Ethical Dilemma

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
P

Peaches84

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
.
Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I also don't think it is your place to blow the whistle on this one. While yes it stinks for people that do things the right way he is taking a big risk by not disclosing his old transcripts. What if it somehow comes up after a few years into pharmacy school? Now he suddenly may get kicked out after wasting a lot of time and money.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
You really can't prove it, so alleging that he left off X number of units from Y school won't hold water. Maybe they'd ask for transcripts from that school after you mention it, maybe not...

As much as I'd like to see him get burned and I think he's a complete douchebag, I just don't think you will get anywhere mentioning it to the school.

Then again, there was that big time author recently that got the whistle blown on her plagiarism by two bloggers who wrote the publishing company exposing her as a fraud, and she got busted.
 
what goes around comes around so just let him be as waits for his, cheaters never win. I'm happy you got through your tough times and your mother got better. Good luck!
 
Yes I would tell. Is this the kind of person you want having access to addictive meds, someone who sold pot and lied about their coursework? Is that the kind of person you want compounding your mom's meds, or your kid sister's meds?

Professional ethics are ALL of our business. I would absolutely tell.
 
Peaches84 said:
I hoping someone can help me with an ethical dilemma. I work with this guy who is also applying to pharmacy school for 2010. At one time, we went to the same university. I also know he failed a bunch of classes including gen chem and was kicked out of that university for poor academic performance. When I talk to him about pharmacy applications he said he is only applying to one school (a new school in our area, accepting first class for 2010 - not accredited). He is extraordinarily vague about everything else, but did mention that he didn't and isn't planning to submit transcipts for his stint at the university. He just started at his current school and is basically starting fresh taking everything over again. When I told him that it is required he submits all of his transcripts, even if they suck, he says "they're not ever going to find out"

Now, the ethical dilemma, should I mention this to the school he's planning on applying to?

I know I'm not an ADCOM and feel weird about jeopardizing someone's chances to get into pharmacy school. But to be fair, my academic record sucked too. After my first two years of college, my overall GPA was 2.8. BUT, before you go thinking I was lazy or something, please understand, my mom was diagnosed with cancer at the beginning of my freshman year and with no one to help pay the bills (parents divorced so mom lost health insurance), a younger sister at home, the rent coming due and the cupboards going empty, I worked full-time while attempting to attend school full-time as well. I never made less than a C in any class. After the chemo/surgery/hospitalization/radiation she was able to return to work and I was able to focus on school. I managed to pull a 3.73 average the next three years, made the dean's list four times, all while double-majoring in biology and nursing (I will graduate with my bachelors in both this May). I pulled my overall GPA up to a 3.3, took on tons of extracurriculars, and continued working in pharmacy (5 years total experience). l found out last week I got ACCEPTED to Shenandoah.
Click to expand...

If you were to tell this school about it, they will say the following to you: Well sir, this information is very interesting....prove it.

Can you prove it?

Yes I would tell. Is this the kind of person you want having access to addictive meds, someone who sold pot and lied about their coursework? Is that the kind of person you want compounding your mom's meds, or your kid sister's meds?

Professional ethics are ALL of our business. I would absolutely tell.
Click to expand...

I understand but making an accusation like this is serious business. If he can't prove it then he could very well be sued for defamation of character. I'm sure being labeled as a hustler and pot dealer is considered defamation.
 
Oh look, ADMISSIONS MAAAAN didn't tuck his tail between his legs and leave.

How's your mom's pharmacy working out bro? Err, I mean, grandma's pharmacy.

Common mistake to mix up one's mother and grandmother, I know. It's almost like they're different words, but then you start typing them and it's like, "Naw, same word."
 
I would not be the whistle-blower if I were you. Let him burn his own bridges. They will probably find out about his past transcripts anyways.
 
Peaches84 said:
Have I seen a copy of his transcript from that school, you bet. I know they would be looking for some proof but since I don't have a copy of his transcript, I assume that if I did tell them they could only ask him to provide transcripts from that particular school. As for the pot dealer thing, I've seen pictures, but I wasn't planning on mentioning that to the school. I know that would be a lot harder to prove, since I believe he has never been arrested for it.

But I suppose you're right. He's been so vague about his current grades and August PCAT score, other than that there's "room for improvement" that he may not have the stats to get in anyway. I assume new programs more numbers-driven for the first class?

Maybe I'll just be happy that I found out I got in to pharmacy school now and he will probably have to wait until December for a decision.

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

I guess you could suggest that the school contact this other university for the transcript but I'm still not sure if that's your business to do so.

The pictures of marijuana you claim are hearsay. He can claim that they were cigarettes or that you took those photos before a drama production of "Let's Act Like We Do Drugs" but you have no proof that is it what it is.
 
AdmissionsMan said:
I guess you could suggest that the school contact this other university for the transcript but I'm still not sure if that's your business to do so.

The pictures of marijuana you claim are hearsay. He can claim that they were cigarettes or that you took those photos before a drama production of "Let's Act Like We Do Drugs" but you have no proof that is it what it is.
Click to expand...

All important ADMISSIONS MAAAAAN,

I want to open a laundrymat pharmacy combo. I hear you're the guy to talk to about it. Or was that your cousin?
 
It depends: how much longer are you working with this guy? Since whistle blowing could come back to bite you in the butt if you keep working with him, he gets burned, and then he thinks it's because of you.

But other than that: I'd totally notify the college, anonymously, that they might want to check with the college in question.

What's with this do-nothing attitude? The guy is a liar and a cheat... and possibly a drug dealer who would work in pharmacy.

I wouldn't mention the pot, but I have no sympathy for this guy, and while maybe the background checking process is rigorous enough to catch this guy, maybe it's not. Vague, "what goes around comes around" is wishy-washy karma crap which unfortunately doesn't happen in the real world.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Passion4Sci said:
I hope so.

He's a lying piece of crap.

Did you see his massive failure on the Pharmacy forum?

it's clear this guy has no clue what he's talking about, and I fear for the people he's giving "advice" to via PM.
Click to expand...

i was wondering the same thing. he started out with a few credible posts, but the ridiculous avatar, and some of his responses makes me wonder...:rolleyes:
 
Passion4Sci said:
I hope so.

He's a lying piece of crap.

Did you see his massive failure on the Pharmacy forum?

it's clear this guy has no clue what he's talking about, and I fear for the people he's giving "advice" to via PM.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I wonder about ALL of them. It's not that hard to get a new user name and spout out the things people want to hear. Hell, I bet most of the people who have been on the forums for a while could all pose as admission committee members and pass with flying colors. Of course... this guy fails at passing.

What I'm more worried about is if those people PMing him gave him their personal statements to "read" over. In all likelihood, he might be a prepharm student himself, looking to get some freebie personal statements.
 
Why do you want to bust this guy so bad? One day MJ will be federally decriminalized and no one will care.

People make mistakes and sometimes want to start over. If he screws up again, then I have no sympathy, but everyone needs a second chance.
 
Passion4Sci said:
I hope so.

He's a lying piece of crap.

Did you see his massive failure on the Pharmacy forum?

it's clear this guy has no clue what he's talking about, and I fear for the people he's giving "advice" to via PM.
Click to expand...

He made quick work to become the Kanye West of SDN.

I like his sig. It's tantamount to Micheal Vick giving you a guilt trip for not taking his veterinary tips.
 
AdmissionsMan said:
If you were to tell this school about it, they will say the following to you: Well sir, this information is very interesting....prove it.

Can you prove it?



I understand but making an accusation like this is serious business. If he can't prove it then he could very well be sued for defamation of character. I'm sure being labeled as a hustler and pot dealer is considered defamation.
Click to expand...

Very very much incorrect. The burden of proof is on the claimant who believes they were slandered to prove that statements provided were false. Further, statements have to be considered "offensive" to the mythical reasonable man for a court to find guilt in someone's statement. It'd be a piece of cake to subpoena records from a university, but it'll never get that far.

Merely saying "so-and-so attended X university and may or may not have submitted transcripts," would be nowhere near defamation of character. Of course, an enterprising attorney would love to rattle your cage, but the suit would be without merit.

This assumes what the OP is saying is in fact the truth.
 
ZeroC0mbine said:
i was wondering the same thing. he started out with a few credible posts, but the ridiculous avatar, and some of his responses makes me wonder...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

yeah, half the posts don't make sense
 
fenderbiz said:
Why do you want to bust this guy so bad? One day MJ will be federally decriminalized and no one will care.

People make mistakes and sometimes want to start over. If he screws up again, then I have no sympathy, but everyone needs a second chance.
Click to expand...

They are allowed to start over. But this isn't about starting anew. This is about deliberately hiding previous grades, which is a violation of the terms on PharmCAS.

Plenty of people here have had bad grades earlier, whether it be 2 years ago or 10 years ago. They're not trying to hide those grades. They admit they made the mistake, or had a hard time then, but they improve their grades to show they have become better at academics. This dude hiding his grades gives him a leg up, and is honestly, quite unfair and a slap to those other people who have owned up to their past bad grades and went on to show they can be better.

If it was me, I might call up the school and ask them about this friend, drop the name of the person and school they are hiding on the phone, and leave it at that. It is up to the school to decide what they want to do from that point on. If the school does decide to pursue the matter and find out the applicant did indeed hide his grades, I believe this guy's shot at pharmacy school is shot. These people talk to each other. No one will want to invite this guy to their school, let alone their profession. And honestly, he doesn't deserve to be. How can you trust your pharmacist with your life if you can't even trust him about his grades?
 
Imagine if this guy did get in and then managed to also cheat his way through portions of pharmacy school. Then there he is, a bona fide pharmacist, who then continues to choose to be unethical. And imagine you are working with him while he acts in further unethical ways. Would you, at that point, report him? Most of us would say yes.

In my opinion, the time when a person should behave in a totally above board manner, in every way shape and form, starts when you begin the process to become a pharmacist. This is one reason so many schools have a white coat ceremony at the beginning of the P1 year. It is symbolic, but also their way of saying that you are now officially at this higher level where what you say and do must be beyond reproach.

Knowing information like this is a royal pain in the *** because you now as an ethical person are morally obligated to communicate your information to the relevant parties. Call it snitching if you want or by its real name....acting professionally and within the expected boundaries of your (future) profession.

Of course, when you communicate this information it is best if you can do so without opening yourself up to possible liability. I personally know of several cases in my corporate America world experience where being the whistleblower was highly disadvantageous to not only the whistleblowee but also the whistleblower. So, that is why I would communicate the information in an anonymous manner and then let the school take it from there.

I know you have bumped your own thread but I still think it needs saying. To anyone in a similar situation...you would be reporting this guy not to hurt/harm/impact him but to PROTECT the innocent people this guy would have the possibility to hurt through his unethical actions. If you look at it from that perspective there can only be ONE right answer.
 
Peaches84 said:
I'm bumping my own thread

Update: I decided to take the 'wait and see' approach with this situation and I got my answer a couple of weeks ago.

Dude says that he didn't get offered an interview (read: rejected) and will spend next year working on his app. Also, dude got engaged this semester to another tech in our department. I talked to her about this guy the other day. She says: "If he wants to STAY engaged, he will put off pharmacy school for a couple of years." :eek::eek::eek: :lol::lol:


Never laughed as hard in my life as I did when I left that room. So...question answered.
Click to expand...

That's Karma, my friend.
 
Peaches84 said:
I'm bumping my own thread

Update: I decided to take the 'wait and see' approach with this situation and I got my answer a couple of weeks ago.

Dude says that he didn't get offered an interview (read: rejected) and will spend next year working on his app. Also, dude got engaged this semester to another tech in our department. I talked to her about this guy the other day. She says: "If he wants to STAY engaged, he will put off pharmacy school for a couple of years." :eek::eek::eek: :lol::lol:


Never laughed as hard in my life as I did when I left that room. So...question answered.
Click to expand...

hahaha....awesome, that's the best stuff i've heard in a while. glad you came back to update. wonder why the tech wants him to delay...she's just delaying the inevitable drop in lifestyle/income, and who knows there might be a baby at that point. i'd rather get engaged/married early or before school and so once babies/late 20's early 30's roll around, i'll have a steady paycheck to pay for it all.
 
confettiflyer said:
hahaha....awesome, that's the best stuff i've heard in a while. glad you came back to update. wonder why the tech wants him to delay...she's just delaying the inevitable drop in lifestyle/income, and who knows there might be a baby at that point. i'd rather get engaged/married early or before school and so once babies/late 20's early 30's roll around, i'll have a steady paycheck to pay for it all.
Click to expand...


There shouldn't be a baby if they can't afford it, so that shouldn't even be an issue.

You would think two pharmacy technicians could understand that penis + vagina - condom = baby... but whatever!
 
Passion4Sci said:
Oh look, ADMISSIONS MAAAAN didn't tuck his tail between his legs and leave.

How's your mom's pharmacy working out bro? Err, I mean, grandma's pharmacy.

Common mistake to mix up one's mother and grandmother, I know. It's almost like they're different words, but then you start typing them and it's like, "Naw, same word."
Click to expand...
OH man...now I gotta go read those posts you got me interested...:corny:
 
oops
 
Last edited:
Passion4Sci said:
Oh he edited that real fast, once Mikey called him on it.
Click to expand...
HAHHAHA...his posts are RIDICULOUS. What kind of admissions member calls people immature names on a forum... WOW. Don't you think he would be too busy to be sitting on here trying to make himself look cool? And it looks like he only tries to put people down from what I have read. Sounds like a little kid pretending to be a successful adult.:smuggrin:
 
"Never laughed as hard in my life as I did when I left that room. So...question answered."

Why even bother wasting time in your own life on this guy if you're so disgusted with him? In my personal experience, an elitist attitude is a very good way to make people dislike you.
 
Congrats on the acceptance.

I had a sub 2.0 gpa at my first two years at uni for reasons I won't say....but bounced back with 4.0s. I recently got invited to an interview too.

As for your friend, it's easy to get the kind of info to prove he attended another university.

Your university may be different...but I can get a list of the students id#s enrolled in a class I took then track down the student's name using using a student search, all online. Then I'd be able to blackmail the said student for $$$. :D

Personally, it's your call because we don't know all the details. I think that if he's a liability or will be a danger to others, you should at least try to straighten him out to be a good health care professional and a decent human being.

Also let him know, if the school finds out later, and sometimes they do, they can kick him out of the program, which is worse than being rejected first time around.

Also, it might be helpful speaking with your school's adviser or faculty about it because they would have better insight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

A
Dilemma, please help!
Replies
5
Views
940
nutripharma
N
R
Please help ASAP about dilemma
Replies
8
Views
2K
Mao263
M
kabtq9s
Suspension dilemma .. plz help
Replies
7
Views
1K
kabtq9s
kabtq9s
A
Ethical Issue Pharmacy Interview
Replies
5
Views
10K
bananaface
bananaface
S
pharmacy tech dilemma
Replies
3
Views
2K
Kelp103
K
Top