EM Residency and National Guard Commitment

[docB]

A friend of mine is about to graduate med school and wants to do EM but he has a Guard commitment and will be deployable during the time when he'd be doing residency. Does anyone know anything about the ins and outs of applying for an EM residency with a Guard commitment?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted109597]

So, I haven't seen any actual literature saying that you are deployable, and most Guard stuff says explicitely that they won't deploy you. Even the Reserve uses that line. Granted, they all don't mean it in case of global thermonuclear war, but hey, any doc is eligible at that point.

 

[lucky_deadman]

So, I haven't seen any actual literature saying that you are deployable, and most Guard stuff says explicitly that they won't deploy you. Even the Reserve uses that line. Granted, they all don't mean it in case of global thermonuclear war, but hey, any doc is eligible at that point.

When I spoke with the guard, they have explicitly said they don't deploy residents.

One of my co-residents is ex-army and now in the Guard. The rest of his unit has been deployed recently. He remains firmly in the residency without mention of deployment.

 

[Seaglass]

Having spoken with this person, they are applying for a special position which may be deployable so assuming that it was a position in which you really might be deployed what would you think. This person also may be involved in taking some time off in blocks during 3rd and 4th years of med school - what do you think, good idea or not?

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Having spoken with this person, they are applying for a special position which may be deployable so assuming that it was a position in which you really might be deployed what would you think. This person also may be involved in taking some time off in blocks during 3rd and 4th years of med school - what do you think, good idea or not?

If the Med student is in a non-physician position, such as bullet catcher (infantry), then he may be deployed as such. If in med school on a NG scholarship, then will not be deployed. Many medics/corpsmen in the reserves are in school and can be called up as medics/corpsman, because the military does not know they are in med school/residency.

So, if applying to fill a job that is not as an MD/DO and is a deployable position, then they could be mob'd. In short, if the NG does not know the person is a med student/resident, they can be deployed according to their classification.

That is a lot of if's, but it is a little hypothetical.

 

[Tiger26]

If the Med student is in a non-physician position, such as bullet catcher (infantry), then he may be deployed as such. If in med school on a NG scholarship, then will not be deployed. Many medics/corpsmen in the reserves are in school and can be called up as medics/corpsman, because the military does not know they are in med school/residency.

So, if applying to fill a job that is not as an MD/DO and is a deployable position, then they could be mob'd. In short, if the NG does not know the person is a med student/resident, they can be deployed according to their classification.

That is a lot of if's, but it is a little hypothetical.

Well said--I'm in the NG in a med student slot and am non-deployable until residency is over

It's in a policy letter from the surgeon for the national NG command, which is by and large pretty iron clad. With that said, a policy letter ceases to be effective if someone new changes the policy . . . . .

 

[docB]

I believe my friend is in a situation where he would have a non-MD level guard commitment and thus could be deployed. Will EM residencies even look at someone who might be deployed?

 

[spyderdoc]

A friend of mine is about to graduate med school and wants to do EM but he has a Guard commitment and will be deployable during the time when he'd be doing residency. Does anyone know anything about the ins and outs of applying for an EM residency with a Guard commitment?

Geez DocB, whay don't you just look it up in the FAQ section? Give me a F Alex....Just kidding, but I couldn't resist...

 

[docB]

Geez DocB, whay don't you just look it up in the FAQ section? Give me a F Alex....Just kidding, but I couldn't resist...

We have a FAQ?

 

[deleted109597]

I believe my friend is in a situation where he would have a non-MD level guard commitment and thus could be deployed. Will EM residencies even look at someone who might be deployed?

Depends on how they word it. If you tell them you have a commitment, most don't ask. If you tell them you might be deployed, that would be like telling them you are planning on having a kid and will need time off, and it probably won't be looked upon highly simply because of graduation rates and CME funding.

I would say don't enlist, but instead take a commission in something that will defer deployment. However, serving may be important to the person in question.

 

[dogpython]

as far as i understand as others have stated is you're only nondeplyable during residency if your in the ASR program, anything else leaves you open to being deployed

does anyone have any experience with managing drill during residency?

 

[greytmedic]

Having been employed while deployed in the National Guard I have used the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act. The USERRA states that an employer can not discriminate against persons due to their service in any uniformed services. I am not sure how residency applies since it is kind of in between employment and education. The best advice I could offer is to look at this website
and contact his Guard unit's Judge advocate. They would be able to spell out all the ins and outs of the act or other information that would be needed for Guard service while in residency (drill, AT, etc)

 

[deleted109597]

Having been employed while deployed in the National Guard I have used the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act. The USERRA states that an employer can not discriminate against persons due to their service in any uniformed services. I am not sure how residency applies since it is kind of in between employment and education. The best advice I could offer is to look at this website
and contact his Guard unit's Judge advocate. They would be able to spell out all the ins and outs of the act or other information that would be needed for Guard service while in residency (drill, AT, etc)

Yes, but you would have a hard time proving that they were discriminated simply because they were uniformed. Yes, it is illegal to fire them if they are already a resident, and then get deployed, but unless there is a memo that says "don't rank this guy because he might get deployed", there wouldn't be much to stand on. Remember, it is illegal for them to discriminate based on family status, but that doesn't stop every surgery program from asking it either. Don't ever give anyone a reason to rank you poorly.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Don't ever give anyone a reason to rank you poorly.

bump, for clarity.

Meaning don't bring up a non-deployable commitment when applying or what?

 

[deleted109597]

Meaning if you are deployable, I wouldn't just toss that on the table. The non-deployable conditions shouldn't hurt you unless you're applying to Berkeley or Columbia or the like.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Meaning if you are deployable, I wouldn't just toss that on the table. The non-deployable conditions shouldn't hurt you unless you're applying to Berkeley or Columbia or the like.

Curious: Was this person in a deployable position? The Army and Reserve equire MD/DOs to be put in physician slots, so would be automatically nondeployable while in residency. I doubt the NG is much different, but that does not stop bureaucratic SNAFU's.

And, I agree that when applying for job/position, be circumspect when mentioning military commitment. Some people are supportive, others actively discriminate.

 

[notdeadyet]

And, I agree that when applying for job/position, be circumspect when mentioning military commitment. Some people are supportive, others actively discriminate.

Question from a med student: when filling out paperwork to apply in the match, isn't there a section asking about military service?

Just curious. I'm considering a National Guard program (non-deployable) and would honestly answer if asked, but not sure I'd mention it if it didn't come up. I'm wondering if your application contains information that would be a "tell" anyway (military service section, etc.).

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Question from a med student: when filling out paperwork to apply in the match, isn't there a section asking about military service?

Just curious. I'm considering a National Guard program (non-deployable) and would honestly answer if asked, but not sure I'd mention it if it didn't come up. I'm wondering if your application contains information that would be a "tell" anyway (military service section, etc.).

You are right; the ERAS asked about military commitment. Since most HPSP/FAP/and NG are non-deployable during residency training, most programs don't care since it does not affect them. It helps if there are prior service attendings. If the program has some anti-military wackos, you can't win even if have short hair. But they are rare in EM.

Once you graduate and are deployable, attitudes may change. In my prior medical experience, being reserve was a resume enhancer for some jobs, and a resume killer for others. EM has a lot of prior service people so it is generally helpful. Discrimination against veterans and Reserve/NG is illegal, but proving it is not easy.

 

[notdeadyet]

You are right; the ERAS asked about military commitment. Since most HPSP/FAP/and NG are non-deployable during residency training, most programs don't care since it does not affect them.

Yeah, this is what I was getting at.

To Mr. Freeze's point: if you are non-deployable, I'd be proactive and bring it up directly at your interview. If you don't, there's a good chance that an interviewer will assume that you are deployable and will not raise the question out of fear of it being interpreted as discrimination if you aren't chosen.

In my prior medical experience, being reserve was a resume enhancer for some jobs, and a resume killer for others.

I find it hard to blame them, though. Back in the old days, when being activated meant being pulled up for a week or so to help out with forest fires or floods is one thing. Nowadays, hiring a National Guard physician means hiring someone who will be off your schedule every 18 months for four months. That's not exactly what you're looking for in a new hire.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Yeah, this is what I was getting at.

To Mr. Freeze's point: if you are non-deployable, I'd be proactive and bring it up directly at your interview. If you don't, there's a good chance that an interviewer will assume that you are deployable and will not raise the question out of fear of it being interpreted as discrimination if you aren't chosen.

I find it hard to blame them, though. Back in the old days, when being activated meant being pulled up for a week or so to help out with forest fires or floods is one thing. Nowadays, hiring a National Guard physician means hiring someone who will be off your schedule every 18 months for four months. That's not exactly what you're looking for in a new hire.

Agreed. These are real issues that are hard to ignore. I have found some companies that bend over backward to support their people who deploy. But, before bragging about service and our commitments, we must know our audience.

 

[dogpython]

this may be an impossible question, but does anyone have any idea of around what percentage of NG physicians (specifically EM) have actually been deployed during the past several years to Iraq/Afghanistan/etc?

 

[deleted6669]

this may be an impossible question, but does anyone have any idea of around what percentage of NG physicians (specifically EM) have actually been deployed during the past several years to Iraq/Afghanistan/etc?

those I know(who are not residents) the # is 100%....ditto trauma surgeons....

 

[notdeadyet]

this may be an impossible question, but does anyone have any idea of around what percentage of NG physicians (specifically EM) have actually been deployed during the past several years to Iraq/Afghanistan/etc?

EM and Flight surgeons both seem to be about 100%. Current tempo is 90 days boots-in-sand (up to 120 days gone from the job for pre-/post-op duties) every 18 months.

 

[deleted109597]

Depends on which state. TN actually had quite a few docs trying to go overseas, and some of them ended up in Japan and Germany instead of in the sandbox. They actually had too many doctors. It was 1 deployment per 30 months for awhile there. Now its closer to 24 months.
Each state is different, so you have to consider that.
I'll echo the "know your audience" statements.

 

[dogpython]

slightly different topic, but how do yall feel about the conditions for getting a job post-residency, (ie when you are now deployable in the ASR program), do think it will hurt your chances for a getting hired, are there enough jobs open it doesn't matter, will it hurt you in more "competitive" markets? thanks!

 

[DogFaceMedic]

slightly different topic, but how do yall feel about the conditions for getting a job post-residency, (ie when you are now deployable in the ASR program), do think it will hurt your chances for a getting hired, are there enough jobs open it doesn't matter, will it hurt you in more "competetive" markets? thanks!

I can't tell you about the civilian EM market because I'm not done yet. But, before I wandered into medicine, my USAR cost me a civilian job, but gave me another great job because the guy who hired me actually worked in the USAR for one of my former commanders. (I was downsized later by a different boss. Life happens, so I went to med school.)