EM take on NYU 3 year MD and Guaranteed residency

[iish]

I was wondering what you folks thought of the NYU 3 year program and guaranteed residency spot prior to entry into medical school? NYU offers a 3 year program to students admitted to their medical school and before they begin med school they get to choose a residency at Langone of their choice (most including EM participate, other are nsg, ortho, derm, medicine, etc).

My question is not can med school be done in 3 years, I'm sure it can. The question rather is how do PDs feel comfortable accepting students that have no clinical track record as a practitioner? Most of the residency selection process, especially in EM, revolves around how clinically talented a student is and we all know there is little correlation between grades/scores/textbook learning especially as a pre-med to how good someone will be as a resident. There are a multitude of personality traits, teamwork, work ethic factors that go into how a student is evaluated as a 3rd and 4th year. How do NYU PDs feel comfortable accepting someone into their residency program (especially ones like nsg or derm with few spots) based on undergrad gpa and mcat?

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[Doctor Bob]

I was wondering what you folks thought of the NYU 3 year program and guaranteed residency spot prior to entry into medical school? NYU offers a 3 year program to students admitted to their medical school and before they begin med school they get to choose a residency at Langone of their choice (most including EM participate, other are nsg, ortho, derm, medicine, etc).

Uh... what? Do you have a link to their website or something where they explain this more?

The question rather is how do PDs feel comfortable accepting students that have no clinical track record as a practitioner? ... How do NYU PDs feel comfortable accepting someone into their residency program (especially ones like nsg or derm with few spots) based on undergrad gpa and mcat?

There's no way we'd take a person straight out of undergrad... MCAT scores and undergrad GPA are essentially irrelevant at the residency level. I can't imagine why a PD would ever consider this... unless you're an FP residency that historically never fills and you can lock up someone early on. I've heard a lot of chatter about making 3 year med school tracks that shunt people into primary care residencies... that concept I can at least wrap my head around.

 

[iish]

Here is the website with a link to all participating departments:

http://school.med.nyu.edu/student-resources/medical-education/md-curriculum/three-year-md-degree

 

[happygilmore]

Here is the website with a link to all participating departments:

http://school.med.nyu.edu/student-resources/medical-education/md-curriculum/three-year-md-degree

They are not guaranteeing spots in ortho/derm before medical school starts. Show us this in writing... once you find the quote it will say something like, "we guarantee a residency spot.... in specialties like blah blah blah". Don't take that to mean you are going to be in a specialty, that's a guarantee you'll be a resident. Not a hard guarantee to make since 94% of US MDs will be residents their first year (higher % after that).

3 years is a step in the right direction though.

Uh... what? Do you have a link to their website or something where they explain this more?



There's no way we'd take a person straight out of undergrad... MCAT scores and undergrad GPA are essentially irrelevant at the residency level. I can't imagine why a PD would ever consider this... unless you're an FP residency that historically never fills and you can lock up someone early on. I've heard a lot of chatter about making 3 year med school tracks that shunt people into primary care residencies... that concept I can at least wrap my head around.

Yeah, 4th years will have more time to prepare applications, time to do aways for competitive programs, research, etc. So the 3 years will mostly be PC docs.

 

[iish]

They are not guaranteeing spots in ortho/derm before medical school starts. Show us this in writing... once you find the quote it will say something like, "we guarantee a residency spot.... in specialties like blah blah blah". Don't take that to mean you are going to be in a specialty, that's a guarantee you'll be a resident. Not a hard guarantee to make since 94% of US MDs will be residents their first year (higher % after that).

3 years is a step in the right direction though.



Yeah, 4th years will have more time to prepare applications, time to do aways for competitive programs, research, etc. So the 3 years will mostly be PC docs.

Read the entire website and it says you are placed in a specific residency at the onset of the program. I also know folks in the program that attest to this

 

[happygilmore]

Read the entire website and it says you are placed in a specific residency at the onset of the program. I also know folks in the program that attest to this

lol. How about you link or quote it.

Anyway, it doesn't mean much. How many people are they guaranteeing spots in derm or ortho? 1 person? Until we see a match list of only 3 year graduates then it doesn't mean much. Probably 80%+ will be primary care. It's not like they admit 50 people and say, ok what do you guys want to be? Oh wow, all ortho? Instead it will be, they accept people based upon needs - i.e. accept people who want to go into primary care more frequently.

Lol, I think I just realized what you're referring to:

The Three-Year MD Degree Pathway provides an accelerated track for a select group of eligible students who will be offered acceptance into an NYU Langone Medical Center residency program of their choice at the time of admission.

Also read this quote:

Residency slots are limited in number, with most residency programs offering between one or two slots.

I guess it's not a big deal to offer one spot of a residency per year. Notice how this would contradict the idea you have, that once you are accepted you chose a spot - if 50 people were accepted and they all chose EM, 48 would be out of luck.

I think it's a great program for that 1 or 2 people per year who gets the specialty they want.

 

[Doctor Bob]

It's still a dumb idea (from my side of the table).

I mean... it's good for the people accepted into the program and who get into the residency of their choice but at the same time, how many people know for 100% certain what specialty they want to go into prior to starting med school? How many people change their mind part way through? How many people change their minds twenty or thirty times throughout med school? This locks you in to a track. I see they have ways out but they are all "if available".

It also locks you in to a certain program which may or may not be a good fit for you; part of the interview process for residency is finding which program has the right personality for you.

And from the program side? Great, you have someone who is good on paper but there are lots of people who are superstars in undergrad but do poorly in medical school.

Well, there's nothing wrong with schools trying out different models and seeing if they work. It'll be interesting to see where things stand in 10 years. But this sort of thing would never fly at my program.

 

[secants]

There's also commentary published in NEJM recently about this, thought it was interesting. But yeah my biggest hesitance is getting locked into a specialty so early on; I must have switched 5 times during yrs 1-3 before finally deciding on one.