EM residency application help

[SillyWabbit]

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I am applying to EM, have only gotten 6 interviews at this point. Have been waitlisted at 3 other programs for interviews. I am only applying to MD programs even though I am a DO. My step 1 and step 2 scores are 231 and 236. Am I screwed at this point? I have considered applying to some IM programs as well, is it too late for that? Can't remember the last time I was this stressed. Any advice would help. I have called a few programs that I have not heard back from, but really havent gotten any positive responses from them.

 

[shoal]

sorry to hear your trouble in applying.EM is competitive, and if you received poor advice, I feel your pain.

At this point, you have to be happy with what you have and make the best of it. A year improving your application and reapplying isn't the worst thing in the world -- I know, I'm doing it. You just need one match, so make the best of your 6 interviews.

As for applying to more programs, it is too late. IM program interviews are full, and you would have very little return on your investment for your cost. Is IM something you want to do, or is EM?

Hopefully someone cancels and you can increase those numbers interview numbers.

Your scores are good, but you are a DO student. Is it too late to apply to DO program? If not you may want to consider doing that.

Lastly, the scramble is a pile of pooh. Don't expect anything to come from it, unless you are willing to compromise significantly.
Good luck!

 

[gman33]

Not much you can do now, except to do well on your interviews.
You can follow up with places you haven't heard back from, but that's probably not very high yield.

You might get some more interviews later in the cycle as people cancel last minute.

 

[danzman]

I am applying to EM, have only gotten 6 interviews at this point. Have been waitlisted at 3 other programs for interviews. I am only applying to MD programs even though I am a DO. My step 1 and step 2 scores are 231 and 236. Am I screwed at this point? I have considered applying to some IM programs as well, is it too late for that? Can't remember the last time I was this stressed. Any advice would help. I have called a few programs that I have not heard back from, but really havent gotten any positive responses from them.

FWIW I applied to 60 programs this year, MD and DO. We have similar scores, my step 1 is a little lower but my step 2 is a little higher, above average COMLEX's. one SLOR, a strong letter from a DME, and 2 faculty. I have gotten about 15 interviews at DO programs and 4 MD so far. I had my stuff in on the first day of the cycle and there are about 15-20 programs I have not heard back from yet (mostly DO), the rest were flat out rejections. From the interview trail I have found that most DO places are getting between 150 and 300 applications for 4 to 10 spots, while the MD spots are getting 400-800 for a few more spots though. I find that quite a few of the DO programs are only interviewing people that rotate there and surprisingly many of them expect you to do multiple months. The programs that will consider you without an audition month seem to be in the northeast.

One thing that multiple residents have cautioned me about is dropping out of the DO match, as it seems many of them did not match and had to do a TRI year to get into a DO program (thus making something that should take 3 years take 5).

In your case it seems a bit late to get the DO ball rolling and more importantly, you would be forced to opt out of the MD match at some point. I would take my 6 MD interviews and hope for the best knowing that there will be many cancellations as the dates progress. If you didn't match there are always DO TRI's floating around at programs that have EM residencies also.

Put it this way, if you got your application in by the end of the month you would have less than a month to go on interviews in the DO world anyway. How many do you honestly think you could go to? Also, most of the nicer DO programs have already filled up their interview days.

 

[coffeeeandtea]

I am applying to EM, have only gotten 6 interviews at this point. Have been waitlisted at 3 other programs for interviews. I am only applying to MD programs even though I am a DO. My step 1 and step 2 scores are 231 and 236. Am I screwed at this point? I have considered applying to some IM programs as well, is it too late for that? Can't remember the last time I was this stressed. Any advice would help. I have called a few programs that I have not heard back from, but really havent gotten any positive responses from them.

How many programs total did you apply to? How many SLORs did you have? Did you rotate at any of the places where you got interviews?

I was thinking about only going for the NRMP match even though I'm a DO also, but now I'm not so sure... I got a 240 on Step 1, planning on taking Step 2 in July. This totally scares the !@#$ out of me 🙁

 

[dav86]

How many programs total did you apply to? How many SLORs did you have? Did you rotate at any of the places where you got interviews?

I was thinking about only going for the NRMP match even though I'm a DO also, but now I'm not so sure... I got a 240 on Step 1, planning on taking Step 2 in July. This totally scares the !@#$ out of me 🙁

I am a DO and applied to both sides of the match. I applied to 42 MD and 8 DO. So far I have 3 DO interviews, 10 MD, 2 MD WL, and 14 MD/1 DO programs still have yet to send anything out to me. I have a Step 1 230s, Step 2 240s, Comlex 500s on both steps, one SLOR, one DME (DO EM Letter), and 1 OB letter, and one SLOR still on the way (won't get it until end of Dec). I wouldn't give up hope on MD EM next year, but it is competitive and it is getting more competitive each year. I have heard that most places I applied to have gotten 1000+ apps for 8-16 spots, maybe interview 90-150 ppl at most places, so getting the interview is tough, you gotta be top 10-15%. Rotating at the place will help a lot and having strong SLORs is very important. A friend has better COMLEX scores, only a USMLE 2 (lower than mine), but strong SLORs and has 15 MD interviews as a DO with no USMLE 1. The process is random, but SLORs and honoring your rotations are by far and away the most important. I would still give MD EM a shot, but know that its tough and that there are some very good DO programs out there. Good Luck.

To the OP I would definitely rock out the interviews, I think according to Charting the Outcomes for EM independent applicants (which DOs fit under) the avg number of interviews for the matched applicant was like 6.7, so you are right there. Chances are still a little against you b/c I think every year it gets more competitive, but you still have a decent shot.

 

[sylvanthus]

Wow, this is freakin me out. With the fact that DO residency programs no longer qualify for entrance into an MD fellowship, I really don't want to go the DO residency route unless I have no choice. But, looks like some good applicants seem to be having trouble above merely for going the DO route even while doing well on the USMLE. Merde. Here i thought EM was DO friendly for the most part?

 

[fiznat]

Merde.

I'm with you man. As a DO student looking at primarily allopathic EM residencies, threads like this are downright terrifying.

And of course, the osteopathic match has to occur first so there is no hedging of bets...

 

[coffeeeandtea]

Wow, this is freakin me out. With the fact that DO residency programs no longer qualify for entrance into an MD fellowship, I really don't want to go the DO residency route unless I have no choice. But, looks like some good applicants seem to be having trouble above merely for going the DO route even while doing well on the USMLE. Merde. Here i thought EM was DO friendly for the most part?

I'm with you on this one.. at least some people are having okay results (10 interviews or more). I thought EM was DO friendly too, in general. And then I looked at California, where 12/13 places have only taken maybe 1 DO in the past 5-10 years... lol. Looks like I'm probably going to end up anywhere *except* California

 

[SillyWabbit]

thanks for the responses. I have 2 SLORs that I think would be pretty supportive. I have applied to 51 programs, wish I applied to like 80 now, and 2 of the interviews are with programs I rotated with.

To all the people who have yet to apply for residency, I think the bad advice that I got was there will be more invites to come after the dean's letters go out Nov 1st. That is not true at all, from the few people that I have talked to, they have received nothing but rejections since november. So if you dont have enough interviews by then, I would recommend looking into some other options.

 

[member11223344]

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[sylvanthus]

How foolish would it be to apply to something like 60+ MD programs and 40 or so DO programs and then start waiting for the interviews to roll in? If you get 10-15 MD, then drop all the DO interviews and forgo that match in favor of the MD match? Is this doable?

That way, if you don't get enough MD interviews to make you feel comfortable, go ahead and go to the DO ones and rank programs in both matches to make certain you don't have to scramble or reapply?

 

[danzman]

This is what I did. 30 DO 30 MD with possibly dropping out of the DO match. Problem is, the DO programs start interviewing in September/Oct but the MD programs don't even give out interviews until past then. For me, I got a ton of DO interviews almost as soon as I submitted and only since Nov have I heard back from the MD programs. As such I have gone to almost all DO interviews and pushed back the MD ones until Dec/Jan. It has been extremely expensive and time consuming to schedule all these, and not everyone is too keen about giving me time off to travel. For me to feel comfortable about dropping out of the DO match I told myself I needed 10 MD interviews, I am not sure that ill get that many. So what am I supposed to do If I only have 5 interviews, drop out of the DO match and hope for the best? I am not ready to take that chance.
I have been extremely impressed by all but two of the DO programs that I've been to, the only problem is that extra year. As it stands now, my first two choices are DO programs over the MD ones anyway.

One could in theory rank only their top DO choices and if they didn't get one, shotgun the MD match. That way you could participate in both scrambles.

 

[sylvanthus]

Thats a tough one, with 5 MD interviews I guess I would likely stay in both matches.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

As a future DO student, I wish you all the best in the match.

 

[Chromatid]

I can relate to the OP and others' postings. DO, applied to roughly allopathic 50 programs (want to do a fellowship and best opportunity into academics... even if I don't decide to go that route). 4 Interviews, 2 at places I rotated at. All interviews came in Sept or early Oct. Trying to keep cool, you have to play the cards you've been dealt so we will see what happens. Just trying to beat the odds. I cannot wait until this process is over ! Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[fiznat]

I can relate to the OP and others' postings. DO, applied to roughly allopathic 50 programs (want to do a fellowship and best opportunity into academics... even if I don't decide to go that route). 4 Interviews, 2 at places I rotated at. All interviews came in Sept or early Oct. Trying to keep cool, you have to play the cards you've been dealt so we will see what happens. Just trying to beat the odds. I cannot wait until this process is over ! Happy Thanksgiving.

Yikes man. So are you rolling the dice and skipping the osteopathic match with just 4 interviews?

 

[tkim]

Was in your shoes not so long ago. Applied/interviewed at 2-3 DO places, and 10 MD places, was emailed by top choice DO program that I "would match" if I ranked them, and decided to go with MD match. Tough decision, and I matched lower than my top MD choice, but just about equal to my ROL if the match were combined MD/DO. That 'extra' year for DO EM was a real deal-breaker for me, otherwise the DO program would have likely risen to the top.

The advice I've given before is that you look at your top DO choice, and if in a theoretical combined DO/MD match, that DO program would be #3 or higher, enter the DO match ranking only that one program. If you match, you're done, if not you go on to the MD match.

The number of MD interviews you receive seems to be an indicator of your competitiveness to the pool of programs you applied to. Used to be that 10 ranked interviews was close to 100% match, since programs interviewed 10 candidates per spot. It would be interesting to see how many candidates they now interview per spot now.

 

[applicationsugh]

I'm type B, but starting to stress a bit. some advice on my progress please. (its already thanksgiving and now no response is likely a bad thing to my interpretation)

SITUATION
Applied to 61 programs all allopathic (handful of longshots - ie California and Ivy league)
including various cities maybe less attractive like akron, detroit, delaware and connecticut
4 interveiws thus far
handful of rejections
no waitlists
awaiting response from 38 programs (less Cali and Ivy league waiting actually 25)

APPLICATION!!!!!
DO student
Step 1 - 224
Step 2 - 230
(comlex who gives a **** - but did fine)
Average grades most of the way through (middle of the pack)
Sigma Sigma Phi (DO honors society)
NO RED FLAGS
Clubs - EM interest group, AMSA first year rep
Volunteer - 1 month at Children's Hospital ED in summer, and 2 week africa trip
No publication in medschool (stupid undergrad ones as primary author)
2 average slors (no directors)
2 really good regular LOR (2 directors - one Fam Med Hospital based, one Peds EM fellowship)
High Pass in EM fourth year with really good comments
decent yet concise personal statement


Personality
like i said type B yet still very hard working
i think i interview pretty well, but my downfall is that I am pretty open and honest (political games sucks for me)
i play the part of 4th year med student well enough

Thanks for the help

 

[Dr Roboto]

I'm curious. What's wrong with DO programs such that everyone would rather match in any MD program?

 

[sylvanthus]

They are all 4 years long, so there is the extra year. Also, now that MD fellowship programs no longer accept DO residencies, we cannot really match into any fellowship programs. I think there is one EMS position in the DO world per year... No idea on US or any other fellowship, but it is definately more limited. Also, poor location choices. Seems all the DO programs are all in the same region for the most part.

 

[fiznat]

I'm curious. What's wrong with DO programs such that everyone would rather match in any MD program?

My issue is there are no programs at all in CT, or anywhere reasonably close to home. There are 3, possibly 4 allopathic programs though.

 

[Iaka]

Im curious. How different would this be if the OP were from an MD program. Is EM that competitive overall or is there a strong bias against DO's

 

[danzman]

I'm curious. What's wrong with DO programs such that everyone would rather match in any MD program?

Its the extra year. You are essentially losing 200K in salary unless you moonlight, I have found that many of the DO programs really are excellent and would be a great place to learn, but its tough with 300K in student loans to lose out on all that extra salary, Also they really are all in MI and PA.

 

[Dr Roboto]

I had no idea there were so many obstacles. Thanks for enlightening me. Best of luck to you folks.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Im curious. How different would this be if the OP were from an MD program. Is EM that competitive overall or is there a strong bias against DO's

I have no idea. There are plenty of current DO residents at places I've interviewed, so I wouldn't expect a big bias. Also, that poster's numbers really aren't bad at all, so his situation is really surprising (sub-par clinical grades maybe, or bad lors, unsaid red flags?).

I do think that people have applied to more programs this year on average, just anecdotally, and I've been amazed at how many people are holding on to more interviews than they plan on attending (at this point in the season, this points to major deuchebaggery), so perhaps that is playing a role.

 

[Redrox]

The number of MD interviews you receive seems to be an indicator of your competitiveness to the pool of programs you applied to.

Hope that's the case, lot of uncertainty for reapplicants, especially DO. Last year with late SLORs coming in, I only snagged four interviews at places I hadn't rotated. This year coming from an allo TY, I'm looking at over 30 MD interview offers and am going to 15.

So far, interviewers enjoy talking with me and seem very impressed with the app. Most express surprise I hadn't matched (step 1/2 in the 250's, four honors/highpass SLORs, good clinicals, interesting leadership/volunteering positions, extreme sports, top 1/3 class, no red flags etc)

Still, so much uncertainty. Half concerned I'm going to too many competative places for interviews and not enough "safety" programs (and with last years experience please note I use those quotes very loosely). Fraid many programs will view my application with skeptacism, and not take a risk on taking a reapplicant.

I get fussy everytime I see somebody posting here about not ranking a program, that they'd rather scramble for a TY if need be. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with my life. Without sarcasm I can say that intern year has been fun. I've snagged a great GF here and could be matching at a program far far more desirable than my choices last year. Several programs have offered to give me credit for my floor months and electives.

That being said, a TY is embarassing and also hard to scramble into. Last year only seven were available on the MD side. The DO scramble takes place earlier and good positions fill by the time you'd be looking. Life ain't easy reapplying and I really miss EM. Something to think about for those posting on this thread.

 

[chet]

What's to stop a DO student with a borderline number of MD interviews to also apply to MD TY spots as a backup? I've heard that EM programs will look at "back up" applications as indecision but it seems like in this case it is just being prudent.

I ask this because every time I hear of a DO not getting a spot in the MD match they then have to scramble back to the DO match. Wouldn't applying MD TY greatly reduce the chances of having to go through this? Or are those spots competitive? Just curious.

 

[Redrox]

What's to stop a DO student with a borderline number of MD interviews to also apply to MD TY spots as a backup? I've heard that EM programs will look at "back up" applications as indecision but it seems like in this case it is just being prudent.

I ask this because every time I hear of a DO not getting a spot in the MD match they then have to scramble back to the DO match. Wouldn't applying MD TY greatly reduce the chances of having to go through this? Or are those spots competitive? Just curious.

No way for EM programs to know you're applying to TY.

TY programs don't want somebody who may be needing to disrupt their work schedule by taking time off for interviews. Fairly competative as an EM back up, maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it. Plenty of preliminary medicine positions available in the scramble, quite a few at places that had EM residencies. Problem is that those positions are only open because a full year of on call would suuuuuuuck. (TY I have 3.5 months light call) Please note that there are no away rotation possiblities for interns, so slogging through one of these prelim med positions would be the only way to get your face shown somewhere.

Not sure how important it would be if TY is allopathic or no, hasn't come up during interviews. It was important for me to snag one to help grab another SLOR, to show consistancy, and for connections.

2cents, FWIW

 

[Chromatid]

Yikes man. So are you rolling the dice and skipping the osteopathic match with just 4 interviews?

Yes. I did not even apply to osteopathic programs so can't really say I am skipping out on them when didn't even consider them. Perhaps a poor choice in hindsight but everything happens for a reason.

 

[shoal]

A poster mentioned how many people a program interviews vs # of spots.

I can attest to 2 programs -- one interviews 20 per spot, another is 15 per spot.

this 10 business generally works out, but i dont think the numbers are as low as they have been in the past.

Lastly, there were NOT that many preliminary medicine programs open last year. I nadditon, TY program was nearly impossible, the prior poster was very lucky to land that spot. Give his high board scores and clinical grades -- this probably got the spot for them.

Don't count on anything being available in the scramble except FM and prelim surgery

 

[Redrox]

Hell yeah, I was lucky. The ERAS crashed after 30 min and the website that showed openings never went on-line. Pandemonium. Phone lines jammed. Probably why I got the spot, desperation. some places hung up as soon as they told I didn't have an advanced spot, I should mention.

I've got the list on my computer with all the unmatched spots available that day, I'm counting >100 preliminary med spots and giving up counting past Nebraska. I'm bound by NRMP agreement not to disclose exactly which programs had openings, but I could count up the numbers for people if they were curious, though there's probably some official match results floating around.