ER docs out in the midwest....

[ekimsurfer]

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I'm a current student and i'm leaning toward maybe becomming an ER doc and working out in the midwest like utah, colorado, wyoming, etc. where i can get a lot of skiing and mountain activities in.

Here are my questions:

1. Is it reasonable to assume that i will have a fair amount of free time to do these activities that i like?

2. What kind of salary (net) will i be looking at taking in?

3. What type of step1 scores and GPA are we talking about?

4. Is it worth it to try and go for something where you can make more money but work more hours?

 

[doc05]

utah, colorado, wyoming aren't in the midwest. maybe "mountain west?"

 

[Apollyon]

utah, colorado, wyoming aren't in the midwest. maybe "mountain west?"

Yeah, if you're into "Big Sky" country, you'll get it to excess in Wyoming.

 

[Sessamoid]

Here are my questions:

1. Is it reasonable to assume that i will have a fair amount of free time to do these activities that i like?

Short answer: yes.

2. What kind of salary (net) will i be looking at taking in?

Search on the topic. Asked and answered ad nauseum. Lots of good threads about it.

3. What type of step1 scores and GPA are we talking about?

Good scores and class placement helps, but not necessary. Again, oodles of threads about this topic.

4. Is it worth it to try and go for something where you can make more money but work more hours?

Depends on your priorities. We can't answer that for you.

As has been noted already, the states you noted aren't midwest. They're usually referred to as either "west" or "rocky mountain" states. Midwest is more like Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, etc. I know it all seems a hell of a long ways off from Florida. I just moved from Florida myself.

 

[ekimsurfer]

Short answer: yes.


Search on the topic. Asked and answered ad nauseum. Lots of good threads about it.


Good scores and class placement helps, but not necessary. Again, oodles of threads about this topic.


Depends on your priorities. We can't answer that for you.

As has been noted already, the states you noted aren't midwest. They're usually referred to as either "west" or "rocky mountain" states. Midwest is more like Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, etc. I know it all seems a hell of a long ways off from Florida. I just moved from Florida myself.

can i ask why you moved from florida?

personally, i'm trying to get as far away from this state as possible. the people here are turning or have already turned into lunatics.

 

[Doczilla]

1. Is it reasonable to assume that i will have a fair amount of free time to do these activities that i like?

2. What kind of salary (net) will i be looking at taking in?

3. What type of step1 scores and GPA are we talking about?

4. Is it worth it to try and go for something where you can make more money but work more hours?

1. Yes. ER docs tend to have a schedule that is much more reasonable (and flexible) than other specialties. This is a big advantage, but not a really good reason to go into EM. Other specialties along this line are radiology, pathology, anesthesia (for some), physical medicine and rehab, occupational med, nuclear med, and some of the medicine subspecialties.

Also, Denver is the only EM program in the region you mentioned. There are good programs in other areas near mountains where you will find what you are looking for. Of course, you can always move back after residency.

2) Average starting salary nationwide is around 140K, with substantial variability depending on area and practice environment.

3) EM is competitive and getting more so. While you don't need to be top of the class and AOA with a 250 board score, you can't have just cruised through med school. The number of applications to EM is growing rapidly, while the number of residency slots is not. Check out the other threads on this topic.

4) Sessamoid said it right: there is no good answer to that. If you're going into EM simply because of salary and hours, you may not be very happy. Which is worse, getting paid a lot of money and dreading coming to work every day, or getting paid less money (but still a liveable wage. You will be a doctor, after all) but loving what you do and being excited to come to work? If you want to be an ER doc simply because you get more free time and more money, try to keep in mind that the chances of you being punched, kicked, spit on, vomited on, and cursed at (daily) are a whole lot higher in EM than in other specialties. Burnout is particularly high in EM, (10 years for many physicians) and I can imagine that it is much higher for those who aren't really into it.

Look for the specialty that lights your fire, regardless of the hours or the pay. You will find a way to make it work for the life you want.


'zilla

 

[Sessamoid]

can i ask why you moved from florida?

personally, i'm trying to get as far away from this state as possible. the people here are turning or have already turned into lunatics.

I would love to be the poster child for malpractice reform and say I moved because of the hostile medicolegal environment, but the truth is that I have a lot of family here and the weather is awesome.

Following up Doczilla's post, I think the starting salary of 140K is pretty low. None of my classmates started anywhere near that low. I think the lowest starting pay out of my residency class was around 180K, including CA, OR, FL, and TX jobs.

 

[Jeff698]

I know I've read a relatively recent salary survey covering all emergency physicians, regardless of practice setting. I seem to remember the nation-wide average for all comers was right at $200,000 with academics earning a tad less. Unfortunately, I couldn't find that article.

I did, however, find this one reporting data from 2001-2002 for academic EM faculty. Here's the results from the abstract:

"Mean salaries were reported as follows: all faculty, $180,913; first-year faculty, $147,746; programs reporting data to the AAMC, $174,354; programs not reporting data to the AAMC, $191,397. Mean salaries as reported by AAMC region: northeast, $178,593; south, $176,314; midwest, $200,095; west, $166,779. Full-time emergency medicine residency program faculty work an average of 1,129 clinical hours per year. "


Kristal SL, Randall-Kristal KA, Thompson BM. 2001-2002 SAEM emergency medicine faculty salary and benefits survey. Acad Emerg Med. 2002 Dec;9(12):1435-44.

I'll keep looking for study I was thinking of.

Take care,
Jeff

 

[Jeff698]

I know I've read a relatively recent salary survey covering all emergency physicians, regardless of practice setting. I seem to remember the nation-wide average for all comers was right at $200,000 with academics earning a tad less. Unfortunately, I couldn't find that article.

Now I remember. I was from an MGMA study quoted in either ACEP news or AMA news. Either way, it isn't indexed so it's unsearchable. Sorry.

Take care,
Jeff

 

[kungfufishing]

Now I remember. I was from an MGMA study quoted in either ACEP news or AMA news. Either way, it isn't indexed so it's unsearchable. Sorry.


I use that one on rounds all the time!

in all seriousness, the people that I know who are presently job hunting or just took new jobs all started at 200 and frequently more. Admittedly, this is anecdotal and I dont live on either coast or in a big city. The numbers I usually hear are 110-130 an hour, with 130 being the mode value for the group.

 

[waterski232002]

Here is some Data that I received off a reprint of the August 2004 Physicians Compensation Report.....

The Stern survey pay figures are significantly higher than those reported by MGMA or AMGA. The overall median pay for 2002 in the Stern survey was about $230,000. The 2002 median emergency medicine pay level for MGMA was $212,000, and for AMGA it was $202,000. (2002 is the most recent year available from the two trade groups, although both are publishing 2003 compensation data in the next month or two.) About a third of Stern's data is for ED directors, which may explain some of the difference between these benchmarks.

The Stern survey asked respondents their hourly rates, and found medians of $111 for staff physicians and $100 for ED directors. This apparent "inversion" of expected results occurs because many ED directors are paid stipends separate from their hourly pay for serving as director, Stern explains.

Emergency Department Physician Compensation, 2003 vs. 2002

National
2002
2003
Percentage change, 2002 to 2003
Staff physician
$218,500
$234,900
+7.7%

ED director
$256,500
$272,800
+6.0%

By residency and board certification
Staff physician

EM resident & board-certified
$231,800
$233,300
+0.6%

Board-certified only
$218,200
$231,000
+5.5%

No residency or certification
$209,400
$205,300
-2.0%

ED director

EM resident & board-certified
$258,400
$273,600
+5.5%

Board-certified only
$265,700
$266,700
+0.3%

No residency or certification
$218,100
$238,400
+8.5%

By region
Northeast

Staff physician
$196,100
$216,900
+9.6%

ED director
$235,300
$261,300
+10.0%

Southeast

Staff physician
$226,000
$241,100
+6.2%

ED director
$247,600
$276,800
+10.5%

North Central

Staff physician
$226,400
$235,200
+3.8%

ED director
$275,900
$266,100
-3.5%

South Central

Staff physician
$241,400
$249,500
+3.2%

ED director
$275,000
$284,100
+3.2%

West

Staff physician
$213,700
$241,000
+11.3%

ED director
$256,800
$264,000
+2.7%

SOURCE: Daniel Stern & Associates and PhysicianWork.com. See table, below, for more source information and definitions. All figures are for median total compensation rounded off to nearest hundred dollars, and reflect combined samples of employee and partner physicians with independent contractors excluded.

Emergency Department Physician Compensation Range, 2003

10th percentile
Median
90th percentile

Staff Physician

Employee, base
$134,100
$192,000
$257,500

Employee, total
$139,900
$219,000
$341,200

Partner, base
$149,000
$202,700
$293,900

Partner, total
$162,300
$250,800
$370,200

Contractor, base
$122,400
$221,200
$334,300

Contractor, total
$123,100
$237,800
$363,900

* Insufficient data.
SOURCE: Daniel Stern & Associates, (800) 438-2476 or www.danielstern.com, and PhysicianWork.com (StaffMD, Inc.), 2004 Emergency Physician Salary & Compensation Survey. Sample size: 948 ED physicians, of which 645 are staff physicians

 

[Homunculus]

130 being the mode value for the group.

someone has spent *way* too much time on internal medicine . . . that or you are a closet internist and are afraid to admit it 😎

--your friendly neighborhood on call in the NICU caveman

 

[kungfufishing]

someone has spent *way* too much time on internal medicine . . . that or you are a closet internist and are afraid to admit it


Maybe you havent heard, but chicks really dig a man well versed in statistics. no, really, they do.

 

[MasterintuBater]

In addition to Denver, there's a new EM program in Salt Lake City, Utah

 

[ekimsurfer]

In addition to Denver, there's a new EM program in Salt Lake City, Utah

do you have any info on this UT program?

 

[The White Coat Investor]

See the thread labeled Utah (do a search.)

You know, its funny, I've heard New Yorkers refer to going "out West." They were referring to Western Pennsylvania at the time. Don't walk into the rockies and call someone a midwesterner, there's a lot of armed ranchers out here.