Entitlement and the Olympiad of Oppression

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baconshrimps

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I've worked very hard over the past 4 or 5 years as a non-traditional applicant, to secure an MD acceptance. I have been told by many classmates, peers, co-workers, and colleagues, that my unrelenting zeal and determination place me in a minority of individuals, and that I would likely succeed in any field of my choice if I applied the same talents, skills, and dedication to achieving my goals as a non-traditional pre-med student. I have placed my securing a future in medicine, above all other facets of my life - including friends and family, my passions, my hobbies, and at times even my health and well-being. I've delayed a tremendous amount of gratification, with the intent of enjoying an unprecendented level of happiness and fulfillment many years down the road. Despite the pride I take in my accomplishments and the sacrifices I've made along the way, my success was never a sure thing, and by all accounts I was an underdog in this application cycle. I am so grateful for the opportunity to attend medical school, as compared to say, complacent, which is the case for many medical school applicants who believe they deserve the opportunity to attend medical school instead of remaining in their job as a research technician or a CNA, or who believe they are entitled to an education from an MD school and not a DO school, or who feel entitled to an acceptance at their unequivocal top choice or USNWR top 25 medical school instead of the single acceptance they received from a middle or low tier MD program.

I have known applicants with significantly better grades and MCAT score than mine, who have fared worse than I in the medical school application process - they have either gone off to the carribean or pursued a different career path after a sleuth of rejections in their first application cycle. I have known candidates who I seemed less qualified than I, yet they received scholarships to top MD programs. I've seen the ORM vs URM debacle hashed out more times than there are hairs on my head.

As much as I have sacrificed, I am sure there are others who have given up more to achieve the same goal.
As much effort as I have put into building a strong application, I am sure there are others who have had to work twice or three times as hard or as long to achieve the same level of candidacy as myself in the medical school admissions game. Likewise, I am certain there are others who have had to sacrifice less, or had to put in less effort than myself. I have worked low paying and unsatisying jobs to stay afloat financially, as well as so that I may have something admirable on my application to medical school, such as a research position in an academic lab vs. an industry position, or tutoring inner city children in biology and math on the weekends instead of going out with friends or trying to find wifey. I am sure there are applicants out there who have taken more gratification than these kinds of pursuits or who have genuinely enjoyed the time they spent doing these kinds of things, which many (myself included) regard as a mere hoop through which you must jump to get accepted to medical school. It is my understanding, that many medical schools will tout "we want to see you pursuing jobs, activities, and passions that are meaningful to you, and that you enjoy" yet there seems to be a precedent of things an applicant must have on their application despite what is officially stated. Sure, there will be students in your medical school class with unique experiences, but without fail, every one of your classmates will have some kind of research, clinical volunteering, physician shadowing, medical mission trip, or community service experience. Again, some may have genuinely enjoyed doing those activities, but most on SDN would probably regard these as hoops through which an applicant must jump in order to get more than a glance over of their application from the ADCOMS. I like to call these things "the cost of admission" - they are things you probably need to do, whether you like them or not, in order to realistically be considered for medical school admission. This of course is in addition to demonstrating a capacity for excellence in your studies, be it engineering or anthropology, biochemistry or linguistics, sociology or physics, etc.

Of the tens of thousands of medical school applicants in any given cycle, most will have done these things - the research, the participation in a school club, the clinical volunteering, the community service projects. Some may have made a greater investment of their time into these things than others, either against their personal enthusiasm for something else or because they wanted to, or because these long-term commitments with vast hours tend to make a splash for the application. There could be any number of motivations for what EC's you choose to pursue or not to pursue, and those motivations are your business, not mine, nor anyone elses.

I am writing this post to caution SDNers, to be more careful in how and upon whom they pass judgement. Like me, you cannot know if the personal sacrifices I have made are greater or lesser than those which you have done. You cannot know what adversity I have faced, as I cannot truly know the challenges you have had to overcome, either in number or in magnitude.

You haven't attended medical school. You haven't graduated medical school yet, nor are you a physician. Chances are you haven't worked or been part of an administrative group in a medical school. With these things in mind, you cannot say that the sacrifices you have made are more noble than those of another candidates anonymously posting on SDN, nor can you assert that the research you are involved in is of a greater impact than someone elses, nor can you boast that you make a greater difference in your community than someone else does. A small project in one field may offer more impact for that field of study than a long term project offers to another field, and vice versa. A small, local project in someones community may afford more value and benefit for it's members than a large but temporary project you have contributed to in your community. Likewise, you shouldn't assert that your motivations for a career in medicine are grander, more noble, deeper or more pure than someone elses. There are people who pursue medicine for the prestige, the money, the high social status. There are people who pursue medicine because of an interest in the scientific bases of human medicine. There are people who pursue medicine because of a need in their community which they feel up to task in meeting, or who feel there is some social injustice that they would like to work towards rectificying as a physician. There are people who were motivated by the loss of a parent or friend, or their own personal struggle with an illness, or perhaps that of a collegue. There will be police officers who have lost partners, teachers who have lost students, veterans who have lost someone from their platoon or possibly even a limb. There will be career changers who seek greater fulfillment than their current occupation affords them. Some motivations may resonate with greater appeal than others, but if an individuals motivation serves as a strong enough driving force that they can become a competent physician, and appropriately fulfill the physicians role, then their motivation should be of no concern to you. There will be physicians who are motivated primarily by money, and they may be incredibly talented or frightentingly incompetent. Likewise, someone may have been motivated to pursue a career in medicine because of their lifelong struggle with a chronic inflammatory illness or the permanent disabilities of someone close to them - like the physician motivated by money, this person may one say see much acclaim for their abilties of a physician or become the laughing stock of their department for their ineptitudes in clinical practice. In either case, there is no way to know for sure until that person gets there.


The next time you are thinking about posting how unfair the medical school application process is because you are ORM, save it. The next time you think it might be a good idea to write a disparaging thread about "the URM advantage" save it. The next time you think it's wise to say "my research is REAL" spend less time on SDN and go do another awesome experiment. The next time you want to boast about the sacrifices you have made, ask yourself if you (not your parents, YOU) have immigrated to the United States in search of a better life and opportunity. Was the answer no? Stop complaining - because like everyone else, whether you are a 2nd generation american or a descendant of the mayflower, chances are there is someone who has sacrificed much more and someone who has sacrificed much less than you to assemble a strong application. As special as you like to think you are, you fall in the middle, with the rest of us.

It's time that the olympiad of oppression ended.

If you've been accepted to medical school this year, congratulations. Wherever you have been accepted, if you hold a US MD or US DO acceptance, regardless of where the school may have fallen on your list of choices, be grateful you have the chance to remain stateside and pursue a career that so so few could ever dream of having the capacity and opportunity to. If you are being accepted to your last choice school off a waitlist late in the season, you still get to become a doctor. If you've just barely gotten in by the skin of your teeth or if you've been accepted on October 15th, don't hold your head high and pretend like you are gods gift to medicine and that you deserved that opportunity - chances are luck didn't play an insignificant role in the events which led to your acceptance.

If you haven't been accepted this year, either as a first time applicant, non-traditional applicant, career changer, or as a re-applicant, keep fighting the good fight. Persistence is something that ultimately pays off. If you disagree with that sentiment, then it is possible you do not want to pursue a career in medicine as badly as you had let yourself believe, but there are other ways in which you can use similar talents to contribute to the greater good of healthcare. Keep that head up, stay strong, stay motivated by whatever means is best for you, and remember that you are in full control of your lifes pursuits.


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My name is @baconshrimps and I approve this message.
 
Based on the light skimming I just gave this, I probably agree with you but...


tldr.gif
 
You don't have to read the post if you don't want to, but you also don't have to post mildly entertaining but non-constructive posts either ;-)
 
Based on the light skimming I just gave this, I probably agree with you but...


tldr.gif
I speed read anyway, so...
Anyway, before this goes to a URM's and life is not fair whine, I say, let the games begin.
 
This is an excellent post, and the sense of entitlement spreads much wider than the pre-med world. There’s something I wish I had learned sooner in life: the world owes you nothing. A lot of the millennial generation, however, is raised to believe “you can be anything you want” and most never hear the “as long as you work your ass off for it” condition. I’m part of that generation, and still find myself falling into that type of thinking from time to time.

I’ve seen so many first-hand examples of this as a military officer (do you know how difficult it is to discharge someone from today’s military?), but one of the best examples of this attitude I can remember occurred while I was standing in line at an electronics store. I overheard a woman complaining that her welfare check was not enough to support her family AND upgrade herself and her husband to the newest iPhone with full data plans. Completely absurd...
 
Although no one may read this thread in a week, I think it needs to be permanently added to the top of the thread page. I'll admit I came into the application cycle with the entitled attitude. I had just scored great on my MCAT and felt good about my activities. I knew only a couple people at my school that I considered "better applicants" than me, but their accomplishments were so amazing that I thought there were only a few people in the nation that could match them. Boy was I wrong...

Almost everyone I have met over the last year has blown my mind with their experiences. I consider myself a decent interviewer, but looking at the "competition," I've had to blow my interviews out of the water to get acceptances. I was lucky my numbers gave me as many chances as I did to really connect with interviewers. I have started thinking about what this cycle would have been like if they are lower. So any future applicants that read this, take it from me: just because you scored in the top 1% on the MCAT doesn't mean you are destined for any school in particular. Yes, it may help, but I even got waitlisted by my "sure shot" state school. Like OP said, you are not entitled to anything. Work your butt off to get it and realize, people will always be better than you even if stats say otherwise
 
tl;dr lots of words, but not much coherent thought

I don't think you understand what tl;dr means.😵

But anyway, I thought it was rather verbose but still coherent, could have said in fewer paragraphs. Oh, I agree and this seems like a direct reaction ot @MDforMee .
 
I don't think you understand what tl;dr means.😵

But anyway, I thought it was rather verbose but still coherent, could have said in fewer paragraphs. Oh, I agree and this seems like a direct reaction ot @MDforMee .

I will be forthright in saying that the post you are referring to was in fact a proverbial straw breaking the camel's back, but this has been brewing for a while. Needed to get it out. Glad to see there are some people in agreement with me on this.
 
Disagree with "overentitlement." If done right, premed can become a complete waste of a person's life for 4+ years if things don't work out. Anger, depression, and bitterness are to be expected. Problem solved if people could do a rational cost-benefit of the sacrifice involved, but I really don't see how any rational or reasonable person would choose to do this when the cost is absurdly onerous and worsening with each subsequent year. Sometimes, I wonder whether we're applying to medical school or to some show-pony contest.

Agree that many angry posters lack self-control posting on here. They need to take their bitterness somewhere else, or find other ways to constructively channel their anger.
 
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Is the OP really in France? Why not try to enter med school there where it's easier to get in than the US and much cheaper?

It is possible, that since my medical school acceptance, that I've been chilling in Paris, since I won't have the opportunity to do so again for a very long time ;-)
 
This is an excellent post, and the sense of entitlement spreads much wider than the pre-med world. There’s something I wish I had learned sooner in life: the world owes you nothing. A lot of the millennial generation, however, is raised to believe “you can be anything you want” and most never hear the “as long as you work your ass off for it” condition. I’m part of that generation, and still find myself falling into that type of thinking from time to time.

I’ve seen so many first-hand examples of this as a military officer (do you know how difficult it is to discharge someone from today’s military?), but one of the best examples of this attitude I can remember occurred while I was standing in line at an electronics store. I overheard a woman complaining that her welfare check was not enough to support her family AND upgrade herself and her husband to the newest iPhone with full data plans. Completely absurd...

Um, there are a lot of things you "can work your ass off for" and still not be able to achieve. I know it's non-PC and (anti-premed SDN) to say this, but hard work by itself is not always enough. However, with the explosion in new DO schools and MD schools in bumblef*** places, anyone with a pulse, and good credit rating, will be able to get into medical school.
 
Um, there are a lot of things you "can work your ass off for" and still not be able to achieve. I know it's non-PC and (anti-premed SDN) to say this, but hard work by itself is not always enough. However, with the explosion in new DO schools and MD schools in bumblef*** places, anyone with a pulse, and good credit rating, will be able to get into medical school.
Haha, I never meant to imply that working hard will net you an MD slot. What I am saying is that you are not entitled to a shot at MD without hard work. I feel there are a lot of parents who raise their kids saying "Of course you can be an astronaut, Jimmy!”, yet fail to tell him about the 4 years he’ll spend in officer training where he’ll have to rank at the top of his class to become an aviator, then get tracked for jet aircraft, then perform well enough to be trusted as a test pilot, then get screened for NASA, then undergo tremendous physical tests that are meant to stress his body to the limits, and THEN, maybe, he can be an astronaut.

My point is, people often benefit when you strip away the rainbows and sunshine to show them how the world really works.
 
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Solid post @baconshrimps, but you only needed 8 words, really 😉

Yeah, I'm pretty verbose. Granted, I don't post very long OP's typically, so I'm going to forgive myself for not being exacting. I wrote and got what I wanted off my chest. Appreciate the props, haha.
 
Um, there are a lot of things you "can work your ass off for" and still not be able to achieve. I know it's non-PC and (anti-premed SDN) to say this, but hard work by itself is not always enough. However, with the explosion in new DO schools and MD schools in bumblef*** places, anyone with a pulse, and good credit rating, will be able to get into medical school.
Agreed. If medical school admissions is supposed to indentify the applicants who will become the best physicians by all metrics (not just numbers, but also possessing traits like sympathy, humanity, morality, personability, good commincation skills, and experience in different cultures to name a few) then it would seem fitting that such applicants who excel in all/most such metrics should be qualified for medical school. But we all know that not all of these applicants are accepted (and I suspect the motivation of that is simply the number of seats available).

Case in point:
Of all 2009-2011 applicants, someone with a <2.20GPA and a 15-17 MCAT score was accepted to a US allopathic medical school. Now this is merely one person out of 57,277 accepted students; and I nor anyone else besides that person and the admissions committee which accepted him/her is in any position to say whether they were "good doctor material." But why should anyone try in their classes and compete to build a "strong application" if not for the expectation that better (holistic) metrics drive better chances of acceptance?

I will make a bold assumption that OP would not have made the sacrifices s/he made if it had not led to an acceptance. That such sacrifices earned an acceptance. Personally, I care only about strengthening my own application; but I would hope the "cost of admission" be paid by those applicants who were accepted. It is in this regard, and this regard only, that I believe some deserve a right over others.

Similarly stated by @Covert :
What I am saying is that you are not entitled to a shot at MD without hard work. I feel there are a lot of parents who raise their kids saying "Of course you can be an astronaut, Jimmy!”, yet fail to tell him about the 4 years he’ll spend in officer training where he’ll have to rank at the top of his class to become an aviator, then get tracked for jet aircraft, then perform well enough to be trusted as a test pilot, then get screened for NASA, then undergo tremendous physical tests that are meant to stress his body to the limits, and THEN, maybe, he can be an astronaut.

EDIT: Case source: https://www.aamc.org/...pdf
 
Agreed. If medical school admissions is supposed to indentify the applicants who will become the best physicians by all metrics (not just numbers, but also possessing traits like sympathy, humanity, morality, personability, good commincation skills, and experience in different cultures to name a few) then it would seem fitting that such applicants who excel in all/most such metrics should be qualified for medical school. But we all know that not all of these applicants are accepted (and I suspect the motivation of that is simply the number of seats available).

Case in point:
Of all 2009-2011 applicants, someone with a <2.20GPA and a 15-17 MCAT score was accepted to a US allopathic medical school. Now this is merely one person out of 57,277 accepted students; and I nor anyone else besides that person and the admissions committee which accepted him/her is in any position to say whether they were "good doctor material." But why should anyone try in their classes and compete to build a "strong application" if not for the expectation that better (holistic) metrics drive better chances of acceptance?

I will make a bold assumption that OP would not have made the sacrifices s/he made if it had not led to an acceptance. That such sacrifices earned an acceptance. Personally, I care only about strengthening my own application; but I would hope the "cost of admission" be paid by those applicants who were accepted. It is in this regard, and this regard only, that I believe some deserve a right over others.

Similarly stated by @Covert :


EDIT: Case source: https://www.aamc.org/...pdf


Hey man, I'm not on trial here. Like I said, I worked very hard over the course of 4 or 5 years or so building the strongest possible application. Even still, I went into the medical school application process knowing full well that I was fighting an uphill battle, and that I wasn't entitled/deserving of anything at the onset. I am very happy that collectively my efforts were recognized by a number of schools, and that their admissions committees felt I had earned the opportunity to attend medical school, but that doesn't mean after making all of the sacrifices I made that I felt entitled to such a privilege. Also, there was no way for me to 'predict' if my efforts would land me an acceptance or not. I just did as much as I could, to the very best of my ability, spreading myself thin, making lots of personal sacrifices and delaying gratification along the way, hoping it would land me an acceptance. Not expecting, but hoping and remaining faithful in myself.
 
Stupid post. You don't know our lives either. That means you have no idea what we should and shouldn't be "just" grateful for. Your post perpetuates the notion that somehow those who have "worked the hardest" are the ones who get in--we just may not see it. I call bull****, and furthermore, a stupid ****ing post.

Everyday, I am grateful for my acceptance. I cannot stop thinking about medical school. I cannot stop reading about medicine. There is no feeling in me that, because I will probably not get into a top choice, that therefore I am any less enthusiastic about medicine or the future.

But the difficulty of getting just this one acceptance, and I am just one acceptance away from having to re-apply after applying to over 30 schools. This shows me that the system is broken--period. I'm ****ing awesome (for example, my VR score is one point higher than yours *). And yes: I am convinced for reasons that I cannot get into, that I have indeed struggled much, much more than most URM's who are getting acceptances.

But I complain because the process continues to make no sense to me. If you could explain the system to me in a way that really makes sense, I would hold my peace forever. If you could explain psychopaths getting into Harvard, why bully attendings are in the same hospitals where empathy is being preached as a major criterion for admissions, and why so much else of this feels like a superficial rat race, I would be quiet. True, applicants fall through the cracks. Admissions committees are not perfect. But so much of this process is ****ing ridiculous. Even the attendings that we talk to think so. My interviewer at a top 5 school, a clinician and researcher with a really high-level appointment, told me that they thought so.

There is something seriously wrong with this madness.

So whatcha gonna do about it? I am going to run with my acceptance. And when I get to my school, I am going to give everything to my classes and my classmates. I'm going to make as many friends as I can and contribute things to my class that nobody else can except me. For those that want them, I am going to form powerful lifelong professional relationships. And I'm going to remind those on the admissions committee why they accepted me.

I ain't gonna let a stupid system stop me from becoming the awesome doctor that I dream of being.

But I'm always going to remember the admissions process. And if/when it's my turn to be adcom, and if/when it's my turn to deal with admissions policies, if my mind hasn't been changed, if I still don't see the logic in my situation during this cycle as I gain more experiences as I work my way up to a place of power, I'm going to do my part to improve the parts of the admissions process that I think are bad.

If we just mildly accept everything that seems wrong to us, where does that get us as physicians? What kind of progress can there be for medicine? What would happen if we just "accepted" quackery 200 years ago--and never changed it? From your point of view: what would happen today if admissions committees never saw a serious problem with an almost completely white medical school class, because they were just "grateful" with what they had?

Good medicine requires that we keep this critical way of thinking. This doesn't mean being overcome with bitterness. It means being aware of your concerns, not letting them drop, and finding the right way and time to voice them. This is the proper way to serve the profession and to be a physician.

I agree about keeping a positive attitude. But that doesn't mean to forget the struggles and obstacles--and the lessons that we learned from them.




* therefore: SUCK it
 
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Stupid post. You don't know our lives either. That means you have no idea what we should and shouldn't be "just" grateful for. Your post perpetuates the notion that somehow those who have "worked the hardest" are the ones who get in--we just may not see it. I call bullcrap, and furthermore, a stupid ******* post.

Everyday, I am grateful for my acceptance. I cannot stop thinking about medical school. I cannot stop reading about medicine. There is no feeling in me that, because I will probably not get into a top choice, that therefore I am any less enthusiastic about medicine or the future.

But the difficulty of getting just this one acceptance, and I am just one acceptance away from having to re-apply after applying to over 30 schools. This shows me that the system is broken--period. I'm ******* awesome (for example, my VR score is one point higher than yours *). And yes: I am convinced for reasons that I cannot get into, that I have indeed struggled much, much more than most URM's who are getting acceptances.

But I complain because the process continues to make no sense to me. If you could explain the system to me in a way that really makes sense, I would hold my peace forever. If you could explain psychopaths getting into Harvard, why bully attendings are in the same hospitals where empathy is being preached as a major criterion for admissions, and why so much else of this feels like a superficial rat race, I would be quiet. True, applicants fall through the cracks. Admissions committees are not perfect. But so much of this process is ******* ridiculous. Even the attendings that we talk to think so. My interviewer at a top 5 school, a clinician and researcher with a really high-level appointment, told me that they thought so.

There is something seriously wrong with this madness.

So whatcha gonna do about it? I am going to run with my acceptance. And when I get to my school, I am going to give everything to my classes and my classmates. I'm going to make as many friends as I can and contribute things to my class that nobody else can except me. For those that want them, I am going to form powerful lifelong professional relationships. And I'm going to remind those on the admissions committee why they accepted me.

I ain't gonna let a stupid system stop me from becoming the awesome doctor that I dream of being.

But I'm always going to remember the admissions process. And if/when it's my turn to be adcom, and if/when it's my turn to deal with admissions policies, if my mind hasn't been changed, if I still don't see the logic in my situation during this cycle as I gain more experiences as I work my way up to a place of power, I'm going to do my part to improve the parts of the admissions process that I think are bad.

If we just mildly accept everything that seems wrong to us, where does that get us as physicians? What kind of progress can there be for medicine? What would happen if we just "accepted" quackery 200 years ago--and never changed it? From your point of view: what would happen today if admissions committees never saw a serious problem with an almost completely white medical school class, because they were just "grateful" with what they had?

Good medicine requires that we keep this critical way of thinking. This doesn't mean being overcome with bitterness. It means being aware of your concerns, not letting them drop, and finding the right way and time to voice them. This is the proper way to serve the profession and to be a physician.

I agree about keeping a positive attitude. But that doesn't mean to forget the struggles and obstacles--and the lessons that we learned from them.




* therefore: SUCK it

Friends, what we have here is a perfect example of people reading in between the lines, what they want to read in between the lines.
Frankly, my post is very transparent and straight forward. You're misconstruing every point I have made, and further you are reacting to it in a very negative way. If you in fact are about to start medical school, maybe its time to think about growing up ;-)
Lets try and keep things civil.
P.S., as I said in my original post, you're not special and noone cares.
 
Solid post @baconshrimps, but you only needed 8 words, really 😉
Four words, maybe?
"Nobody owes you anything." Words to live by.

But @baconshrimps, let's talk about this term entitlement that gets used a lot. While I agree excessive griping and whining is uncalled for, I think one point of the entire premed forum is just to vent. After being hyper-competitive for many years, it is only natural to set high expectations for oneself. And it also natural to fall short of them. When folks talk about their frustrations and disappointments, here or in real life, it comes across as griping and people call it "entitlement." Technically yes it's true, you're not special and were never as smart/talented/motivated as you thought you were. It's just hard to be told that by the faceless admissions committee that allegedly did a fair assessment of your candidacy for medical school. Most people on sdn would just say "Well, suck it up!" but I think a bit of empathy would be more helpful. The feelings of frustration are just a phase, everyone who's been dealt a rejection takes some time to deal with it, and then moves on.

Or maybe we just need a dedicated venting thread.
 
Again, focusing on merely one facet of the multiple points I made in my original post. Seriously go back and read it word for word before you start calling strawman.
 
I'd like to just point out that if you are an American, you are by definition "entitled." We live in a first world country where correctly paved roads, non-life-threatening public schools (except for recent shootings wtf??), and a democratic government are expected. We have an FDA, medicare, medicaid, gov't subsidized programs literally everywhere. Yes, other countries also do have these things, but in the context of the world, they are definitely luxuries. You expect not to be shot at every time you walk your door, and not to be mugged around every street corner. If you do, you call that place ghetto and get the hell out. So while it's nice to recognize what entitlement is, let's not be so hasty to judge others for being a tiny bit more, when we are all entitled and don't even realize it. You don't call people who expect a fair election, or to be able to call out shady politicians entitled do you? Well lots of people in the world would.
 
I'd like to just point out that if you are an American, you are by definition "entitled." We live in a first world country where correctly paved roads, non-life-threatening public schools (except for recent shootings wtf??), and a democratic government are expected. We have an FDA, medicare, medicaid, gov't subsidized programs literally everywhere. Yes, other countries also do have these things, but in the context of the world, they are definitely luxuries. You expect not to be shot at every time you walk your door, and not to be mugged around every street corner. If you do, you call that place ghetto and get the hell out. So while it's nice to recognize what entitlement is, let's not be so hasty to judge others for being a tiny bit more, when we are all entitled and don't even realize it. You don't call people who expect a fair election, or to be able to call out shady politicians entitled do you? Well lots of people in the world would.

Ah. Lets assume we're all living in the United States and applying to medical school in the United States then.
Okay, so now that playing field has been leveled.
I'm sorry, but I, nor should anyone else, apologize for living in the United States.
Lets keep things in a relevant context.
 
Ah. Lets assume we're all living in the United States and applying to medical school in the United States then.
Okay, so now that playing field has been leveled.
I'm sorry, but I, nor should anyone else, apologize for living in the United States.
Lets keep things in a relevant context.

I get what you're saying, but to accuse people of being entitled when we are blind to the crazy amount of entitlement in ourselves isn't really fair.

And that was a general response to many of the posts on here. The welfare lady story is a good example of entitlement...yet we don't realize that getting welfare to begin with is an entitlement, but we expect it.
 
I think with this process it is very easy to fall into those thoughts. From the moment you start working on your application, it becomes "why do I deserve a spot" and focusing on all of the great things you've done (because they are all really great). You spend time thinking about why you should be picked and what you're going to tell them to convince them to pick you. Then you get in a room with someone and usually it's just a one on one conversation all about you. I think it is quite easy to forget, since you're advocating so much for yourself and the awesome candidate that you are, that other people are there doing the same thing and you generally know nothing (or very very little) about their background.
 
I get what you're saying, but to accuse people of being entitled when we are blind to the crazy amount of entitlement in ourselves isn't really fair.

And that was a general response to many of the posts on here. The welfare lady story is a good example of entitlement...yet we don't realize that getting welfare to begin with is an entitlement, but we expect it.

I'm not sure you know what the word entitlement means. If you have a problem with the services that government provides to CITIZENS, which as citizens living in America we have a right to, well, noone is keeping you here. I have grown accustomed to living in an area where I don't run the risk of being murdered on a daily basis and when there is a pothole in my street there is a number I can call and maybe within a few weeks it gets taken care of. I'm used to these kinds of things, and I am aware of them so I pursue them - that doesn't make me an entitled person, it's just the way things are in the United States. What you are positing, is a very false analogy my friend. I recently qualified for medicaid, so I enrolled. Does that make me an entitled person? You see how your argument is weak? Essentially, citizens have certain inalienable rights. Having a RIGHT to something, doesn't make you an entitled person. However, in the context of medical school admissions, making a claim "I have a right to attend medical school" is very different to "I have a right to walk outside of my home and feel safe."
 
I'm not sure you know what the word entitlement means. If you have a problem with the services that government provides to CITIZENS, which as citizens living in America we have a right to, well, noone is keeping you here. I have grown accustomed to living in an area where I don't run the risk of being murdered on a daily basis and when there is a pothole in my street there is a number I can call and maybe within a few weeks it gets taken care of. I'm used to these kinds of things, and I am aware of them so I pursue them - that doesn't make me an entitled person, it's just the way things are in the United States. What you are positing, is a very false analogy my friend. I recently qualified for medicaid, so I enrolled. Does that make me an entitled person? You see how your argument is weak? Essentially, citizens have certain inalienable rights. Having a RIGHT to something, doesn't make you an entitled person. However, in the context of medical school admissions, making a claim "I have a right to attend medical school" is very different to "I have a right to walk outside of my home and feel safe."

Using this argument, don't citizens also have a right to free speech? Thus, don't they have a right to express their entitlement on a message board on the Internet? Not that I appreciate when that right is utilized, but I see no difference between the two and no distinction that can be made here.

You could take your argument and say if you have a problem with people exercising their right to free speech in America you can leave, too? I just don't understand the distinction you're making.
 
Using this argument, don't citizens also have a right to free speech? Thus, don't they have a right to express their entitlement on a message board on the Internet? Not that I appreciate when that right is utilized, but I see no difference between the two and no distinction that can be made here.

You're absolutely correct.
What I am saying is that it is a ****ty attitude to have, it won't get you anywhere any faster, it's unattractive, it annoys the hell out of a lot of people, it tends to be offensive because people usually take it too far, not to mention it's really not a way to behave on a professional forum, where there are people from ADCOMS looming. Would you not agree?
 
And the issue I have is not with people voicing their entitlement. It's the entitlement itself. Please pay attention, thanks.
 
I'm not sure you know what the word entitlement means. If you have a problem with the services that government provides to CITIZENS, which as citizens living in America we have a right to, well, noone is keeping you here. I have grown accustomed to living in an area where I don't run the risk of being murdered on a daily basis and when there is a pothole in my street there is a number I can call and maybe within a few weeks it gets taken care of. I'm used to these kinds of things, and I am aware of them so I pursue them - that doesn't make me an entitled person, it's just the way things are in the United States. What you are positing, is a very false analogy my friend. I recently qualified for medicaid, so I enrolled. Does that make me an entitled person? You see how your argument is weak? Essentially, citizens have certain inalienable rights. Having a RIGHT to something, doesn't make you an entitled person. However, in the context of medical school admissions, making a claim "I have a right to attend medical school" is very different to "I have a right to walk outside of my home and feel safe."

Maybe I should've phrased my post better. I meant entitlement as in if these rights were taken away, there would be revolts. The government doesn't have a responsibility to give us all that we have; we are given it because the government decided to give it to us. We did not earn our freedom (our ancestors did), so we are benefiting from other people's work. But we call those "rights" because we think they are something we are entitled to (and we are since it's the law). But like I said, the moment those "rights" are taken away, people will revolt (including me and you), because we feel entitled to what we call basic rights. Technically, though, the government isn't required to give us any of the luxuries we consider rights.

Anyway, I don't wish to derail the thread, so if we disagree, let's do so amicably
 
And the issue I have is not with people voicing their entitlement. It's the entitlement itself. Please pay attention, thanks.

[Insert mandatory "That escalated quickly" GIF here]

Lol
 
Maybe I should've phrased my post better. I meant entitlement as in if these rights were taken away, there would be revolts. The government doesn't have a responsibility to give us all that we have; we are given it because the government decided to give it to us. We did not earn our freedom (our ancestors did), so we are benefiting from other people's work. But we call those "rights" because we think they are something we are entitled to (and we are since it's the law). But like I said, the moment those "rights" are taken away, people will revolt (including me and you), because we feel entitled to what we call basic rights. Technically, though, the government isn't required to give us any of the luxuries we consider rights.

Okay, seriously, you're talking $#!T about America. Leave. Not the thread, you may stay here if you like - but leave America, lol.
Have you ever heard of the constitution? THOSE ARE OUR RIGHTS. This country was founded on those rights as basic tenets of living. The fathers of America revolted against the tyrant King George in order to ensure that their children and their childrens children and their childrens childrens children and so on and so forth would enjoy those freedoms. We elect individuals that we trust to maintain those rights for us. The government, in the United States, absolutely does have that responsibility - that is precisely why the American government was established.
 
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