Engineering -> Medicine Switch

[Maxamillion12]

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Hi,

So I'm a junior who's currently majoring in civil engineering. I was inquiring about the possibility of going to medical school after I complete my degree. My GPA is overall on the lower side, 2.65 overall to be exact. I'm not really too concerned about it, as my classes are much harder than doing well in premed classes. Last year I've started taking the premed courses, and I've gotten above a C in all them. I was concerned if I'd be able to handle it, so the Step 1 material book (First Aid), and it's seems relativity straight forward memorization (I've taken nutrition and got a B+ in it), so I feel like I could breeze easily through medical school compared to the engineering curriculum. I haven't taken the MCAT yet. I was going to do that this summer. I have about 300 hours of volunteering in the hospital, 200 hours of research, 50 hours of shadowing, and I'm working as a scribe starting this fall. Thoughts on if I'm doing this right?

 

[efle]

Hi,

So I'm a junior who's currently majoring in civil engineering. I was inquiring about the possibility of going to medical school after I complete my degree. My GPA is overall on the lower side, 2.65 overall to be exact. I'm not really too concerned about it, as my classes are much harder than doing well in premed classes. Last year I've started taking the premed courses, and I've gotten above a C in all them. I was concerned if I'd be able to handle it, so the Step 1 material book (First Aid), and it's seems relativity straight forward memorization (I've taken nutrition and got a B+ in it), so I feel like I could breeze easily through medical school compared to the engineering curriculum. I haven't taken the MCAT yet. I was going to do that this summer. I have about 300 hours of volunteering in the hospital, 200 hours of research, 50 hours of shadowing, and I'm working as a scribe starting this fall. Thoughts on if I'm doing this right?

Unfortunately, most admissions committee members were not engineers, and they do not understand that a B- engineering student has a vastly superior intellect to straight A premeds. As an engineer you will no doubt score a perfect MCAT after only a few days of reviewing your high school science coursework materials. But, your GPA will get you screened out of admissions before that will have a chance to impress anyone, because as I said admissions is run by plebeians with backgrounds in only biomedical science.

 

[ndafife]

2.65 overall to be exact. I'm not really too concerned about it.

You should be concerned about it. Of the 1,726 applicants last cycle with a GPA between 2.6-2.79, only 6.8% got into medical school.

Last year I've started taking the premed courses, and I've gotten above a C in all them.

You're going to need to start doing better than merely "above a C" in order to 1)Bring your GPA up to a level that is going to make you more competitive for med school admissions 2) start showing a strong GPA trend

I've taken nutrition and got a B+ in it

Are we supposed to be impressed with this?

I feel like I could breeze easily through medical school compared to the engineering curriculum.

You are in for a lot of work getting yourself to the point where you can just breeze through medical school. You're doing the right thing research/volunteering wise. As mentioned before you need to start getting A's to bring your GPA up to an acceptable level. It is hard to give much advice before you have an MCAT score but given you are a Junior (aka a lot of 2.65 GPA credits) you are likely going to have to do a Post-Bacc or SMP after you finish undergrad to help make up for your GPA.

 

[Maxamillion12]

Unfortunately, most admissions committee members were not engineers, and they do not understand that a B- engineering student has a vastly superior intellect to straight A premeds. As an engineer you will no doubt score a perfect MCAT after only a few days of reviewing your high school science coursework materials. But, your GPA will get you screened out of admissions before that will have a chance to impress anyone, because as I said admissions is run by plebeians with backgrounds in only biomedical science.

Is this sarcasm? Or are you agreeing with me.

 

[LizzyM]

Taking the MCAT is a great plan. However, do yourself a favor and take a practice test under practice conditions. This will take about 7 hours. Look at your score and your GPA on the AMCAS table 23-a. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf
This will be a good jumping off point that will help you see what your chances are of being admitted to medical school and what you might need to work on to improve your chances.

Have you taken Bio I and II, O-chem I and II? Biochemistry? What grades did you earn in those classes?

 

[Maxamillion12]

You should be concerned about it. Of the 1,726 applicants last cycle with a GPA between 2.6-2.79, only 6.8% got into medical school.


You're going to need to start doing better than merely "above a C" in order to 1)Bring your GPA up to a level that is going to make you more competitive for med school admissions 2) start showing a strong GPA trend


Are we supposed to be impressed with this?


You are in for a lot of work getting yourself to the point where you can just breeze through medical school. You're doing the right thing research/volunteering wise. As mentioned before you need to start getting A's to bring your GPA up to an acceptable level. It is hard to give much advice before you have an MCAT score but given you are a Junior (aka a lot of 2.65 GPA credits) you are likely going to have to do a Post-Bacc or SMP after you finish undergrad to help make up for your GPA.

In regards to the nutrition, my nutrition course covered similar information that was in first aid book, so I think that indicates my performance potential, to a reasonable degree. I had a C and a C+ in Bio I and Bio II last semester. I didn't really try very hard. But if I did, I would have a 4.0, or close to it. For I took the AAMC full length 1 this past week, and I got a 495. The exam is just a lot of memorization I still gotta cover

 

[Maxamillion12]

Taking the MCAT is a great plan. However, do yourself a favor and take a practice test under practice conditions. This will take about 7 hours. Look at your score and your GPA on the AMCAS table 23-a. https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf
This will be a good jumping off point that will help you see what your chances are of being admitted to medical school and what you might need to work on to improve your chances.

Have you taken Bio I and II, O-chem I and II? Biochemistry? What grades did you earn in those classes?

Bio 1 = C
Bio 2 = C+
Ochem 1= B
O chem 2 = B-
Biochemistry = taking

 

[LizzyM]

In regards to the nutrition, my nutrition course covered similar information that was in first aid book, so I think that indicates my performance potential, to a reasonable degree. I had a C and a C+ in Bio I and Bio II last semester. I didn't really try very hard. But if I did, I would have a 4.0, or close to it. For I took the AAMC full length 1 this past week, and I got a 495. The exam is just a lot of memorization I still gotta cover

You had 495 in a practice test, you have a 2.19 average in two intro bio classes, less than 3.0 in o-chem and your GPA is 2.65. You are in a deep, deep hole. Find Goro's guide to reinvention. It is your only hope. Typically, schools are looking for MCAT >509 and GPA > 3.49. You have a long climb out of a deep hole if you are going to accomplish this goal.

Also, get over this idea that medicine is just memorization. Synthesis of information is far more important and far more mentally challenging. The other challenge for some engineers is the emotional intelligence required to read people and understand where they are coming from and to empathize.

 

[Maxamillion12]

You had 495 in a practice test, you have a 2.19 average in two intro bio classes, less than 3.0 in o-chem and your GPA is 2.65. You are in a deep, deep hole. Find Goro's guide to reinvention. It is your only hope. Typically, schools are looking for MCAT >509 and GPA > 3.49. You have a long climb out of a deep hole if you are going to accomplish this goal.

Also, get over this idea that medicine is just memorization. Synthesis of information is far more important and far more mentally challenging. The other challenge for some engineers is the emotional intelligence required to read people and understand where they are coming from and to empathize.

But isn't there any leeway on my coursework being more difficult? My undergraduate engineering is inherently more difficult than premed and medical school, even according to @efle. I've opened up step 1 material and I know I can do it. And emotional intelligence is so vague. That's just fluff people say to add skills to things

 

[LizzyM]

But isn't there any leeway on my coursework being more difficult? My undergraduate engineering is inherently more difficult than premed and medical school, even according to @efle. I've opened up step 1 material and I know I can do it. And emotional intelligence is so vague. That's just fluff people say to add skills to things

If this were true, you'd have aced the MCAT. I interviewed a few engineering majors this year. Both had GPAs above 3.90 from highly competitive undergrad institutions.

Emotional intelligence will be assessed at the interview. Good luck!

 

[efle]

How are people taking this bait oh my god

9.3/10

 

[Maxamillion12]

How are people taking this bait oh my god

9.3/10

Not bait by any means. I would be happy to verify things with you if need be. I'm just a little frustrated, and don't mean to sound absolute, but I know I'm capable. Now everyone is telling me otherwise

 

[Maxamillion12]

If this were true, you'd have aced the MCAT. I interviewed a few engineering majors this year. Both had GPAs above 3.90 from highly competitive undergrad institutions.

Emotional intelligence will be assessed at the interview. Good luck!

It was only a practice exam, under timed conditions. I haven't studied for it yet, took it more as a baseline. The point is, no one wants to admit that engineering is harder than premed/med. I just don't understand why that won't be taken into account. A 3.0 in engineering should equal a 3.9 in premed/med

 

[ndafife]

But isn't there any leeway on my coursework being more difficult? My undergraduate engineering is inherently more difficult than premed and medical school, even according to @efle. I've opened up step 1 material and I know I can do it. And emotional intelligence is so vague. That's just fluff people say to add skills to things

You don't get a whole lot of leeway with this in your premed classes:

Bio 1 = C
Bio 2 = C+
Ochem 1= B
O chem 2 = B-
Biochemistry = taking

But hey that B+ in Nutrition could carry you through

 

[Maxamillion12]

You don't get a whole lot of leeway with this in your premed classes:


But hey that B+ in Nutrition could carry you through

I had 17 credit semesters my freshman years when I took the first 3. If I had more time, I would do much better.

 

[DrRiker]

But isn't there any leeway on my coursework being more difficult? My undergraduate engineering is inherently more difficult than premed and medical school, even according to @efle. I've opened up step 1 material and I know I can do it. And emotional intelligence is so vague. That's just fluff people say to add skills to things

No. I've done the engineering -> med switch. There is no forgiveness for the coursework. Moreover, even my engineering classmates who skated by achieved over 3.0 for the most part, so even if you are comparing yourself to only the engineering cohort, you need to raise your GPA.

 

[Maxamillion12]

No. I've done the engineering -> med switch. There is no forgiveness for the coursework. Moreover, even my engineering classmates who skated by achieved over 3.0 for the most part, so even if you are comparing yourself to only the engineering cohort, you need to raise your GPA.

Gotcha. Interestingly, out of my friend group, I'm the highest and people come to me for help. Not sure what stage you're in, but did you find medical school (or residency) to be a joke compared to our coursework?

 

[beattheprocess]

Where’s that lock-happy mod when you need him the most

 

[scribbles&rambles]

Not bait by any means. I would be happy to verify things with you if need be. I'm just a little frustrated, and don't mean to sound absolute, but I know I'm capable. Now everyone is telling me otherwise

As someone who graduated with an engineering degree (not civil engineering though), I get that the classes are tricky and maintaining a stellar GPA is hard. But as everyone else has mentioned before, the red flag is that your GPA and current practice MCAT score do not make the cut-offs.

If you are really committed to this, you have to play your cards right and give yourself lots of time to boost up your GPA (via acing your remaining classes for undergrad and then doing a SMP/post-bacc) and to get a good MCAT score. I think that you might have a shot to get in somewhere, but it'll take a bit of time reinventing yourself for all of us to know for sure.

 

[LizzyM]

A 3.0 in engineering should equal a 3.9 in premed/med

You think it should but it doesn't.

And we see hundreds of Engineering students with GPAs of 3.8 and higher. So that would be like a 4.7 GPA in the land of pre-meds??

 

[ndafife]

Gotcha. Interestingly, out of my friend group, I'm the highest and people come to me for help. Not sure what stage you're in, but did you find medical school (or residency) to be a joke compared to our coursework?

I think the sooner you get the idea that its a joke (especially considering how poorly you've performed in your premed classes) you would get a lot more help in these forums

 

[efle]

Not bait by any means. I would be happy to verify things with you if need be. I'm just a little frustrated, and don't mean to sound absolute, but I know I'm capable. Now everyone is telling me otherwise

Alright lets do it, PM me a pic of a piece of paper saying "hello efle May 6 2019" next to a screen showing your grades. I've never met an engineer so bad at googling and reading data that they could fail to see a 2.6 GPA was lethal, but I'm prepared to eat my hat if you really aren't trolling

 

[DrRiker]

Gotcha. Interestingly, out of my friend group, I'm the highest and people come to me for help. Not sure what stage you're in, but did you find medical school (or residency) to be a joke compared to our coursework?

Not there yet, but don't count on it. It may be "easier" in that you're not determining boundary conditions and solving differential equations, but the volume of coursework will require just as many or more hours.

 

[LizzyM]

Where’s that lock-happy mod when you need him the most

Don't rain on our parade. Max has some serious questions and I want to address them.

 

[Maxamillion12]

You think it should but it doesn't.

And we see hundreds of Engineering students with GPAs of 3.8 and higher. So that would be like a 4.7 GPA in the land of pre-meds??

Do you have data on this? Maybe the confusion is that I'm not interested in going to a "top school," but I'll be happy getting in anywhere really.

 

[DrRiker]

Gotcha. Interestingly, out of my friend group, I'm the highest and people come to me for help. Not sure what stage you're in, but did you find medical school (or residency) to be a joke compared to our coursework?

If this is true, then you need to switch major or schools to salvage your undergraduate GPA and then do a special master's program to prove your academic fortitude.

 

[Maxamillion12]

Alright lets do it, PM me a pic of a piece of paper saying "hello efle May 6 2019" next to a screen showing your grades. I've never met an engineer so bad at googling and reading data that they could fail to see a 2.6 GPA was lethal, but I'm prepared to eat my hat if you really aren't trolling

I'll do this after I get out of class. I'm seriously not kidding, but don't want everyone is going to mock me over it. Now all of the sudden I'm feeling like crap.

 

[LizzyM]

Do you have data on this? Maybe the confusion is that I'm not interested in going to a "top school," but I'll be happy getting in anywhere really.

Here's the data by major for all applicants and all matriculants using the common application for MD schools (AMCAS).
https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstablea17.pdf
unfortunately, there isn't a category for Engineering and I think that it is part of "other".

 

[DrRiker]

I'll do this after I get out of class. I'm seriously not kidding, but don't want everyone is going to mock me over it. Now all of the sudden I'm feeling like crap.

I had similar realizations and as a result had to take more gap years than intended. It hurts, but it helps to make corrections now than during gap years like me.

 

[efle]

Here's the data by major for all applicants and all matriculants using the common application for MD schools (AMCAS).
https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstablea17.pdf
unfortunately, there isn't a category for Engineering and I think that it is part of "other".

Math and Physics/Chemistry were both 3.7 averages, same as Bio and everything else, so surely 3.7 must be standard for the E the STEM as well

 

[LizzyM]

Math and Physics/Chemistry were both 3.7 averages, same as Bio and everything else, so surely 3.7 must be standard for the E the STEM as well

Even if it isn't, I'd be shocked if it were < 3.5.

 

[Maxamillion12]

Even if it isn't, I'd be shocked if it were < 3.5.

PM'd elfe. Do retakes count? I retook gen chemistry and got an A. Got a C originally.

 

[Tree1996]

This trolling is God-like, 10/10 would read again

 

[Maxamillion12]

This trolling is God-like, 10/10 would read again

I don't know why everyone says this. I did what Elfe wanted and PM'd a semester of my grades as well as I could. If you want to feel dumb go right ahead and say it. Lol your user name is literally Tree. Who comes up with that?

 

[Hawkeye397]

Grades aside, I was a physics major with hundreds of hours of physics research at a national lab and I can tell you only in one of my interviews was the interviewer even remotely impressed/interested in the fact I was a physics major and did research in physics. They were much more interested in my neuroscience research and me explaining my 2 B-‘s and 1 C

 

[efle]

My God. Its real

 

[Maxamillion12]

Dude, no one "breezes through" med school no matter how smart they think they are. Get off your high horse that somehow being an engineer means you're so much smarter than other premeds. If premed courses were so easy compared to your engineering curriculum, you should be getting straight A's in bio and ochem with minimal effort. "I would have a 4.0 if I actually tried" is a BS excuse and makes it seem like you're just lazy and have poor work ethic.

The MCAT isn't just all memorization either. Yeah, of course there are things you just need to memorize, but you also have to be able to use critical thinking, which your engineering studies should theoretically help you with. There's no memorizing on the CARS section. My advice is don't even worry about the MCAT until you get your GPA up. It's going to take years of straight A's to raise a 2.6 to even a borderline acceptable level. By that time your MCAT score will be expired.

I get what you're saying, but just tell me Do you believe that medical school difficulty really is equivalent to undergraduate engineering difficulty. I could easily go through the aid first book, memorize it, and crush step 1. I'd rather put my efforts to that honestly.

 

[ndafife]

I get what you're saying, but just tell me Do you believe that medical school difficulty really is equivalent to undergraduate engineering difficulty. I could easily go through the aid first book, memorize it, and crush step 1. I'd rather put my efforts to that honestly.

And all this is coming because of that B+ in nutrition?

I'm really just baffled how someone doing so poorly in premed classes can be this confident med school is going to be a breeze for them

 

[Tree1996]

I don't know why everyone says this. I did what Elfe wanted and PM'd a semester of my grades as well as I could. If you want to feel dumb go right ahead and say it. Lol your user name is literally Tree. Who comes up with that?

Uh oh SoMeOnEs UpSeT. But in all honesty, as an engineering major in undergrad myself who switched to medicine, I can't help but assume that your post is a troll because you seem so out of touch. One is not inherently easier than the other. Also, how could you even assume all this without taking any of the more intense pre-med courses? If you're being serious, I can tell you that medicine cannot be generalized as "easier" than engineering. That being said, it could come more naturally to you, but we won't know that until you take the courses. And SMH don't hate on my name, not everyone can be Maxamillion12.

 

[efle]

I get what you're saying, but just tell me Do you believe that medical school difficulty really is equivalent to undergraduate engineering difficulty. I could easily go through the aid first book, memorize it, and crush step 1. I'd rather put my efforts to that honestly.

It looks like it's all about memorizing, but it's not. You have to memorize frameworks, but that's just learning the language. The actual challenge comes from solving novel presentations that aren't answered on any page of First Aid.

It's like saying I could ace any Physics class because it's just memorizing some formulas and then plugging in values. Only a clueless idiot looking in from the outside can perceive it that way.

Anyways for starters, go get a highly competitive MCAT in the next couple months, then report back.

 

[HuskyMD Emeritus]

My undergrad degree was BSEE, and I also found engineering courses much more difficult than all the premed biology and chemistry classes (including OChem). However, I am troubled by your comment that you got Cs because you didn't try, or you took 17 credits of classes. Imagine you telling your patients and their families you could have cured them, successfully operated on them, avoided the complications but you didn't try, or you were too busy. I don't think anyone wants a doctor with this attitude.
Medicine is much more than memorizing a lot of facts. Patients and their illnesses do not read text books. Book knowledge is not enough to make a doctor.

 

[LizzyM]

I Googled "hubris" and this thread popped up.

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

But isn't there any leeway on my coursework being more difficult?

Plenty of engineering majors with 3.6-4.0 s/cGPA applying to medical school.

 

[RNthenDoc]

If you’re as smart as you say, you’d know you don’t have a snowball’s chance in Florida at getting accepted into a US medical school.

 

[Maxamillion12]

Plenty of engineering majors with 3.6-4.0 s/cGPA applying to medical school.

Do they count retakes with that? What if I retook some of my classes?

If you’re as smart as you say, you’d know you don’t have a snowball’s chance in Florida at getting accepted into a US medical school.

Gee thanks for the support. You seem friendly. I don't understand why I'm getting attacked for asking simple advice. I talked to some people on reddit and they said I had a good shot, but to post here.

 

[Maxamillion12]

It looks like it's all about memorizing, but it's not. You have to memorize frameworks, but that's just learning the language. The actual challenge comes from solving novel presentations that aren't answered on any page of First Aid.

It's like saying I could ace any Physics class because it's just memorizing some formulas and then plugging in values. Only a clueless idiot looking in from the outside can perceive it that way.

Anyways for starters, go get a highly competitive MCAT in the next couple months, then report back.

Nonsense. If you go into the medical school forms, students stay s1 is entirely a recall based test (ie did you memorize this symptom). My friend, who's in medical school, showed me USMLE-RX and it's exactly what I thought.

 

[Skeletorr]

Max, unless you can back up your claims of superior iq with actual numbers (gpa,MCAT), all of your talk is unfounded.

 

[Hawkeye397]

Do they count retakes with that? What if I retook some of my classes?



Gee thanks for the support. You seem friendly. I don't understand why I'm getting attacked for asking simple advice. I talked to some people on reddit and they said I had a good shot, but to post here.

Here is a chart that should help you understand where you stand in relation to other applicants:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

With your scores it’s not impossible as people have done it, but you’re going to need to have a lot of extracurriculars/ interesting experiences/ clinical exposure if you want to put yourself in the best position. If you wanted to have an OK chance of going to a USMD school it looks like you would need an MCAT >514.

You definitely need to raise your GPA to be considered competitive but you may have better chances with DO.

 

[LizzyM]

Do they count retakes with that? What if I retook some of my classes?

All grades count equally. If you post a C in a 4 credit course and get an A on a retake that would contribute 8 points for the first attempt and 16 for the second for a grade point average of 3.0 over 8 credits.

I talked to some people on reddit and they said I had a good shot, but to post here.

Because those people on reddit didn't want to be the bearers of bad news and they knew that you'd be eaten alive here we'd be realistic about your chances and that you'd associate us with your disappointment rather than take it out on reddit folk.

 

[Maxamillion12]

Here is a chart that should help you understand where you stand in relation to other applicants:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

With your scores it’s not impossible as people have done it, but you’re going to need to have a lot of extracurriculars/ interesting experiences/ clinical exposure if you want to put yourself in the best position. If you wanted to have an OK chance of going to a USMD school it looks like you would need an MCAT >514.

You definitely need to raise your GPA to be considered competitive but you may have better chances with DO.

Gotcha. I was looking at AUC, and they appear to have lower stats than most other schools. Their average GPA is 3.2 and a 498 MCAT, which I'm in striking distance for. Thoughts?