EM makes >$500/hr?!

[needachange2017]

Holy smokes, just hopped over the EM forums and saw their salary per hr data. Average is $200/ hr; in areas of need, $400-500/hr; during holidays, salary can balloon upward to $975/hr.

Mind you, this is only working 12-14 shifts per month. For a 3yr residency, no need for fellowship, i dont think anything beats EM. If they wanted work more shifts, i think they can make more than many specialists. They dont take call in the traditional sense. They don't need to followup. They definitely make more than radiologists as of right now for half the residency time. Unbelievable.

Why would anybody do anything besides EM, if money is what theyre looking for?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Mad Jack]

Holy smokes, just hopped over the EM forums and saw their salary per hr data. Average is $200/ hr; in areas of need, $400-500/hr; during holidays, salary can balloon upward to $975/hr.

Mind you, this is only working 12-14 shifts per month. For a 3yr residency, no need for fellowship, i dont think anything beats EM. If they wanted work more shifts, i think they can make more than many specialists. They dont take call in the traditional sense. They don't need to followup. They definitely make more than radiologists as of right now for half the residency time. Unbelievable.

Why would anybody do anything besides EM, if money is what theyre looking for?

Some people don't want to be working night, weekend, and holiday shifts into their 50s and 60s in a high-liability, high-stress, high-patient load field that is largely under the thumb of hospital administrators and patient satisfaction surveys, where you are often dealing with some of the most difficult patients there are and have no control over the outcome of your patients' care one you send them upstairs or home.

Couldn't pay me enough to do EM.

 

[needachange2017]

Some people don't want to be working night, weekend, and holiday shifts into their 50s and 60s in a high-liability, high-stress, high-patient load field that is largely under the thumb of hospital administrators and patient satisfaction surveys, where you are often dealing with some of the most difficult patients there are and have no control over the outcome of your patients' care one you send them upstairs or home.

Couldn't pay me enough to do EM.

You realize that EM has the option of working community places where you generally dont deal with acute sick patients and still be able to earn that much.

Hospital where i did my IM prelim yr for example, ER doesnt do trauma, peds, or MI. Im sure many non academic EDs are similarly structured. Plus, if you only work 12 shifts a month, burnout is not possible, even in your later yrs.

Plus, many EDs are staffed with NPs and PAs who generally can blunt the patient load for the docs.

 

[PL198]

Bubble gonna pop soon. They're becoming PCP. People getting in now are buying high and setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[Mad Jack]

You realize that EM has the option of working community places where you generally dont deal with acute sick patients and still be able to earn that much.

Hospital where i did my IM prelim yr for example, ER doesnt do trauma, peds, or MI.

In some ways, that can be worse- your skills fade, you miss something that seems minir but is actually a big deal, hello malpractice. And it's boring. And many of the complaints you'll see in the community will be of the most malignant sort. And you're still working nights every second or third week forever, along with weekends and holidays until you retire.

 

[Mad Jack]

Bubble gonna pop soon. They're becoming PCP. People getting in now are buying high and setting themselves up for disappointment.

This is another big factor- most people outside the field don't realize that the fair rate law was repealed, so insurers can pay EDs whatever they want now. This will no doubt lead to a contraction in salaries.

 

[needachange2017]

In some ways, that can be worse- your skills fade, you miss something that seems minir but is actually a big deal, hello malpractice. And it's boring. And many of the complaints you'll see in the community will be of the most malignant sort. And you're still working nights every second or third week forever, along with weekends and holidays until you retire.

You mean to tell me you wouldnt miss xmas day or thanksgiving if they offered you $975/hr for 12 hrs? Thats somebodys MONTHLY check that your earning in one day. Or an extra weekend where youre making $500/hr?

Comon man! Dont BS me dude!

 

[Mad Jack]

You mean to tell me you wouldnt miss xmas day or thanksgiving if they offered you $975/hr for 12 hrs? Thats somebodys MONTHLY check that your earning in one day. Or an extra weekend where youre making $500/hr?

Comon man! Dont BS me dude!

I wouldn't do a third of my shifts on nights for the rest of my life for a 100k pay raise. And, as I noted above, the bottom is likely to fall out of EM salaries soon. It used to be that, because of EMTLA, adequate compensation had to be paid for EM services. That provision was thrown out, so now insurers and the government can pay whatever they feel like, even if it doesn't cover what EM providers deem to be adequate. This will result in different pay rates for different conditions, with primary care type complaints having their compensation lowered from ED "fair" rates to urgent care rates, which are about a third to a quarter of what they're currently getting paid. Given that 90% of ED complaints are of the UC/PCP variety, this will cause some serious downward pressure on wages. This is the golden age of EM, and it'll be over before anyone starting an EM residency today becomes an attending.

 

[meister]

If you entered medicine only for the money then you're in for a big disappointment.

 

[maxxor]

Just wait until the market saturates, and they start cutting costs by using NP/PA like CRNAs and each ER physician supervises.

Many academic centers are already putting hiring freezes into place for attendings...

 

[PL198]

You mean to tell me you wouldnt miss xmas day or thanksgiving if they offered you $975/hr for 12 hrs? Thats somebodys MONTHLY check that your earning in one day. Or an extra weekend where youre making $500/hr?

Comon man! Dont BS me dude!

I feel like you can work typically undesirable hours or days for increased pay or perks in most fields, I don't think that's an exclusive EM thing. I'd gladly work Christmas day for that

 

[Vandalia]

Holy smokes, just hopped over the EM forums and saw their salary per hr data. Average is $200/ hr; in areas of need, $400-500/hr; during holidays, salary can balloon upward to $975/hr.

Why would you do that when Radiologists are making $2M a year for 20 hours a week work?

That is what the rumor mill says where I work. Morale of the story: don't credit what you hear, or what the internet says. There are as many EM physicians making $600/hr as there are Radiologists making $2M/year.

 

[Mad Jack]

I feel like you can work typically undesirable hours or days for increased pay or perks in most fields, I don't think that's an exclusive EM thing. I'd gladly work Christmas day for that

I know a guy that makes 200k plus loan repayment for working every other weekend in the far reaches of a very rural state. And that's in psych. There's opportunity everywhere, if you know where to look.

 

[needachange2017]

Anesthesia doesnt get paid extra for xmas call; surgery doesnt get paid extra for xmas c

Why would you do that when Radiologists are making $2M a year for 20 hours a week work?

That is what the rumor mill says where I work. Morale of the story: don't credit what you hear, or what the internet says. There are as many EM physicians making $600/hr as there are Radiologists making $2M/year.

But the problem is you hear wayyyy more EM docs making >$500/hr than radiologists earning 2 mil a yr, if any at all.

The only thing I hear about radiology is that you cant find jobs....

 

[blebb]

Anesthesia doesnt get paid extra for xmas call; surgery doesnt get paid extra for xmas c



But the problem is you hear wayyyy more EM docs making >$500/hr than radiologists earning 2 mil a yr, if any at all.

The only thing I hear about radiology is that you cant find jobs....

We don't care what you hear about our job market. Go away nerd.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[da8s0859q]

New EM attending.

Some of the oddly high numbers are... odd. Sure, there are folks who make an absurd salary even just a couple years out, but they're the exception. I'd defer to the more recent MGMA and/or Daniel Stern salary surveys for what's more accurate.

Places where people make sky-high rates often are in places where there's a geography issue, staffing issue... similar to what I imagine it's like for most other specialties.

Sure, we can do well partnership in small democratic groups or in the right places, and we do tend to work less than many, but it comes at its own price. Pros and cons like always.

 

[dpmd]

You mean to tell me you wouldnt miss xmas day or thanksgiving if they offered you $975/hr for 12 hrs? Thats somebodys MONTHLY check that your earning in one day. Or an extra weekend where youre making $500/hr?

Comon man! Dont BS me dude!

Hmm. I can work my butt off for 12 hrs or i could get the same money for just being available but relaxing at home 7 days a month (and if i have to actually work i get more money and get to do stuff i enjoy) and get to spend Christmas/thanksgiving with family. Yeah, i think i will stick with my gig.

 

[s109442]

I work in the middle of no where as an ER doc, it causes a strain on my family life. I make $450 work 8 - 24/hr shifts a month. I see trauma, I intubate almost every shift. It's very lonely out here with no back up.

 

[shark2000]

Holy smokes, just hopped over the EM forums and saw their salary per hr data. Average is $200/ hr; in areas of need, $400-500/hr; during holidays, salary can balloon upward to $975/hr.

Mind you, this is only working 12-14 shifts per month. For a 3yr residency, no need for fellowship, i dont think anything beats EM. If they wanted work more shifts, i think they can make more than many specialists. They dont take call in the traditional sense. They don't need to followup. They definitely make more than radiologists as of right now for half the residency time. Unbelievable.

Why would anybody do anything besides EM, if money is what theyre looking for?

What is the point of your post?

 

[needachange2017]

What is the point of your post?

Just wondering why the huge disparity in salary between EM and radiology (as well as other specialties), considering the length of training.

 

[PL198]

Just wondering why the huge disparity in salary between EM and radiology (as well as other specialties), considering the length of training.

You mean the huge disparity in rumors you've been hearing? The numbers would probably be pretty close on the nationwide surveys

 

[needachange2017]

You mean the huge disparity in rumors you've been hearing? The numbers would probably be pretty close on the nationwide surveys

Im not the one spreading rumors.

These are the numbers that are shared by ER attendings in the ER forums. Couple of posts up in this thread, an ER attending, and i quote, "makes $450/hr".

 

[PL198]

Im not the one spreading rumors.

These are the numbers that are shared by ER attendings in the ER forums. Couple of posts up in this thread, an ER attending, and i quote, "makes $450/hr".

Dude is a cowboy in wild west. Hardly the case for most ed docs across country. Again if you want to go to podunk land and be a cowboy you can make more money in all medical specialties not just ed

 

[bronx43]

Insurers are starting to crack down on overbilling by the ED. They used to be able to bill level 3s for everything that comes to their ED, including the hang nails and sprained ankles. They wont' be able to soon. Also, once hospital reimbursements start to get cut, it's over for EM as a ZOMGWTFBBQ money field.

But yes, for now $450/hour for rural ED is still a thing. My friend does this and she flies into BFE twice a month and works a week each time. Pulls 50-70k per month and gets two weeks off. This is obviously the exception and not the rule.

 

[needachange2017]

Insurers are starting to crack down on overbilling by the ED. They used to be able to bill level 3s for everything that comes to their ED, including the hang nails and sprained ankles. They wont' be able to soon. Also, once hospital reimbursements start to get cut, it's over for EM as a ZOMGWTFBBQ money field.

But yes, for now $450/hour for rural ED is still a thing. My friend does this and she flies into BFE twice a month and works a week each time. Pulls 50-70k per month and gets two weeks off. This is obviously the exception and not the rule.

I dont understand why you guys keep on saying 'it's the exception, and not the rule' when multiple and I mean, MULTIPLE, people both in real life and in forums have said the same thing.

When is the last time you heard ER docs says I only make $150/hr?! While reimbursements for multiple specialties such as anesthesia, radiology, etc have gone down, EM keeps climbing up.

 

[DrBowtie]

I dont understand why you guys keep on saying 'it's the exception, and not the rule' when multiple and I mean, MULTIPLE, people both in real life and in forums have said the same thing.

When is the last time you heard ER docs says I only make $150/hr?! While reimbursements for multiple specialties such as anesthesia, radiology, etc have gone down, EM keeps climbing up.

Read the article on the Auntminnie homepage. AMGA survey shows 1.4% increase last year with median salary 135k higher than EM.

 

[PL198]

Read the article on the Auntminnie homepage. AMGA survey shows 1.4% increase last year with median salary 135k higher than EM.

ya but the ED hours are literally probably half. ED making more per hour certainly IMO. don't have a problem with that, just saying. I'll take a little less and avoid the frequent fliers and pain med seekers

 

[dpmd]

ya but the ED hours are literally probably half. ED making more per hour certainly IMO. don't have a problem with that, just saying. I'll take a little less and avoid the frequent fliers and pain med seekers

Considering rads usually get to eat meals and take breaks and stuff I am not sure that you can compare the hours directly. As a surgeon I know my hours don't directly compare.

 

[Strawman123]

ya but the ED hours are literally probably half. ED making more per hour certainly IMO. don't have a problem with that, just saying. I'll take a little less and avoid the frequent fliers and pain med seekers

Current radiologists complain about rads now because it's not as great as it used to be, but nothing is as good as rads used to be.

Old school radiologists at my institution talk wistfully about when they used to put up a chest x-Ray film on the wall and spend 30 minutes analyzing it in detail.

They got paid insane amounts of money for low study volumes 20-30 years ago. Now they get paid very large sums of money to read high study volumes. It's still one of the sweeter gigs there is, just not compared to what it used to be.

 

[colbgw02]

I dont understand why you guys keep on saying 'it's the exception, and not the rule' when multiple and I mean, MULTIPLE, people both in real life and in forums have said the same thing.

When is the last time you heard ER docs says I only make $150/hr?! While reimbursements for multiple specialties such as anesthesia, radiology, etc have gone down, EM keeps climbing up.

Because (almost) all of us realize that a series of anecdotes does not equal data.

 

[Rads312]

To Everyone in this thread:

The OP Posted the following pretty recently:

" Sorry to hijack thread but any advice for A shy TALL normal looking asian guy trying to date hot girls in rads residency? "

I think that kind of says everything.

P.S. - OP, didn't you just transfer from surgery to radiology? Maybe do us all a favor and transfer over to EM. You can make 500 dollars an hour and have an amazing lifestyle like all the other emergency medicine attendings in your fantasy.

 

[Rads312]

"But the problem is you hear wayyyy more EM docs making >$500/hr than radiologists earning 2 mil a yr, if any at all.

The only thing I hear about radiology is that you cant find jobs...."

I thought you WERE a radiology resident...

IF that was actually the truth then you'd know the job market is actually pretty decent at the moment. I have many, many former classmates from medical school that are now EM attendings - and while they do well, I can assure you 500 / hour is likely a number far on the high end of normal even for podunk, idaho.

If you divide by hours, sure , EM probably makes more money than just about everyone. The difference is EM attendings can't work 40-50 hours a week every week until their 60's without complete and total burnout.

No thanks, i'll keep my 50 hours a week chill radiology gig for the rest of my life. And numbers don't lie - we will still 9 times out of 10 out-earn EM attendings.

 

[HandOfMrsRoentgen]

Are there some EM attendings that make absurd amounts of money per hour working undesirable shifts in rural locales? Yes.
Does EM make really good money relative to the number of hours and length of training? Yes.
Do they pay for it by possibly having the most irregular work schedule of any specialty? Yes.
Do radiologists as a whole still make more on average? Yes.

OP, if you are convinced that EM is as great a field as you say, you should go for it. They serve an important role in our health care system, often caring for those with nowhere else to go. I believe they are some of the most versatile doctors as they need to be prepared for anything that enters the door, and are also great in airway situations/codes/critically sick patients. They also see some of the most difficult patient populations, with the highest volumes, in a chaotic environment, and are forced to make difficult decisions with uncertain information (hence the malpractice risk), all while doing a necessarily irregular work schedule. It is not for everyone, and certainly not for me (nor most people here).

I am not really sure what the point of this thread is. You are in the Radiology subforum, most of us here have thought carefully about our specialty choice and have decided that Radiology was the best fit for us. Rads and EM are so different I cannot see anyone who is honest with themselves having a difficult decision between the two.

 

[da8s0859q]

Insurers are starting to crack down on overbilling by the ED. They used to be able to bill level 3s for everything that comes to their ED, including the hang nails and sprained ankles. They wont' be able to soon. Also, once hospital reimbursements start to get cut, it's over for EM as a ZOMGWTFBBQ money field.

But yes, for now $450/hour for rural ED is still a thing. My friend does this and she flies into BFE twice a month and works a week each time. Pulls 50-70k per month and gets two weeks off. This is obviously the exception and not the rule.

To be clear for the OP and other people who aren't getting it in the future, $450/hr and other princely sums aren't common, as bronx said.

Tangential but not really tangential: I do wonder what's going to happen with the above, with reimbursement changes which may be / are coming down the pike. Our local groups have seen upticks in revenue with ACA. Not sure I've seen or read a reliable breakdown which "proves" that our numbers as a specialty are going to fall significantly.

 

[bronx43]

To be clear for the OP and other people who aren't getting it in the future, $450/hr and other princely sums aren't common, as bronx said.

Tangential but not really tangential: I do wonder what's going to happen with the above, with reimbursement changes which may be / are coming down the pike. Our local groups have seen upticks in revenue with ACA. Not sure I've seen or read a reliable breakdown which "proves" that our numbers as a specialty are going to fall significantly.

You can't prove something that hasn't happened yet. It's more about the odds of different events occurring. Can reimbursement for health care corporations continue to be sky high? Sure, absolutely. Will it happen? No one knows, but the economic pressures of having a bloated health care system can only accelerate as the macroeconomics of the US and the world at large becomes more hectic and uncertain. There has been a trend for Medicare fee scheduling cuts over the past decade and half, and I don't foresee that stopping any time soon. If anything, I would expect accelerating cuts on the horizon. The question then becomes if these cuts will happen to hospitals instead of just individual physicians. I say yes, but it's not something I or anyone else can prove.

 

[Radz123]

Why was this posted on a radiology forum again?

 

[blebb]

Why was this posted on a radiology forum again?

Dumb a$$ med student trollin


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile