ERAS Unassigning Letters of Recs

[Hassler]

So, I'm applying for fellowship this application cycle. Is it impossible to unassign LOR after they have been assigned? For a couple programs, I deselected the letter assignment but despite that, it is still made available to the programs according to ADTS (even though the deselection occurred before programs even had the chance to download, i.e. before 7/15). My original intention was to unassign a letter writer and reassign a different letter writer, but now I'm stuck where programs can download 5 letters total (because not only are they able to download the 4 assigned letters, but also the letter that I deselected). This is bad. Is there any way to fix this? Thanks.

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[ukdoc74]

same thing happens with personal statements and photos.

Once you put it in the mailbox, you can't take it back. Only thing you can do is add to it.

ERAS specifically says that it replaces it but they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Hassler]

same thing happens with personal statements and photos.

Once you put it in the mailbox, you can't take it back. Only thing you can do is add to it.

ERAS specifically says that it replaces it but they don't know what they are talking about.

So, then.... what's the point of deselection? Why even give me this option if it doesn't work?

 

[mcl]

ERAS can't reach into my hard drive and remove a file that is already there, so deselection would only work if a program has not already accessed the ERAS Post Office and downloaded the original letter. If I already have the letter, I'll see a notification that it has been deselected, but I can still read it. If you deselect before I download from the EPO, I'll never know it was there in the first place.

ERAS can overwrite an editable file I've already downloaded. For example, if you find a typo on your personal statement after you've submitted it, you can resubmit a corrected one which will replace the document I've already downloaded (I won't see two personal statements). The activity report (which lists exactly what I downloaded alphabetically by applicant each time I access the EPO) will indicate that it is a replacement document. I'll no longer be able to see the original when I access your ERAS application on my computer--but if I had already printed the application, it would be up to me to print the new PS document and manually replace it in the applicant's file. It should happen, but honestly it may not-- it depends on how crazy the day is, how many other documents downloaded at the same time which I need to review, and how soon that particular application is being sent to the review committee.

I hope this helps explain how ERAS works from the PD work station side.

 

[Hassler]

ERAS can't reach into my hard drive and remove a file that is already there, so deselection would only work if a program has not already accessed the ERAS Post Office and downloaded the original letter. If I already have the letter, I'll see a notification that it has been deselected, but I can still read it. If you deselect before I download from the EPO, I'll never know it was there in the first place.

ERAS can overwrite an editable file I've already downloaded. For example, if you find a typo on your personal statement after you've submitted it, you can resubmit a corrected one which will replace the document I've already downloaded (I won't see two personal statements). The activity report (which lists exactly what I downloaded alphabetically by applicant each time I access the EPO) will indicate that it is a replacement document. I'll no longer be able to see the original when I access your ERAS application on my computer--but if I had already printed the application, it would be up to me to print the new PS document and manually replace it in the applicant's file. It should happen, but honestly it may not-- it depends on how crazy the day is, how many other documents downloaded at the same time which I need to review, and how soon that particular application is being sent to the review committee.

I hope this helps explain how ERAS works from the PD work station side.

However, this is not entire true though. It seems that even if I deselect the letter and if the letter has already been uploaded to the PostOffice, it is still available to the program for download even if the programs haven't already downloaded the letters.

My ultimate question is this:
Suppose I have letter writers A, B, C, D that were assigned to the program. If I deselect A and reassign E, all 5 letters show up as made available to the program in ADTS. This is a scenario that I don't want because I don't want 5 letters to be sent to a program. Now, it happens that letter writer E hasn't uploaded the letter to the Postoffice yet. If I deselect E now, will that letter be made available to the program if E later decides to send the letter? I called ERAS and the person said that it doesn't matter anyway because ERAS does not provide the "capability" for programs to download 5 letters. I'm very confused and I certainly don't want to send another "inactive" letter if they are to receive 5 letters anyway. Apparently A is sent as "inactive" now that I deselected it and I can't change that.....

 

[mcl]

However, this is not entire true though. It seems that even if I deselect the letter and if the letter has already been uploaded to the PostOffice, it is still available to the program for download even if the programs haven't already downloaded the letters.

It's true to my experience--I've never downloaded a letter that was already inactive, I've only had letters become inactive at some point after downloading. I'll go back and look at last year's ERAS to see if I received a 5th letter after an applicant deselected a prior letter. I'm pretty sure that I have. You could always ask programs if you could have the 5th letter faxed or sent as an email attachment.

Update: It didn't happen last year (I had no inactive letters), but did happen in 2011.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Some of the confusion is that ERAS changed last year the way LOR's were dealt with.

Ancient history: In ERAS 2011 and before, you could send as many LOR's to each program as you wanted. You could only have 4 "active" letters, but once you sent 4, if you wanted to send more you would label one of the prior letters "inactive", and then send another. On our side, we would see all of the letters, the inactive ones would be labeled with a red X.

Starting with last year (ERAS 2012), this system changed. Now you cannot inactivate letters once sent. Once you send 4 letters, that's it -- no changes, no additions.

Now, to the question asked. According to the ERAS help file, you can unassign a letter from a program as long as the letter has not been uploaded to the post office. If the LOR is in the postoffice but not downloaded by a program, then you can't unassign it. Consider it "in the mail".

Although mcl is correct that you can send additional letters via email or fax, I encourage people not to do this. Really, you should be able to give me a good sense of whom you are in 4 letters. More is not better. If you expect to have a late breaking letter (perhaps from a SubI), then send 3 and save a slot.

 

[Hassler]

Some of the confusion is that ERAS changed last year the way LOR's were dealt with.

Ancient history: In ERAS 2011 and before, you could send as many LOR's to each program as you wanted. You could only have 4 "active" letters, but once you sent 4, if you wanted to send more you would label one of the prior letters "inactive", and then send another. On our side, we would see all of the letters, the inactive ones would be labeled with a red X.

Starting with last year (ERAS 2012), this system changed. Now you cannot inactivate letters once sent. Once you send 4 letters, that's it -- no changes, no additions.

Now, to the question asked. According to the ERAS help file, you can unassign a letter from a program as long as the letter has not been uploaded to the post office. If the LOR is in the postoffice but not downloaded by a program, then you can't unassign it. Consider it "in the mail".

Although mcl is correct that you can send additional letters via email or fax, I encourage people not to do this. Really, you should be able to give me a good sense of whom you are in 4 letters. More is not better. If you expect to have a late breaking letter (perhaps from a SubI), then send 3 and save a slot.

So, even if I check the 5th letter writer, the program can't receive the 5th letter, even though all 5 are "made available" on ADTS?

Just to clarify, I really don't want to send a 5th letter, as programs will think I'm not following instructions. What I did was I deselected 1 letter writer and selected the 5th letter writer. Nothing really wrong with the 1st letter writer, though I thought the 5th letter writer would be better. So now, that 1st letter writer's letter will have a big red X inactive next to it (right?), and I can't undo this. And now, I'm also wary of deselecting the 5th letter because I don't want another big red X inactive letter sent to the same program.

I prefer only sending 4 letters, but if forced to send 5, I really don't want another big red X inactive letter.

What is my best course of action at this time? Sorry, my question may be confusing.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

All of my advice here is limited, since I can't see what you see on your end with ADTS.

So, even if I check the 5th letter writer, the program can't receive the 5th letter, even though all 5 are "made available" on ADTS?

This is correct, I think. Programs can ONLY receive 4 letters total, so no matter what you do, I can't get more than 4 letters.

Just to clarify, I really don't want to send a 5th letter, as programs will think I'm not following instructions. What I did was I deselected 1 letter writer and selected the 5th letter writer. Nothing really wrong with the 1st letter writer, though I thought the 5th letter writer would be better. So now, that 1st letter writer's letter will have a big red X inactive next to it (right?), and I can't undo this. And now, I'm also wary of deselecting the 5th letter because I don't want another big red X inactive letter sent to the same program.

Yes and No.

My understanding is this: If Letter 1 was already uploaded into the system, and you already assigned it to a program, then you won't be able to unassign it, and shouldn't be able to assign letter 5 either. Basically, ERAS feels that you "sent in the mail" letters 1-4, and so there is no taking them back. And since there is a limit of 4 letters, that's it.

There will be no red X next to anyone's letters. That's in the past.

If Letter 1 has not been uploaded, then it's not "in the mail". So, you can unassign it, and now assign letter 5.

I prefer only sending 4 letters, but if forced to send 5, I really don't want another big red X inactive letter.

You can't send 5 letters, no matter what you do.

 

[Hassler]

Thanks. I'll see what happens. Not really sure why ERAS even give people the option to deselect if you are not allowed to unassign letters. Or why do 5 letters show up under ADTS as "made available" when they don't allow more than 4 per program. Makes no sense.....

 

[DrAwsome]

All of my advice here is limited, since I can't see what you see on your end with ADTS.



This is correct, I think. Programs can ONLY receive 4 letters total, so no matter what you do, I can't get more than 4 letters.



Yes and No.

My understanding is this: If Letter 1 was already uploaded into the system, and you already assigned it to a program, then you won't be able to unassign it, and shouldn't be able to assign letter 5 either. Basically, ERAS feels that you "sent in the mail" letters 1-4, and so there is no taking them back. And since there is a limit of 4 letters, that's it.

There will be no red X next to anyone's letters. That's in the past.

If Letter 1 has not been uploaded, then it's not "in the mail". So, you can unassign it, and now assign letter 5.



You can't send 5 letters, no matter what you do.

I may be wrong, but I believe that since the medical school uploads the letters, if there is an error you can create a new slot for the letter, and have the school upload it to that new slot, and unassign the previous letter from a program. If they have downloaded it though, game over. But if that letter has not been downloaded, that unassigning will work, and with the creation of a new slot the letter can be reassigned to a different program/specialty or whatever.