1 SLOE is plenty this year, 1 SLOE + 1 Narrative Letter = a complete application
- more than 2 SLOE's is a gigantic red flag, you will be seen as selfish
- be creative on how you can get LOR
- if it's a narrative LOR, let the letter show to your characteristics as a student on how you fit well in ER
- the timeline for everything will be pushed back, PD's will be accepting later applications
- letters from later rotations will still be valuable (Oct, November)
- seems like July/August rotations are more unlikely to happen than Sept/Oct rotations so apply for more later rotations
- everything is going through the same thing yo

Honestly, I'm quite upset at them for putting out that we are selfish if we have more than 2 rotations. I had 4 away EM rotations set up prior to coronavirus. No home EM institution. I have a low comlex level 1 score, no usmle step 1 score due to extenuating circumstances. My school highly recommended that I try to secure as many away rotations as I could to match EM. I'm waiting for them to get back to me concerning this updated guidance. I've worked extremely hard on networking, attending every regional and national conferences all over the US, and being strongly involved in school and state EM organizations to secure these rotations and increase my chances of matching EM. I'd consider dropping one of the rotations, but for the other 3,I already have extremely low-cost lodging set-up.

On a side note: VSAS is down, but I did still get a phone call about a non-EM rotation that I had submitted on VSAS. So all hope is not lost.

 

[boolin_1]

I have no EM audition rotations set up. I feel like I am the minority here. I don't really understand why I haven't heard back. this is incredibly disheartening

edit: I mean I understand why I haven't heard back, because there is a deadly pandemic. But it seems like other students are getting responses and I am not.

 

[deleted547339]

Honestly, I'm quite upset at them for putting out that we are selfish if we have more than 2 rotations. I had 4 away EM rotations set up prior to coronavirus. No home EM institution. I have a low comlex level 1 score, no usmle step 1 score due to extenuating circumstances. My school highly recommended that I try to secure as many away rotations as I could to match EM. I'm waiting for them to get back to me concerning this updated guidance. I've worked extremely hard on networking, attending every regional and national conferences all over the US, and being strongly involved in school and state EM organizations to secure these rotations and increase my chances of matching EM. I'd consider dropping one of the rotations, but for the other 3,I already have extremely low-cost lodging set-up.

On a side note: VSAS is down, but I did still get a phone call about a non-EM rotation that I had submitted on VSAS. So all hope is not lost.

Cool, so you’d rather have them just think you’re being selfish and not tell you? There are enough things in life to be upset about, this isn’t one of them.

 

[boolin_1]

Honestly, I'm quite upset at them for putting out that we are selfish if we have more than 2 rotations. I had 4 away EM rotations set up prior to coronavirus. No home EM institution. I have a low comlex level 1 score, no usmle step 1 score due to extenuating circumstances. My school highly recommended that I try to secure as many away rotations as I could to match EM. I'm waiting for them to get back to me concerning this updated guidance. I've worked extremely hard on networking, attending every regional and national conferences all over the US, and being strongly involved in school and state EM organizations to secure these rotations and increase my chances of matching EM. I'd consider dropping one of the rotations, but for the other 3,I already have extremely low-cost lodging set-up.

On a side note: VSAS is down, but I did still get a phone call about a non-EM rotation that I had submitted on VSAS. So all hope is not lost.

is your nonEM rotation supposed to be your back up? what is it if you dont mind sharing

 

[kaygeebee]

Honestly, I'm quite upset at them for putting out that we are selfish if we have more than 2 rotations. I had 4 away EM rotations set up prior to coronavirus. No home EM institution. I have a low comlex level 1 score, no usmle step 1 score due to extenuating circumstances. My school highly recommended that I try to secure as many away rotations as I could to match EM. I'm waiting for them to get back to me concerning this updated guidance. I've worked extremely hard on networking, attending every regional and national conferences all over the US, and being strongly involved in school and state EM organizations to secure these rotations and increase my chances of matching EM. I'd consider dropping one of the rotations, but for the other 3,I already have extremely low-cost lodging set-up.

On a side note: VSAS is down, but I did still get a phone call about a non-EM rotation that I had submitted on VSAS. So all hope is not lost.

Good luck to you if you actually end up handing in 4 SLOEs this year. I listened to the EMRA hangout session and they were pretty clear about that.

TBH i kinda question the mentality of some people wanting EM. they constantly stress the importance of being a team player and being able to work with others etc. in an ordinary world, everything you've been doing would make perfect sense. but we're in a pandemic and circumstances have changed. you have 4 aways set up when chances are, there's also someone in your neighborhood with low scores, no home program who probably can't get even 1 away. i just don't see anyone patting you on the back for going on this direction. but hey, i could be wrong...

kinda reminds me of the bro who asked if students volunteering for COVID would be "weighed more heavily" than those who didn't. none of the attendings even bothered answering him.

 

[boolin_1]

Good luck to you if you actually end up handing in 4 SLOEs this year. I listened to the EMRA hangout session and they were pretty clear about that.

TBH i kinda question the mentality of some people wanting EM. they constantly stress the importance of being a team player and being able to work with others etc. in an ordinary world, everything you've been doing would make perfect sense. but we're in a pandemic and circumstances have changed. you have 4 aways set up when chances are, there's also someone in your neighborhood with low scores, no home program who probably can't get even 1 away. i just don't see anyone patting you on the back for going on this direction. but hey, i could be wrong...

kinda reminds me of the bro who asked if students volunteering for COVID would be "weighed more heavily" than those who didn't. none of the attendings even bothered answering him.

I remember watching the EMRA hangout and when the president (forget her name) mentioned that volunteering for COVID and getting a letter from that would also look great, I could mentally see the thought bubble in all the gunners minds'

chopper gunner inbound

 

[boolin_1]

side note: I got accepted to a July rotation today. so some places are still taking people. it was through clinician nexus

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

I have 4 non-vsas rotations set up. All were done prior to the COVID stuff. Started contacting programs in November and December of 2019.

2 rotations will be before apps are submitted. 2 will be after in Nov and January.


Schools really drop the ball on advising students how to secure EM aways. It's incredibly annoying the amount of legwork we have to put in to get things rolling. They all just say use VSAS, which is the slowest and most costly option.

 

[kristysmiles]

My school recommends at least 5-6 away rotations, and historically this how many our students do. I'm quite aware that nationally this is not recommended, but the national recommendations are not one size fits all. We are a newer school with only one non-EM residency affiliation at a tiny hospital. Our students don't get an EM elective in 3rd year. Also just because it's being advised that programs accept 1 SLOE or less, doesn't mean they will. Just like how the AMA approved the resolution that COMLEX is equivalent to USMLE (in 2018). There's still a ton of programs that won't even look at DO students without USMLE.

There's a lot of advocacy to get rotation slots back open, so theoretically the whole pandemic could have little impact on rotations outside of the current VSAS delay. I'm not going to cancel a rotation in November 6 months out. For all I know my other slots could get cancelled and I'll need this rotation. The way my rotations are set up I'd be lucky to get 2 SLOEs before applications are due. If things continue to hit the fan, I'll contact my top programs directly to get their input.

The non-Em rotation isn't a back-up. It's a rotation in trauma surgery. I think the experience would be invaluable.

@boolin_1 congrats on the rotation! I couldn't even apply through clinical nexus as all HCA programs require a COMLEX score >470.

is your nonEM rotation supposed to be your back up? what is it if you dont mind sharing

 

[boolin_1]

My school recommends at least 5-6 away rotations, and historically this how many our students do. I'm quite aware that nationally this is not recommended, but the national recommendations are not one size fits all. We are a newer school with only one non-EM residency affiliation at a tiny hospital. Our students don't get an EM elective in 3rd year. Also just because it's being advised that programs accept 1 SLOE or less, doesn't mean they will. Just like how the AMA approved the resolution that COMLEX is equivalent to USMLE (in 2018). There's still a ton of programs that won't even look at DO students without USMLE.

There's a lot of advocacy to get rotation slots back open, so theoretically the whole pandemic could have little impact on rotations outside of the current VSAS delay. I'm not going to cancel a rotation in November 6 months out. For all I know my other slots could get cancelled and I'll need this rotation. The way my rotations are set up I'd be lucky to get 2 SLOEs before applications are due. If things continue to hit the fan, I'll contact my top programs directly to get their input.

The non-Em rotation isn't a back-up. It's a rotation in trauma surgery. I think the experience would be invaluable.

@boolin_1 congrats on the rotation! I couldn't even apply through clinical nexus as all HCA programs require a COMLEX score >470.

happy I got the rotation, but it's not really a program I am SUPER interested in. but given what's going on, I'm not sure i'll get another one. also this area is kind of a hotspot for COVID right now so my parents and girlfriend are not happy

 

[KGflyboy]

My school recommends at least 5-6 away rotations, and historically this how many our students do.

I don't understand. Programs don't even accept that many SLOEs. What's the purpose of that many auditions?
1 for practice
3 for SLOEs
2 just cause

For what it's worth, I did 6 EM rotations. I did 2 local EM electives 3rd year at community hospitals while trying to make up my mind about what specialty to choose. I did 4 away rotations 4th year. That decision was driven by the fact DO and MD residiencies were just starting to merge, and I wanted to be able to apply to both matches. That reasoning no longer applies.

I felt like I did too many rotations at the time. Now that the match process is streamlined, I am even more confident 6 is way too many rotations. If I had to do it again, I would do 3. If people can't get 3 this year due to the pandemic, I think 2 will be adequate. I suspect many people will only have 1 EM rotation and still match.

I have no idea why some schools give such terrible advice. Do as many auditions as you want, but please don't feel like you need that many to be competitive.

 

[Brules_Rules]

Do any of you get the impression that your schools would actually permit students to do away rotations any time in the near future? I'm at a west coast MD program and my school has made it pretty clear that they are fairly resistant to allowing students to travel for rotations (even if we manage to get them arranged through VSAS, etc.). From recent meetings with our deans I was given the impression that they seem to be anticipating a moratorium on away rotations through VSAS/VSLO this year and likely national guidance that would discourage students from traveling to complete rotations in general. I'm curious if this is more of a regional attitude or if other schools throughout the country have expressed similar sentiments to their students.

 

[kristysmiles]

I don't understand. Programs don't even accept that many SLOEs. What's the purpose of that many auditions?
1 for practice
3 for SLOEs
2 just cause

For what it's worth, I did 6 EM rotations. I did 2 local EM electives 3rd year at community hospitals while trying to make up my mind about what specialty to choose. I did 4 away rotations 4th year. That decision was driven by the fact DO and MD residiencies were just starting to merge, and I wanted to be able to apply to both matches. That reasoning no longer applies.

I felt like I did too many rotations at the time. Now that the match process is streamlined, I am even more confident 6 is way too many rotations. If I had to do it again, I would do 3. If people can't get 3 this year due to the pandemic, I think 2 will be adequate. I suspect many people will only have 1 EM rotation and still match.

I have no idea why some schools give such terrible advice. Do as many auditions as you want, but please don't feel like you need that many to be competitive.

Our school has absolutely no opportunities in 3rd year to do any rotations in the ED. We get zero electives and we aren't allowed to shadow during our core rotations. Many of use aren't able to get July rotations because we have no home ED program. So we have to compete with individuals such as yourself who have already had 3 rotations, when we start our first EM rotation in August. So we will have 1 SLOE by the time the September 15th date comes around. We attend a newer DO school so the core curriculum sets you up for primary care, and the rest of us just get left hanging . They recommend doing so many rotations for exposure to programs to help obtain interviews, as it's very difficult to look like a good EM candidate the way they set up our schedule. Many of our students only get interviews at places they rotate. As we are a newer school we don't have residents in programs to vouch for the quality of students. Additionally, we also only get 4-5 weeks of dedicated study time 2nd year (finish at the end of May), so they make it extremely difficult to study for both USMLE and COMLEX.

 

[KGflyboy]

Our school has absolutely no opportunities in 3rd year to do any rotations in the ED. We get zero electives and we aren't allowed to shadow during our core rotations. Many of use aren't able to get July rotations because we have no home ED program. So we have to compete with individuals such as yourself who have already had 3 rotations, when we start our first EM rotation in August. So we will have 1 SLOE by the time the September 15th date comes around. We attend a newer DO school so the core curriculum sets you up for primary care, and the rest of us just get left hanging . They recommend doing so many rotations for exposure to programs to help obtain interviews, as it's very difficult to look like a good EM candidate the way they set up our schedule. Many of our students only get interviews at places they rotate. As we are a newer school we don't have residents in programs to vouch for the quality of students. Additionally, we also only get 4-5 weeks of dedicated study time 2nd year (finish at the end of May), so they make it extremely difficult to study for both USMLE and COMLEX.

My point was you don't need an EM rotation 3rd year. I did it simply because I didn't know what it takes to match at that point in time. It didn't help me match, and being in your position a few years ago I'm telling you from experience you are getting bad advice. The advice on this forum from people recently in your position is more likely to be accurate than what most advisers who aren't actively involved with an EM residency typically provide. The advice from EM faculty on this forum is certainly going to be more accurate.

Even if you take the pandemic out of the picture, people will be weirded out if you do 6 auditions. Just do a few and then use the rest of your elective time for something cool, fun, or interesting to you.

On a regular pandemic year, you only need 2-3 audition rotations. I think most DO students should do 3 if possible because their home institutions usually do not have a residency and therefore would not provide a SLOE. Anybody telling you to do 5-6 is out of touch.

On normal application cycles, most programs will send interview interviews with 1 SLOE with the expectation that you will send a 2nd SLOE sometime in the Fall.
This warrants repeating. You only need 2 SLOEs to match at most programs. Having more will NOT increase your chances in most situations.

A minority of programs want 3 SLOEs. I don't think any programs require 4. You cannot physically send more than 4 SLOEs to a program even if you have more of them.

There is a lot of good info on this forum about the residency match process including away rotations, SLOEs, and interviews. SDN advice isn't always correct, but I found that it was actually the most reliable source of information about matching to an EM residency.

 

[boolin_1]

updates from other students?