Emergency Psych?

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Revilla

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I'm wondering if anyone can tell me more about Emergency Psych. A friend of mine (a 3rd-year) mentioned it, but another friend at a different med school (a 4th-year) said there's no such thing. Are there any residencies for it? Or is it a fellowship after residency? Is it shift work like EM? I'm really interested in learning more about it but I don't know where to start. Any help will be appreciated.

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you do not need fellowship for emergency psych. 4 years of residency would be enough. i do not believe there are many hospitals asking for emergency psychiatrist. as triage can easily be done by er physician and they usually call on call psychiatrist for 2 nd opinion on phone. some hospitals have SW or nurses for triage purposes and again they get on call psychiatrist on phone to get ok regarding disposition.
 
While I was interviewing this year, I saw at least three hospitals with decent-sized psych ERs that were staffed by a specific emergency psychiatrist. Maybe that's just mostly at bigger city hospitals, not too sure. It seems like an interesting field.

From my limited observations, ER docs can triage, etc. but they can't (or don't) make decisions about admitting psych patients, sending to state hospital, or discharging suicidal patients without a psychiatric evaluation. And from what I could tell, they like it that way.
 
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I worked in a Psych ER as a 3rd year med student. Not all hospitals have one. Most of the work is done by med students and residents, its pretty straight forward--you medicate patients and work on dispo. The attendings were mostly general psychiatrists (no special psych ER training), and they generally sign off on whatever the resident is doing. There was no single "psych ER" attending. I think it was part of their contracts that they needed to pull a few ER shifts per month, and they distribute the work among all the psychiatrists at the hospital.

Not everyone likes working in the Psych ER, either you get slammed with a ton of patients or you have almost no patients. So either you're busy or bored, but you have to be there the whole shift. Personally, I liked working in the Psych ER, you get the most acutely ill patients there (and funny stories).
 
Emergency Psychiatry is one of what I like to call the "self-identified subspecialties"--like eating disorders, sexual offenders, pediatric OCD, etc. There is no official fellowship or board recognition, but there are enough people interested in this niche that there are recognized experts and even an American Association for Emergency Psychiatry. So find out who the leading lights are in the field, and train where they teach...

Good luck!
 
I'm wondering if anyone can tell me more about Emergency Psych. A friend of mine (a 3rd-year) mentioned it, but another friend at a different med school (a 4th-year) said there's no such thing. Are there any residencies for it? Or is it a fellowship after residency? Is it shift work like EM? I'm really interested in learning more about it but I don't know where to start. Any help will be appreciated.

SUNY Upstate has an amazing Fellowship in ER Psych. I agree that it will soon require Board Certification.

Emergency Psychiatry

The Emergency Psychiatry Fellow will be on-site at CPEP (Comprehensive Psychiatric Emergency Program) at St. Joseph's Hospital Health Center in Syracuse, one of our affiliate institutions.
The schedule includes one day per week for academic work and research and three hours per week for individual supervision. The fellow will partake in both a rigorous didactic course and in the weekly Emergency Psychiatry seminar, with gradually increasing responsibilities. The fellow will also be encouraged to supervise psychiatric residents and MS-III students during their rotation through CPEP. Research is encouraged and supported with the goal of having the fellow publish at least one paper in a peer-reviewed journal.

www.upstate.edu/psych


Check out the website

Enjoy!!:)
 
It will not meet criteria for ABMS subspecialty status, the essence of which is that the subspecialty must define a specific body of knowledge and practice that separates it from the parent specialty. Since all psychiatrists can diagnose mental illness and treat acute agitation, it's not going to pass muster. Consult psychiatry (Psychosomatic Medicine) had to lobby long and hard to assert that the interface of medical and psychiatric illness represents a body of knowledge and practice area that is deep enough to warrant subspecialty accreditation.
 
It will not meet criteria for ABMS subspecialty status, the essence of which is that the subspecialty must define a specific body of knowledge and practice that separates it from the parent specialty. Since all psychiatrists can diagnose mental illness and treat acute agitation, it's not going to pass muster. Consult psychiatry (Psychosomatic Medicine) had to lobby long and hard to assert that the interface of medical and psychiatric illness represents a body of knowledge and practice area that is deep enough to warrant subspecialty accreditation.

And how did geri get by?
 
My program has emergency psychiatry- in fact several months of it.

During the first 2 years of residency, the resident will spend about 4 months doing it and all calls are done on the emergency psyche unit (we call it PIP-Psychiatric Intervention Program).

It has its pros & cons.

-Diagnosis is easier because you often times do not have time to give the most specific dx because you only see the patient for a few hours tops--e.g. depressive do nos, psychosis nos--this could be good or bad depending on how you see it--easier but less satisfying.

-You won't see patients for days, only hours-again can be good or bad depending on how you see it.

-You get a lot of turfing dump jobs from the ER doctor. Of course this in general is bad. About 2-5 times a week we'd get a pt that was medically cleard that clearly should not have been. Some of the ER docs are looking to find any psyche sx and should they find anything, immediate dump to PIP, even if the patient is in the ER for a chief complaint of a medical (not psychiatric) problem.
some brief examples
-pt hung himself, was medically cleared with no x-rays or CT scan of the neck
-pt jumped off the 2nd floor of a building, had 2 broken legs, was medically cleared with no treatment on his legs & the ER doc reported a complely normal physical exam.
-pt with delirium 2ndary to hepatic encephalopathy (clearly--had asterexis, ascities, hx of Hep C), dumped to PIP wth no serum ammonia levels and no previous psyche hx. ER doc when asked denied pt had asterexis & refused to order a serum ammonia. (Turned out it was through the roof--I ordered it and when the ER doc found that out he was very upset with me).

The above are the worst case scenarios I've seen, but they happen, though usually on a more mild level very often. Some of the ER docs, when you bring this to your attention, well some of them are apologetic & work cooperatively, some of them blow up in anger and start screaming. As a resident, that actually made life easy for me because then I'd just tell them to talk to my attending, then the attending had to deal with an irate ER doc, not me. (of course I will be an attending soon...)

-you get a lot of dumping from other branches of services. A lot of cops dump patients onto you that clearly should be in jail, but once you got them, they refuse to pick them up. E.g. a guy who attacked someone (he's a gangbanger and thought it would give him more street-cred) but once in handcuffs he starts claiming he'll kill himself. Then he's brought to PIP and you can clearly tell he's malingering. Then you call the cops and they say he's your problem, not theirs.
If admit the guy to an inpatient unit, you're admiting a guy who clearly has no Axis I, you discharge the guy & he attacks someone, you may be cited for releasing someone not safe.
-Other places do a lot of dumps. Some nursing/group homes will drop off someone because that person did something completely understandable such as ******ed patient screamed because water in the bath was burning hot, but after hours of observation was fine. You write down for the patient to be discharged back to the home and now the home refuses to take them back (which may have been their plan all along). In that situation you can't discharge the person to the street but you got no where to put them and on weekends DDD is closed, social workers aren't available aon weekends and you can only keep them in the psyche ER for 24 hrs tops (per NJ state law)....a very difficult situation to be in.

While this make ER psyche sound unattractive, this type of turfing happens a lot in medicine in general. I'm just pointing out how it works in ER psyche. You're going to get it in inpatient & outpatient psyche quite a bit.

-On the flipside, some inpatient units may refuse to take a patient because they do not feel the pt is medically stable even though the pt clearly is stable. This can be interesting (in the bad sense of the word) especially when you got a 24 time limit and need to admit the patient somewhere and no one will take that patient.

There are days where almost nothing happens. There are days where its all heck (e.g. there's a acid-rock band concert in town, lots of people end up in the ER during those nights)

It can at times require a lot of improvisation. E.g. the ******ed patient I mentioned, you have to start thinking of every solution you can come up with & you got limited time to come up with it. There are often times where every inpatient unit you call up is full, there are times where the inpatient unit will put pressure on you to fill them up because their census is too low and you got no one who wants to be admitted or is commitable at the moment.

You will do a lot of civil commitments...a lot of them. I would do on average 3 a day. When I was applying for a forensic fellow position, some of the fellowships had you work ER psyche for that purpose.

Psychologically, theres more uncertainty in the air with this job because much of what you can do depends on others' (inpatient units, police, ER docs etc) decision. This can cause some anxiety--> frustration--> anger ---> hate (sound like Yoda now). However others tend to thrive under this type of stress.

Our PIP unit has very good relations with the local rescue mission and this adds some appeal to the job. The people running the rescue mission in Atlantic City are some of the most devoted, empathic & caring people I've seen, and they're trying to help people try to help themselves. Occasionally its good to see some success stories happen from our referral from PIP to the mission. When working inpatient you don't hear what goes on at the mission much but in PIP, contact with them is quire often. Best story was a guy who was homeless with OCD, and after we got him started at the mission, he was eventually able to get control of his OCD and get a decent job.

Overall IMHO a good experience in residency. Personally I wouldn't want to do it as an attending but everyone's taste varies.
 
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I like the psych ER! First, because you get the best stories in there. :) You never know what will walk through the door (or be brought in by the police). But no matter what, at the end of your shift you leave and don't have any responsibilities until your next shift. And I like it because it's fast paced and a series of binary decisions: handcuffs/no handcuffs, meds/no meds, seclusion/dayroom, dc home/admit, etc.

It helps having good support staff though. We got a new ER director who hired social workers and NPs to lighten the load off the residents. Now there are social workers there 24/7 to help get collateral and meet with families and they handle all of the insurance authorizations for all of the various hospitals we admit to and follow-up appointments. We used to do that stuff when I was an intern and if it was busy it kind of sucked.

I don't know any attendings (other than the director) who only do ER though. Most do 1-4 shifts a week in addition to whatever else they do. Some are in private practice and do the ER to get enough hours to qualify for our benefits. One says she does the ER to keep herself sharp and because she'd be bored doing only private practice. I'll probably moonlight in there, and do some shifts when I'm hopefully one day an attending. A 4-6 hour shift is a helluva lot easier to knock out than the 12 hour stretches we do as residents.
 
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