EPPP Clarification

[Cosmo75]

Hello...

I've been gathering information on taking the EPPP during my post-doc. I live in Illinois, where I plan to get licensed. I would prefer to take the test earlier than later. I have a 2 year 50% research post-doc, and would rather not to wait that long.

I've seen threads on SDN and have been told that you can take the EPPP in some states prior to completing post-doctoral hour requirements. Here are the states I've heard that do this:

Michigan
Alabama
Utah
Washington
Georgia

Has anyone actually done this or talked to someone who did this? I saw that you can transfer your EPPP scores on the ASPPB site. Are there any limitations in transfering scores from 1 state to another that you've heard of? Any other tips would be appreciated.

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[Therapist4Chnge]

KS......nice.

I too would like to take it early as I may be applying to 2-year post-docs as well.

 

[docma]

California also allows you to take the EPPP prior to completing your post-doc hours. You need to apply for licensure status with a given state that allows this and become approved to take the exam. (eg demonstrate you have met other qualifications leading up to examinee status) Then you need to receive a score that meets the "cut-off" for the given state. I've heard that Washington allows you to take the exam prior to receiving the degree but am not certain of that. In any case, you need to contact each relevant state board directly since ASPPB website is not always completely accurate. Once you have take the EPPP (which is a national exam) you can send your scores to any state. I believe state licensing boards each set their own standard for what is a sufficient score. (One of these days we will have better mobility provisions in this profession!)

 

[Cosmo75]

Jon, you're probably right on the hours within a year. The research is clinical and therapy will be used for part of the time.

From what I can see, most states require a minimum score of 500. There are some differences by state on the oral exam and separate ethics requirements from what I can tell.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Flutterbyu]

You can add North Carolina also

 

[Tastebuds]

Do you have to be working as a post doc resident to apply for licensure in kansas? Can you complete your internship and then apply for licensure in hopes of completing a post doc later?

thanks

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Do you have to be working as a post doc resident to apply for licensure in kansas? Can you complete your internship and then apply for licensure in hopes of completing a post doc later?

thanks

4,000 post-graduate hours are required for licensure at the doctoral level, typically 2,000 for internship and then 2,000 after that. Those hours cannot be completed in less than 24 months. KS has an MS-level that has lesser requirements though is limited in what you can do; it seems to be a stepping stone for those going for the 4,000 hours.

More information can be found here: http://www.ksbsrb.org/faq_LMLP-LCP.htm

 

[LM02]

I did this, and it worked well. The only downside is the fee for the transfer, and even that wasn't too steep (maybe something like $80 when all was said and done?). ASPPB is pretty quick, and I think my score transfer took 2 weeks at the most to come through.

 

[medium rare]

I did this as well through Georgia with no problems. I took the EPPP right after internship and then just had my score transferred when postdoc hours were completed.

 

[Eruca]

I did this as well through Georgia with no problems. I took the EPPP right after internship and then just had my score transferred when postdoc hours were completed.

You can strike Georgia from the list. They just pulled their early application process a couple weeks ago.

Taking the EPPP is actually a requirement of my clinical program to graduate (quite unusual from what I hear). We always did it through Georgia, and now there's some freaking out over the state pulling this option. Sounds like we may have other options....?

 

[psychmama]

You can strike Georgia from the list. They just pulled their early application process a couple weeks ago.

Taking the EPPP is actually a requirement of my clinical program to graduate (quite unusual from what I hear). We always did it through Georgia, and now there's some freaking out over the state pulling this option. Sounds like we may have other options....?

Hey, I just went to a workshop by the ASBPP last week. Dr. Roberta Nutt told us that they'd prohibited Georgia from allowing the EPPP prior to graduation, although I'm not sure why.

 

[Eruca]

Hey, I just went to a workshop by the ASBPP last week. Dr. Roberta Nutt told us that they'd prohibited Georgia from allowing the EPPP prior to graduation, although I'm not sure why.

hiya mama! Interesting you got wind of that. I just found out this week as it is impacting some of my graduating classmates. I guess our DCT didn't know that Georgia pulled the early app., causing a bit of a dilemma since it's a requirement for us to graduate. Strangely I had just started studying and had been procrastinating sending the application into Georgia. Guess now I'll just wait and see what our program decides to do...

 

[psychmama]

hiya mama! Interesting you got wind of that. I just found out this week as it is impacting some of my graduating classmates. I guess our DCT didn't know that Georgia pulled the early app., causing a bit of a dilemma since it's a requirement for us to graduate. Strangely I had just started studying and had been procrastinating sending the application into Georgia. Guess now I'll just wait and see what our program decides to do...

I think your program is smart to require you all to take it. I imagine there are real advantages to sitting for the test when the info is relatively fresh. Really -- who can remember some of those early foundational classes -- social psych, cognitive/affective psych? Little more than a distant memory for me at this point.

Hope your program is able to work this out.

 

[Ollie123]

I've always wondered this: What defines a "licensure hour"? Its surely not face-to-face because 2000 internship hours would mean 40 hours of actual client contact per week for 50 weeks. Maybe I underestimate internship intensity, but that seems to border on impossible anywhere but a residential facility. With cancellations, I feel like you'd need to schedule at least 50-60 hours a week of appointments to even have a chance to get 40, not counting time for supervision, lectures, report writing, etc.

 

[Eruca]

^ True, psychmama. Though time moves so quickly, and there isn't a lot of incentive to get it done before internship (plus due to rules around the EPPP, you can't really take it prior to your 4th year). And so now I'm faced with tying up my dissertation, terminating all my clients, moving across the country to start internship... and, study for the EPPP? Ugh. No good way, I guess.

 

[psychmama]

^ True, psychmama. Though time moves so quickly, and there isn't a lot of incentive to get it done before internship (plus due to rules around the EPPP, you can't really take it prior to your 4th year). And so now I'm faced with tying up my dissertation, terminating all my clients, moving across the country to start internship... and, study for the EPPP? Ugh. No good way, I guess.

I hear you. I've spent so much time "wrapping things up" lately I feel like I should be working for Hallmark. In the past weeks I've terminated with my group and 6 individual clients, and have 2 more to go before June 1. I also ended two supervisions this week and have another to go. Not to mention that I'm gearing up to do data collection on my dissertation in June/July and have been busy screening participants. Argh! Cannot imagine when I'd also study for the EPPP. When does your internship start? Fortunately mine doesn't begin until September.

 

[Eruca]

Is it just me, or do you feel like no one warned us of this? I'm so right there with you. And the sheer emotional effort of all the terminations is just crazy! (especially if you're dealing with a client who decides to drop a bomb on your next to last session... yes, indeed it's true). My internship starts July 1st (!) The packing starts this weekend and the move is in June. And my HR just went up writing that. Cue mindfulness.

Maybe we should start a new thread? I'll bet we're not alone...

 

[Cosmo75]

I've always wondered this: What defines a "licensure hour"? Its surely not face-to-face because 2000 internship hours would mean 40 hours of actual client contact per week for 50 weeks. Maybe I underestimate internship intensity, but that seems to border on impossible anywhere but a residential facility. With cancellations, I feel like you'd need to schedule at least 50-60 hours a week of appointments to even have a chance to get 40, not counting time for supervision, lectures, report writing, etc.

You're correct that it's near impossible to have 40 hours of actual client contact. I'd say of my 40 hour week, 25-30 is in client contact. I do a lot of groups at my site in addition to having a weekly caseload of about 12. But there are other things required of the internship year like seminars, supervision, etc.

 

[ClinicalPsycPhD]

I'm confused- are there states where you can take the EPPP before you complete internship? I'm starting internship in July and would love to take the test as soon as possible, but I thought the earliest was part way through post doc.

Also, I live in PA and am wondering if anyone knows if you need certain classes to become licensed? All I heard of so far is 1500 hours of internship and 1500 of post doc.

Thanks!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Is it just me, or do you feel like no one warned us of this? I'm so right there with you. And the sheer emotional effort of all the terminations is just crazy! (especially if you're dealing with a client who decides to drop a bomb on your next to last session... yes, indeed it's true). My internship starts July 1st (!) The packing starts this weekend and the move is in June. And my HR just went up writing that. Cue mindfulness.

Maybe we should start a new thread? I'll bet we're not alone...

That would be a great idea.

 

[psychmama]

See my thread - Internship Transition - harder than it looks?

 

[LM02]

Eruca, you should check into Kentucky's options. I believe they have a master's-level type "supervised licensure." I think they call it a "psychological associate." Applying for such, they will give you permission to take the eppp. It's costlier than GA, and a bit more involved a process (eg, letters of recommendation) because you're actually applying for this title in the state of KY. But it's probably a good alternative to GA, given your circumstances.

 

[Eruca]

^ I'm actually going to let my DCT figure out the specifics (since it's their requirement not mine)... but appreciate the info! I'll look into it, and pass it on if it looks like something that might work.

I think the problem with some of the states that allow early application is that they ask you to 'pledge' or sign some sort of affidavit that you are intending to practice in their state. Some of this bureaucracy is fine for an individual's responsibility, but to monitor a whole program of students doing it seems like a recipe for craziness.. and they can't really encourage unethical 'pledging' or whatever. [some of this is 2nd hand from the students going through the problem, so it may be arguable. Feel free to chime in with corrections]

 

[LM02]

I just looked it up - tell your DCT to look into KY's "licensed psychological associate" option. I saw no info re: the type of affidavit you described. I remember this, because it came down to KY v. GA when I was applying to take the test early, and GA won out simply because they were cheaper and didn't require letters of rec. Otherwise, I don't remember much difference.

 

[Eruca]

^ I noticed that KY requires practicum internships or field placements to be documented on your transcripts. I know our graduate school/program does not do this. Maybe if anyone did this through KY, they can comment??

 

[LM02]

Hmm... how are your practica documented if you don't get practicum credits on your transcript? That's a tough one, but maybe KY would accept whatever alternate documentation that your program uses??

 

[Ollie123]

I was wondering that as well. It can't be an absolute rule, otherwise no one outside Kentucky could ever work there. Our school only gives transcript credits for in-house practica (i.e. at our clinic), and I suspect its quite common because it seemed like that's what most of the schools I looked at did. Every place offered or even required outside placements, but it was usually not for credits.

 

[Eruca]

I was wondering that as well. It can't be an absolute rule, otherwise no one outside Kentucky could ever work there. Our school only gives transcript credits for in-house practica (i.e. at our clinic), and I suspect its quite common because it seemed like that's what most of the schools I looked at did. Every place offered or even required outside placements, but it was usually not for credits.

Yeah Ollie, that's the same with my program. You get like 3 practica credits, but that says nothing about how many clients you saw or for how many hours of face-to-face time you did... and most importantly it doesn't count outside placements.

I think if you take the EPPP in another state, and/or have the license transferred, you may not have to do the whole transcripts part (so other folks could ostensibly get licensed in KY). Or perhaps you're right, and it isn't absolute. Although the application does a big 'ol bolded underlined "MUST" by that part. ? But, it doesn't do much to the solve the current situation for my program. It's not at all up to me to figure out what our program needs to do now that our GA loophole is gone.. but figured I'd at least gather more info in case I have to make some decisions...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Yeah Ollie, that's the same with my program. You get like 3 practica credits, but that says nothing about how many clients you saw or for how many hours of face-to-face time you did... and most importantly it doesn't count outside placements.

My program tracks hours, though only from formal placements for credit. The supervisor signs off on the the F2F, supervision, and support hours, and they get filed. When internship application time rolls around it make it easier because everything is documented already, though demographic information isn't required. The on-site clinics have spreadsheets that allow for tracking (some off-site places also require them), though not everyone uses them.

 

[positivepsych]

Bumping this thread for updates.

Is one allowed to sit for the EPPP in CA or IL immediately after internship?
Out of the states that allow it as of 6/2011, which state do you recommend has having the easiest process?

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

I think you can get licensed as a "Masters Level Psychologist" through KS. If the sole purpose is to take the EPPP then I believe you can submit the required application, get permission to test, and take the EPPP before completing internship (see http://www.ksbsrb.org/forms.htm). Then you've got the test out of the way and only need to complete postdoc reqs (although, in some states you don't even have to do that so I guess you could get licensed as soon as you're done with internship). However, I've heard that some states won't allow you to use an EPPP score that was obtained before you completed your degree. I'm not sure how accurate that is. It's probably best to check with the licensing board where you want to practice before going too far.

 

[BellaPsyD]

Bumping this thread for updates.

Is one allowed to sit for the EPPP in CA or IL immediately after internship?
Out of the states that allow it as of 6/2011, which state do you recommend has having the easiest process?

yes for CA as that is what I did this thursday! not done with postdoc hours yet...

 

[psychmama]

Whatever you do stay out of NJ. It has the worst... licensure... process... EVER.

 

[ForensicNeuro]

Hey psychmama, I would love for you to comment on the NJ licensure process. I'm in a neighboring state...Most of our grads get licensed there and complain about it! I am definitely looking to get licensed there as well. From reviewing the requirements, it does have some additional things that other states don't...but I'm still not getting what is "such a nightmare" as I've heard from numerous ppl. Thanx.

 

[Shatani]

its insanity! you have to do the eppp and you have to go through an oral examination in addition, which i'm told is horrifying! having already gone through orals as part of my program, i wouldnt put myself through that again...i think there is more to it, but i stopped listening after oral exam. lol (i'm in PA and considered getting licensed in NJ as well.)

 

[psychmama]

Hey psychmama, I would love for you to comment on the NJ licensure process. I'm in a neighboring state...Most of our grads get licensed there and complain about it! I am definitely looking to get licensed there as well. From reviewing the requirements, it does have some additional things that other states don't...but I'm still not getting what is "such a nightmare" as I've heard from numerous ppl. Thanx.

In NJ it's just about impossible to obtain licensure before 2 yrs post-grad. This is in part because of a high number of supervised hours (1850)postdoc and partly because there's an oral exam (most states don't have this). What's worse is that NJ will not allow you to take the EPPP until all of the 1850 supervised postdoctoral hours are completed, whereas many other states let you take the test any time after getting the doctorate. Oh -- and NJ also won't let you begin counting the postdoc hours on the day you graduate -- you must wait until the licensing board issues a permit. Sometimes this can take a while. It took me 6 weeks from the time I applied for the permit to actually have it in hand. Similarly, you can't take the state oral exam until you've taken and passed the EPPP.

Bottom line here: most of the psychologists I know in NJ got licensed elsewhere first and were practicing for several years before they had their license in NJ.

 

[ClinApp]

Is New York similarly difficult? What other states might people get licensed in first, and do they then have to work in those other states for years even if they want to be in NJ eventually?

 

[ForensicNeuro]

Wow that really is a nightmare. That info is definitely not clearly specified on the licensure website. I was told to get my other two licenses first...but I was wondering about that too because from the website it mentioned the NJ did not have reciprocity. How does getting you license in another state make it easier? Also, if you complete say a post-doc in NYC with 1750 hours and get a license there...then apply for licensure in NJ, would they except the post-doc because you already have a license in NY or reject it because it's 100 hours short? Sorry, for all these questions, but this licensure process is a trainwreck and I want to make sure my training is in order so I don't have problems.

 

[psychmama]

First -- I may have been in error about the number of hours. I think NY and NJ are the same, so maybe it's 1750 for both. Anyway, NY is easier because 1) you can start counting hours as soon as you get the doctorate, 2) you can take the EPPP right away, and 3) no oral exam. Pennsylvania's even easier -- I think it's 1500 hrs, EPPP right away and no oral exam (although there may be a state ethics/jursiprudence exam, not sure).

I'm not sure about all the details of what gets accepted from jursidiction to jurisdiction. I think if you've been licensed for a while in another state NJ accepts the hours (assuming equivalency of supervision reqs, etc). But I know you still gotta do the oral in NJ and it's a pain.

For all the deets, check the ASPPB website. They list requirements of licensure for every state. The safest course if to call the licensure board directly for any state you're thinking of getting licensed in. The rules and regulations can be complex.

 

[Shatani]

First -- I may have been in error about the number of hours. I think NY and NJ are the same, so maybe it's 1750 for both. Anyway, NY is easier because 1) you can start counting hours as soon as you get the doctorate, 2) you can take the EPPP right away, and 3) no oral exam. Pennsylvania's even easier -- I think it's 1500 hrs, EPPP right away and no oral exam (although there may be a state ethics/jursiprudence exam, not sure).

I'm not sure about all the details of what gets accepted from jursidiction to jurisdiction. I think if you've been licensed for a while in another state NJ accepts the hours (assuming equivalency of supervision reqs, etc). But I know you still gotta do the oral in NJ and it's a pain.

For all the deets, check the ASPPB website. They list requirements of licensure for every state. The safest course if to call the licensure board directly for any state you're thinking of getting licensed in. The rules and regulations can be complex.

PA was 1500 but i believe last year was the last year that this was the number. its now up to 1750. no orals, you can now take the EPPP any time after completing your program. you used to have to wait until all hours were done. you still cant get your license earlier than a year after completing your program, im told. and yes, you have to take the PPLE which is just a memorization thing and not a single person i know who has passed the EPPP has failed the PPLE.

i heard that in NY youre licensed for life. no CEUs required. is that true?