EM Program(s) With Research Track?

[nosugrefneb]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Howdy. I'll start with the obligatory apologies for any repeat here of previous questioning, which didn't yield much except for the single UCSF post.

I just started a PhD in cancer biology and have been developing an interest in EM. I was at a conference the other day on various research options in IM, which is another interest of mine, and, in particular, certain programs have fast tracks with an abbreviated residency appointment, leaving protected time for research during a fellowship and providing certain benefits like guaranteed fellowship acceptance, guaranteed junior faculty position, etc.

My question is: Do any (other) EM programs have anything remotely similar to this in terms of the formal structure of the program? If not, is simply doing a research fellowship following residency the next best bet? ERMudPhud? Hard24Get? Anything you two know of? Also, with the birth of this new UCSF program, do you think this type of thing will be more common eventually?

 

[southerndoc]

Most programs will allow you to use elective time for research, but there is no fast track option in EM that I am aware of.

 

[TysonCook]

Probably would be allowed if you specified what you wanted to research, how you were going to do it, and time frames etc. Here at Carolinas there is quite a bit of research and different people that are very flexible in what you can do (and a research fellowship). I do know that one of our attendings did the research fellowship (usually 2 years), and completed it in one, making for a 4 year total residency+fellowship.

Hope this helps.🙂

 

[FoughtFyr]

The Mayo Clinic program would have two options for you. The first would simply be to do research as a resident. We can have up to three protected months (temporally separated) to do a project. There is extensive financial, administrative, and educational support available. Should you wish to complete a more formal program, there is a two year fellowship available for ANY Mayo Resident including EM (to be fair, no EM resident has yet applied). The fellowship occurs inside your residency, which is extended as needed (up to two years) to cover the time spent in research. The fellowship is fully financially supported (Mayo has a HUGE research endowment) and you are set up with appropriate lab, mentorship, and administrative support. I know of two surgery residents who took the fellowship, each only had to extend their residency 1 year but YMMV.

The EM department is really dedicated to research, so Mayo might be a good fit for you. You wouldn't be our first MudPhud either, we've had several. In fact, one of my classmates (and current chief) was a Schweitzer Fellow before coming to EM.

- H

 

[WestcoastMedicine]

Albert Einstein MC in Philadelphia offers a Research Fellowship for EM Residents. I'm not sure if this is quite what your looking for though:

http://www.einstein.edu/emergency/education/article5527.html

 

[Hard24Get]

Hiya:

Honored to be called out 😀
Ashamed not to have much of an answer 😳

But here are my thoughts as a humble fellow mudphud candidiate, (ERmudphud will have better stuff, I'm sure):

Short tracking in IM is more for subspecialization, which is not emphasized in EM. As I understand it, even those who complete EM fellowships (ie toxicology, etc) still practice general EM, which means you need to be comfortable with just about everything clinically. In contrast, GI docs are free to focus on the bowel and thus don't need as much general IM training. This being an argument AGAINST any program that would sacrifice too much clinical training to research. This is why I would be surprised to see a lot of "short-tracking" in EM. Moreover, guaranteed junior faculty positions are generally BS given out by barely burgeoning research depts. You will want that faculty position based on your recent work, not medical school.

So, if you are not planning to specialize within EM, a research-friendly program like Denver/Mayo/Penn/WashU//Michigan/Brigham/JHU/Einstein/Christiana, etc + research fellowship beats the IM short track hands down. If you do want a fellowship, many include copious research time, so I don't think you can lose either way.

BTW, I recommend spending some time in the ED and on IM rounds during your PhD - you will soon see that these two fields are VERY different, and likely be able to chose between the two early on.

Howdy. I'll start with the obligatory apologies for any repeat here of previous questioning, which didn't yield much except for the single UCSF post.

I just started a PhD in cancer biology and have been developing an interest in EM. I was at a conference the other day on various research options in IM, which is another interest of mine, and, in particular, certain programs have fast tracks with an abbreviated residency appointment, leaving protected time for research during a fellowship and providing certain benefits like guaranteed fellowship acceptance, guaranteed junior faculty position, etc.

My question is: Do any (other) EM programs have anything remotely similar to this in terms of the formal structure of the program? If not, is simply doing a research fellowship following residency the next best bet? ERMudPhud? Hard24Get? Anything you two know of? Also, with the birth of this new UCSF program, do you think this type of thing will be more common eventually?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Orlando has a fellowship in research IIRC and on top of that they do quite a bit of pharma research which isnt super common in EDs.

 

[BKN]

Howdy. I'll start with the obligatory apologies for any repeat here of previous questioning, which didn't yield much except for the single UCSF post.

I just started a PhD in cancer biology and have been developing an interest in EM. I was at a conference the other day on various research options in IM, which is another interest of mine, and, in particular, certain programs have fast tracks with an abbreviated residency appointment, leaving protected time for research during a fellowship and providing certain benefits like guaranteed fellowship acceptance, guaranteed junior faculty position, etc.

My question is: Do any (other) EM programs have anything remotely similar to this in terms of the formal structure of the program? If not, is simply doing a research fellowship following residency the next best bet? ERMudPhud? Hard24Get? Anything you two know of? Also, with the birth of this new UCSF program, do you think this type of thing will be more common eventually?

The grandaddies of the IM/clinical scientist programs started at Hopkins and it's progeny (Rockefeller, NIH, Ann Arbor) and they have kind of the same structure to this day in several "Ivies". That is the research part occurs within or after a clinical training program. Typical example was Hopkins when I was there in the 70's. A IM resident who wanted this would do 3 years of IM then 2-3 years in an NIH fellowship which would get him both a clinical subspecialty and lab experience then followed by an Assistant Chief of Service year, in which he would own one of the four general IM public ward services. The surgeons had a simlar set up as did the pediatricians. Call these programs the "gold standards" for academic/investigative medicine.

My point is that these are not "fast tracks". In fact it takes years and when you get done you are ready for an appointment as a mid level faculty and to set up your own lab.

The descendents of these programs at other schools (and how they differ from the gold standards) are:
1. Subspecialty fellowships without much research training (shorter and far more common, designed for clincians, not researchers),
2. Chief Residency (may be an additional year after primary board training or may just be an administrative/teaching appointment in the last year of primary residency), or
3. MD-PhD (at the medical school level, little specificity to your eventual career choice and you still need the specialty training afterwords).

In EM there are several research fellowships most have a clinical in emphasis, a couple are basic science. I believe that all require a year after residency. Because EM training covers a very broad front (call it 50% of all other specialties), it's hard to imagine that much time could be freed up to fast track the research experience.

I guess the point is that if you want to do the academic investigator thing, it's a long haul and you need to get research experience of some kind.

Also, it's pretty hard to integrate that training well with the clinical training except at primary research hospitals (NIH, Rockefeller).