subtlepenguin

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If I am listed as an author for an oral presentation but didn't give the presentation, do I still list that under publications in ERAS.
 

Amba

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Nope. If you weren't present at the event, it doesn't count.
No, you are wrong and have no clue what you are talking about.

OP: yes, absolutely list it. There aren't clear guidelines on how to do this. For mine, if the abstract was published in a supplemental issue of a journal, I put it under Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts. Under publication name, I put "Journal Name: presented at Conference X." If the abstract was not published in a supplemental issue, I put it in the Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts (Other than Published) category. Under publication name, I put "Presented at Conference X." For publication status, I put accepted.

Hope that helps.
 
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Foot Fetish

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No, you are wrong and have no clue what you are talking about.

OP: yes, absolutely list it. There aren't clear guidelines on how to do this. For mine, if the abstract was published in a supplemental issue of a journal, I put it under Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts. Under publication name, I put "Journal Name: presented at Conference X." If the abstract was not published in a supplemental issue, I put it in the Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts (Other than Published) category. Under publication name, I put "Presented at Conference X." For publication status, I put accepted.

Hope that helps.
I don't see how it's appropriate to say you gave an oral presentation when you weren't even present at the event. If it was a poster that you helped construct, then maybe it could be justified. But for an oral presentation? Seems disingenuous, to put it lightly.
 

Lawper

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I don't see how it's appropriate to say you gave an oral presentation when you weren't even present at the event. If it was a poster that you helped construct, then maybe it could be justified. But for an oral presentation? Seems disingenuous, to put it lightly.
Oral presentations at national/international conferences are one type of abstracts (poster presentations are the other). Being a coauthor on an oral presentation = being an author on the abstract = counts per @Amba guidelines.

It is definitely not disingenuous. Coauthors contributed to the final work that's been presented by the first author or presenter. The mentor overseeing the project felt the contributions were significant enough to be added as an author. It's definitely legit.
 
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AxiomaticTruth

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Wait so let me get this straight. If I am a coauthor of an oral/poster presentation and the first author gives the actual presentation (not me), I can still list that on ERAS as an oral/poster presentation and not a "research experience?" Should I designate who presented it and where?

Another issue is that I have a few things cooking for RSNA 2017, but I am not sure if the abstracts are published too. If they are not published in a supplemental journal, you are arguing that those count as "peer reviewed articles/abstracts (other than published)?" I mean there isn't THAT much peer reviewing being done with these abstracts...
 

Amba

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I don't see how it's appropriate to say you gave an oral presentation when you weren't even present at the event. If it was a poster that you helped construct, then maybe it could be justified. But for an oral presentation? Seems disingenuous, to put it lightly.
No. Just no. Quit arguing about things you clearly don't understand. ERAS has separate categories oral presentations, poster presentations, and peer-reviewed abstracts/etc, as per my last post. My CV also has a separate category for co-authored abstracts. In no way is that disingenuous.
 

Lawper

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Wait so let me get this straight. If I am a coauthor of an oral/poster presentation and the first author gives the actual presentation (not me), I can still list that on ERAS as an oral/poster presentation and not a "research experience?" Should I designate who presented it and where?

Another issue is that I have a few things cooking for RSNA 2017, but I am not sure if the abstracts are published too. If they are not published in a supplemental journal, you are arguing that those count as "peer reviewed articles/abstracts (other than published)?" I mean there isn't THAT much peer reviewing being done with these abstracts...
I think submitting abstracts for national/international conferences involves some peer review process to get accepted. So they can be listed on your CV to show productivity.

IIRC, RSNA doesn't publish abstracts in supplemental journals (at least that's what i've been told) but they can be added in your CV regardless since it's productivity at well known conference.
 

Lawper

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ERAS 'Publications' Listing FAQ

Here are a few guidelines regarding what can or should be represented in the various sections of your Common Application Form (CAF).

What can I list under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts"?
  • Articles that have been published in a peer-reviewed journal.
  • Abstracts that have been published in a peer-reviewed journal. (This is rare, but generally some academic societies have their abstracts published in peer-reviewed journals. For example, abstracts from the International Society for Biomedical Research on Alcoholism World Congress, September 13-16, 2010 were published in a supplement to the journal Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research. This is not a peer-reviewed venue in the traditional sense, so Still Kickin was right to express some reservations about this in another thread. If you were submitting materials for tenure, then you would not list this in any 'peer-reviewed' section of your CV. However, for the purposes of a medical student applying for residency training using the CAF, it is generally considered acceptable to list in this section.)
  • For completed articles published in non-peer-reviewed venues (e.g., newspaper op-eds, Harvard Business School case studies), see below.
  • For abstracts that have been 'published' not in peer-reviewed journals (e.g. conference abstract CD-ROM, conference program book, etc.) see below.
Note: 'Peer review' generally means that your article has been subjected to scrutiny by one or more referees in your field. Generally this does not include book editors (and therefore books and book chapters should not be listed in this category), newspaper and magazine editors, etc.

What can I list under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts (Other than Published)"?
  • Articles that have been accepted for publication in a peer-reviewed journal.
  • Articles that have been conditionally accepted for publication in a peer-reviewed journal.
  • For not-yet completed manuscripts that have been submitted for publication, not yet been submitted for publication but are intended for submission, etc., see below.
What can I list under "Poster Presentation"?
  • Posters that were presented at a regional, national or international research conference. Generally this means that a physical item resembling a research poster was created, and you stood next to the poster during the poster session to discuss the work with viewers.
  • Posters that were presented at a medical school 'research day' can be included here.
  • Posters that you presented at a regional, national or international research conference, even if you were not listed as first author, can be included here.
  • Posters that were presented by another member of your research team (i.e., not you) at a regional, national or international research conference, even if you were listed as one of the authors -- even if you were listed as first author -- should not be included here. A listing belongs here if you were the one who did the talking.
What can I list under "Oral Presentation"?
  • Presentations given at a regional, national or international research conference. Generally this means that you delivered a presentation from a podium in a lecture hall.
  • 'Grand Rounds' presentations (that were explicitly labeled as such) delivered at an academic medical center or community hospital can be included here. This is a nod to medical tradition, as 'Grand Rounds' presentations are typically afforded a greater degree of prestige and visibility the medical field (rightly or wrongly so).
  • Other teaching presentations delivered in a relatively high-visibility setting (e.g., a presentation on ACLS as part of a training course for para-medical professionals, CME talks, a 'brown bag' seminar at a Department of Economics, etc.) can be included here.
  • Presentations delivered to your hospital ward team during routine clinical care, in a journal club setting, etc. are generally not included here.
What can I list under "Other Articles"?
  • Significant publications that do not belong in the other categories can be included here. For example: books, book chapters, newspaper op-eds, the American Journal of Psychiatry's "Electronic Edition for Residents", etc. If it seems weird to you that a full-length book is downgraded in the eyes of science, then that is generally an accurate description of perceptions in the field. A book is not peer reviewed and carries less weight in the academy then a body of peer-reviewed journal articles. For example, the 'intelligent design' movement is typically denigrated because it has not published in a peer reviewed venue (even though its proponents have published many very widely read books). As another example, Samantha Power won a Pulitzer Prize and National Book Critics Circle Award for her book, 'A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide', but her academic appointment is 'professor of practice' because her body of work has not been published in peer reviewed venues.
What should I list under "Research Experience"?
  • This section includes all research experience. It would be appropriate to highlight work that has led to publications in any fora (peer-reviewed or not) or awards. For example, "Under the supervision of Professor XYZ, I studied the year-end transfer process of resident continuity clinic patients and the impact of a caseload construction algorithm on physician workload. For this project I conducted the chart review and implemented the statistical analyses. This work was presented at Conference XYZ (see below) and has been submitted for publication in Journal XYZ." Note here the explicit reference "see below" avoids the appearance of double-counting.
  • If you were an author on research that was presented in abstract form at a conference, either as a poster or oral presentation, but you were not the presenter, then you can list the research under 'peer reviewed journal articles/abstracts' if it was published in a peer reviewed journal. If the research was not published in a peer reviewed journal (either as a full article or as an abstract), then you should not list it in any of the categories above. It would be appropriate to describe your involvement in the research project in the 'Research Experience' section.
  • If you were an author on a draft manuscript that is intended for submission to a peer reviewed journal, or has been submitted for publication in a peer reviewed journal, or is currently under review at a peer reviewed journal, but has not advanced further in the publication process (e.g., revise and resubmit, provisionally accepted, accepted for publication, in press, etc.) then you should not list it under 'peer reviewed journal articles'. It would be appropriate to describe your involvement in the research project in the 'Research Experience' section. For example: "Under the supervision of Professor XYZ, I studied the modulation of working memory performance in healthy volunteers with non-invasive cortical stimulation. I also regularly performed clinical assessments in the lab's clinic. We have completed a draft manuscript, "The modulation of working memory performance in children with autism", and by September we plan to submit it for publication in the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders."
  • Some program directors have been known to ask for any publications listed in your CAF. Therefore, if you do not yet have a draft manuscript available, then you should not describe it as a 'draft manuscript' in this section.
Other considerations
  • In general, you should only include listings that you are comfortable representing as your level of involvement in a particular category.
  • Be conservative in your category assignments. If you are perceived by residency application reviewers to be 'upselling', that will reflect negatively on your application.
  • If you are generally curious about a category assignment, search the SDN forum archives to see if your situation has been described by another applicant in the past. If your search of the SDN forum archives does not yield any fruitful answers, consider posting a question on the SDN forum.
  • If you are considering posting a question on the SDN forum because you just want to see how much upselling you can get away with, then please do not post your question.
  • If you gave a (poster or oral) presentation at a conference, and the abstract corresponding to your presentation was subsequently published in a peer-reviewed journal (e.g., abstracts from the Annual Scientific Meeting of the Research Society on Alcoholism), then you can list in more than one category: (a) peer reviewed journal abstracts, and (b) (poster or oral) presentations.
  • If you gave a (poster or oral) presentation at a conference, and the abstract corresponding to your presentation was 'published' in a non-peer reviewed venue (such as the conference program book or CD-ROM), then see above: this would not count as a 'peer reviewed' publication, and you should not list in more than one category. (If this seems like a capricious function of the academic society's decision about whether or not to commission a journal supplement, it is. If you feel like this is 'unfair' because you don't get to list your work in the 'peer reviewed journal abstracts' section of the CAF, then get over it. Life is unfair.)
Hope this helps. Open to revising this with feedback from program directors or residents on selection committees who have experience reviewing residency applications.
-AT.
Some guidelines found in ERAS forums. Although I don't know the specific details and variations involved so I defer to experts like @Amba and residents/fellows/attendings/program directors.
 

AxiomaticTruth

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Yes this all very confusing since some people in the ERAS CV thread has said to put posters/oral presentations done by other people with you as coauthor should be listed as an abstract, not as a poster/oral presentation. But people here are saying a poster/oral is a poster/oral, doesn't matter if you presented or not. Some older comments even say to put those poster/orals as "research experiences" with a comment saying presented as poster at X conference. So very confusing.
 
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I'm also on the confused train and have heard many mixed opinions about this outside of SDN. Anyone else have some insight on this?
 

Ismet

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If you did not do the presentation, do not classify it as an oral or poster presentation. Even if your name is on the poster.

You can discuss the work you did in Research Experiences.
 
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