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For those of us applying this year and casting a wide application net, I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering...What programs are in trouble or facing loss of accreditation?
I think USC relatively recently changed their program format, they're probably on probationary status because they're a "new program"...
Or perhaps, like other county programs in that area of California that have closed, they rely on residents to do basic technician tasks. The plus side of a county program is you "get to do it all and see it all." The downside is you have to do it all and see it all. Not to mention you are unlikely to learn any of the customer service skills that ensure success, for better or for worse, at most community jobs in the country.
I had a good friend at MLK/Drew when it closed. He knew it was in trouble when he signed on but the location was very good for him. It was a very big deal to go to another program when it did go under. I wouldn't go to a program under probation unless I couldn't match anywhere else, even one with a reputation like USC's. Residency programs can and do close all the time and those residents then go begging for any spot they can get.
The reasons for our probationary status are complicated, but rest assured have nothing to do with the education or having to do "basic technician tasks." For a county institution, we are amazingly scut free (i.e. you will never have to draw your own labs, do your own EKG, push people to CT or Xray, etc). We have been very candid with all applicants and rotators about the reason for our probation and have been nothing but open in our discussions about it. Our program director has made it a point to bring it up unsolicited with every student, interviewer, and rotator who comes through, and allay any concerns they might have.
Our probation had to do with politics at the administrative level and some discontent amongst the faculty with the leadership of the department. The concerns of the ACGME were specific to one person in the department. With the resignation of our Chair, the department and our program director firmly believe that the probationary status will be lifted at the end of this year. The overall sentiment of the department including faculty and residents is that this change was for the best. The causes of the probation had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the education, pathology, or the enthusiasm of the residents in serving our population which have remained unchanged throughout all this. All the crazy stories your hear about "Big County" are true...come check it out for yourself (don't just take my word or some other random person on the internet's word). The department and the hospital are NOT imploding as some might believe.
Anyway...for the rotators and applicants, if you guys have any questions or concerns about this issue when you come by our hospital, feel free to ask ANY of us our thoughts, feelings, and details on the matter...we are more than happy to share! We're really excited about where we are and where we're headed at this program!
No no no, this has to be in error. USC is a top-ten program according to Doximity. Someone should let the RRC know about that, I'm sure they'd clear it right up.USC? Surprising. Wonder why.
Probation because of an issue with one person? Not sure I buy it. At any rate, if they're not under probation by the time you submit your rank list, I guess there's nothing to worry about, right?
Still, if I'm applying to 30 programs, get interviews at 15, and would be happy at 12 of them, why bother with the only one on probation? Seems like an easy screen for the top applicants.
"Okay, 140 programs. Let's start by throwing out all the ones on probation. Now we just have 138. Crap, how am I going to find one I like now?"
I'm sure USC will be fine, but I wouldn't bet my residency on it. You may feel differently. Or perhaps its a chance for a mediocre applicant to slip into a "top 10 program" since many top applicants will be scared away by the probationary status. Dunno.
Nope. We're taking all the good ones.You are entitled to your opinion. But the fact is, that after an exhausting investigation by the ACGME which included interviews with every single active faculty member and non-intern resident, along with interviews with past faculty members, there were 4 citations made against the program. Three of these citations had to do specifically with the Chair of the department and his conduct. The other citation is a commonly made citation against county programs which had to do with throughput time in the ER (see the Code Black documentary). Immediately after the notification by the ACGME of the specifics of these citations, our Chair resigned and was replaced by Ed Newton who was the former chair for 10 years and whose name you may recognize from the front cover of Rosen's textbook. He is an amazing person, leader, educator, and physician.
It has also been made clear to us that our probationary status would not be taken off by the time rank lists come out...this is just the facts. The ACGME notified us of their recommendations in early August and will be returning for another site visit some time in February to evaluate actions taken to rectify the causes of our probation. Their response to this site visit is expected to return some time in June or July at which time we fully expect to have the probationary status removed. As you can see, this time table means that we will still be on probation come rank list time, but is merely a reflection of the ACGME's scheduled visits, and not necessarily our actual compliance.
There may be 167 programs to choose from, but I don't think they were all created equal...just my opinion though. Anyone who sees our Emergency Department and program will likely agree with this. And lastly, if "stats" and "scores" are any indication of the quality of applicants, this year will turn out to be one of the most competitive ever at our program with over 800 highly qualified applicants. I've worked with many of the rotators so far this year and can attest to the fact that we will have no trouble at all filling our spots with the best med schools have to offer, and have conversely received amazing feedback from the students.
You are entitled to your opinion. But the fact is, that after an exhausting investigation by the ACGME which included interviews with every single active faculty member and non-intern resident, along with interviews with past faculty members, there were 4 citations made against the program. Three of these citations had to do specifically with the Chair of the department and his conduct. The other citation is a commonly made citation against county programs which had to do with throughput time in the ER (see the Code Black documentary). Immediately after the notification by the ACGME of the specifics of these citations, our Chair resigned and was replaced by Ed Newton who was the former chair for 10 years and whose name you may recognize from the front cover of Rosen's textbook. He is an amazing person, leader, educator, and physician.
It has also been made clear to us that our probationary status would not be taken off by the time rank lists come out...this is just the facts. The ACGME notified us of their recommendations in early August and will be returning for another site visit some time in February to evaluate actions taken to rectify the causes of our probation. Their response to this site visit is expected to return some time in June or July at which time we fully expect to have the probationary status removed. As you can see, this time table means that we will still be on probation come rank list time, but is merely a reflection of the ACGME's scheduled visits, and not necessarily our actual compliance.
There may be 167 programs to choose from, but I don't think they were all created equal...just my opinion though. Anyone who sees our Emergency Department and program will likely agree with this. And lastly, if "stats" and "scores" are any indication of the quality of applicants, this year will turn out to be one of the most competitive ever at our program with over 800 highly qualified applicants. I've worked with many of the rotators so far this year and can attest to the fact that we will have no trouble at all filling our spots with the best med schools have to offer, and have conversely received amazing feedback from the students.
How weird, an emergency doc who thinks his or her residency program is the greatest one in the country. I agree that not all programs are created equal. Some for instance are on probation. Others, require you to stay for an extra year. Occasionally, you see one with both issues.
I'm not surprised to hear about throughput issues at a county program. I didn't interview at USC (3 year programs only) but did at Harbor UCLA, and the less-emergent patients there showed up with a pillow and 3 sack meals when they came to the ED. 24 hour waits were not uncommon.
So, are you (or someone who interviewed there) going to say what the PD did to get the program on probation? At this point we're all assuming he slept with one resident, killed another, and blackmailed the mayor.
I'm also curious if 800 applicants is unusual for a residency program. I mean, if there are 167 programs, and maybe an average of 12 residents per program, and most people apply to 50 programs, it would seem to me that having more than 600 applications would be normal for a residency program, especially a large program located in California. Or is that 800 highly qualified applicants, plus another 1000 qualified applicants, plus another 1000 unqualified applicants? I mean, I don't recall the exact numbers at my program, but it seems like we interviewed 10 for every position we had, and most applicants didn't even get offered an interview. I assume most programs are similar.
Like I said, despite my giving you a hard time, I'm sure USC is a great program and those who go there will be just fine. But I recall hearing similar things about how Drew was awesome despite being on probation the year I applied.
+1Again, does anyone have any information on Shreveport?
and what about Shreveport?
For anyone applying to these programs it is probably wise to consider your source. Unless you hear it from the ACGME themselves, it is likely very few people know specifically why certain programs are on probation. It doesn't mean stay away, it just means there better be a reward for the risk you are taking.
As far as programs openly discussing probation: isn't that what you'd expect them to do? If I was a progam director I'd make darn sure everyone knew the side of the story that situated my program in the best position for future success. That side of the story would sound identical to we're hearing on here which is: everything is perfect here expect one thing and it is now fixed!
It may very well be true, but it is the same story anyone would be telling even if it wasn't. I'd ask the residents and people who rotated at USC to consider where they got their information from, the ACGME? or the Program Director? Do you truly know exactly what was on the ACGME report?
I'm not telling anyone to avoid USC or calling anyone on here dishonest. I'm just trying to say that there is SOME risk in this situation.
I wouldn't consider having my name next to Rosen as a positive, just saying.
That being said, it is a very well known program in a location some people love with a very distinct set of pathology and educators. The reward is likely high.