EM/IM Dual residency

[vtucci]

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For those of you who have gone the EM/IM route, can you tell us why you decided to take that path and how you see the dual certification helping in your future career?

Also, if there is anyone out there who has done the EM/IM/Critical Care- if you could weigh in as well, that would be great.

 

[Apollyon]

Having been a regular poster, have you searched already? This has been covered more frequently than the weather on the evening news.

 

[iatrosB]

For those of you who have gone the EM/IM route, can you tell us why you decided to take that path and how you see the dual certification helping in your future career?

Also, if there is anyone out there who has done the EM/IM/Critical Care- if you could weigh in as well, that would be great.

you'll find more information in the forum entitled "combined residencies...aka EM/IM"

 

[vtucci]

Having been a regular poster, have you searched already? This has been covered more frequently than the weather on the evening news.

A search for EM/IM or emergency and internal medicine does not yield anything on this forum.

I was also greatly underwhelmed by the response on the combined residency program and thought I might hear a fresh perspective on this forum.

 

[Farbar]

I would just like to say to some of you who spend way to much time on this forum: Somtimes, we who casually browse here, have questions about certain issues. OK, so maybe it has been discussed before, but we were busy then. So if you have no answer to a question than please move on. If you have something to offer than post. I occasionally have a question which is routinely answered with "do a search".
I really don't mean to be ugly. I would like to hear some good answers to the OP's question. Hope everyone is doing well in their internship, residency, 4th year, etc...
Sorry for bad grammar.

farbar

 

[iatrosB]

I would just like to say to some of you who spend way to much time on this forum: Somtimes, we who casually browse here, have questions about certain issues. OK, so maybe it has been discussed before, but we were busy then. So if you have no answer to a question than please move on. If you have something to offer than post. I occasionally have a question which is routinely answered with "do a search".
I really don't mean to be ugly. I would like to hear some good answers to the OP's question. Hope everyone is doing well in their internship, residency, 4th year, etc...
Sorry for bad grammar.

farbar

Just take it in stride dude. Questions always go answered (not something most forums can claim), and responses are helpful, but there is a necessary hazing that occurs first. It's all in good fun, and there are MANY informed posters who will chime in and answer. 👍

 

[iatrosB]

I was also greatly underwhelmed by the response on the combined residency program and thought I might hear a fresh perspective on this forum.

Fair enough

 

[BeerIsGood2Me]

As an intern in a combined program, I have no regrets doing this route. Please ask any questions you may have. With the dual certifications, there is a number of things I can do. For the most part, I am inclined into pursuing an academic career after residency. For some, they like the opportunity to have fellowships open to them such as Cards, GI, etc. As for some combined programs, they allow you the flexibility of doing more electives than a traditional program. At my program there are 6 elective months. I plan on using these 6 elective months to broaden and enhancing my education. Most places have one or two months elective time. Please feel free to message me with any questions. Good luck and follow the dream.

 

[Apollyon]

A search for EM/IM or emergency and internal medicine does not yield anything on this forum.

Not too intrepid on your part, and you strike me as a rather intelligent person. I searched under "dual residency", and got 41 threads, a good number being EM/IM.

 

[vtucci]

Not too intrepid on your part, and you strike me as a rather intelligent person. I searched under "dual residency", and got 41 threads, a good number being EM/IM.

We probably need to hone the search function on this forum then so it picks up items in responses, not just titles, maybe?- I will admit I did not search "dual residency" as I was not interested in searches for peds/EM or Family/EM and assumed that EM/IM or emergency and internal would cover the bases as that is how most of us refer to the combined program in emergency medicine and internal medicine.

However, when I have more time, I will re-run the dual residency search and hopefully, there will be more answers from people actually in a dual program. Thanks.

 

[MushieCookie]

Do interviews for EM/IM programs also go out relatively late?

Any idea on when the 'bulk' of interviews go out?

Thanks.

 

[Febrifuge]

There's a check-box where you can specify "search entire threads" versus searching titles only.

The search function is significantly improved over some of its previous versions.

It's all good though; best of luck and I wish I had more firsthand than "the EM/IM people I know seem okay." My hospital is in (I think) its second year ever of offering the combined residency.

 

[BeerIsGood2Me]

Most interviews go out after the Dean's letter has been released. However, there are some that get interviews well before this. Just be patient. Please feel free to email me as I interviewed at 9 of the 11 combined programs and ended up at one.

 

[VFTW]

why do you guys waste so much time admonishing people for not searching hard enough to find old threads instead of just answering the question? it's really frustrating to see this lack of camaraderie and respect towards newcomers 🙁

 

[Apollyon]

why do you guys waste so much time admonishing people for not searching hard enough to find old threads instead of just answering the question? it's really frustrating to see this lack of camaraderie and respect towards newcomers 🙁

It really frustrates you? Really? Then why don't you find the old threads? And this one thread shows a lack of camaraderie, despite otherwise a whole forum of support for each other? Do you think you're a bit myopic there?

I can't answer the question, because I didn't do EM/IM, and there wasn't an EM/IM program at my residency. We tell people to search, because the question has been answered over...and over...and over...by EM/IM residents. If you'll notice, none have weighed in on this thread. Ergo, the statement to search.

There is no room for sanctimony here. If you don't like it, become the solution.

 

[megawhizz]

Also, if there is anyone out there who has done the EM/IM/Critical Care- if you could weigh in as well, that would be great.

Two of my colleagues completed an EM/IM/CC Residency, and are both practicing as academic ER physicians as well as rounding in the ICUs (surgical and medical). One is heavily in to research as well.

They are considered very valuable to the hospital, both EM and CC departments appreciate their interdepartmental status and the completely new perspective they bring to both departments. As you know, the number of critically ill patients in the ED is rising, they are spending longer times in the hospital, and there is a lot of data showing that EARLY critical care has unmatched sustained outcome benefit.

Henry Ford Hospital was the first to offer the combined program, I believe LIJ and the University of Maryland now offer the same. Their websites have more info.

 

[trisomy55]

It really frustrates you? Really? Then why don't you find the old threads? And this one thread shows a lack of camaraderie, despite otherwise a whole forum of support for each other? Do you think you're a bit myopic there?

I can't answer the question, because I didn't do EM/IM, and there wasn't an EM/IM program at my residency. We tell people to search, because the question has been answered over...and over...and over...by EM/IM residents. If you'll notice, none have weighed in on this thread. Ergo, the statement to search.

There is no room for sanctimony here. If you don't like it, become the solution.

I also find it irritating when people reply 'do a search'. As if they own the forum or something. People have a right to ask a question despite the fact that it might have been answered 2 years ago.

Like another poster said, if you don't feel like adding to a thread then don't add to it.

Maybe there would be more newcomers who felt comfortable posting on this forum if they weren't ripped on by the oldtimers. I include the 'In and Out Burger' and other sarcastic responses in this point.

 

[Apollyon]

Maybe there would be more newcomers who felt comfortable posting on this forum if they weren't ripped on by the oldtimers.

We don't lack for newcomers. If someone isn't comfortable posting on an anonymous internet message board, where will they be comfortable?

 

[oldManDO2009]

so does thew combined residency/dual boarded physician work in the ER and ALSO see patients as an IM doc - seems like a lot of work. I am way to lazy to pull shift work and also follow patients in an out patient setting (probably why I also did not search dual residency)

What is the advantage to this dual status? Or why would some one seek out this type of residency??

old man

 

[megawhizz]

so does thew combined residency/dual boarded physician work in the ER and ALSO see patients as an IM doc - seems like a lot of work. I am way to lazy to pull shift work and also follow patients in an out patient setting (probably why I also did not search dual residency)

What is the advantage to this dual status? Or why would some one seek out this type of residency??

old man

Doing both simultaneously would be very difficult. People do different things with such a residency. Some options include EM with inpatient IM, Academic EM, Research, EM Critical Care, EM Administration, International Medicine (with an ID Fellowship), Chest pain or short stay unit work, etc.

 

[Direct Laryngoscopy]

Having been a regular poster, have you searched already? This has been covered more frequently than the weather on the evening news.

If you don't have first hand knowledge about EM/IM programs, why chime in by saying 'do a search' Just keep it moving and say nothing at all homey. (I'm probably gonna get flamed, but so what) Some of you dudes on the forum really take the FATTY mc whatever (do a search, search function, etc) to new heights. It ain't that serious 🙂

 

[KGUNNER1]

For those of you who have gone the EM/IM route, can you tell us why you decided to take that path and how you see the dual certification helping in your future career?

Also, if there is anyone out there who has done the EM/IM/Critical Care- if you could weigh in as well, that would be great.

Veronica,
I did all three several years ago. We didn't have the combined 6 yr program when I did it, so I did 5 yrs at Henry Ford and 2 yrs at Pitt.

Don't want to sound rude, but if you just search my posts, you'll find several of them covering this specific. Most of them are within a year or two. I can tell you, the climate has only gotten better, and I have always been rather positive in my outlook on this field.

So, if you want, search through my posts, if there is something you want more info on, just email me or post it here.

Currently practicing EM and CC at a busy level 1 trauma center in the South East.

Good luck,
Kyle

 

[FoughtFyr]

There are people who have "dual appointments". I personally know of two physicians working at two different academic centers who split their time between EM and IM. One was a "grandfathered" internist who works "part time" 8-10 shifts in the ED and also serves as one of the hospitalists in an observational medicine unit (an inpatient unit, not an EM obs unit). The other is a EM/IM dual residency trained, dual boarded doc who literally switches off every 2 weeks between an academic ED and a internal medicine teaching service. He tells me the only difference between his inpatient service and that of his IM colleagues is that the IM residents refer to his rounds as "speed rounds".

Both have joked that they have admitted patients to themselves. I always wonder if they have also blocked their own admissions to their own services...

In short, if you'd like to do it, you can probably find an academic center to let you practice both EM and IM.

- H

 

[oldManDO2009]

There are people who have "dual appointments". I personally know of two physicians working at two different academic centers who split their time between EM and IM. One was a "grandfathered" internist who works "part time" 8-10 shifts in the ED and also serves as one of the hospitalists in an observational medicine unit (an inpatient unit, not an EM obs unit). The other is a EM/IM dual residency trained, dual boarded doc who literally switches off every 2 weeks between an academic ED and a internal medicine teaching service. He tells me the only difference between his inpatient service and that of his IM colleagues is that the IM residents refer to his rounds as "speed rounds".

Both have joked that they have admitted patients to themselves. I always wonder if they have also blocked their own admissions to their own services...

In short, if you'd like to do it, you can probably find an academic center to let you practice both EM and IM.

- H

appreciate the reply - I am in my 3rd year and look at this thread with some interest (though not in an attempt to hijack it 🙄)

My base hospital offers dual IM/ER and FP/ER - i was just curious if it offers additional opportunities...

Thanks

oldman

 

[vtucci]

Thanks for all your replies everyone.

IF anyone else has any thoughts on the EM/IM/CC, please let us know.

 

[soccerrocks]

Thanks for all your replies everyone.

IF anyone else has any thoughts on the EM/IM/CC, please let us know.

With all the prior (distracting) posts I had to look back and see what the original question was 😛 I know when I was trying to decide between combined vs. categorical residency I looked through the threads and would have appreciated a fresh post, so I'm just paying it forward.

Trying to figure out whether categorical or combined is hard enough, and then add on an optional third specialty and that's a lot to think about! There are only 3 programs that offer EM/IM/CC - Univ of MD, LIJ, and Henry Ford. From researching it last year I think it is an optional 6th yr at all programs, but you have to make the decision to pursue or not after your intern year. The benefit of the triple program is that you cut 1 year off a 2 year fellowship for board cert in CC. You can check out the ABIM website for more info: http://www.abim.org/cert/comccm.shtm

I'm an intern in a combined program without CC as an option, but I went to MD for med school. There are plenty of 1 and 2 yr CC fellowships out there if you want to pursue extra training after the fact. The 5yr EM/IM has plenty of opportunity for critical care training, just can't be board certified for it. That's the main diff.

Any other questions feel free to PM me 🙂

 

[soccerrocks]

For those of you who have gone the EM/IM route, can you tell us why you decided to take that path and how you see the dual certification helping in your future career?

Also, if there is anyone out there who has done the EM/IM/Critical Care- if you could weigh in as well, that would be great.

I realized I didn't actually answer your original question It took me a very long while to decide to do the combined program. One luxury I had was that there was an EM/IM program at my med school so I took advantage of that. I talked with and shadowed the program director, talked with residents (EM/IM, EM, and IM) but finally made a decision after doing both an EM rotation and my medicine sub-i (I don't think you really get an idea of what it'd be like to do both until you work your a$$ off trying to act like an intern- and still even then it doesn't compare to actual intern yr 😛). Anyhow, I decided to pursue the combined program because it affords an incredible amount of options- both EM and IM fellowships as well as jobs in both fields. It wasn't indecision per se- initially I thought I wanted to practice both hospitalist and EM doc- but there are so many niches to fill it's hard to say exactly what I'll be doing in 4.5 yrs from now. And depending on where you end up for residency the strength of different aspects of training (i.e. EM, US, Tox, medicine subspecialties, etc.) will also influence your ultimate career decision. I honestly don't know if the dual cert will help in my future career if I end up in one field or the other. I see it being of use if I decide to go into academics or CC, but hey, it can't hurt 😀