ENT Chances M4

[s1213]

Hi there, I know, another one of these...
Dual degree masters
245 Step 1
265 Step 2
5 pubs/posters in CT and Transplant surgery
B in Surgery A- in IM
Talked to my home dept and they said I might be able to match somewhere but were hedging and weren't very helpful. Any insights? I can try to get a case report or 2 done and signing up for 1 away and will try to crush my home elective. Would I have to dual apply another specialty (Rads) or plan a research fellowship/delay graduation

Thanks!

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[ricksimmonsrafowens]

Apply to back-ups. Sounds like your home department isn't too excited about your application which makes things somewhat difficult - can you figure out why they were lukewarm in regards to your application? Is it that they're a Top 5 ENT department and can get rock-star ENT gunners with 260+ Steps? or is there something in your application that is making them hesitant?

You will likely be asked why no A/Honors in Surgery in interviews. Reflect on your experience and try to figure out why you didn't Honor/get As - was it knowledge (you have excellent Steps though), communication skills, professionalism? Correct that for your sub-Is.

I'm not sure about a research fellowship in ENT. What does your home department say? Would you do it at home or at a different institution?

 

[NYCdude]

Dual apply ENT and Gen Surg.

 

[s1213]

Thanks so much for the reply. I think it’s mainly because I’m deciding late in the game instead of having a long-standing connection with the department and not because of performance issues. I did plenty wel on the clinical portion it was just the shelf and I’m hoping I proved that with Step 2. Hopefully crushing the rotation in a few weeks will change their minds!

Apply to back-ups. Sounds like your home department isn't too excited about your application which makes things somewhat difficult - can you figure out why they were lukewarm in regards to your application? Is it that they're a Top 5 ENT department and can get rock-star ENT gunners with 260+ Steps? or is there something in your application that is making them hesitant?

You will likely be asked why no A/Honors in Surgery in interviews. Reflect on your experience and try to figure out why you didn't Honor/get As - was it knowledge (you have excellent Steps though), communication skills, professionalism? Correct that for your sub-Is.

I'm not sure about a research fellowship in ENT. What does your home department say? Would you do it at home or at a different institution?

 

[operaman]

The lack of ENT research is your biggest ding in an otherwise decent application. Your steps are ok; around average for the field and similar percentiles despite pseudo-jump in 3-digit score, but shows a consistency in performance that’s reassuring. The B in surgery hurts but if your Evals are strong and youve honored all the other clerkships and you get strong ENT letters it may not cost you too dearly.

The research is going to hurt you. No way around it. Unless those 5 pubs are all actuslly first author pubs (not just posters) in good journals, the research is weaker than what most applicants will have. A couple case reports MIGHT buy you a few interviews but unless you have some other stellar EC or back story on your application, you will be at high risk for not matching if the pool is anything like this last year.

Yours is exactly the sort of application that can derive exceptional benefit from a research year. You have a decent app that would look fantastic with 5-10 first author ENT publications and the strong letters that would go along with that. Before going through the stress and expense of applying, give serious thought to a year out and crushing some research at a place known for setting students up to match well. My Med school department was well known for this and had a great record of students churning out 8-12 pubs in their year; there are many others that do the same.

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

Thanks so much for the reply. I think it’s mainly because I’m deciding late in the game instead of having a long-standing connection with the department and not because of performance issues. I did plenty wel on the clinical portion it was just the shelf and I’m hoping I proved that with Step 2. Hopefully crushing the rotation in a few weeks will change their minds!

alright! That sounds like a good plan. I commiserate on you about the shelf exams, but you did rock Step 2! Do an away at a program that is a good fit for you stats wise and get an LOR from them. Try as hard as possible to get really good LORs in general, I think they will help your application a lot. Try to have an ENT research project to list for ERAS. I think your home program will come around once they get to know what an awesome person you are, make sure you impress them on your sub I!

 

[moto_za]

You will match.

 

[Hippocrates II]

What a messed up system we're in when everything OP has accomplished is considered barely adequate. I would drag my unmentionables through broken glass to have a CV like this.

 

[afib123]

Probably will man. People keep telling me the same that I don't have much research in the field I am applying to. But if you decide in 3rd year and your home department sucks in doing productive research, you won't have much. It is not like everyone who has research did groundbreaking work. They happened to get lucky to know their interest early and tagged along their attending or resident by doing some chart reviews. The ones whose research should stand out is the ones that took a project from the beginning to the end, which is very few in my experience.

Anyways, hopefully some program will understand that any research is good research.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What a messed up system we're in when everything OP has accomplished is considered barely adequate. I would drag my unmentionables through broken glass to have a CV like this.

There is nothing messed up about it. ENT is one of the most competitive fields in medicine and it has a limited number of training spots. The people who apply ENT are generally complete rockstars. OPs app is overall very very good, however for ENT yes it is only adequate.

 

[afib123]

What a messed up system we're in when everything OP has accomplished is considered barely adequate. I would drag my unmentionables through broken glass to have a CV like this.

I don't think everything there is. The new trend seems to be a research heavy app, which is highly school dependent and when you made your career choice. Bad way to separate students but the way it works

 

[ndafife]

What a messed up system we're in when everything OP has accomplished is considered barely adequate. I would drag my unmentionables through broken glass to have a CV like this.

308 of 398 US Applicants matched in ENT this year. So US MD applicants rolled in with a 77% match rate (71% match rate overall). When 1/4 aren't gonna match you need to be a stud to feel good

 

[Hippocrates II]

There is nothing messed up about it. ENT is one of the most competitive fields in medicine and it has a limited number of training spots. The people who apply ENT are generally complete rockstars. OPs app is overall very very good, however for ENT yes it is only adequate.

Agree to disagree. I understand it's competitive, and I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think this system we have in place where you spend years of your life desperately trying to memorize 30k anki decks, parse through hundreds/thousands of lectures/labs/outside resources trying to pick out the 'high yield facts', and attempt to attach your name to as many projects as you possibly can so that you might have a chance at becoming the physician you want to become is in any way healthy or a good way to approach it. Again, no idea what the answer is, but when you're sacrificing your life to get a 265 on a board exam, only to be told you're adequate, there is something wrong with that IMO. It's no wonder so many people are neurotic, depressed, and disillusioned in medical school. Just my $0.02, but I find the whole thing to be unnecessarily malignant.

Best of luck to OP.

 

[Lawpy]

Agree to disagree. I understand it's competitive, and I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think this system we have in place where you spend years of your life desperately trying to memorize 30k anki decks, parse through hundreds/thousands of lectures/labs/outside resources trying to pick out the 'high yield facts', and attempt to attach your name to as many projects as you possibly can so that you might have a chance at becoming the physician you want to become is in any way healthy or a good way to approach it. Again, no idea what the answer is, but when you're sacrificing your life to get a 265 on a board exam, only to be told you're adequate, there is something wrong with that IMO. It's no wonder so many people are neurotic, depressed, and disillusioned in medical school. Just my $0.02, but I find the whole thing to be unnecessarily malignant.

Best of luck to OP.

i think its just part of an unfortunate game with programs in control. Stinks but it’s what it is

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

but when you're sacrificing your life to get a 265 on a board exam, only to be told you're adequate, there is something wrong with that IMO. It's no wonder so many people are neurotic, depressed, and disillusioned in medical school. Just my $0.02, but I find the whole thing to be unnecessarily malignant.

1. No one is telling 265 scorers they are simply adequate.
2. Again, OP has a very excellent app, unless it's compared to the rest of the ENT applicants. From that aspect is it objectively adequate. No one is making this opinion up simply to be a jacka**. The data shows that it is simply adequate, that idea is a fact.
2. If you can't handle the heat then get out of the fire. Just because you get into medical school doesn't mean you get to be whatever kind of doctor you want.

Our system has flaws yes, but this isn't one of them.

 

[s1213]

Honesty I’ll take objectively adequate for a very competitive specialty

1. No one is telling 265 scorers they are simply adequate.
2. Again, OP has a very excellent app, unless it's compared to the rest of the ENT applicants. From that aspect is it objectively adequate. No one is making this opinion up simply to be a jacka**. The data shows that it is simply adequate, that idea is a fact.
2. If you can't handle the heat then get out of the fire. Just because you get into medical school doesn't mean you get to be whatever kind of doctor you want.

Our system has flaws yes, but this isn't one of them.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Honesty I’ll take objectively adequate for a very competitive specialty

Exactly. That in and of itself is an accomplishment.

 

[afib123]

Agree to disagree. I understand it's competitive, and I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think this system we have in place where you spend years of your life desperately trying to memorize 30k anki decks, parse through hundreds/thousands of lectures/labs/outside resources trying to pick out the 'high yield facts', and attempt to attach your name to as many projects as you possibly can so that you might have a chance at becoming the physician you want to become is in any way healthy or a good way to approach it. Again, no idea what the answer is, but when you're sacrificing your life to get a 265 on a board exam, only to be told you're adequate, there is something wrong with that IMO. It's no wonder so many people are neurotic, depressed, and disillusioned in medical school. Just my $0.02, but I find the whole thing to be unnecessarily malignant.

Best of luck to OP.

Overall agree with what you are saying except Step actually makes it easier. If OP didn't have step, his application would be below average. Med school will be even more chaotic without it

 

[operaman]

Yeah it’s definitely an imperfect system.

The 265 on ck is not only average for ent but remember that the step 1 and ck scales are entirely different. They’re as related as step 1 and the LSAT’s 3 digit scale. People look at that and see a 20 point increase in step score but that is incorrect. In terms of exam performance alone there’s a 15-20 point offset between step1 and CK, making the step performance about the same. Thankfully for applicants many faculty are as yet unaware of this but it’s right there in the NBME publications.

It’s a fine score for the OP and should not close any doors which is how I tend to look at step scores for any competitive field. While a 250+ step1 May open doors in some fields, in the highly competitive ones it merely prevents them from closing. I’ve personally known people with a 270 and a 280 on step 1 who didn’t match ENT, so it’s definitely not enough by itself to assure a match.

The point of giving a candid impression of someone’s chances is to arm them with information to maximize their chances of matching. I have friends from Med school and co residents now who were in similar spots and took a research year and came to the application cycle with stellar CVs and their pick of interviews. I was lucky in that I knew I wanted ENT from day 1 so I started early.

Somewhere on the otomatch site is a list of self reported applicants’ stats and a breakdown of interviews and how well they matched, etc. Its worth finding it as it gives a little more perspective than the charting outcomes data since you can sort by different categories and see how well those people fared.

 

[Gilakend]

Yeah it’s definitely an imperfect system.

The 265 on ck is not only average for ent but remember that the step 1 and ck scales are entirely different. They’re as related as step 1 and the LSAT’s 3 digit scale. People look at that and see a 20 point increase in step score but that is incorrect. In terms of exam performance alone there’s a 15-20 point offset between step1 and CK, making the step performance about the same. Thankfully for applicants many faculty are as yet unaware of this but it’s right there in the NBME publications.

It’s a fine score for the OP and should not close any doors which is how I tend to look at step scores for any competitive field. While a 250+ step1 May open doors in some fields, in the highly competitive ones it merely prevents them from closing. I’ve personally known people with a 270 and a 280 on step 1 who didn’t match ENT, so it’s definitely not enough by itself to assure a match.

The point of giving a candid impression of someone’s chances is to arm them with information to maximize their chances of matching. I have friends from Med school and co residents now who were in similar spots and took a research year and came to the application cycle with stellar CVs and their pick of interviews. I was lucky in that I knew I wanted ENT from day 1 so I started early.

Somewhere on the otomatch site is a list of self reported applicants’ stats and a breakdown of interviews and how well they matched, etc. Its worth finding it as it gives a little more perspective than the charting outcomes data since you can sort by different categories and see how well those people fared.

Definitely Step 2 has higher averages, but OP went from 76th percentile to 93rd percentile, quite the jump imo.

Source: https://www.usmle.org/pdfs/transcripts/USMLE_Step_Examination_Score_Interpretation_Guidelines.pdf

 

[operaman]

Definitely Step 2 has higher averages, but OP went from 76th percentile to 93rd percentile, quite the jump imo.

Source: https://www.usmle.org/pdfs/transcripts/USMLE_Step_Examination_Score_Interpretation_Guidelines.pdf

Hmmm good point. I feel like it used to be a bigger spread but his table shows it's about a 10 pt difference for same percentile, so I stand corrected!

 

[tegomoomoo]

The lack of ENT research is your biggest ding in an otherwise decent application. Your steps are ok; around average for the field and similar percentiles despite pseudo-jump in 3-digit score, but shows a consistency in performance that’s reassuring. The B in surgery hurts but if your Evals are strong and youve honored all the other clerkships and you get strong ENT letters it may not cost you too dearly.

The research is going to hurt you. No way around it. Unless those 5 pubs are all actuslly first author pubs (not just posters) in good journals, the research is weaker than what most applicants will have. A couple case reports MIGHT buy you a few interviews but unless you have some other stellar EC or back story on your application, you will be at high risk for not matching if the pool is anything like this last year.

Yours is exactly the sort of application that can derive exceptional benefit from a research year. You have a decent app that would look fantastic with 5-10 first author ENT publications and the strong letters that would go along with that. Before going through the stress and expense of applying, give serious thought to a year out and crushing some research at a place known for setting students up to match well. My Med school department was well known for this and had a great record of students churning out 8-12 pubs in their year; there are many others that do the same.

Hi, I am a third year medical student in similar boat and I am considering taking a research year off. Would you mind sharing what was the name of your medical school that you said is great for generating many publications out? In addition, do you know of any other programs with similar reputation? Thank you

 

[order66.exe]

Do not apply with this application. I repeat, do not apply with this application.

I went unmatched in ENT this year. I was 250s AOA with a lot of non ENT research, honors in Medicine and Surgery and Honors in my home Sub-I and my two aways with great feedback. My mentors all told me I was a shoe-in. My home dept. was enthusiastic about my app.

I still went unmatched.

If your home department is hedging what they are actually telling you is "If you go forward there is a strong chance of not matching."
If you choose to apply this year make sure you dual apply to another specialty. Or take a research year.

 

[emdee_inside]

Do not apply with this application. I repeat, do not apply with this application.

I went unmatched in ENT this year. I was 250s AOA with a lot of non ENT research, honors in Medicine and Surgery and Honors in my home Sub-I and my two aways with great feedback. My mentors all told me I was a shoe-in. My home dept. was enthusiastic about my app.

I still went unmatched.

If your home department is hedging what they are actually telling you is "If you go forward there is a strong chance of not matching."
If you choose to apply this year make sure you dual apply to another specialty. Or take a research year.

THIS^^ exact situation happened to one of my buddies this year. Take the next year to bulk up an application for rads or something else. Just think of yourself ranked #3 out of 3 positions at a program in ENT. Now think of another candidate also ranked #3. To decide between you two, what is the PD/Chair/faculty going to do? They're going straight back to the paper. And on paper, it says you got a 245 Step 1 (the other candidate might have a higher score - likely in ENT). On paper, it says you have 5 pubs in non-ENT (other candidate might have 3 pubs in ENT). On paper, you got a 'B' in surgery (other candidate... you get the point).

I am not trying to be an arsehole. I am trying to save you the torment and agony of going through another year doing research or whatever only to be dismayed at the extremely low likelihood that you will match a second time around. Best wishes to you going forward, mate.

 

[esob]

Reign it in people and try to show a little professionalism and courtesy with one another. This will be the only warning.

 

[throwaway1000000]

I will go against the grain. I matched in a competitive surgical subspecialty that had 1 in 5 not match this year. I am not ENT, but I went through a similar process.

I feel like people are overly cautious because the consequences of being wrong (not matching) are so stressful. Everyone with >240 and good LORs had no issues getting enough interviews to match. High scorers I know who didn’t match had strange personalities.

If you are top program or bust, then a research year is needed

I would generally agree with this. I know people that matched into urology this year with step 1 and step 2 in 230s and 240s (just above avg) with pretty mediocre grades while people with 250s and 260s didn't match. Research, good letters of rec, interviews, and aways seem to play a big role in these fields. Step scores do given the step avg is high but can go unmatched with high step scores (interview performance? away performance? letters? hard to say)

 

[order66.exe]

I will go against the grain. I matched in a competitive surgical subspecialty that had 1 in 5 not match this year. I am not ENT, but I went through a similar process.

I feel like people are overly cautious because the consequences of being wrong (not matching) are so stressful. Everyone with >240 and good LORs had no issues getting enough interviews to match. High scorers I know who didn’t match had strange personalities.

If you are top program or bust, then a research year is needed

This is a combination of survivorship bias and just world fallacy. This is advice that gets people into trouble.

"Just apply! Your sure to match!" and then when you don't match those same people shrug their shoulder and tell you to try again.

 

[sw99]

Hi there, I know, another one of these...
Dual degree masters
245 Step 1
265 Step 2
5 pubs/posters in CT and Transplant surgery
B in Surgery A- in IM
Talked to my home dept and they said I might be able to match somewhere but were hedging and weren't very helpful. Any insights? I can try to get a case report or 2 done and signing up for 1 away and will try to crush my home elective. Would I have to dual apply another specialty (Rads) or plan a research fellowship/delay graduation

Thanks!

Hey, looks great. Make sure to get the case report so that you don't sell yourself short. Wouldn't recommend applying to another specialty as a backup--this looks fickle. Best of luck.

 

[peachrings]

At what benchmark would you not recommend applying to a backup specialty? If the match is that rough, shouldn't everyone have a backup?

 

[themoonman2]

I

It depends on what you want out of your career.

If you have >240, I would put your full effort behind the field you want. You can't hide the fact a field is your backup if you do aways, get letters, and do research in a different field. Doing subis in your backup will take time and energy from focusing on your first choice specialty. The fact that programs will know they are your back up specialty will limit your opportunities in that back up field.

If I didn't match, I would rather do a research year and reapply to the same field or put my full effort behind applying to a different field. I wouldn't want to settle for an okay program in a back up field if my application is strong enough to match into a great program in that field. I would rather put my best foot forward. If I didn't want to do academics or a fellowship, I would be more okay applying to a back up specialty

I felt the same way when applying ENT this year. I ultimately matched but definitely considered applying to a backup because of how competitive the field is and knowing that I wouldn't be a top top candidate. I decided not to apply to a backup for the exact same reasons you listed above and fully agree with what you said, but I would also add that people should consider how they'll pay for their next year if they don't match. Without getting one of the few paid big name research positions that have a salary, the only option is to rely on savings and parents for the year without doing a prelim. For some people (including me), that can be impossible, so I was resigned to doing a prelim if I didn't match.

 

[peachrings]

Let’s say I don’t match ENT and do a research year/prelim. Would that limit options when applying the Gen surg (second specialty I would be happy with)?

 

[longhaul3]

Let’s say I don’t match ENT and do a research year/prelim. Would that limit options when applying the Gen surg (second specialty I would be happy with)?

If you did a prelim year it would be obvious that you didn't match, and it would likely be hard to get time away to go work on your application and go on interviews, but if you're competitive enough for ENT not to dual-apply (even if you don't actually match), you're probably competitive enough to match comfortably in gen surg.

 

[sw99]

It depends on what you want out of your career.

If you have >240, I would put your full effort behind the field you want. You can't hide the fact a field is your backup if you do aways, get letters, and do research in a different field. Doing subis in your backup will take time and energy from focusing on your first choice specialty. The fact that programs will know they are your back up specialty will limit your opportunities in that back up field.

If I didn't match, I would rather do a research year and reapply to the same field or put my full effort behind applying to a different field. I wouldn't want to settle for an okay program in a back up field if my application is strong enough to match into a great program in that field. I would rather put my best foot forward. If I didn't want to do academics or a fellowship, I would be more okay applying to a back up specialty

This doesn't make any sense

I felt the same way when applying ENT this year. I ultimately matched but definitely considered applying to a backup because of how competitive the field is and knowing that I wouldn't be a top top candidate. I decided not to apply to a backup for the exact same reasons you listed above and fully agree with what you said, but I would also add that people should consider how they'll pay for their next year if they don't match. Without getting one of the few paid big name research positions that have a salary, the only option is to rely on savings and parents for the year without doing a prelim. For some people (including me), that can be impossible, so I was resigned to doing a prelim if I didn't match.

Agree with this

If you did a prelim year it would be obvious that you didn't match, and it would likely be hard to get time away to go work on your application and go on interviews, but if you're competitive enough for ENT not to dual-apply (even if you don't actually match), you're probably competitive enough to match comfortably in gen surg.

Agree with this too

 

[longhaul3]

This doesn't make any sense

I think it was in reference to matching in the backup specialty. If he wants to go into fellowship and academics regardless of specialty, he would want to match at the best possible program in the backup specialty which would be harder if dual-applying vs. waiting until the next year and giving it your best shot.

 

[sw99]

I think it was in reference to matching in the backup specialty. If he wants to go into fellowship and academics regardless of specialty, he would want to match at the best possible program in the backup specialty which would be harder if dual-applying vs. waiting until the next year and giving it your best shot.

This still doesn't make any sense

 

[sw99]

What about it doesn’t make sense?

It's like a nonsense post; no offense man but you are just saying things that don't really mean anything, I mean the words are coming out and yes there's correct syntax and pronounciation but no substance--I don't understand what you mean about shooting for #1 vs. waiting a year to apply for a backup. What?

 

[FindersFee5]

It's like a nonsense post; no offense man but you are just saying things that don't really mean anything, I mean the words are coming out and yes there's correct syntax and pronounciation but no substance--I don't understand what you mean about shooting for #1 vs. waiting a year to apply for a backup. What?

Nah man he made sense. It'll be clearer if you use actual specialties - Let's say he's applying to ortho. He loves ortho, but mostly he just loves operating, so he's thinking about applying to gen surg too. However, the thought of doing appys and gallbladders for the rest of his life doesn't thrill him. So if he ended up going gen surg, he wants to make sure he's at a good enough program to match the fellowship he wants.

So the order is any ortho > academic general surgery >>> community general surgery.

Applying ortho and at the same time applying gen surg as a backup might significantly weaken his backup applications, making it more likely for him to match at a low tier academic center. So his decisional tree was: Go all in applying ortho this year, if he doesn't match, take a year off or prelim year to strengthen his gen surg application and apply to gen surg the next year, where he'll probably be able to match at a decent academic program. Even borderline ortho candidates are pretty strong candidates in general surgery.

@Pepe18 , let me know if I'm misrepresenting you!

 

[peachrings]

Thanks, Pepe18, this is kind of my thought process as well. I think I have a pretty competitive application for ENT and general surgery (260s/AOA/pubs, but mid-low tier school, HP surgery). However, I fully realize the ENT match is a ****-show and not matching is a definite possibility. I also think reapplication bias is just too much, especially when compared against fresh M4s. It's good to know that it's possible to match into a good Gen Surg program from a surgery prelim year.

 

[order66.exe]

Thanks, Pepe18, this is kind of my thought process as well. I think I have a pretty competitive application for ENT and general surgery (260s/AOA/pubs, but mid-low tier school, HP surgery). However, I fully realize the ENT match is a ****-show and not matching is a definite possibility. I also think reapplication bias is just too much, especially when compared against fresh M4s. It's good to know that it's possible to match into a good Gen Surg program from a surgery prelim year.

Not matching is a lot like that Mike Tyson quote “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” You have terrible options if you don’t match.


You can choose to be a prelim but again there is survivorship bias. You only hear about the prelims who match not the ones who end up in the nightmare scenario of not matching again. As a prelim you are a literal indentured servant and dependent on your masters to take pity on you and try to help you match.

In my mind, as someone who failed to match ENT with stats just like yours, from a mid/low-teir school and better clinical grades. I wish I had dual applied last year. I had a friend who dual applied NSGY and IM who had a ton of great IM interviews. He had a nice low stress cycle and ultimately matched to NSGY. I think if you can get good letters for your backup specialty and invest time in killing a sub-I you’ll get enough interview options that you’ll be satisfied with where you match if you end up in that specialty.

 

[peachrings]

Would this work with dual-applying ENT and General surgery? or only with surgical sub and non surgical field? Further compounding this is the fact that I have no idea when hospital rotations will even start again.

 

[order66.exe]

Would this work with dual-applying ENT and General surgery? or only with surgical sub and non surgical field? Further compounding this is the fact that I have no idea when hospital rotations will even start again.

Since ERAS is likely delayed and aways are looking like no-gos this year I think it would be so easy to dual apply. Gen-surg sub-I first, ENT sub-I next, get letters from both, write two personal statements. You’re done.

 

[sw99]

As a prelim you are a literal indentured servant and dependent on your masters to take pity on you and try to help you match.

That's not exactly the right attitude, but ok

I think if you can get good letters for your backup specialty and invest time in killing a sub-I you’ll get enough interview options that you’ll be satisfied with where you match if you end up in that specialty.

Bad advice

I think it would be so easy to dual apply. Gen-surg sub-I first, ENT sub-I next, get letters from both, write two personal statements. You’re done.

Again, bad advice. It seems counterintuitive but putting all your eggs in one basket IS the best strategy for residency. Trust me.

 

[sw99]

double

 

[order66.exe]

That's not exactly the right attitude, but ok

If you're in a crap/malignant categorical program, well, at least its categorical. There is a light at the end of the tunnel and the program has to put in at least some effort to train you. Prelims, especially unmatched gensurg prelims, are the epitome of service over education. Hell there are even PGY-2 prelims. How can any program dedicated to 'medical education' conscionably have a PGY-2 prelim? Because you can get qualified competent people to do a **** job for low pay because they have no other options.

Again, bad advice. It seems counterintuitive but putting all your eggs in one basket IS the best strategy for residency. Trust me.

According to who? If you came from a top tier program or were well connected, then I would say just apply to ENT. But the reality is that over 1/4 USMD applicants who applied to ENT this year did not match. This is the Omaha-beach of specialty matches; We had a worse match rate then Derm, Ortho, NSGY or Urology. Would you do an elective procedure with a 25% chance of serious morbidity without considering other options?

 

[sw99]

Last year ENT had a match rate of 96% for US MDs.

 

[sw99]

a particularly competitive year.

In this particular case,

That’s why each applicant should do a cost-risk assessment for themself to determine if their risk of not matching justifies the negatives of dual applying. There is no one size fits all answer. That’s why I said to also consider what your ultimate goals are

Are you sure you don't rep. FRIEDA?

 

[order66.exe]

Everything everyone says has some sort of bias. You are biased because you didn’t match. Everything I say, everything you say, everything everyone says should be taken with a grain of salt.

Last year ENT had a match rate of 96% for US MDs. There was a big increase in the number of applicants this year, likely because it wasn’t competitive last year, which decreased the match rate to 77%. A similar thing happened in urology where the match rate was 91% for US MDs, more people applied, and the match rate for US MDs was 83% this year. Small fields are subject to fluxes in match rate based on the number of people who apply that year.

When the match rate was 96%, only 2 applicants with greater than 250 didn’t match and the other 85% who didn’t match had below 250. @peachrings said they had 260s and AOA and research. They are in a category of applicants that have a very high match rate. Your opinion is something that they should strongly consider, but it’s also influenced by a particularly competitive year.

It is also important to realize that the 25% unmatched rate doesn’t apply to all applicants equally. That’s why each applicant should do a cost-risk assessment for themself to determine if their risk of not matching justifies the negatives of dual applying. There is no one size fits all answer. That’s why I said to also consider what your ultimate goals are

Edit: I got the ENT match years mix up. It was 96% in the 2018 charting the outcomes. 77% last year and 74% this year

The high match year was an anomaly influenced by program specific paragraphs which limited the number of programs people applied to. A good year has been ~80 and routinely into the 70s. We’ve now regressed to the mean and what it was like in the 2000s/ early 2010s. But this volatility is precisely a reason to consider creating a strong back up plan and hedging your bets.

I agree with you that I probably would be singing a different tune if I had matched. But there’s a high risk of catastrophe for someone who worked very hard in medical school. My own advisors were much too liberal about my chances. The only way to overcome survivorship bias is for people who don’t match to speak.

I also agree to take everything with a grain of salt. Don’t trust any particular advice or any particular person. Cross check it all.

Ok boomer

 

[sw99]

The high match year was an anomaly influenced by program specific paragraphs which limited the number of programs people applied to. A good year has been ~80 and routinely into the 70s. We’ve now regressed to the mean and what it was like in the 2000s/ early 2010s. But this volatility is precisely a reason to consider creating a strong back up plan and hedging your bets.

I agree with you that I probably would be singing a different tune if I had matched. But there’s a high risk of catastrophe for someone who worked very hard in medical school. My own advisors were much too liberal about my chances. The only way to overcome survivorship bias is for people who don’t match to speak.

I also agree to take everything with a grain of salt. Don’t trust any particular advice or any particular person. Cross check it all.

Again, your post makes no sense.

Ok boomer

Rude

 

[sw99]

Again, bad advice. It seems counterintuitive but putting all your eggs in one basket IS the best strategy for residency. Trust me.
According to who? If you came from a top tier program or were well connected, then I would say just apply to ENT. But the reality is that over 1/4 USMD applicants who applied to ENT this year did not match. This is the Omaha-beach of specialty matches; We had a worse match rate then Derm, Ortho, NSGY or Urology. Would you do an elective procedure with a 25% chance of serious morbidity without considering other options?

This post doesn't make any sense.

 

[FindersFee5]

This post doesn't make any sense; are you on drugs man?

Again, your post makes no sense.
Rude

Bud, literally nothing is making sense to you. I think the problem might be on your end.