EM is officially the backup specialty for IMGs

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cyanide12345678

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Received a call from a friend whose img brother is applying for residency. He wants to do IM, didn’t match last year, despite applying to 250 programs. So this time he plans to apply to IM, prelim year, and EM.

Create the residency spots and the applicants will follow. We are the new backup specialty for IMGs - i think the number of IMG applications will soon be increasing dramatically as more IMGs get accepted.

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As it should. IM has more opportunity than EM a basic community IM program can allow you to do Sleep, Nephro, Endo, hospitalist, Rheum, Palliative, Geriatrics and VA ER
 
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As it should. IM has more opportunity than EM a basic community IM program can allow you to do Sleep, Nephro, Endo, hospitalist, Rheum, Palliative, Geriatrics and VA ER
Yep, we've been had
 
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Everybody has been saying this/predicting this since the workforce study came out, and this last year effectively proved it with the caliber of students who filled all those empty positions.

The real question is: what are you gonna do about it?

If you're a medical student: simple, don't go into EM, full stop

If you're an EM resident: truly consider whether you'll be happy doing a fellowship that will get you out of the ED (CCM, Pain, Palliative etc), or if you're really early in your training just eat the time already spent in EM residency and transition to a different specialty (gas, IM, FM etc). OR be one of the rare human beings that can thrive in this specialty, which comes down to the next step:

If you're already an EM doc: find/keep a sane SDG-type job - change jobs NOW before the next 2 years as I predict that's when the pendulum on the job market will have fully swung back, with all desirable jobs locked up. Become FI, and be agile/mobile if your current situation isn't tenable long-term. Alternatively, sack up and take some risk, transition to an entrepreneurial or other venture, or consider doing some other type of low-barrier to entry 9-5 medicine (occ med, addiction, wound care, concierge, whatever). Build that business up, throw in some sweat equity, and eventually after a few years ideally you've re-captured your EM income but with a much better lifestyle.

That's really it. Of course just like the advice to "lose weight" it's simple, but can be incredibly difficult. As we've discussed many times before, the biggest hurdle is giving up the relatively nice EM salary... it's a massive opportunity cost to leave EM. But ultimately if it's your sanity and happiness at stake, well then the decision should be easy.

Either **** or get off the pot - the time is NOW because it's going to get a lot worse.
 
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Everybody has been saying this/predicting this since the workforce study came out, and this last year effectively proved it with the caliber of students who filled all those empty positions.

The real question is: what are you gonna do about it?

If you're a medical student: simple, don't go into EM, full stop

If you're an EM resident: truly consider whether you'll be happy doing a fellowship that will get you out of the ED (CCM, Pain, Palliative etc), or if you're really early in your training just eat the time already spent in EM residency and transition to a different specialty (gas, IM, FM etc). OR be one of the rare human beings that can thrive in this specialty, which comes down to the next step:

If you're already an EM doc: find/keep a sane SDG-type job - change jobs NOW before the next 2 years as I predict that's when the pendulum on the job market will have fully swung back, with all desirable jobs locked up. Become FI, and be agile/mobile if your current situation isn't tenable long-term. Alternatively, sack up and take some risk, transition to an entrepreneurial or other venture, or consider doing some other type of low-barrier to entry 9-5 medicine (occ med, addiction, wound care, concierge, whatever). Build that business up, throw in some sweat equity, and eventually after a few years ideally you've re-captured your EM income but with a much better lifestyle.

That's really it. Of course just like the advice to "lose weight" it's simple, but can be incredibly difficult. As we've discussed many times before, the biggest hurdle is giving up the relatively nice EM salary... it's a massive opportunity cost to leave EM. But ultimately if it's your sanity and happiness at stake, well then the decision should be easy.

Either **** or get off the pot - the time is NOW because it's going to get a lot worse.

Isn’t the EM salary in jeopardy too though? So really are you giving up a nice salary in the long run?

Disappointed that this is how EM is because it was for sure one of the specialties on my radar. Now I am increasingly hesitant to even consider it.
 
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Don't think the powers that be are upset this is what is going down with EM. All they care about is that there are bodies in those spots. They don't care if they're IMGs. In fact, they may prefer it. Can you think of any reasons why?
 
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Isn’t the EM salary in jeopardy too though? So really are you giving up a nice salary in the long run?

Disappointed that this is how EM is because it was for sure one of the specialties on my radar. Now I am increasingly hesitant to even consider it.

Bro.
Let me do you a big favor.
Don't even consider this dumpster fire.
Sure, it looks cool at first.

Most of us here. We all want out. Yesterday.
 
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Bro.
Let me do you a big favor.
Don't even consider this dumpster fire.
Sure, it looks cool at first.

Most of us here. We all want out. Yesterday.
Yea before medschool I scribed at an ED for like 4 years with ED docs that were partners in their practice and they all made like $450,000+. On top of the nice salary the variety of patients everyday kind of enticed me. However with the crap with Mid-levels and everything else I have read, it has me unimpressed and turned away. Lol
 
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Yea before medschool I scribed at an ED for like 4 years with ED docs that were partners in their practice and they all made like $450,000+. On top of the nice salary the variety of patients everyday kind of enticed me. However with the crap with Mid-levels and everything else I have read, it has me unimpressed and turned away. Lol

I made 400k last year. It wasn't worth it with how bad people (patients, admins, everyone) has gotten. I'm getting out.
 
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I'm kind of intrigued by the IMG thing. Smart people, maybe they will find a way to make EM more bearable, or advocate for more fellowships. I hope.
 
How are you getting out??? What are you doing?

I'll tell the forum when it happens. Which should be sooner than you think. The plans are laid. The work is put-in. I should be down to 4 shifts/month for a long time (want to keep my ABEM cert active).
 
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I'll tell the forum when it happens. Which should be sooner than you think. The plans are laid. The work is put-in. I should be down to 4 shifts/month for a long time (want to keep my ABEM cert active).

And here I am creating an onlyfans right now to get out :p Proud of you Fox.
 
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And here I am creating an onlyfans right now to get out :p Proud of you Fox.

Thanks. I'll always want my ABEM cert intact, so there's that. Who knows what the future brings; maybe CMGs die altogether and there's sweeping med-mal reform and I dust off the old fedora and come back full time.

But until there's cosmic change, I am severely limiting my exposure to this radioactive field.

Probably post all about it on here around the holidays. Stay tuned.
 
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I think the only thing keeping me in the game right now is not having to work night shifts.

Nights are so bad for your mental and physical health, that they should be paid out at 2x, in order to be remotely worth the damage to your body and mind.
 
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I'll tell the forum when it happens. Which should be sooner than you think. The plans are laid. The work is put-in. I should be down to 4 shifts/month for a long time (want to keep my ABEM cert active).

Why do you need to do 4 shifts a month for ABEM?
 
I'll tell the forum when it happens. Which should be sooner than you think. The plans are laid. The work is put-in. I should be down to 4 shifts/month for a long time (want to keep my ABEM cert active).

You had gotten out for a year(?) at some point in the past, if I remember correctly. Is this new venture in the same field?

Will you post at some point about your experience during your previous time away from EM?
 
Based on context I'm assuming you mean "net/profit" and not "gross."

No, gross. I gotta pay taxes just like everyone else.
Most of my EM career, I've grossed about that.
I've lived well, no complaints.
If I can hit that mark, and work only 3-4 shifts/month, dedicating the rest of my time to my other gig, then I'm calling it a win.
 
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No, gross. I gotta pay taxes just like everyone else.
Most of my EM career, I've grossed about that.
I've lived well, no complaints.
If I can hit that mark, and work only 3-4 shifts/month, dedicating the rest of my time to my other gig, then I'm calling it a win.
That's my end goal too if investment/401K/side jobs pay as predicted. 4-5 shifts a month to maintain skills, and the rest of the time at the gym and looking after mental health.
 
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I am glad to hear that many on here have looked for income outside and inside of medicine. When you make a good living, have cash waiting, you have lots of options for income streams.

Had a discussion with my wife today and our crazy spending came up. We literally could not live our lifestyle today on my early 400K/yr pretax salary. Inflation has been a killer. Property tax, property insurance, car insurance, food, travel, etc has increased tremendously in the past 2-3 years.

3 teenage kids is crazy expensive.
 
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I'm kind of intrigued by the IMG thing. Smart people, maybe they will find a way to make EM more bearable, or advocate for more fellowships. I hope.

In internal medicine, the IMGs are the ones who will happily dive into horribly abusive sweatshop residencies just to check the box that they did American medical training.

So don’t expect them to improve anything in EM. They’re basically the reason why sweatshop IM residencies exist. Desperate people on visas aren’t likely to complain much.
 
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Once again honored and privileged to be in the presence of the intellectual giants who grace us on this forum. Surely no IMG, FMG or DO could possibly be as qualified as these pinnacles of AMG medical education who look down upon them.

I know this is difficult cuz it gets you all in the feels, but let me spell this out for you:

20 years ago it was extremely difficult to gain acceptance to an American allopathic medical school. There just wasn't the supply of schools. Otherwise qualified people were forced to go to the Caribbean.

Fast forward to now with the abundance of American allopathic and (moreso) osteopath schools , acceptance chances are much higher.

So yes, in 2023, if you have to go to the Caribbean as an American, that is a red flag, and we should guard our speciality against the intrusion of such unqualified individuals.
 
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I'm kind of intrigued by the IMG thing. Smart people, maybe they will find a way to make EM more bearable, or advocate for more fellowships. I hope.
IMGs in my program are really just along for the ride until they match into Cardiology
 
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I know this is difficult cuz it gets you all in the feels, but let me spell this out for you:

20 years ago it was extremely difficult to gain acceptance to an American allopathic medical school. There just wasn't the supply of schools. Otherwise qualified people were forced to go to the Caribbean.

Fast forward to now with the abundance of American allopathic and (moreso) osteopath schools , acceptance chances are much higher.

So yes, in 2023, if you have to go to the Caribbean as an American, that is a red flag, and we should guard our speciality against the intrusion of such unqualified individuals.
The thought that it was more difficult 20 years is incorrect. Applicants now have higher GPAs, MCATs, and more extracurriculars than those in the past. While there are more schools now, there are disproportionately more applicants than before. The acceptance rate for allopathic schools overall is around 40-50% now. I suspect it was higher 20 years ago based on current admissions criteria unless you have data that suggests otherwise.

My comment only applies to allopathic schools.
 
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The matriculation rate for allopathic schools is around 40-50% now. I suspect it was higher 20 years ago based on current admissions criteria unless you have data that suggests otherwise.

My comment only applies to allopathic schools.
If the matriculation rate used to be higher, that would seem to argue that things were in fact more competitive in the past, as that would mean that fewer applicants turned down an acceptance letter back then. I suspect you are confusing matriculation rates and acceptance rates.
 
If the matriculation rate used to be higher, that would seem to argue that things were in fact more competitive in the past, as that would mean that fewer applicants turned down an acceptance letter back then. I suspect you are confusing matriculation rates and acceptance rates.
You are correct. I misunderstood the term, thinking that matriculation implied acceptance to any medical school, but in retrospect, that was obviously wrong.
 
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The thought that it was more difficult 20 years is incorrect. Applicants now have higher GPAs, MCATs, and more extracurriculars than those in the past. While there are more schools now, there are disproportionately more applicants than before. The acceptance rate for allopathic schools overall is around 40-50% now. I suspect it was higher 20 years ago based on current admissions criteria unless you have data that suggests otherwise.

My comment only applies to allopathic schools.
When I applied in 1992, there was 40% acceptance rate - 5 applicants for 2 spots. That held constant for as long as I looked at the numbers (about 6 years). The last time it was a giveaway was in the 70s, and, even then, it wasn't.
 
Early 2000s I think it was 25-33% meaning between 2/3 and 3/4 of applicants didn’t get to go. That may have been just for us med schools. I can’t recall.
 
When I applied in 1992, there was 40% acceptance rate -
In ‘95 when I applied the acceptance rate was 37%, for US medical schools.

I’m surprised I was able to find that data so easily (blue ‘95 link, above). But that’s what it was, 37% (17,357 accepted of 46,591 applicants). Not sure if it’s more or less, now.

On that note, my oldest daughter (17) is now saying she’s “pre-med”! 😱
 
For your year, just Google “Education programs in US medical schools, 1995-1996” and change the years to yours. Pub med will have the JAMA abstract for that year.
 
Actually…The numbers from the years 1965 to 2016 are in the below link.

Just a few examples:

1965: 48% (9021/18703) acceptance rate

1990: 59%

1995: 37% (*Birdstrike year).

2000: 47%

2015: 41%

Not exactly linear.

 
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Actually…The numbers from the years 1965 to 2016 are in the below link.

Just a few examples:

1965: 48% (9021/18703) acceptance rate

1990: 59%

1995: 37% (*Birdstrike year).

2000: 47%

2015: 41%

Not exactly linear.

Yup I was ‘95 as well. There was a recession in the mid 90s and it’s always harder to get into med school during a recession.
 
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