EM Hourly Salaries

[USFOptho]

A few of us were discussing this earlier today around the lunch table; EM salaries are nearly all per hour, right? How much does the hourly salary change as one gets more "seniority" within an ED? If starting hourly rates are around $125, what is the jump like, and what is the ceiling?

Thanks!

P.S. Quinn, see you at TGH!

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[ttusom04]

It does not matter. No ER docs are worth the money they make. They also use high dollar test as will like nobody else. Example: Just today we get called to the ER because of a patient with carpal tunnel. The ER doc ordered $5000.00 worth of tests, actually got an MRI, and still did not have the diagnosis. I am a 4th year medical student and was the first from the team to see the patient. I did not look at any of the labs or radiology reports before I went and saw the patient. The patient told me that he works on the computer and does manual labor. He has pain and tingling in his hand for the last few weeks. The first thing I did was the Tinel percussion test and the Phalen wrist-flexion test. Both were positive. I said you need some NSAIDS, a splint, and go easier on you wrist. I came out of the room and was writing my notes and the ER doc came up to me with the MRI results and said "The radiologist is not sure what the problem is, I think we should get a nerve conduction study". Sure we both would have came to the correct diagnosis. The old fasion way: 5 minutes and $50.00. The ER docs way: 12 hours (not including the nerve conduction study) and about $7500.00 that the patient did not have.

 

[southerndoc]

USF, it really varies.

Where I used to work as a paramedic, the ER docs made anywhere from $120 to $160/hour. At a nearby regional cardiac facility, the ER docs are making close to $200-250/hour.

Have you looked in Ann Emerg Med? There are job offers there. A friend of mine recently signed a contract to work in a Level II trauma center... $250,000 per year working 13 12-hour shifts per month. Not bad... not bad at all! (Especially considering the ED has triple coverage during peak times and double coverage all others.)

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by ttusom04
It does not matter. No ER docs are worth the money they make. They also use high dollar test as will like nobody else.

To answer the OP's question, some ED's are paid via hourly, some are salaried. I know at my institution, some are paid hourly with RVUs, while some, especially the heavy academic ones, are salaried. At a local hospital near my program, the younger attendings, ie non partners, make 200-250k... whereas the "older" attendings, or the partners, make about the same but also do the profit-sharing. This is working about 40-44 hours a week.

Q, DO

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by ttusom04
It does not matter. No ER docs are worth the money they make. They also use high dollar test as will like nobody else. Example: Just today we get called to the ER because of a patient with carpal tunnel. The ER doc ordered $5000.00 worth of tests, actually got an MRI, and still did not have the diagnosis. I am a 4th year medical student and was the first from the team to see the patient. I did not look at any of the labs or radiology reports before I went and saw the patient. The patient told me that he works on the computer and does manual labor. He has pain and tingling in his hand for the last few weeks. The first thing I did was the Tinel percussion test and the Phalen wrist-flexion test. Both were positive. I said you need some NSAIDS, a splint, and go easier on you wrist. I came out of the room and was writing my notes and the ER doc came up to me with the MRI results and said "The radiologist is not sure what the problem is, I think we should get a nerve conduction study". Sure we both would have came to the correct diagnosis. The old fasion way: 5 minutes and $50.00. The ER docs way: 12 hours (not including the nerve conduction study) and about $7500.00 that the patient did not have.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111375

If you scrambled into a PGYI position, are you suppose to sign a contract right away? The NRMP stated that if you did not match and scrambled into a spot, if you did not sign a contract, you are not locked into that spot.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105547

so, the people at bamc were blowing smoke up my ass. Come match day, I found myself crying, after receiving the anal raping that is being assigned eamc surgery. so here is the thing - I know more about australian kangaroo gang rape then I know I know about the eamc general surgery program. Any input, positive or negative, would be greatly appreciated.

ttusom04, I'm sorry you had to scramble.

 

[doc3341]

Does the hourly/salary pay for EM docs include having malpractice insurance paid for or do they have to pay it separate, assuming their not partners?? Also, what is the average yearly malpractice that EM's pay?? Thanks

Just Curious

 

[beyond all hope]

You can be paid by
1) salary
2) per hour
3) per patient (fee for service)
4) various combinations of the above

The rates vary greatly from as little as 70 to as high as 300$/hour.

Malpractice is usually covered, but not always. I don't know what malpractice rates are for EM, but if you're paying for malpractice you're probably making serious $$$ anyway.

 

[USFOptho]

Thanks everyone. I'm not interested in ER (I'm an optho man), but I have several friends that are, and your answers were right on the money (no pun intended).


Oh, and Quinn, Geek Medic: Keep those test orders coming

 

[edinOH]

I think the question really should be who from Texas Tech University School of Medicine 2004 was so dense they were unable to match, uhhm...OBGYN... and were forced to scramble surgery?

 

[FoughtFyr]

Originally posted by edinOH
I think the question really should be who from Texas Tech University School of Medicine 2004 was so dense they were unable to match, uhhm...OBGYN... and were forced to scramble surgery?

Someone who doesn't understand the difference between arriving at a diagnosis (carpal tunnel) and being a physician (nerve conduction tests and imaging being necessary for workingman's compensation verification and/or assessment of severity for surgical consideration). Just a thought.

But hey, what do I know? I just want to be an EP {DROOLING}.

- H

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by FoughtFyr
But hey, what do I know?

I'm sure you know that an MRI of an extremity plus an ER visit and other additional tests do NOT total $5,000.

We charge $500 for our extremity MRI's. We only charge $1500 for a MRA!

Evidently everything is bigger in Texas... including prices... or is it that the lies are bigger?

 

[DrQuinn]

Don't mess with Texas!

Q, DO

 

[Homunculus]

Originally posted by ttusom04
It does not matter. No ER docs are worth the money they make. They also use high dollar test as will like nobody else. Example: Just today we get called to the ER because of a patient with carpal tunnel. The ER doc ordered $5000.00 worth of tests, actually got an MRI, and still did not have the diagnosis. I am a 4th year medical student and was the first from the team to see the patient. I did not look at any of the labs or radiology reports before I went and saw the patient. The patient told me that he works on the computer and does manual labor. He has pain and tingling in his hand for the last few weeks. The first thing I did was the Tinel percussion test and the Phalen wrist-flexion test. Both were positive. I said you need some NSAIDS, a splint, and go easier on you wrist. I came out of the room and was writing my notes and the ER doc came up to me with the MRI results and said "The radiologist is not sure what the problem is, I think we should get a nerve conduction study". Sure we both would have came to the correct diagnosis. The old fasion way: 5 minutes and $50.00. The ER docs way: 12 hours (not including the nerve conduction study) and about $7500.00 that the patient did not have.

what you fail to realize is that the ED isn't a place for most commons. this is probably the biggest adjustment many medstudents have to make. yeah, most commons are on your differential, but "most lethals" are what get eliminated first. it's a difference in philosophy that sets the ED physician apart from other primary care docs.

but anyway, good luck with your medical career. and a word to the wise-- ED physicians, like nurses, can be your best allies or your worst enemies, and they can make your life easier or harder accordingly.

 

[ttusom04]

1)I should not have vented on this thread, sorry.
2)The army assigned me to eamc in december. did not scramble, not that there's anything wrong with that.
3)EM docs make a lot of money. Maybe I'm jealous
4)My point was the ER doc never even went in and set eyes on the patient before the five star workup.

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by ttusom04
1)I should not have vented on this thread, sorry.
2)The army assigned me to eamc in december. did not scramble, not that there's anything wrong with that.
3)EM docs make a lot of money. Maybe I'm jealous
4)My point was the ER doc never even went in and set eyes on the patient before the five star workup.

You knows. If he didn't see the patient beforehand, don't let one rotten apple spoil the whole bunch.

By the way, you'll have a great time at EAMC. I know two of your chiefs and one of your midlevels.

 

[margaritaboy]

Originally posted by ttusom04
4)My point was the ER doc never even went in and set eyes on the patient before the five star workup.

Oh. Then I think one could logically infer that ALL EM docs practice in that manner and that they're all overpaid dopes. Then again, I'm going into EM, I barely have the cognitive strength to type out a complete sentence.

 

[Gleevec]

There has been a lot of talk about specialties impinging on each other's turf. Is there any fear that some kind of IM or FP change (like the new classification of internists) might eventually lead to EM docs losing some turf?

Just curious, since I havent done a rotation in any of those fields, I dont know how much they overlap or if doctors would be interchangeable in that regard. Thanks!

 

[Homunculus]

Originally posted by Gleevec
There has been a lot of talk about specialties impinging on each other's turf. Is there any fear that some kind of IM or FP change (like the new classification of internists) might eventually lead to EM docs losing some turf?

Just curious, since I havent done a rotation in any of those fields, I dont know how much they overlap or if doctors would be interchangeable in that regard. Thanks!

as an outside observer, i don't think so. in fact, as more and more board certified ED physicians are made, the further and further into the boonies FP docs working ER's have to go to find work. *most* places would rather have bc/be ED doc than a bc/be FP doc simply because that's what the ED doc is trained to do.

and internists-- i don't think any system would want an internist in an ED because of their unfamiliarity with peds and OB. besides, internists avoid the ED like the plague, and surely the stronger internists would eat the young sell-out if it ever occured.

 

[uclacrewdude]

if anything, arent we going to be taking on more internal and fp caseloads (at least at first) since the ED is the point of entry for a lot of people without healthcare? thats what i anticipate anyway. part of why i wanna do EM, since id like to serve underreps but still have exciting cases.

 

[canuck MD]

IMHO...any specialist/GP who bad mouths an other specialty/GP ...is just a know it all poopoopotypopilosorus Didn't anyone learn about teamwork in med school! We need each other...badly! So let's stop the bickering and have a big 'ol medical orgy!