EMT class or post-bac classes before applying?

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optimistic3

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I graduated in May with a BS biochem and I plan to apply to med schools next cycle, meaning I have 1 year to try and make my application better. I was planning on taking an EMT class but I'm finding it difficult to get into one and if I do, they said it's an intense semester and I shouldn't take any other classes with it (is that common or does it depend on the program? the one I'm looking at is ~220 hrs, which I know is over the 150 hr requirement). But I live in the Bay Area and there are a lot of EMT programs here so I may be able to find something else.

Even assuming that I can get into an EMT class, do you think I should prioritize that or taking more post-bac (DIY) classes to try to increase my GPA a bit? My GPA isn't very good (3.4 cGPA, 3.2 sGPA ... yes, I'm applying to DO schools as well). But I also could use some more patient experience to add to my application (I volunteered in an ER for a few months and shadowed for a few months, that's about it).

However, I've recently been thinking that I can get more patient contact through volunteering in addition to taking a full courseload this year but I can't raise my GPA any other way (does an EMT class count towards your GPA? Well it probably does but it wouldn't count toward my sGPA, which needs even more help), meaning I'm leaning towards not taking the EMT class and just doing classes + volunteering. If I do take classes, I feel like I may have to take what I can at a community college because it's so much cheaper than at a university. Would it be ok if I do maybe 2 CC classes and 2 advanced science classes at a university?

I'm also studying for my MCAT right now and plan to take it in September or October. All the California seats are filled right now so I keep checking and I'll have to take what I can get.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what to do on my own.
 
Whoever told you that you shouldn't take any other classes on top of EMT was completely wrong. I did my EMT class on top of 20 hours of SMP classes and it was doable. If you are just taking a few postbacc classes it definitely shouldn't be an issue. At least for the one I took I didn't need to study at all outside of class and it was a nice break from science classes.
 
If you're okay with DO then go for the EMT since you could use more clinical experience.

Just be aware that unless you can pull off a mid 30s MCAT, your chances at MD are slim without a postbacc or SMP.

At the same time however, you'll still want more clinical experience for MD anyway.

Agree with the above poster as well. Unless you're doing an accelerated EMT class (less than 1 month), you should easily be able to squeeze in another 1 or 2 classes.
 
Spend your time taking classes to improve your GPA and instead of EMT work, just do more volunteering now. You can rack up those hours starting immediately and they shouldn't get in the way of the classes you're going to take. Clinical volunteering should be more than enough for your patient experience.
 
If you're okay with DO then go for the EMT since you could use more clinical experience.

Just be aware that unless you can pull off a mid 30s MCAT, your chances at MD are slim without a postbacc or SMP.

At the same time however, you'll still want more clinical experience for MD anyway.

Agree with the above poster as well. Unless you're doing an accelerated EMT class (less than 1 month), you should easily be able to squeeze in another 1 or 2 classes.

Maybe this is naive of me but I feel like I should try applying before going the SMP route. I don't want to spend all that time and money (I really don't want to take any more loans out unless I'm actually in med school) if I don't have to. I'm obviously not shooting for any top-tiers. I still need to do some more research this year about the DO route but it sounds like it could be a good fit for me.
 
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I can't speak for a post-bacc program, but I am an EMT for a campus department. Almost everybody in our department took the 150 hour class + 32 hour ride times along with a full-time course schedule at our relatively challenging university, and most of us are pre-health/hard science majors. The EMT material isn't hard, but it's time-consuming and you may need to practice your skills outside of class time. That said, I managed a ~3.7 GPA the same semester I took the class. If you manage your time well, you could probably handle a few post-bacc classes + EMT class without too much trouble.
On the other hand, the EMT class typically takes 4-5 months (an entire semester at a CC), then you'll need to allow about a month for taking national registry and processing for your national and state certification before you can work. This realistically leaves you with less than 6 months of actual work as an EMT. From my perspective, the value of being an EMT is not the skills or the knowledge - you'll learn all that stuff in a couple weeks of med school. Frankly, for a pre-med student, the certification on its own means practically nothing. The value of EMS work is learning to make decisions under pressure, interact appropriately and professionally with patients in stressful situations, and leadership skills. It's going to be pretty tough to build those skills in under 6 months as a rookie unless you work for a really high-volume department that takes mostly emergencies instead of patient transports.

You bring up an excellent point that I was thinking about, too. Let's say I do take the EMT class this fall and pass my certification test. CA is oversaturated with premeds and I have no connections so I doubt that I'd even find a job! Although I'd prefer to work as an ER tech than on an ambulance, but I still be those are tough to come by, too. I still won't even have much work time to put on my application if I somehow did get a job! If I start volunteering instead, maybe next month, I'd have plenty of hours and experiences to talk about/put on my application.

I really think I should just take classes and find some place to volunteer. Now I just have to figure out what classes to take and where to volunteer! This is so stressful!

Thanks for your input!
 
The EMT course can be a nice GPA booster as well, the class was an 8 credit hour class at the community college where I took it and received an A.
 
EMT classes are very easy if spread out over a semester. However I found mine to be a waste of time as the market in even my mid sized city is horribly oversaturated. The ems agencies told me they get a few dozen applications for every emt spot they advertise, most with experience. I really wish I had spent my time and money on other classes.
 
EMT classes are very easy if spread out over a semester. However I found mine to be a waste of time as the market in even my mid sized city is horribly oversaturated. The ems agencies told me they get a few dozen applications for every emt spot they advertise, most with experience. I really wish I had spent my time and money on other classes.

Thanks, I guess the advisor I talked to was misinformed.

The oversaturation thing is exactly what I'm worried about! Seems like everyone is doing it nowadays.
 
I say go for post-bacc. Don't try to take on EMT classes at the beginning. Some can handle it (like an above post), while others, like me, need some free time other than sleeping to function. If you kill the post-bacc program (3.7+) then you will be very competitive. This, of course, depends on where you go. Try getting into a post-bacc that is well known and takes classes with med students/takes classes in med school.
 
I say go for post-bacc. Don't try to take on EMT classes at the beginning. Some can handle it (like an above post), while others, like me, need some free time other than sleeping to function. If you kill the post-bacc program (3.7+) then you will be very competitive. This, of course, depends on where you go. Try getting into a post-bacc that is well known and takes classes with med students/takes classes in med school.

Well I'm trying to do it informally, honestly. I'm just going to take some classes at university (maybe a few classes at a community college to save money at the same time). I still need to play around with my numbers and the possible classes to see how far my gpa could move and to decide what classes to even take.
 
Well I'm trying to do it informally, honestly. I'm just going to take some classes at university (maybe a few classes at a community college to save money at the same time). I still need to play around with my numbers and the possible classes to see how far my gpa could move and to decide what classes to even take.
If you have 100+ credits under your belt then you're going to be hard pressed to make a drastic change in your GPA with a few classes. Why are you keeping it informal OP, if you don't mind me asking?
 
If you have 100+ credits under your belt then you're going to be hard pressed to make a drastic change in your GPA with a few classes. Why are you keeping it informal OP, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm keeping it informal due to cost issues. I've looked up some programs and they are expensive! I just got my first bill for my student loans from undergrad and I'm incredibly stressed and depressed about it (yeah I know I'll have a ton for med school but I think that's different. I don't have a job or a grad/med school acceptance to show for my BS). I simply cannot justify 10 - 20k in more loans if it's not a guaranteed thing. However I can justify a few hundred or thousand for classes to help.

Plus I don't think I did miserably. I only got a few C's. I did get a lot of B's in my science classes, though.

Do you think I'm making a mistake?
 
Do you think I'm making a mistake?
Taking a few classes? Not really if they are upper level classes in sciences to show "hey, I don't have the funds to go to an expensive post-bacc but I'm doing what I can to prove myself." It is a mistake if you're doing it for some sort of miracle-GPA saver. Look into DO the cycle you apply. I had reservations about it but most will get you into a good residency program.

Why not do both though? Do EMT school at a place that isn't too strenuous while taking the extra classes (unless price is a factor). Do your research. I would have done an SMP at a place that offers financial aid (Georgetown doesn't, which saddens me). Not sure if many do, but get at least a 30 on the MCAT and you'll be a good candidate if you do want to pursue an SMP. And if you don't, a 30+ is great for DO schools.
 
Taking a few classes? Not really if they are upper level classes in sciences to show "hey, I don't have the funds to go to an expensive post-bacc but I'm doing what I can to prove myself." It is a mistake if you're doing it for some sort of miracle-GPA saver. Look into DO the cycle you apply. I had reservations about it but most will get you into a good residency program.

Why not do both though? Do EMT school at a place that isn't too strenuous while taking the extra classes (unless price is a factor). Do your research. I would have done an SMP at a place that offers financial aid (Georgetown doesn't, which saddens me). Not sure if many do, but get at least a 30 on the MCAT and you'll be a good candidate if you do want to pursue an SMP. And if you don't, a 30+ is great for DO schools.

Yes, I'm absolutely considering DO as well. I'd be happy to just increase my sGPA by a tenth, even though I know that still wouldn't be competitive for MD. Who knows, maybe I'll kill the MCAT and some schools will like the other parts of my application? I know my chances at MD are very slim but I still feel like I have to try.

As far as why not do both EMT and classes, idk now I'm confused! I've seen other threads on SDN saying it's not worth it anymore because just about everyone is doing it. Maybe my time and money would be better spent a more difficult science class (and finding a volunteering gig and maybe a part time job)? Plus if you see above, there are very slim chances that I'd even get a job as an EMT in this area and even if I did, it'd only be a few months before I apply. More importantly, the closest and cheapest one that I was looking at is all full. There are more in the area but I'm not sure if they are full or not.

The place where I was looking to do upper level classes says they have an "individualized/unstructured Post-Baccalaureate Health Professions Certificate Program." I need to look into that a bit more, I think. I'm going to give them a call tomorrow to see how it works and how to get the certificate. I looked at their website before and it's a bit confusing.

I'm so lost, honestly.
 
Yes, I'm absolutely considering DO as well. I'd be happy to just increase my sGPA by a tenth, even though I know that still wouldn't be competitive for MD. Who knows, maybe I'll kill the MCAT and some schools will like the other parts of my application? I know my chances at MD are very slim but I still feel like I have to try.

As far as why not do both EMT and classes, idk now I'm confused! I've seen other threads on SDN saying it's not worth it anymore because just about everyone is doing it. Maybe my time and money would be better spent a more difficult science class (and finding a volunteering gig and maybe a part time job)? Plus if you see above, there are very slim chances that I'd even get a job as an EMT in this area and even if I did, it'd only be a few months before I apply. More importantly, the closest and cheapest one that I was looking at is all full. There are more in the area but I'm not sure if they are full or not.

The place where I was looking to do upper level classes says they have an "individualized/unstructured Post-Baccalaureate Health Professions Certificate Program." I need to look into that a bit more, I think. I'm going to give them a call tomorrow to see how it works and how to get the certificate. I looked at their website before and it's a bit confusing.

I'm so lost, honestly.
First, the only way you have a slim chance with MD is if you didn't do any EC's whatsoever. But we all know you're smarter than that, so your chances at each school vary. For one, each school has its own mission statement. And with it, they use it to see if you fit into the school's mission. If you do, then they give you an II. They look at your GPA and say "well, it's a little less than competitive, but lets see what else he has to offer" and will (have another committee to) look at your circumstances (PS, EC's, course-load, etc.) and see from there. If you're applying to a top 20 school, then GPA pulls a lot more weight. But at the same time, a good amount of them believe in GPA recovery (Vandy, BU, Cornell for example).

Secondly, do something man. Anything. Show adcoms that your doing something before you apply. And just because your stats are below average doesn't mean you won't get in.

There's a thread now on the pre-allo forums on people with >3.3 GPA getting II's and acceptances (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/any-3-3-gpa-and-under-with-interview-invites.1037081/) that should give you hope. Some have done a post-bacc, some are URM, while a good amount have done neither and have gotten into a US MD. Most people on SDN only look at your scores, no matter what else you post about your EC's, life experiences, etc. and judge what YOU should do based on 3 numbers. There's even a long post that you should spend time reading that explains your predicament, as well as a good majority of people's predicaments that they face during undergraduate. Please read it because it will give you a better idea as to how adcoms will think when looking at applications.

OP, if you take a gap year (and do whatever you need to do), just know that others have been worse off than you and have gotten into medical school. Also, I will say this again, take this as a blessing in disguise. This year off (if you make this a gap year) will give you experiences that others might never get to experience. Maybe you'll find a hobby of yours, or maybe you'll meet some amazing people. One guy in my class is 29. He worked to pay for college with money saved up + scholarships. He graduated in 2011 and took a gap year to raise horses. Nothing else. Why? He wanted to try it out, for poops and giggles. And he gained a lot from it instead of just staying in school for 8 years in a row.

If you want to raise the GPA, then I say go for the certificate. It sounds like an undergrad version of an SMP, where you specialize your "degree" by taking relevant courses to your interests. My undergrad had that, but in the Liberal Arts department. A few of my friends did it and took nothing but medical classes after finishing core classes.
 
First, the only way you have a slim chance with MD is if you didn't do any EC's whatsoever. But we all know you're smarter than that, so your chances at each school vary. For one, each school has its own mission statement. And with it, they use it to see if you fit into the school's mission. If you do, then they give you an II. They look at your GPA and say "well, it's a little less than competitive, but lets see what else he has to offer" and will (have another committee to) look at your circumstances (PS, EC's, course-load, etc.) and see from there. If you're applying to a top 20 school, then GPA pulls a lot more weight. But at the same time, a good amount of them believe in GPA recovery (Vandy, BU, Cornell for example).

Secondly, do something man. Anything. Show adcoms that your doing something before you apply. And just because your stats are below average doesn't mean you won't get in.

There's a thread now on the pre-allo forums on people with >3.3 GPA getting II's and acceptances (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/any-3-3-gpa-and-under-with-interview-invites.1037081/) that should give you hope. Some have done a post-bacc, some are URM, while a good amount have done neither and have gotten into a US MD. Most people on SDN only look at your scores, no matter what else you post about your EC's, life experiences, etc. and judge what YOU should do based on 3 numbers. There's even a long post that you should spend time reading that explains your predicament, as well as a good majority of people's predicaments that they face during undergraduate. Please read it because it will give you a better idea as to how adcoms will think when looking at applications.

OP, if you take a gap year (and do whatever you need to do), just know that others have been worse off than you and have gotten into medical school. Also, I will say this again, take this as a blessing in disguise. This year off (if you make this a gap year) will give you experiences that others might never get to experience. Maybe you'll find a hobby of yours, or maybe you'll meet some amazing people. One guy in my class is 29. He worked to pay for college with money saved up + scholarships. He graduated in 2011 and took a gap year to raise horses. Nothing else. Why? He wanted to try it out, for poops and giggles. And he gained a lot from it instead of just staying in school for 8 years in a row.

If you want to raise the GPA, then I say go for the certificate. It sounds like an undergrad version of an SMP, where you specialize your "degree" by taking relevant courses to your interests. My undergrad had that, but in the Liberal Arts department. A few of my friends did it and took nothing but medical classes after finishing core classes.

Thank you so much for this wonderful post. You pretty much made my day. 🙂 Do you have a link to that other long post about others in my predicament? I did read the link that you provided and it was very encouraging.

This is definitely going to be my gap year and now I just have to make sure I use it well. I keep wavering on what I should do but I think you're right that I should use it to do something meaningful for myself. I've decided for sure that I'm not going to do the EMT class because let's be honest, I would not be doing it if it weren't something to put on my application. I'm thinking this fall I'll take 3 of those post-bac classes (no CC classes) and study for the MCAT. I also want to find some sort of volunteering opportunity that would make me happy. I used to volunteer so much my freshman year of undergrad all around the city just for fun. Then sophomore year I hated my ER volunteering (boring and not enough to do...I used to walk around in circles). I think this is my time to find myself again (wow, did I really just say that? It does feel appropriate, though) and enjoy my life a little.

What you're saying about school mission statements makes a lot of sense, too. It's been on my to-do list to really take a good hard look at the MSAR/US News/school websites and narrow down which schools I want to apply to. I've been too stressed out and busy with MCAT studying and trying to figure out what I'm doing with myself this year.
 
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Thank you so much for this wonderful post. You pretty much made my day. 🙂 Do you have a link to that other long post about others in my predicament? I did read the link that you provided and it was very encouraging.

This is definitely going to be my gap year and now I just have to make sure I use it well. I keep wavering on what I should do but I think you're right that I should use it to do something meaningful for myself. I've decided for sure that I'm not going to do the EMT class because let's be honest, I would not be doing it if it weren't something to put on my application. I'm thinking this fall I'll take 3 of those post-bac classes (no CC classes) and study for the MCAT. I also want to find some sort of volunteering opportunity that would make me happy. I used to volunteer so much my freshman year of undergrad all around the city just for fun. Then sophomore year I hated my ER volunteering (boring and not enough to do...I used to walk around in circles). I think this is my time to find myself again (wow, did I really just say that? It does feel appropriate, though) and enjoy my life a little.

What you're saying about school mission statements makes a lot of sense, too. It's been on my to-do list to really take a good hard look at the MSAR/US News/school websites and narrow down which schools I want to apply to. I've been too stressed out and busy with MCAT studying and trying to figure out what I'm doing with myself this year.
Here is the quote that I was referring to. It is on that thread that I linked.

"This is directed at those with below-average to average numbers.
Let me first say, though, that THE IMPORTANCE OF NUMBERS IS WILDLY OVERSTATED ON SDN.

Let me say second, however, that in the aggregate numbers do not lie - that is to say, when you see that your GPA or MCAT is at or below a school's median, you (somewhat obviously) have a less than par chance at that school. If you're below their 10th percentile, know that your application fee is essentially a lottery ticket.

This brings up a key point: while most lottery tickets don't pay off, some do.

Approaching the application process from the beginning...

Do everything in your power to maximize the quantitative elements of your application. In theory, one would "like" to have a 3.7+ and a 35+. These represent "price of entry" numbers for most of the top 10/15/20/(upper-echelon) schools.

If you had those numbers, however, you wouldn't be reading a post about "Advice for the Marginal Applicant". I think of marginal applicants as the folks who are just as likely to get 0 acceptances as 5+. These are the sorry souls that wind up doing SMPs. These are people whose numbers are not getting them in nor keeping them out of most schools: numbers that do not elicit golf claps (positive or sarcastic) from AdComs - let's say something like an MCAT of 30-33, GPA of 3.2-3.5 (which implies a LizzyM of about 62-68).

And children, before you get riled up, these are not hard and fast cutoffs, nor even vaguely scientific. You'll see that this is an overarching theme of this post - there is nothing strictly quantitative nor scientific about this process. Embracing this (or at least accepting it), not venting blind impotent rage online, is the key to success and mental health.

So how does that marginal applicant work to enhance the odds that they are in the cohort of marginal applicants that winds up with an acceptance (or multiple acceptances)?

1) Have the requisite amount of direct contact with medicine. This is something on the order of 30 hours of physician shadowing in addition to clinical volunteering (with all of the highly variable settings and roles that the phrase entails) that lasts longer than one year. This is a checkbox to fill in the admissions rubric, and you can not afford to be missing any of these "must haves". Crucially, having 3000 hours of shadowing is likely of very little marginal value beyond something like 60. Put this time to other, more productive, use.

2) Stay involved during your application year. Get in to some research, take a job at a senior center, etc. etc. etc. Do ANYTHING scientifically, medically, or socially meaningful that allows you to show that gaining admission is a full-time endeavor for you, not just a punctuation mark in life. This has the added benefit of potentially generating "updates" for you to send to schools later in the season.

3) Do something you genuinely care about. I meet so many people and read so many posts asking essentially, "what should I do to game the system?". The truth is that the system is smarter than you, in aggregate. The best secondary/interview answers and LOR's come from situations and opportunities that you are genuinely passionate about. Instead of coming on SDN and asking "ED volunteer, EMT, or CNA cert?", take the time to do some genuine introspection. You may find that there is something you'd actually enjoy doing that has a tie - even if peripheral - to medicine. This is the experience that you should pursue, or create.

4) Don't be a child. This is different - importantly - than not being young. You can't help your age, but you can change your approach to life. Understand that you, as an (nearly) adult, are allowed (and should) have multiple facets to your personality, interests, and lifestyle. I'm not saying don't go out and have fun on a Saturday. What I AM saying is: cultivate a responsible public face. Learn how to effectively and professionally interface with anyone: 5 year olds, contemporaries, 50 year olds, and the elderly. Force yourself out of your comfort zone regularly and be honest with how others see you.

5) Apply wisely. This is the key… and it's not what anyone else has suggested.

Create your application budget. You have ancillary costs, primaries, secondaries, and interview travel. Hold perhaps $1500-$2K back for interview costs if you are casting a wide geographical net.

The first, and most often overlooked, step of the admissions process is early research. These are your ancillary costs. Buy the MSAR. Buy USNEWS. Read a ton of school's websites.

The purpose of this first step is to identify three broad classes of schools:

-Those you would love to attend.
-Those that you would attend.
-Those that you would not like to attend (the kind of schools that you just think "oh….um, no" about)

Notice I did not say anything about figuring out which schools match your statistics. At this point, you should be concerned with things like:

-Geography (family, SO, etc.)
-Mission (don't be one of the hundreds of lower-stat people that apply to Meharry, only to find out later than Meharry has lower average numbers because of a strong institutional mission that you have no interest in or connection to).
-Unique elements of the curriculum that speak to your past experiences and or future goals (dual degree strength, global health, etc.)

If you have more than 10 schools on your "would love to attend" list, YOU DO NOT HAVE A STRONG ENOUGH PERSONAL VISION FOR YOUR MEDICAL EDUCATION. I say this for one reason: as a marginal applicant, you will need to do everything in your power to differentiate yourself as an applicant. Your "perfect match" schools should speak strongly to your personal interests, goals, desires, and strengths, and there just can't be THAT many schools that do. If you find that this list is rather long, it is time to go back to the well and refine your personal mission statement.

(Let me digress for a moment and reinforce that this is the most important piece of advice I can give you here: the marginal applicant must have a strong and well justified - through activities and accomplishments - personal "brand". Consumer brands are built over time and with clarity and purpose. Do the same for your application.)

Apply to every school on your "love to attend" list regardless of their/your numbers (again WITH THE CAVEAT that these schools should be "brand" matches. If you are a marginal stats applicant and your 10 "love to attend" are every one - or even half of - the top 10 schools, you are delusional and have not grasped the essence of what I'm communicating to you here. Either that or you're a California applicant trying to stay close to home. In that case, godspeed.).

Figure out how much of your application budget you have left, and begin to work down your list of "would attend" schools. I suggest applying to all of them.

Again (this is broken record time): none of this has to do with the school's numbers or your own. You are applying to schools that appeal to you in literally every other dimension BUT numbers.

Have I stressed enough that this is not about numbers? Are all of you NOT applying to RFMS, Georgetown, BU, etc? Good. You absolutely CAN throw your money away with eight thousand or more fellow applicants (and if funds are unlimited, you should), but you're smarter than that. You're an informed marginal applicant.

That said, if you are like, "I am a Jesuit and I want to be a Jesuit doctor", and that's REAL, then you SHOULD be applying to Georgetown, SLU, Creighton, etc... Point being, again: you're never applying anywhere because of a stats match but because it matches your personal brand and criteria.

6) Apply early. What is early? Within a week of AMCAS opening. You have so much time to prepare for your application that there is simply no excuse in this regard. Start working on your PS months in advance. Line up your letters well in advance - this is a notorious rate-limiter.

If you are not able to finish your (strongly composed) application in time, wait a year.

7) Pre-write your secondaries. Even better, write them early enough that you have time to finish them and then revisit/edit them. Every applicant has the story of re-reading a secondary later in the cycle and going "wait, WHAT?!?!". You want to avoid that feeling AFTER the secondary is submitted.

7a) If you don't have real-world life experience (not a knock on the traditionals, just something about which one should be self-aware), have someone who hires/fires/interviews people read all of your work and give you a reality check on tone and composition. Trust me, people never get to your resume if the cover letter isn't tight and compelling. The same holds true here.

8) Do not waste any of the interviews that you land - your first one can't be "practice". This requires practice/experience. Find a resource - your school's career center, objective third parties (PI's, GSI's, etc.), and make them ask you all of the standard questions. Similarly, use the SDN interview feedback tool and troll for past questions. I had one interview that was literally straight off the page from the interview feedback.

9) Find space in your life for honest self-assessment. There are so many people on here who I can only assume are entitled, whining, know-nothings.

Many premeds live life trying to step on other people's necks just to grab the next rung of the ladder. Don't be these people. While this works for some number of people - generally those who didn't need to do it in the first place, ironically - for most it creates a vicious cycle of misanthropy and smug certainty that those below you got there because they weren't as good, NOT because your sociopathic self put them there.

Competence combined with kindness is generally rewarded. And you get to sleep really well at night.

Anyway, to wrap this polemic up: We all remember our parents telling us (in response to some perceived injustice), "YEAH? WELL LIFE ISN'T FAIR!!!".

Well guys, it both is and isn't. There's a little bit of luck involved, no doubt, but most success in life comes down to working hard, smiling a lot (and usually meaning it), and finding the sweet spot on the continuum of confident and humble.

Having a genuinely positive outlook (hard as it is - TRUST ME I get it), being kind to people even when you don't "need" to be, and trying to just generally be a good person goes so far in this world that you can't even imagine it until you start living it.

Good luck, all." -Repititionition
 
Thank you so much for this wonderful post. You pretty much made my day. 🙂 Do you have a link to that other long post about others in my predicament? I did read the link that you provided and it was very encouraging.

This is definitely going to be my gap year and now I just have to make sure I use it well. I keep wavering on what I should do but I think you're right that I should use it to do something meaningful for myself. I've decided for sure that I'm not going to do the EMT class because let's be honest, I would not be doing it if it weren't something to put on my application. I'm thinking this fall I'll take 3 of those post-bac classes (no CC classes) and study for the MCAT. I also want to find some sort of volunteering opportunity that would make me happy. I used to volunteer so much my freshman year of undergrad all around the city just for fun. Then sophomore year I hated my ER volunteering (boring and not enough to do...I used to walk around in circles). I think this is my time to find myself again (wow, did I really just say that? It does feel appropriate, though) and enjoy my life a little.

What you're saying about school mission statements makes a lot of sense, too. It's been on my to-do list to really take a good hard look at the MSAR/US News/school websites and narrow down which schools I want to apply to. I've been too stressed out and busy with MCAT studying and trying to figure out what I'm doing with myself this year.

I'm glad you chose not to do the EMT. The class itself has no relevance to your application to medical school. The only possible benefit is the medical experience you get working as an EMT, but you are correct that you have very little time to do so and jobs are very hard to come by. Your new plan is just what I'd do. 1) Take some classes to show you can handle them. 2) Of course study for MCAT with study books. They teach you wonderful little tricks. 3) Volunteering always looks good.
 
Here is the quote that I was referring to. It is on that thread that I linked.

"This is directed at those with below-average to average numbers.
Let me first say, though, that THE IMPORTANCE OF NUMBERS IS WILDLY OVERSTATED ON SDN.

Let me say second, however, that in the aggregate numbers do not lie - that is to say, when you see that your GPA or MCAT is at or below a school's median, you (somewhat obviously) have a less than par chance at that school. If you're below their 10th percentile, know that your application fee is essentially a lottery ticket.

This brings up a key point: while most lottery tickets don't pay off, some do.

Approaching the application process from the beginning...

Do everything in your power to maximize the quantitative elements of your application. In theory, one would "like" to have a 3.7+ and a 35+. These represent "price of entry" numbers for most of the top 10/15/20/(upper-echelon) schools.

If you had those numbers, however, you wouldn't be reading a post about "Advice for the Marginal Applicant". I think of marginal applicants as the folks who are just as likely to get 0 acceptances as 5+. These are the sorry souls that wind up doing SMPs. These are people whose numbers are not getting them in nor keeping them out of most schools: numbers that do not elicit golf claps (positive or sarcastic) from AdComs - let's say something like an MCAT of 30-33, GPA of 3.2-3.5 (which implies a LizzyM of about 62-68).

And children, before you get riled up, these are not hard and fast cutoffs, nor even vaguely scientific. You'll see that this is an overarching theme of this post - there is nothing strictly quantitative nor scientific about this process. Embracing this (or at least accepting it), not venting blind impotent rage online, is the key to success and mental health.

So how does that marginal applicant work to enhance the odds that they are in the cohort of marginal applicants that winds up with an acceptance (or multiple acceptances)?

1) Have the requisite amount of direct contact with medicine. This is something on the order of 30 hours of physician shadowing in addition to clinical volunteering (with all of the highly variable settings and roles that the phrase entails) that lasts longer than one year. This is a checkbox to fill in the admissions rubric, and you can not afford to be missing any of these "must haves". Crucially, having 3000 hours of shadowing is likely of very little marginal value beyond something like 60. Put this time to other, more productive, use.

2) Stay involved during your application year. Get in to some research, take a job at a senior center, etc. etc. etc. Do ANYTHING scientifically, medically, or socially meaningful that allows you to show that gaining admission is a full-time endeavor for you, not just a punctuation mark in life. This has the added benefit of potentially generating "updates" for you to send to schools later in the season.

3) Do something you genuinely care about. I meet so many people and read so many posts asking essentially, "what should I do to game the system?". The truth is that the system is smarter than you, in aggregate. The best secondary/interview answers and LOR's come from situations and opportunities that you are genuinely passionate about. Instead of coming on SDN and asking "ED volunteer, EMT, or CNA cert?", take the time to do some genuine introspection. You may find that there is something you'd actually enjoy doing that has a tie - even if peripheral - to medicine. This is the experience that you should pursue, or create.

4) Don't be a child. This is different - importantly - than not being young. You can't help your age, but you can change your approach to life. Understand that you, as an (nearly) adult, are allowed (and should) have multiple facets to your personality, interests, and lifestyle. I'm not saying don't go out and have fun on a Saturday. What I AM saying is: cultivate a responsible public face. Learn how to effectively and professionally interface with anyone: 5 year olds, contemporaries, 50 year olds, and the elderly. Force yourself out of your comfort zone regularly and be honest with how others see you.

5) Apply wisely. This is the key… and it's not what anyone else has suggested.

Create your application budget. You have ancillary costs, primaries, secondaries, and interview travel. Hold perhaps $1500-$2K back for interview costs if you are casting a wide geographical net.

The first, and most often overlooked, step of the admissions process is early research. These are your ancillary costs. Buy the MSAR. Buy USNEWS. Read a ton of school's websites.

The purpose of this first step is to identify three broad classes of schools:

-Those you would love to attend.
-Those that you would attend.
-Those that you would not like to attend (the kind of schools that you just think "oh….um, no" about)

Notice I did not say anything about figuring out which schools match your statistics. At this point, you should be concerned with things like:

-Geography (family, SO, etc.)
-Mission (don't be one of the hundreds of lower-stat people that apply to Meharry, only to find out later than Meharry has lower average numbers because of a strong institutional mission that you have no interest in or connection to).
-Unique elements of the curriculum that speak to your past experiences and or future goals (dual degree strength, global health, etc.)

If you have more than 10 schools on your "would love to attend" list, YOU DO NOT HAVE A STRONG ENOUGH PERSONAL VISION FOR YOUR MEDICAL EDUCATION. I say this for one reason: as a marginal applicant, you will need to do everything in your power to differentiate yourself as an applicant. Your "perfect match" schools should speak strongly to your personal interests, goals, desires, and strengths, and there just can't be THAT many schools that do. If you find that this list is rather long, it is time to go back to the well and refine your personal mission statement.

(Let me digress for a moment and reinforce that this is the most important piece of advice I can give you here: the marginal applicant must have a strong and well justified - through activities and accomplishments - personal "brand". Consumer brands are built over time and with clarity and purpose. Do the same for your application.)

Apply to every school on your "love to attend" list regardless of their/your numbers (again WITH THE CAVEAT that these schools should be "brand" matches. If you are a marginal stats applicant and your 10 "love to attend" are every one - or even half of - the top 10 schools, you are delusional and have not grasped the essence of what I'm communicating to you here. Either that or you're a California applicant trying to stay close to home. In that case, godspeed.).

Figure out how much of your application budget you have left, and begin to work down your list of "would attend" schools. I suggest applying to all of them.

Again (this is broken record time): none of this has to do with the school's numbers or your own. You are applying to schools that appeal to you in literally every other dimension BUT numbers.

Have I stressed enough that this is not about numbers? Are all of you NOT applying to RFMS, Georgetown, BU, etc? Good. You absolutely CAN throw your money away with eight thousand or more fellow applicants (and if funds are unlimited, you should), but you're smarter than that. You're an informed marginal applicant.

That said, if you are like, "I am a Jesuit and I want to be a Jesuit doctor", and that's REAL, then you SHOULD be applying to Georgetown, SLU, Creighton, etc... Point being, again: you're never applying anywhere because of a stats match but because it matches your personal brand and criteria.

6) Apply early. What is early? Within a week of AMCAS opening. You have so much time to prepare for your application that there is simply no excuse in this regard. Start working on your PS months in advance. Line up your letters well in advance - this is a notorious rate-limiter.

If you are not able to finish your (strongly composed) application in time, wait a year.

7) Pre-write your secondaries. Even better, write them early enough that you have time to finish them and then revisit/edit them. Every applicant has the story of re-reading a secondary later in the cycle and going "wait, WHAT?!?!". You want to avoid that feeling AFTER the secondary is submitted.

7a) If you don't have real-world life experience (not a knock on the traditionals, just something about which one should be self-aware), have someone who hires/fires/interviews people read all of your work and give you a reality check on tone and composition. Trust me, people never get to your resume if the cover letter isn't tight and compelling. The same holds true here.

8) Do not waste any of the interviews that you land - your first one can't be "practice". This requires practice/experience. Find a resource - your school's career center, objective third parties (PI's, GSI's, etc.), and make them ask you all of the standard questions. Similarly, use the SDN interview feedback tool and troll for past questions. I had one interview that was literally straight off the page from the interview feedback.

9) Find space in your life for honest self-assessment. There are so many people on here who I can only assume are entitled, whining, know-nothings.

Many premeds live life trying to step on other people's necks just to grab the next rung of the ladder. Don't be these people. While this works for some number of people - generally those who didn't need to do it in the first place, ironically - for most it creates a vicious cycle of misanthropy and smug certainty that those below you got there because they weren't as good, NOT because your sociopathic self put them there.

Competence combined with kindness is generally rewarded. And you get to sleep really well at night.

Anyway, to wrap this polemic up: We all remember our parents telling us (in response to some perceived injustice), "YEAH? WELL LIFE ISN'T FAIR!!!".

Well guys, it both is and isn't. There's a little bit of luck involved, no doubt, but most success in life comes down to working hard, smiling a lot (and usually meaning it), and finding the sweet spot on the continuum of confident and humble.

Having a genuinely positive outlook (hard as it is - TRUST ME I get it), being kind to people even when you don't "need" to be, and trying to just generally be a good person goes so far in this world that you can't even imagine it until you start living it.

Good luck, all." -Repititionition

ah yes, I read this one. I thought you were referring to another thread altogether. Anyway, this one was very well written and I agree with what was said. Thank you again!!
 
I'm glad you chose not to do the EMT. The class itself has no relevance to your application to medical school. The only possible benefit is the medical experience you get working as an EMT, but you are correct that you have very little time to do so and jobs are very hard to come by. Your new plan is just what I'd do. 1) Take some classes to show you can handle them. 2) Of course study for MCAT with study books. They teach you wonderful little tricks. 3) Volunteering always looks good.

Thank you for validating my decision! That always makes me feel better. Now I have to decide what classes to take. I was thinking The Biology of Human Cancer, Immunology, and one psych class - debating between Biological Psychology, Abnormal Psychology, and Developmental Psychology. The reason I need another psych class is that I know of one school for sure that I will be applying to wants 3 psych/soc/anthro classes and two of them have to be in the same subject. I have one of each and therefore I need one more in another subject.

So that's 3 post-bac classes + MCAT studying (I'm already taking a Kaplan class - it has been worth the hefty price tag. Planning for an October test) + premed activities (volunteering and shadowing. I wish I could find a job that would take care of the clinical volunteering and allow me to make some money. Maybe scribing?)

I'll shoot for 4 post-bac classes next semester.

What do you think of these classes? Just wondering if those classes are a good idea or not.

Also - anyone have an opinion on me retaking some classes? I got 5 Cs total in undergrad (never got a D or an F), all in science classes. I know AMCAS would average the grades if I retook them so it wouldn't move my GPA up a ton but it would really bump up my GPA for DO schools. Of course, my priority is MD so I was leaning toward not retaking any of them and just continue with new classes. Any thoughts? Once again, my cGPA is 3.4 and sGPA is 3.2, for reference.
 
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Take it from someone who's tried to find work in the bay area as an EMT and don't waste your time. Unless you can volunteer as an EMT or otherwise work as one, a class isn't very useful and pretty much all the companies here are either full or would rather have paramedics.

I guess it depends on where you are in the bay area, I mainly looked in Berkeley and Oakland, but either way IMO it's better to do post-bac. Also, keep checking on those California mcat seats, they'll clear up once you get closer to the test dates (I had the same problem).

Edit: whoops just realized you already made your decision
 
Take it from someone who's tried to find work in the bay area as an EMT and don't waste your time. Unless you can volunteer as an EMT or otherwise work as one, a class isn't very useful and pretty much all the companies here are either full or would rather have paramedics.

I guess it depends on where you are in the bay area, I mainly looked in Berkeley and Oakland, but either way IMO it's better to do post-bac. Also, keep checking on those California mcat seats, they'll clear up once you get closer to the test dates (I had the same problem).

Thank you for the advice!! I just moved here about a month ago and I cannot believe how crowded and oversaturated it is here!

The paramedic thing makes sense.
 
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