ENT residency?

[house_]

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Hi, as an international medical graduate, and before trying to start the USMLE journey! I would like to know my chances in ENT (otolaryngology) residency? Is there a good chance or I shouldn't even bother?

 

[Wolf02]

Of the 299 ENT spots this year in the match..... 94.6% of them were filled with US grads.

 

[house_]

Thank you a lot Wolf02

 

[gutonc]

Start on page 187. 16 total independent applicants (IMG, DO, previously graduated US MD students) matched ENT last year. 13 consecutive ranks gave you a 50% chance of matching.

Have a backup. Or 3.

 

[DermatoFIGHT]

Of the 299 ENT spots this year in the match..... 94.6% of them were filled with US grads.

Did DOs count within the US grads or the other 5.4%?

 

[Wolf02]

Did DOs count within the US grads or the other 5.4%?

I think it does. It just says US seniors. Not US allopathic or US osteopathic. I'm not sure though. Page 26 of 2015 main match statistics

 

[drkristy85]

When they say "US Grads" or "US Seniors" this strictly means Allopathic MD grads only. It does NOT include DO grads. So the 5.4% includes American DO grads, US-citizen IMG's, FMG's non-US citizen, and prior US grads (prior years)

 

[DermatoFIGHT]

No. DOs count in the independent applicants category.

US seniors refers only to US MD.

So I really wonder how many of the IMG are Canadian as I have seen Canadians in US residencies. Best thing to to ask OP is "how much of an IMG are you technically"?

 

[Wolf02]

Nrmp also has it broken down by state, if you were looking location based ENT. It's their state specific statistics, which breaks down all the different types...US - DO - USIMG - IMG etc

 

[NRAI2001]

Independent grads also include US MD grads that are applying after finishing med school.. Wether that be:

A) reapplicants after not matching
B) first time applicants that might have taken time to do research or something else
C) completed a different residency and are now applying to ENT.

Even with 250s and a few years of research it would be difficult to even match at a lower tiered ENT program..

 

[gutonc]

You're all getting way too deep in the weeds in this one. There were a grand total of 16 people last year who were not M4s from US MD schools that matched in ENT.

I don't know the OP, or his/her stats. But the OP is not matching in ENT. I have a $100 bill for him/her if s/he does.

 

[Dral]

You posted in the Derm forum asking the same question. Are you interested in Ophtho and RadOnc as well?

PM&R seems to be up and coming. Might want to check that one out too while you're shopping around.

 

[house_]

You posted in the Derm forum asking the same question. Are you interested in Ophtho and RadOnc as well?

PM&R seems to be up and coming. Might want to check that one out too while you're shopping around.

ENT and dermatology are the only two specialties I wanna work in, so this is why I'm asking in both sections, I live outside the US so I need advices and info as much as possible, the usmle system is very different from the way medical schools outside US teach. No matte how good you are you will have a tough time preparing and you know it's not easy, so I needed to know my chances before putting all this effort!

 

[house_]

You're all getting way too deep in the weeds in this one. There were a grand total of 16 people last year who were not M4s from US MD schools that matched in ENT.

I don't know the OP, or his/her stats. But the OP is not matching in ENT. I have a $100 bill for him/her if s/he does.

You just made a point! So there is no chance? Because there's always Europe, especially Germany filled with spots in ENT and other competitive specialties. I was asking because USA is my No.1 choice but if chances are near to zero point something % then I'll see a different path to choose. Thank you anyways

 

[Pinkertinkle]

If you are some sort of extraordinary person with unique accomplishments you have a small chance. Otherwise in the competitive fields of derm and ENT even with great test scores there are plenty of US candidates who the programs will pick over you.

 

[doc05]

your chances are very very slim. more concerning is your combined in two very different fields - derm and ENT. care to explain?

 

[operaman]

I met some current IMG residents on the interview trail this year. A couple of them spent some time here doing research or as a general surgery resident before securing an ENT PGY1 or PGY2 spot; not sure about the others. It's a terribly difficult match, even for AMGs -- just look at the stats for unmatched applicants!

There's plenty of good advice here in the ENT sub-forum and on other sites about what it takes to match; you may want to do some research and contact some current IMG residents and see what additional steps they had to do in order to secure a position. Many will likely be too busy to help, but you may catch a couple of them during a research rotation when they have a little more time.

I think the best advice would be this: if you can picture yourself doing anything else, do that. There's a strong possibility you could invest years of your time and never actually secure a position in these ultra-competitive fields.

Good luck!

 

[Gastrapathy]

So you're saying there's a chance.

 

[Wolf02]

The biggest population within this group is FMGs (~7400), followed by IMGs (~5000), followed by DOs (~3000), followed by former US grads (~1500).

What line are you using to differentiate fmg from img? Are you using img as usfmg?
Thanks!

 

[rokshana]

ENT and dermatology are the only two specialties I wanna work in, so this is why I'm asking in both sections, I live outside the US so I need advices and info as much as possible, the usmle system is very different from the way medical schools outside US teach. No matte how good you are you will have a tough time preparing and you know it's not easy, so I needed to know my chances before putting all this effort!

you really want to practice in ENT or Derm? stay in your own country where you can already practice or have the best chance to practice...your shot in the US is close to nil...people say it and the numbers support it...what more do you want?

 

[gutonc]

you really want to practice in ENT or Derm? stay in your own country where you can already practice or have the best chance to practice...your shot in the US is close to nil...people say it and the numbers support it...what more do you want?

Agree with @rokshana (and everybody else here). If it's ENT, Derm or nothing, then stay home. Because if you come to the US, you will get "nothing".

 

[DermatoFIGHT]

you really want to practice in ENT or Derm? stay in your own country where you can already practice or have the best chance to practice...your shot in the US is close to nil...people say it and the numbers support it...what more do you want?

Derm (esp Univ of Miami) has lots of foreign graduates in their derm residencies. It seems derm is more open to taking foreign applicants than ENT.

 

[house_]

Derm (esp Univ of Miami) has lots of foreign graduates in their derm residencies. It seems derm is more open to taking foreign applicants than ENT.

FINALLY an optimistic answer, THANK YOU ALOT MAN , at least I'll have a motivation to study usmle now, thank you a lot

 

[IJL]

FINALLY an optimistic answer, THANK YOU ALOT MAN , at least I'll have a motivation to study usmle now, thank you a lot

No offense, but you seem a little delusional. And this post smells of troll.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Derm (esp Univ of Miami) has lots of foreign graduates in their derm residencies. It seems derm is more open to taking foreign applicants than ENT.

It appears (at least at U of Miami) that the road to a Derm residency there as a foreign grad is to graduate a long time ago and then toil in one of their research labs for several years before being offered a spot. Hardly encouraging but hey, as long as the OP recognizes that's what the cost of admission is, fair enough.

 

[DermatoFIGHT]

It appears (at least at U of Miami) that the road to a Derm residency there as a foreign grad is to graduate a long time ago and then toil in one of their research labs for several years before being offered a spot. Hardly encouraging but hey, as long as the OP recognizes that's what the cost of admission is, fair enough.

Also, Duke Otolaryngology has a current resident that earned a MBBS from England where he is from. University of Miami has lots of foreign MD as fellows. However, not sure about the residency itself there.

 

[DermatoFIGHT]

FINALLY an optimistic answer, THANK YOU ALOT MAN , at least I'll have a motivation to study usmle now, thank you a lot

I am not the final say so please do not become hopelessly optimistic from my post. I cannot guarantee accuracy except things I have seen.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Also, Duke Otolaryngology has a current resident that earned a MBBS from England where he is from. University of Miami has lots of foreign MD as fellows. However, not sure about the residency itself there.

The U of M has 3 (IIRC) FMG derm residents currently but as I noted above all of them appear to have spent years doing research on there before getting a spot.

I think the point is not that foreign grads don't get competitive residencies; there are plenty of exceptions. However these are exceptions not the rule. Most would be well advised that it often takes many years of research or other ways of gaining connections.

 

[Dral]

It appears (at least at U of Miami) that the road to a Derm residency there as a foreign grad is to graduate a long time ago and then toil in one of their research labs for several years before being offered a spot. Hardly encouraging but hey, as long as the OP recognizes that's what the cost of admission is, fair enough.

This is becoming the way of derm. It's scary how we are teetering on a research year being almost compulsory at this point. There are other competitive programs besides Miami that are similar in that foreign medical graduates are residents, but only after doing their 'indentured servitude' so to speak.

I can't say I'm totally against it. It advances the field by getting research done (most often good solid clinic research), and who knows, maybe it sparks the interest of a few of the individuals to continue on in that research.

And OP, please don't get it in your head that if you get a research spot somewhere that you will get an automatic ticket to residency. That is NOT the case. There are other things often going on that help these individuals get spots. Nobody here really wants to tell you not to try. We can't...we don't know your total situation. However, you have to consider your individual situation. It's a lot of time and money to invest in something that is not a sure, definite, or even probable thing.

And definitely duly noted that FMG -> USMLEs -> Apply to US Derm progams -> Too bad, so sad, not likely to get a spot.