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rookiealltheway

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Hey everybody

Im a biomedical engineer interested in changing careers and becomin a doc.
This is my profile

High school ( 9 and 10th includes math, science, chem n physics along with languages etc) - 80 %
11,12th - math, physics, chemistry, languages - 78 %(lab work included in 4 years)(foreign schools)

undergrad-biomedical engg major-foreign university - biochemistry with lab(1sem) and anatomy physiology with lab( 3 sems),physics(2 sems), calculus(4 sem), english(2 sem). total under grad percentage = 69.9%

graduate - biomedical engg major- us university - anatomy and physiology with lab ( 1 sem) and other engg courses. specialized in optics and medical imaging. total gpa = 3.33

i have a couple of publications in scientific journals.

worked in a hospital as a biomedical engg for about 6 months bfore heading to grad school. and conducted charity cataract camps in rural areas.

gre - 1040 ( Q - 670, V - 370)

I rate myself an above average to excellent student (the gre was due to laziness i guess but i have improved myself and can score around 35 in mcat practice tests)


1.Is it advisable for me to switch careers ?
2.do i stand a chance of getting into a medical in US at all?
3.what do i need to do to go to a medical school (lol, too many "to's")

looking for answers..........🙂
 
Do you have an UG gpa that can be translated to a 4.0 scale?

Grad GPA doesn't mean much for med school app, and even if it did your's is a little low.

You may need to take the pre-reqs at a US school, if you don't have grades for these courses. Can anyone comment further on this?
 
Hey everybody

Im a biomedical engineer interested in changing careers and becomin a doc.
This is my profile

High school ( 9 and 10th includes math, science, chem n physics along with languages etc) - 80 %
11,12th - math, physics, chemistry, languages - 78 %(lab work included in 4 years)(foreign schools)

The med schools will probably not care about HS performance. However, some schools want to know your SAT scores (see re your GRE below). It doesn't have to be official, but I think highly recommended for foreign national applicants where English may not be the primary language.

undergrad-biomedical engg major-foreign university - biochemistry with lab(1sem) and anatomy physiology with lab( 3 sems),physics(2 sems), calculus(4 sem), english(2 sem). total under grad percentage = 69.9%

You will need official transcripts from these sent from your university. Since you are not on a 4.0 scale, you have some 'splainin' to do. PM QofQuimica (the mod on this board)-she had a similar weird UG grade situation and required some creative avenues to get in (not the least of which a 42 MCAT 😱)

Based on your % it looks average (C level), which is not good enough for med school

graduate - biomedical engg major- us university - anatomy and physiology with lab ( 1 sem) and other engg courses. specialized in optics and medical imaging. total gpa = 3.33

i have a couple of publications in scientific journals.

worked in a hospital as a biomedical engg for about 6 months bfore heading to grad school. and conducted charity cataract camps in rural areas.

These are great extracurriculars, make sure to pump them up in your EC section and the personal statement. As mentioned earlier, that grad GPA is also low.


gre - 1040 ( Q - 670, V - 370)

I rate myself an above average to excellent student (the gre was due to laziness i guess but i have improved myself and can score around 35 in mcat practice tests)

This GRE looks funny. Even a GRE from 10 years ago had a analytical section, and the verbal score is very low. Arguably, the most important parts of an application are the verbal reasoning section of the MCAT (translates to better performance on USMLE) and the interview to see if you will fit in. Bad verbal skills in both sections could only hurt you.

My anecdotal experience suggests that people do worse on real MCATs than the practice. You need above a 30 with no single section lower than 8. You don't want to retake the MCAT more than once.

1.Is it advisable for me to switch careers ?
2.do i stand a chance of getting into a medical in US at all?
3.what do i need to do to go to a medical school (lol, too many "to's")

looking for answers..........🙂

At this stage, I would stay in your career and try retaking the bio 101/102, chem 101/102, phys 101/102 with labs (if necessary, from a CC) so you have a recent track record of US grades (on 4.0 scale-and you better get the 4.0!) If after a year of classes, you still want the doctor-you would be in better shape

Right now, it would be difficult to get into med school. I would keep reading this forum, get a copy of the MSAR and treat it like you were starting from scratch (relying on old stuff doesn't look incredibly promising)

Good luck!
 
Post-bacs are great if you want to prove you can do the pre-reqs and up that UG GPA some. Check out these 3 sites:

Post-bac programs: http://services.aamc.org/postbac/
SDN Post-bac: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

I'm a mechanical engineer working in the biomedical industry and doing a post-bac so I can one day where the white coat. You choose a good undergrad to go into medicine and make sure you really highlight your research and work experience. Sometimes being a non-trad applicant can give you an edge (maturity, life experiences, etc.).

Best of luck!
 
Post-bacs are great if you want to prove you can do the pre-reqs and up that UG GPA some. Check out these 3 sites:

Post-bac programs: http://services.aamc.org/postbac/
SDN Post-bac: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

I'm a mechanical engineer working in the biomedical industry and doing a post-bac so I can one day where the white coat. You choose a good undergrad to go into medicine and make sure you really highlight your research and work experience. Sometimes being a non-trad applicant can give you an edge (maturity, life experiences, etc.).

Best of luck!

Thank you guys for answering my questions

is it easier for me to go for the bs/md program or go through post-bac. i do know that not all bs/md programs take in students who have college education.do you know which ones take in students with colege education?
 
You will need official transcripts from these sent from your university. Since you are not on a 4.0 scale, you have some 'splainin' to do. PM QofQuimica (the mod on this board)-she had a similar weird UG grade situation and required some creative avenues to get in (not the least of which a 42 MCAT 😱)
I'm really not the best person to ask about this. My BA is from an American college, and I sent information about the accreditation to each medical school along with copies of my narrative evals. The OP won't be able to do this since s/he didn't attend an American school and presumably doesn't have NEs to send.

OP, you need to talk to someone who has experience with applying as an international student. Even though you did your grad school work in this country, you don't have any undergrad level coursework taken in the US, correct? Some medical schools are reluctant to take students without college coursework done in the US or Canada. You may need to do an extra year or two of coursework at an American college before you are eligible to apply for medical school in this country. If he's around, ScottishChap may be able to give you some advice. Your best bet is probably to just contact the medical schools where you think you might like to apply and ask to have a pre-app meeting with the dean of admissions.
 
Thank you guys for answering my questions

is it easier for me to go for the bs/md program or go through post-bac. i do know that not all bs/md programs take in students who have college education.do you know which ones take in students with colege education?

I don't know what you mean by bs/md. Some schools have linkage programs-which means that you start your b.s. completely over and then you have a greater likelihood of getting into med school, encompassing the b.s. (once you have been accepted to med school) in less than 4 years.

Post-bacc just means any collegiate effort after you got your degree. It can be informal (you choose what classes, timetables, etc.) and even done at a community college (although the 4 year universities are always best). A formal post-bacc has a better system (advising, classes, etc.) to help get in.

A last ditch effort for you may be to take a special masters program (SMP). There are hundreds of threads dealing with SMP in this forum, and you can search them. Basically, this formal program lets you take the 1st year of med school classes with med students. If you do well (all A's) then you have a better shot at getting into med school, but if you don't do well-you have proven that you are not med school material and would have to give up at that point. I don't recommend the SMP for somebody who hasn't applied once to get real feedback.
 
I'm really not the best person to ask about this. My BA is from an American college, and I sent information about the accreditation to each medical school along with copies of my narrative evals. The OP won't be able to do this since s/he didn't attend an American school and presumably doesn't have NEs to send.

OP, you need to talk to someone who has experience with applying as an international student. Even though you did your grad school work in this country, you don't have any undergrad level coursework taken in the US, correct? Some medical schools are reluctant to take students without college coursework done in the US or Canada. You may need to do an extra year or two of coursework at an American college before you are eligible to apply for medical school in this country. If he's around, ScottishChap may be able to give you some advice. Your best bet is probably to just contact the medical schools where you think you might like to apply and ask to have a pre-app meeting with the dean of admissions.
You rang? I see you got cheated out of 1 point on your MCAT here, Q? I heard you had a 43.😉

OP: SMP is wrong for you, IMHO. Where is your undergrad degree from and what is your major? I can give some advice from there.....
 
You rang? I see you got cheated out of 1 point on your MCAT here, Q? I heard you had a 43.😉

OP: SMP is wrong for you, IMHO. Where is your undergrad degree from and what is your major? I can give some advice from there.....
That's uncanny. You're like, my SDN alter ego. :bow:
 
You rang? I see you got cheated out of 1 point on your MCAT here, Q? I heard you had a 43.😉

OP: SMP is wrong for you, IMHO. Where is your undergrad degree from and what is your major? I can give some advice from there.....

thank you everyone for the replies

my major is biomedical engineering,both under grad n grad.........is it worth doing the drexel evening post-bac? what is the chance of my acceptance to a medical school if i do a post bac?
 
thank you everyone for the replies

my major is biomedical engineering,both under grad n grad.........is it worth doing the drexel evening post-bac? what is the chance of my acceptance to a medical school if i do a post bac?
It's totally impossible for anyone to honestly predict an applicant's chance for guaranteed admssion to medical school. This is scary business you know, it's often unforgiving--even Draconian--and it often seems random. There is some method to the madness, however, and I will try to reveal some options for you if you are intrepid enough to continue reading.

For allopathic medical schools, there are four ways you can go about this:

1. Repeat an entire U.S. undergraduate degree. This seems extreme but you're going to come across admissions counselors and Directors of Admissions at U.S. medical schools who will present this as a very reasonable (if not the only) option. This is the most expensive route, and the most costly, but the one that will give you least resistance.

2. Have your undergraduate transcript evaluated by a professional credentialing agency like WES; their office in New York is very inefficient and several staff members would benefit from re-training but they'll get you where you need to be (interestingly, their Toronto office is highly-efficient and a pleasure to work with.....I digress). Such agencies know the educational system around the globe, and they can convert your foreign transcript into a U.S. equivalent with grades, earned credits, and a GPA. Don't worry, >70% where I come from is an A, and almost nobody can score >80% ever, and straight A's are unheard off. Professional agencies know this, and will (interpret: 'should) give you a fair evaluation. Some medical schools in the U.S. will accept an evaluated foreign undergraduate transcript along with some U.S. prerequisites (which you'll need for the MCAT). You'll have to contact all medical schools you're seriously considering to see who will accept this option. I took this option. I applied to nine allopathic schools and received just three interviews...with a pretty crap MCAT, though. Expect a lot of resistance, but be polite and persistent. You aren't saying which country your undergraduate degree is from and that may also present a problem. I'll tell you now that I'm a product of the British system, and that made no difference. Overall, this option requires 60-90 credits completed in the U.S. Some medical schools will allow those credits to be a mix of graduate classes and U.S. undergraduate prerequisites. In my case, I never took physics in college overseas, so I took that stateside and applied with 91 credits from a U.S. Ph.D. In your case, you most definitely owe U.S. allopathic medical schools general biology, general chemistry, and organic chemistry (8 credits of each) since you only have physics from your undergraduate degree in your post on this forum.

3. Try rolling your undergraduate credits from overseas into a U.S. undergraduate degree. This is probably a compromise between options one and two. Some U.S. undergraduate schools will give you 1-2.5 years of credit on a 'pass' basis, and you'll need to score well in the rest of your classes. Find 'Bluemirage' who is an Australian national and he ocassionally posts here. We communicated extensively when he was at your stage, and he took option #3. He is now a medical student at a U.S. allopathic school, and he can give you his first-hand experience.

4. Enroll in a formal post-bacc. program - usually intended for U.S. graduates without a science background - but perhaps appropriate for you. This will give you around two years of undergraduate credits and, coupled with your U.S. graduate work, it might catapult you into the required 60-90 U.S. credit range. Another option would be to do the classes 'piece-meal' and at your own pace either at a 4-year undergraduate school or at a community college. I know people in your situation (including yours truly) who have been successful with either option. Persistence is the key.

You must ask yourself now what you are willing to sacrifice in order to get there. In my case, I decided that repeating an entire undergraduate degree was too much for them to ask for--in part based on what I had accomplished since graduating from college and also based on what I refused to put my wife through by taking this option--but it's a personal decision, and I just stayed away from medical schools that were this extreme.

Overall, just realize that a U.S. masters degree or PhD alone does not cut it for U.S. allopathic schools. They all want a U.S. or Canadian undergraduate degree with prerequisite courses or something that looks like it on paper. As such, special masters programs are not right for you. I also realized very quickly that some Admissions Directors at U.S. medical schools are more knowledgeable about your situation than others who don't know and/or don't care to take the time to learn. I was blessed that my own medical school has a gifted and highly-knowledgeable Director of Admissions. In addition, they're all pretty much looking for an MCAT score >30, so don't make the mistake that I did by taking the MCAT with zero working knowledge of some sections if you are missing prerequisite courses. Lastly, if you do not have a green card, you'll not be eligible for federal loans and that adds an additional dimension of complexity to your situation.

It's not impossible to gain admission if you're determined - even though the tunnel you're about to enter seems long and dark. I'm an average student, and I did it on my first try without dealing with waitlists; you can too. Stay humble, always treat people well, and try to do what needs to be done to look as close as possible to the 'generic U.S. applicant'. Good luck!
 
thank you everyone for the replies

my major is biomedical engineering,both under grad n grad.........is it worth doing the drexel evening post-bac? what is the chance of my acceptance to a medical school if i do a post bac?

I wanted to add one thing for you to consider for your application to be as strong as possible. AMCAS calculates a BCPM GPA (GPA of only classes with a bio, chem, phys, or math prefix, which you must take chem 101/102, Bio 101/102, Phys 101/102 and organic 201/202.) You should look at your grades and figure out how strong a science GPA (BCPM) GPA you really have. do this calculation yourself, and be hard on yourself-any engineering class would really not be considered "science" and as a result figure in to the calc. If that average is low (<85%?), then you really need to completely start over.
 
I wanted to add one thing for you to consider for your application to be as strong as possible. AMCAS calculates a BCPM GPA (GPA of only classes with a bio, chem, phys, or math prefix, which you must take chem 101/102, Bio 101/102, Phys 101/102 and organic 201/202.) You should look at your grades and figure out how strong a science GPA (BCPM) GPA you really have. do this calculation yourself, and be hard on yourself-any engineering class would really not be considered "science" and as a result figure in to the calc. If that average is low (<85%?), then you really need to completely start over.
I don't think there's utility in this calculation for the OP at all. The relevant classes were completed overseas and the educational system is so radically different from the way that the U.S. operates that there is no way to fairly gauge where the OP stands right now. Also, AMCAS does not permit foreign grades or subject percentages to be entered onto the form, and they will not be verified as an earned GPA. AMCAS is very clear about this point. Once the OP has U.S. prerequisites, it's fair-game as you say.
 
I don't think there's utility in this calculation for the OP at all. The relevant classes were completed overseas and the educational system is so radically different from the way that the U.S. operates that there is no way to fairly gauge where the OP stands right now. Also, AMCAS does not permit foreign grades or subject percentages to be entered onto the form, and they will not be verified as an earned GPA. AMCAS is very clear about this point. Once the OP has U.S. prerequisites, it's fair-game as you say.

I respectfully disagree, but have no data to support this contention. It is my belief that the intro classes can be considered universal country to country (which is why there is the annual handwringing from the American press stating that U.S. students score lower than most forms of fungi on standardized tests and rank below every other country and most large farms :meanie:

That said, I think that if the OP nailed the intro classes, he might have a good case for not retaking an entire B.S. degree, or do your recertification protocol you recommended. The flip side holds as well-if he was an average student, he should completely restart from day 1 and hope that his history is not held against him (not try to certify the foreign undergraduate)

I can't comment on the disparity of the non-4.0 scale, but I believe that for the pre-requisite classes (except for English, perhaps) that an official letter from the registrar stating what a excellent mark in the intro classes may carry weight. I still recommend that the OP start over so he is legitimately competitive.
 
I respectfully disagree, but have no data to support this contention. It is my belief that the intro classes can be considered universal country to country
Sorry, but for AMCAS purposes and allopathic medical schools, this is not true at all for this special situation. I have first-hand experience, and AMCAS is clear about this in their fine print instructions if you care to dig through the PDF file.
I can't comment on the disparity of the non-4.0 scale....
Apples and oranges. Apples and oranges. The U.S. has a great system, but it is unique and quite distinct from any other educational system from the way the material is presented to the way it is assessed and the way grades are allocated.
but I believe that for the pre-requisite classes (except for English, perhaps) that an official letter from the registrar stating what a excellent mark in the intro classes may carry weight. I still recommend that the OP start over so he is legitimately competitive.
If only it were that simple, but it's not. Again, this is a special case and this dialog affirms the unreasonable issues that such applicants face. AMCAS doesn't care. They won't deal with transcripts outside of the U.S. or Canada; this is also stated in their instructions for completing the form.
 
Sorry, but for AMCAS purposes and allopathic medical schools, this is not true at all for this special situation. I have first-hand experience, and AMCAS is clear about this in their fine print instructions if you care to dig through the PDF file.

If only it were that simple, but it's not. Again, this is a special case and this dialog affirms the unreasonable issues that such applicants face. AMCAS doesn't care. They won't deal with transcripts outside of the U.S. or Canada; this is also stated in their instructions for completing the form.

very well-I also bow to your wisdom :bow:

As you stated, the OP should completely read the entire AMCAS fine print. That said, I think some benchmarks need to be stated for the OP to consider. Note, however, that these are minimums, one really should exceed these stats to be competitive,

1.) You must have record of pre-req BCPM. That is 1 year each (with labs) of chem 101/102, phys 101/102, Bio 101/102, and organic chemistry 201/202. Check the MSAR (available at your library) for other highly recommended pre-reqs: like the math, upper level classes (often biochem, genetics, A&P, etc.)

2.) You must have 90 undergraduate credits on the 4.0 scale to even apply

3.) You must have significantly greater than 3.0 to be competitive (both in total GPA and the BCPM)

4.) You must rock the MCAT (greater than 30 with no section lower than a 8) In your case (given your history) you also do not want to bomb the written section, as this will set off alarms.

5.) You must truly rock the AMCAS-again, you had better have a great PS, great letters, etc. You can do this well before you get close to your 90 credits.

There is more-so I recommend that you keep reading this forum as you go along.
 
Wisdom? - no. Reading the AMCAS instructions? - critical. I strongly believe in accurate information on SDN, as I'm certain most people (including yourself) do. For the OP's case, it's pivotal. The relevant section is on page 58 of the 2008 AMCAS instructions this time.

Again, the OP will find that several medical schools will not require the 90 credits. Some will only want 60 because an undergraduate degree has been earned. Also, it's again very tough to generalize about which GPAs and MCAT scores will eliminate an applicant. I know several applicants with MCAT subsections < 8 that gained first-time entry without waitlists. Academic excellence is expected, and the GPA and MCAT show that best, but there is more to an applicant than that.
 
Again, the OP will find that several medical schools will not require the 90 credits. Some will only want 60 because an undergraduate degree has been earned. Also, it's again very tough to generalize about which GPAs and MCAT scores will eliminate an applicant. I know several applicants with MCAT subsections < 8 that gained first-time entry without waitlists. Academic excellence is expected, and the GPA and MCAT show that best, but there is more to an applicant than that.

I am not trying to mince words here. My benchmarks were for the case where the OP would legitimately try to start over (brand new UG with no attempt to recertify the foreign grades). The effort of the OP in america (grad work, engineering, etc.) would be very attractive as ECs and in this case would be very competitive when the benchmarks were met. I concede on the point you made earlier that the OP may wish to cobble together a new UG transcript-getting credit (but no grades) for some classes, and potentially taking only 60 credit hours before applying. However, i can't emphasize enough, that if you try anything informally (such as a 60 credit hour application) that it is critical to try to contact the schools to make sure it is acceptable.
 
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