EM Elective

[xClashx]

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Need some opinions. I am now going into 3rd year and am considering EM for residency. Our school has a CCC system where first 6 months we have our core rotations and then the remaining 6 months, we go to another community and do a little bit of everything. In the first 6 months block, I have an elective rotation.

My question is: Is it a good idea to do EM elective in the middle of your third year, or should I do the elective after my 4th year's required EM block.

If I take an EM elective in 3rd year, will I have to take less EM electives in 4th year. Could this be a bad thing if I want to do my required elective at my school and the elective EM rotation away.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Do an away in 4th year when you will be top of your game.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Need some opinions. I am now going into 3rd year and am considering EM for residency. Our school has a CCC system where first 6 months we have our core rotations and then the remaining 6 months, we go to another community and do a little bit of everything. In the first 6 months block, I have an elective rotation.

My question is: Is it a good idea to do EM elective in the middle of your third year, or should I do the elective after my 4th year's required EM block.

If I take an EM elective in 3rd year, will I have to take less EM electives in 4th year. Could this be a bad thing if I want to do my required elective at my school and the elective EM rotation away.

You need two fourth year rotations. Sloe from third year is not the same value.

Only reason for a third year rotation is to be sure you wanna do it (before you're committed). Having said that, em will be less enjoyable as a third year because you won't know quite as much, so it'll be harder to hit the ground running. It's a specialty that draws from all the others

 

[xClashx]

You need two fourth year rotations. Sloe from third year is not the same value.

Only reason for a third year rotation is to be sure you wanna do it (before you're committed). Having said that, em will be less enjoyable as a third year because you won't know quite as much, so it'll be harder to hit the ground running. It's a specialty that draws from all the others

That is the main reason why I wanted to do the EM elective. By that time, I would have done all other core rotations + written the shelf exams for them (except FM).

 

[Redpancreas]

Do the EM elective in your first 6 mo/ block and don't get a SLOE/LOA/anything. Just go in there, put your best foot forward, try to perform at the level of an intern, have some fun with it, and see where it takes you. You'll probably see 4th years getting judged (unfortunately none of that will be high stakes unless you do an early elective) and see how that works and you'll be prepared during the real deal. I see no reason to not do an EM elective if that's what your committed to. The only counterargument would be to use the elective to develop a focused skill like ECG interpretation (cardio elective) or CXR (radiology) or learn a little bit about ortho/etc all of which are useful to EM. The thing with that though is you have all of 4th year to develop those skills.

Semi-related EKG-plug:
I will be honest about EKG interpretation and may offend some people but it seems like too many think they can learn EKGs by looking at some during their rotation and learning from a resident. I'm sorry but EKGs are one of those things you have to actually read a book cover-to-cover for, continuously watch videos about, and then lastly try to get real world experience on floors. If all you do is enroll in a Cardiology elective and expect to be proficient in EKGs by the end of the month without any significant time spent reading, you will be disappointed.

 

[Scrubs101]

Do the EM elective in your first 6 mo/ block and don't get a SLOE/LOA/anything. Just go in there, put your best foot forward, try to perform at the level of an intern, have some fun with it, and see where it takes you. You'll probably see 4th years getting judged (unfortunately none of that will be high stakes unless you do an early elective) and see how that works and you'll be prepared during the real deal. I see no reason to not do an EM elective if that's what your committed to. The only counterargument would be to use the elective to develop a focused skill like ECG interpretation (cardio elective) or CXR (radiology) or learn a little bit about ortho/etc all of which are useful to EM. The thing with that though is you have all of 4th year to develop those skills.

Semi-related EKG-plug:
I will be honest about EKG interpretation and may offend some people but it seems like too many think they can learn EKGs by looking at some during their rotation and learning from a resident. I'm sorry but EKGs are one of those things you have to actually read a book cover-to-cover for, continuously watch videos about, and then lastly try to get real world experience on floors. If all you do is enroll in a Cardiology elective and expect to be proficient in EKGs by the end of the month without any significant time spent reading, you will be disappointed.

Regarding the first part of your answer, would you still recommend doing a rotation in 3rd year to "get a taste" of what it's like if say the school had a 3 month limit for rotations in a specific specialty. So one month for getting to know if you like it or not and 2 months for auditions sub/i's? Or would it be more wise to save all three for auditions/sub-is and just figuring out if you like it through shadowing or something like that?


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[Redpancreas]

Regarding the first part of your answer, would you still recommend doing a rotation in 3rd year to "get a taste" of what it's like if say the school had a 3 month limit for rotations in a specific specialty. So one month for getting to know if you like it or not and 2 months for auditions sub/i's? Or would it be more wise to save all three for auditions/sub-is and just figuring out if you like it through shadowing or something like that?


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Oh, I realize that kind of was OP's predicament. Is the elective time the same time as away time? If so, you definitely need an EM SubI and at least one away I believe but I'm not the expert on EM. This question may be better suited for the EM Residency thread where PD's and EM applicants are quite active.

My initial rec is 1 month elective in 3rd year and 2 for a SubI and an Away rotation. That being said at my school right next door, EM SubI would not be an elective, but a required rotation. If you get a SLOE there, you'll have two electives available (even after using one on third year) to do away rotations.

Also, for you as an incoming student, I think you should decide on EM by middle of third year before your elective. There's no need to be super focused early on. Just don't take any unnecessary gaps in your medical education anywhere to put yourself off cycle.

 

[Scrubs101]

Oh, I realize that kind of was OP's predicament. Is the elective time the same time as away time? If so, you definitely need an EM SubI and at least one away I believe but I'm not the expert on EM. This question may be better suited for the EM Residency thread where PD's and EM applicants are quite active.

My initial rec is 1 month elective in 3rd year and 2 for a SubI and an Away rotation. That being said at my school right next door, EM SubI would not be an elective, but a required rotation. If you get a SLOE there, you'll have two electives available (even after using one on third year) to do away rotations.

Also, for you as an incoming student, I think you should decide on EM by middle of third year before your elective. There's no need to be super focused early on. Just don't take any unnecessary gaps in your medical education anywhere to put yourself off cycle.

Awesome, thank you for the advice! For my school aways and electives both count towards the 3 month max. Yeah I'm definitely getting ahead of myself, it just seems as though a lot of scheduling third and fourth year properly has to do with knowing what specialty you want earlier on(at least that's the feeling i get from SDN). Especially with EM where aways and SLOEs are vital, so I'm just getting curious early on haha. While doing a rotation and "living the life" for a month seems important to do prior to settling on a specialty, i also dont want to be worried about limited sub-i/audition time. But like i said, im getting way too ahead of myself haha.


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[Perfect Hair Day]

Do the EM elective in your first 6 mo/ block and don't get a SLOE/LOA/anything. Just go in there, put your best foot forward, try to perform at the level of an intern, have some fun with it, and see where it takes you. You'll probably see 4th years getting judged (unfortunately none of that will be high stakes unless you do an early elective) and see how that works and you'll be prepared during the real deal. I see no reason to not do an EM elective if that's what your committed to. The only counterargument would be to use the elective to develop a focused skill like ECG interpretation (cardio elective) or CXR (radiology) or learn a little bit about ortho/etc all of which are useful to EM. The thing with that though is you have all of 4th year to develop those skills.

Semi-related EKG-plug:
I will be honest about EKG interpretation and may offend some people but it seems like too many think they can learn EKGs by looking at some during their rotation and learning from a resident. I'm sorry but EKGs are one of those things you have to actually read a book cover-to-cover for, continuously watch videos about, and then lastly try to get real world experience on floors. If all you do is enroll in a Cardiology elective and expect to be proficient in EKGs by the end of the month without any significant time spent reading, you will be disappointed.

What if the cardiology elective is an EKG interpretation course for 4 weeks?

 

[Redpancreas]

I wasn't trying cover all the exceptions so if you just wanted to point that out, you got me!

If it's structured in the form of a course just like a textbook or lecture series is, then sounds like it's good. You'll still likely need to review most of what you learn in class on your own and give yourself homework and if there's a test at the end that's even better,

If it's just seeing patient's rounding (my course description said they teach us EKGs daily) like mine was you won't learn EKGs without significant self study. I know a lot of matched EM 4th years who did Cardio as their last elective with me with the hope of "learning EKGs". That didn't happen.

 

[Redpancreas]

Awesome, thank you for the advice! For my school aways and electives both count towards the 3 month max. Yeah I'm definitely getting ahead of myself, it just seems as though a lot of scheduling third and fourth year properly has to do with knowing what specialty you want earlier on(at least that's the feeling i get from SDN). Especially with EM where aways and SLOEs are vital, so I'm just getting curious early on haha. While doing a rotation and "living the life" for a month seems important to do prior to settling on a specialty, i also dont want to be worried about limited sub-i/audition time. But like i said, im getting way too ahead of myself haha.


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Your school which emphasizes primary care by definition and incorporates minutiae of intubation tubes during down to the tube brands during basic science years that just matched 40+ EM docs (probably most of an osteopathic school) doesn't have a required EM rotation?

 

[Scrubs101]

Your school which emphasizes primary care by definition and incorporates minutiae of intubation tubes during down to the tube brands during basic science years that just matched 40+ EM docs (probably most of an osteopathic school) doesn't have a required EM rotation?

They do! Guess i should probably figure out if that counts towards the 3 month rule. Just from observing the web page dedicated to the "12 week rule" it seems any rotation that peruses the same syllabi (being classified as the same specialty) counts towards it regardless of away/home. Seems as though theres several different EM rotation syllabi for different EM sub-specialties, that may be a loop-hole. Such as
IM 662 Urgent Care
Prompt Care
IM 663 EM/Wilderness Medicine
IM 664 Pediatric Emergency Medicine
IM 665 EM Advanced
IM 666 Emergency Medicine Toxicology
IM 667 EM Hyperbaric Medicine Wound Mgmt
IM 668 EMedicine EMS Disaster Mgmt
IM 669 Emergency Medicine Ultrasound

Edit: ahhhh wait i get it, EM core rotation would be to get a taste in 3rd year. Then EM advanced can be used for 3 months of aways/auditions. My bad, seems as though this is a non-issue.

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