Ethical Question

[NOLA RISING]

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[ProwlerturnGas]

That sucks man, sorry to hear that. My advice FWIW: Let it drop and move on with life. Second, dont trade plagiarism for dishonesty (2nd authorship on something you havent worked on). You'll sleep better at night.

 

[nap$ter]

you abandoned the project after dragging it out and agreed to let someone else take over where you left off. did the PI explicitly state that you would be listed as an author when it was published?

if not, let it go - you're not entitled.

and don't take authorship on something you really didn't contribute to, as a consolation prize.

 

[2ndyear]

Agree. This kind of stuff can follow you your entire career (and potentially ruin it, and the attending though that is a different story altogether). Politely decline.

 

[NOLA RISING]

I agree. I did abandon the project. But there is literally 1 full page that are my thoughts word-for-word. If he didnt want my contributions, he should not have included them.

 

[NOLA RISING]

And it was very ambiguous as to whether i was going to be an author when I left it off with him.

 

[periopdoc]

You really aren't owed anything since

a) You didn't finish the project
b) The work you did do was half-assed
c) You expressed no interest in the project once you dropped it
d) You agreed to let someone else take over the project
e) When the work is not finalized, someone should NOT expect to be listed as an author.

It isn't plagiarism, you did some work and agreed to let someone else take it over. That means that they can expand on your work and submit it. He never said he didn't want your contribution, in fact it seems he wanted you to complete the project. Instead you backed out, and he found someone to complete the project. He is well within his rights to use your work. It isn't plagiarism unless you have already published it elsewhere.

I've been dropped for a lot less. If this sticks in your craw, don't ever do research in a lab where all of your work can and will be used by the PI without any credit going to you.

In an ideal world, everybody who contributes to a paper gets credit. In the real world, frequently the ones who do the most of the work get the least credit.

Last but not least, do not accept authorship on a paper that you had nothing to do with . It is fraudulent and it will come back to bite you in the ass when you are in the middle of an interview and someone asks you about it or some such.

- pod

 

[235750]

I agree. I did abandon the project. But there is literally 1 full page that are my thoughts word-for-word. If he didnt want my contributions, he should not have included them. You also have to understand that this dude is a scumbag. He plagiarized. I am owed credit on that paper.

It's pretty clear he's breaking ethics codes. You are right, he plagiarized, and that shouldn't be tolerated.

Once you notify him that there were portions of the paper that were taken verbatim (that point is particularly relevant), you should let him know you'll be contacting the journal. If you have time-stamped emails, send it to the editor. Explain the situation to him/her. If you don't have dated email conversations, then that could be tricky and you could make an argument for letting it go. Do you have them?

You did nothing wrong. And reporting his dishonesty won't get you in trouble.

If you handed over the project and if they still used/built off of your material, that just means you're lower on the list of co-authors. I was just notified that I'm to be 2nd to last author on a paper that I handed over last year.

Good luck and let us what happens

EDIT: someone above me posted as I was posting, so I'd like to address one point:

"In an ideal world, everybody who contributes to a paper gets credit."

In this case though, we are talking about taking parts of someone else's work verbatim. It's different if you gave a few suggestions or did some leg work. But, this is a text box definition of plagiarism. Put it this way: If you as a med student or resident pulled something like this, you'd be expelled/fired or at least put on probation.

 

[NOLA RISING]

...

 

[235750]

My research is in cardiology and psychiatry so maybe anesthesiology is different. But according to the journals I apply to, authorship is based on 2 things:

"[SIZE=-1]1) Substantial contributions to conception and design or analysis and interpretation of data.
2) Substantial contributions to drafting the article or revising it critically for important intellectual content."[/SIZE]

It is clear that if this paper-- a case study-- uses entire paragraphs, then this is absolutely plagiarism. The OP is an author by the majority of journals that I know of.
source: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/misc/ifora.dtl

It isn't plagiarism unless you have already published it elsewhere.

I have never heard that plagiarism must include pre-published work.

Every ethics code I've ever seen defines it as "a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work". Again, if you copied someone's work in class and passed it off as your own, you would absolutely fail the class. It would not matter if you plagiarized from Webster or your neighbor. And I don't see how this is different

 

[JamesBond15]

It's pretty clear he's breaking ethics codes. You are right, he plagiarized, and that shouldn't be tolerated.

Once you notify him that there were portions of the paper that were taken verbatim (that point is particularly relevant), you should let him know you'll be contacting the journal. If you have time-stamped emails, send it to the editor. Explain the situation to him/her. If you don't have dated email conversations, then that could be tricky and you could make an argument for letting it go. Do you have them?

You did nothing wrong. And reporting his dishonesty won't get you in trouble.

If you handed over the project and if they still used/built off of your material, that just means you're lower on the list of co-authors. I was just notified that I'm to be 2nd to last author on a paper that I handed over last year.

Good luck and let us what happens

EDIT: someone above me posted as I was posting, so I'd like to address one point:



In this case though, we are talking about taking parts of someone else's work verbatim. It's different if you gave a few suggestions or did some leg work. But, this is a text box definition of plagiarism. Put it this way: If you as a med student or resident pulled something like this, you'd be expelled/fired or at least put on probation.

I will guess that if the OP does this then he/she will not match anywhere. I doubt the attending will just take that sitting down.

 

[Bertelman]

Once you notify him that there were portions of the paper that were taken verbatim (that point is particularly relevant), you should let him know you'll be contacting the journal. If you have time-stamped emails, send it to the editor. Explain the situation to him/her. If you don't have dated email conversations, then that could be tricky and you could make an argument for letting it go. Do you have them?

I'm not sure going to these lengths will do anything to further the OP's career.

NOLA, it's clear you deserved to be on this paper, but I'm not sure I would put up a fight to make it happen. As I see it, you left the project, and as you stated, asked the lead author to "let you know if it gets published." That he did.

Lesson learned, next time make sure they keep you involved in the editing process, and you're there to sign the submission to the journal. I agree to an extent with POD- there are much worse things happening with journal articles in medicine. This isn't worth the fight, and you had some role in how it ended.

 

[jwk]

"b) The work you did do was half-assed"

Thats false. I respect your opinion, but the actual work that I did was anything but half-assed. I prob spent about 15-25 hours working on the project. He kept asking for corrections, and it was in the the middle of my OBGYN rotation and I just didnt have the energy to see it through. I figured my punishment would be losing an opportunity to publish. I didnt think that he would lift my exact thoughts. I mean, if he used my sources, or if he borrowed some sentences from me, it would be one thing. Dude, literally half of the paper is **** I wrote on my computer by myself. Thats plain wrong.

This isnt a lab btw. Its a clinical case report. I personally went down to patient records, to get info on this patient. I did my own self-directed research on the clinical topic. I synthesized the literature and expressed my thoughts. He took all this, published it and didnt give me credit. The opening 2 paragraphs of the DISCUSSION are MY paragraphs. Dude, this is intellectual property theft. And its un-ethical. Im kind of surprised youre defending this behavior.

I think half-assed is a perfect description. You didn't do what you said you would do, and, "agreed that he would give the project to someone else". End of story. Should he have published without listing you? Probably not. Should you whine and complain about it now? No. It's too late for that. Do you really think they're going to publish a retraction/correction just to list you as an addiitonal contributor? Hmmm, I doubt it. The editor will contact him, he will explain his side, and it goes nowhere.

You're both in the wrong. If you get your name added on at this point, the fact remains you still didn't finish the job you said you would do and someone else had to do it for you because you were "lazy". And of course you shouldn't get your name added on anything else that you didn't do.

 

[periopdoc]

During my surgery clerkship last year I began working on a case report with a surgeon at my school... I had completed a rough draft that was approx 1 page single spaced. I submitted that to the surgeon. He sent me back some corrections. I re-submitted a new version. He responded with more corrections and this time I was very lazy in getting back to him. Eventually we both agreed that he would give the project to someone else, but would let me know if it ever got published.

My standard for a full moon on the project would be a finalized published draft, so IMHO a rough draft that is one-paged, single-spaced with one set of corrections is just about half-assed. How long is the final product?

I say it isn't plagiarism, because you stated that you were doing the work with him then, by mutual agreement, turned the project over to him/ his associate(s) to complete. If you had any interest in being a part of the publication, you should have demonstrated it by working with them on subsequent drafts, even if your role was just ancillary review of them. At that point, a tertiary authorship could be expected. By authorship guidelines, you certainly did enough work that attribution would be appropriate, but I don't think that it is mandatory.

There is more of my own work published in this manner than there is published with attribution to me. So maybe I am just attenuated to it.

Now if you independently came up with this project, compiled the data, wrote the case report, then presented it to him for review and he subsequently used your report without attribution, it would be plagiarism.

If it was published then he subsequently copied it, it would be plagiarism.

However, if you were working on a project together and you backed out and he subsequently used the work you did together without attribution, then it isn't plagiarism. It is awfully close to the line, but I don't think it quite crosses it.

Do I think he was right? Am I defending his actions? Absolutely not, but in the real world, this happens all the time.

- pod

 

[periopdoc]

Separate from the issue of whether it is plagiarism or not (or even if his actions were right or wrong) is the question of your response.

Your response should be measured very carefully based on your future plans.

By no means should you accept false authorship of a paper.

If you are convinced that this is indeed plagiarism, and you are convinced that you can prove it, consider the possible consequences of doing so.

What will it profit you if you discredit this individual for his actions? What are the ramifications to your future career if you do. Consider the Hopkins ER intern who reported the Internal Medicine Program to the ACGME for work hours violations. Where did it get him? A long way from Baltimore.

In a perfectly ethical world, your path would be clear. This isn't a perfectly ethical world and if you already know that this person is willing to work un-ethically, consider what damage he can do to your career behind the scenes. A phone call here, a phone call there...

My advice is learn your lesson and move on.

- pod

 

[NOLA RISING]

I appreciate the dissenting opinions.

Although the tone of my posts may seem like Im out for blood, I really am not. I dont want to make a big deal out of this. I am a 4th year medical student who wrote a case summary for a small surgery journal. I understand its not the end of the world. I also understand that there are obvious lessons to be learned. That being said, literally 50% of the report were my thoughts, taken directly from an a report that I wrote and was not given credit for. That is plagiarism periop. Look up the definition. In your opinion would it have been different if it was 75%. How about 95%, or 2%. Is it different because Im a medical student? what if it was a resident? what about an attending.

 

[NOLA RISING]

and JWK- The work that I did do was obviously good enough that both the surgeon and the editing staff at the journal had no corrections.

 

[jwk]

and JWK- The work that I did do was obviously good enough that both the surgeon and the editing staff at the journal had no corrections.

My retraction/correction comment was with regard to authorship, not content.

You indicated that 50% of the report were your thoughts. Is that before or after it was edited twice and then you bailed?

 

[Bertelman]

Periop- Why did you highlight the words Surgeon and 1 page. I dont get the relevance. Hes a scumbag, regardless of what branch of medicine hes in.

You've got a lot to learn about medicine if you think that his choice of specialty has nothing to do with this outcome.

 

[periopdoc]

Periop- Why did you highlight the words Surgeon and 1 page. I dont get the relevance... And 1 page worth of work, which included interpreting literature, is a lot of work.

Ok let me try again.

During my surgery clerkship last year I began working on a case report with a surgeon at my school.

It has nothing to do with his branch of medicine. The key idea is that from the beginning, you were working on this with him. Whatever product was produced, it was the product of your team. Whatever contributions were made by the members of the team, the product belongs to the team. When you left the team, the team found (a) new member(s) and carried on without you. Was it inappropriate to leave you off the author list? You make a good case for that, although we only have your side of the story. Was it plagiarism to use the product you developed as a team? In spirit perhaps, by the letter of the law probably not. Does it happen every day in institutions across the country? You bet.


I have already answered why I highlighted one page and why I think that it is a half-assed effort. Both the quantity of the product you produced and your general attitude of not caring enough to finish the project says volumes about the amount of effort that you put into it. I am guilty of the same thing. I must have at least a half-dozen of these partially completed case reports that I lost interest in, or as I put it at the time "was too busy to complete."

In your opinion would it have been different if it was 75%. How about 95%, or 2%. Is it different because Im a medical student? what if it was a resident? ...

No it would not be different. The product belongs to the team. You left the team. His notoriety is another issue and has no bearing on whether I feel that this is in fact plagiarism or not.

- pod

 

[NOLA RISING]

Jwk- The corrections were small. The discussion, where I argued a point which I backed up with my own literature search was my own. I hardly think switching a "who" to a "whom" implies me having my hand held during this report

 

[periopdoc]

If he didnt want my contributions, he should not have included them.

When did he say that he did not want your contributions. By joint agreement you left the team, he didn't kick you off.

- pod

 

[jwk]

Jwk- The corrections were small. The discussion, where I argued a point which I backed up with my own literature search was my own. I hardly think switching a "who" to a "whom" implies me having my hand held during this report. Im not sure why you like this dudes behavior so much. Do you regularly take the thoughts of your subordinates and present them as your own? Is that your MO?

You really are missing the point.

Just about all of us that are responding think it was at least somewhat wrong to leave your name off. However, you steadfastly refuse to see your own culpability in the whole situation.

Man up, learn from this, try to finish what you start next time, and move on.

 

[michigangirl]

Agree with the folks above that say this fight ain't worth it. Yes, you should have been on the paper. Not sure why, if this is just a case report and you had already started the process, why you would "turn it over"-- key point here-- it's just a case report!!! If, as a medical student, you are willing to contact the editorial board of a journal and cry that you weren't on a paper that you wrote a one page rough draft of back in the day, it's your word against a surgical faculty member. maybe not career suicide, but not how you want to start your career, over a CASE REPORT.

At most institutions, case reports do not contribute significantly to advancement in the tenure track-- some people spend their whole academic career writing case report after case report, and for what? Yes, they are contributing to the greater general knowledge, but they learn it won't get you very far up the ladder. It's the original, peer-reviewed research that matters. And as periop doc said, we all have tons of case reports we started but then lost interest in. Says a lot about the reward of case reports. A case report won't make or break whether you match residency somewhere. And again, let's be honest-- you didn't follow through with the work.

And please don't agree to be second author on stuff you didn't do. Good way to get burned in a big way.

 

[NOLA RISING]

POD- You make some interesting points in regards to this being a team.

I know Im retracting previous comments now, but it wasnt as if I completely "bailed" on the project. The last conversation I had with the guy, in essence, was along the lines of, "I did X amount of work and I will not be doing more."

 

[periopdoc]

Im not sure why you like this dudes behavior so much. Do you regularly take the thoughts of your subordinates and present them as your own? Is that your MO?

Did you come here looking for a (somewhat) impartial opinion, or were you just looking for someone to commiserate with you about the big bad attending and his mistreatment of the poor medical student? No one condoned the attendings behavior, and JWK and I are just trying to give you an alternative opinion of your situation. No need to get accusatory towards the help.

- pod

 

[NOLA RISING]

Mich Girl- This really has nothing to do with career advancement.

I understand your guys opinion. Just imagine randomly searching pubmed, finding and article and seeing **** that you wrote. Literally half the article. You guys want me to see that and think to myself "gee, i really deserve this plagiarism."

 

[NOLA RISING]

POD- I posted because I wanted to see what people thought about having your name put on 2 paper for minimal work. He said to me "ill have you do something really small, so I can list you in the paper." I dont mean to be accusatory. I was just a little shocked that, atleast as i interpreted your comments, you would say that I didnt deserve to be on the paper and that you would defend his actions.

And isnt studentdoc for commiserating? Im not looking for you guys to tell me what to do. Im a grown up. I can make my own decisions. Just wanted to hear opinions.

 

[Bertelman]

I understand your guys opinion. Just imagine randomly searching pubmed, finding and article and seeing **** that you wrote. Literally half the article. You guys want me to see that and think to myself "gee, i really deserve this plagiarism."

Let's clear something up- you weren't "randomly searching Pubmed". You were looking for this paper, probably because you suspected something like this had happened.

 

[NOLA RISING]

Let's clear something up- you weren't "randomly searching Pubmed". You were looking for this paper, probably because you suspected something like this had happened.

obviously dude. Thanks for clearing it up

 

[Bertelman]

And isnt studentdoc for commiserating? Im not looking for you guys to tell me what to do. Im a grown up. I can make my own decisions. Just wanted to hear opinions.

But we've given a pretty unanimous opinion, and you keep attacking this guy's behavior.

You deserved to be on the first paper, but were left off, with your own actions leading to that omission by the surgeon. In the same breath, you are asking if it would be kosher to contribute minimal work and get your name planted on another paper.

Neither of those actions is honorable. You shouldn't correct one man's error with one of your own.

 

[NOLA RISING]

Fair enough. Thanks for the lively discussion guys.

 

[235750]

I'm not sure going to these lengths will do anything to further the OP's career.

It might be easier for the OP to do nothing, but I don't think it's the right thing to do.

Unethical physicians should be called out on their nonsense. I hope the OP does exactly that, but I'll be honest, I would probably choose the easier path too (ie do nothing)

 

[Orin]

The easiest thing to do is take the two midlevel authorships and keep your mouth shut.

The ethical thing to do would be to report him or discuss this with the internal ethics committee at your school. Most places have a hotline you can call to discuss these problems and help decide what needs to be escalated. I would strongly suggest looking into this option. Fortunately for you, this takes a while but once the ball gets rolling things generally get done.

The other option, depending on the journal, is to just get yourself added to the authorship. That is very hard. The editorial board would need to be involved, but it is possible. The surgeon and new first author can easily claim ignorance/miscommunication regarding the origin on the plagiarized section and ask the handling editor to correctly add you to the authors.

 

[Bertelman]

It might be easier for the OP to do nothing, but I don't think it's the right thing to do.

Unethical physicians should be called out on their nonsense. I hope the OP does exactly that, but I'll be honest, I would probably choose the easier path too (ie do nothing)

If you feel so strongly about calling him out, do so in a less public forum. Don't contact the publisher. Speak to your Dean. They should investigate, sharing the report with his Department head. He'll get a slap on the wrist. Lesson will be learned. Or not. You might feel better. Or maybe not.

There are many things in this world that seem like "the right thing to do." This scenario isn't exactly a John Grisham novel. "The right thing to do" would have been to complete the initial obligation of helping this surgeon compose a Case Report.

 

[Bertelman]

Fair enough. Thanks for the lively discussion guys.

Maybe Ill just resort to passive aggression. Or maybe I should have mommy write him a letter. This whole situation is a joke. I wish it happened before interviews so I had something to say to that question "tell me about a questionable ethical experience."

Mommy should have told you life isn't fair. That's what this is all about.

Don't let this eat you up. Vent the rest of the night, get all the hatred and snide remarks out of your system, then forget about it. You've interviewed, all your apps are in, thus this oversight will have absolutely no bearing on your Match or your career. Think Big Picture. This is a pixel on the screen.

You have nothing to gain from reporting this guy. If you feel like letting him know you were wronged, meet him in person, tell him you are disappointed, but you aren't interested in authorship of the other papers because you clearly don't have the time now to contribute equally to the work. If he has a heart, he will realize he was very wrong, apologize, and vow it won't happen again. My guess is he doesn't, won't, might, and it will.

If he doesn't appreciate your saga after a personal conversation, he won't understand it after the Ethics Board decides to investigate. And your name still won't be on that paper. The earlier you accept the fact that many people in this world are getting credit for work they did not honestly complete, the earlier you will reach a zen state of not f'ing caring. You control what you do, only what you do, and unless someone else's actions directly impede you from your success, it's probably not worth the fight. In this case, your actions will directly impede his personal success, thus I would expect a healthy fight back from him.

Then go watch The Social Network if you still think you have it so bad.

 

[periopdoc]

Whether you think I DESERVE to be on the paper is one thing. In reality, if i was a prick, and I went to the dean, or the journal, or the surgery chair, without a doubt it would be ruled plagiarism.

You are right, my opinion of whether you deserve to be on the paper or not is irrelevant. At least from your side of the story, it sounds like you have a good case that you do deserve to be on it. I would probably be pissed off if it happened to me. I wouldn't do it to someone else.

However, there is a wide gap between leaving someone off of a paper and plagiarism. I am not convinced that this is plagiarism, and a dean/ publisher etc might not be either.

Should you escalate the situation, you can assume that the attending involved will try to bury you to save himself and you can only hope that the dean sees it your way or mine. You would have to convince a whole lot of skeptical people that your viewpoint is the correct one.

If you have any aspirations of going into a surgical field, you could turn this to your advantage. Graciously decline the offer to be on a different paper, then at some point, discuss your future plans with him. "Oh you went to Stanford? I am considering pursuing a Surg/Onc fellowship there. Do you know anyone there who I could talk with?"

- pod

 

[periopdoc]

Maybe Ill just resort to passive aggression. Or maybe I should have mommy write him a letter. This whole situation is a joke. I wish it happened before interviews so I had something to say to that question "tell me about a questionable ethical experience."

Alternately, you could print up the "Change of Authorship Form" for the journal in question and show him how easy it is to change the publication. It seems like most journals have these forms available.

- pod

 

[NOLA RISING]

Bertleman- I guess you and I are on different pages. I already mentioned Im not pursuing through other routes. Youre right though, its a little therapeutic to vent.

 

[Bertelman]

Bertleman- I guess you and I are on different pages. I already mentioned Im not pursuing through other routes. Youre right though, its a little therapeutic to vent.

I never got the impression you were exploring those routes. Just the suggestions of other posters.

 

[nap$ter]

"b) The work you did do was half-assed"

Thats false. I respect your opinion, but the actual work that I did was anything but half-assed. I prob spent about 15-25 hours working on the project. He kept asking for corrections, and it was in the the middle of my OBGYN rotation and I just didnt have the energy to see it through. I figured my punishment would be losing an opportunity to publish. I didnt think that he would lift my exact thoughts. I mean, if he used my sources, or if he borrowed some sentences from me, it would be one thing. Dude, literally half of the paper is **** I wrote on my computer by myself. Thats plain wrong.

This isnt a lab btw. Its a clinical case report. I personally went down to patient records, to get info on this patient. I did my own self-directed research on the clinical topic. I synthesized the literature and expressed my thoughts. He took all this, published it and didnt give me credit. The opening 2 paragraphs of the DISCUSSION are MY paragraphs. Dude, this is intellectual property theft. And its un-ethical. Im kind of surprised youre defending this behavior.

I agree the PI shoulda let you on the paper.

But - I find your posts revealing of an attitude of entitlement and ignorance. Half-assed is an apt description of your participation, by your own admittance. You don't get the spoils in medicine if you don't finish the job, if you don't have the energy to see it through. Just cuz you tried, doesn't mean someone's gonna pat your little backside and say "g'job". 15-25hrs? really?

You fail to view things from your PI's perspective. Do you think you were doing better, faster work than he could have done independently? And BTW, your statement that you "synthesized the literature" is reflective of your attitude. I guarantee your attending is already familiar with most of the literature or knows enough to cut to the chase in a lit search and coulda got the whole thing done in a half-day.

Sounds to me like he went out of his way to work with you and offer you the opportunity to get published and mentor you along with his edits of your med-student write-ups, and you were just too lazy to get it done.

He shouldn't have taken your paragraphs word-for word.

You're both wrong. But he's not posting here. You don't get anything in medicine unless you finish the job and tie up the loose ends. Get over it, and best of luck to you.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Did you participate in the actual care of the patient? Was this a case he had laying around that he offered to you because he was too busy to get the project written up? Most case reports are comprised of the case description followed by a brief discussion of why the case is unique and worthy of publication. If you wrote up the clinical presentation portion, it is likely that you used his notes from the patient's medical records. It is also likely that it was his treatment of the patient or diagnosis of the patient that made the recognition of whatever was publication-worthy possible. Is it possible that you are attributing your case discussion of the events in the case to yourself when you really just summarized the events(from his notes in the chart)?
I agree that, if your side of the story is correct, you should have been included. However, is it also possible that all you did was to take his work and put it into word form, and then ditch the project without completing it? That was your choice. And I suspect that your writing was based entirely on a case of a patient that he diagnosed, treated, or otherwise cared for with minimal intellectual contribution to the care of the patient by you. He probably could have had the case written up in a minimal amount of time, but offered it to you as an opportunity for you to improve your experience and enhance your marketability for residency. He most likely laid out the outline of what the case was about and you built off of that outline. You probably were initially ambitious about it, but you were not a finisher. If he used your summary based on his work and his outline of ideas, is that really plagiarism?

In hindsight, he probably wishes he had included you and he probably should have. But I also suspect that you are taking a lot more credit for the case report than deserved if any of my assumptions(he provided the case and the outline) are correct.

The lesson here is to finish the project that you started. I am sure that he was pretty disappointed in you that you couldn't (didn't) complete what you said you would.

As others have stated, don't take credit for something you didn't do. Let this one go. There will be nothing gained from pursuing this any further. In fact, just posting it on here will probably cause it to become known and be to your detriment. Your name implies a location, so it would not take a rocket scientist to connect the dots.

 

[Metalblade]

Dude, regardless of whether it was plagiarism or not, don't try to take revenge. Don't report the PI or make a big deal out of it. That could really come back to hurt you in the future regardless of what field you go into. You don't know who he knows. I've seen situations where residents complained discretely about attendings, to find out later that they got a poor letter from the chair and other attendings for fellowships or jobs.

 

[periopdoc]

...and isnt studentdoc for commiserating? Im not looking for you guys to tell me what to do. Im a grown up. I can make my own decisions. Just wanted to hear opinions.

Totally. In fact that is one of the great purposes of the site and one of the reasons that I am a lifetime member/ contributor. I want this site to be available for anonymous venting for folks who need it during some of the most stressful times of their lives.

I tend not to get involved in commiserating type threads, partially because I have elected to forgo anonymity here, but it seemed like you were genuinely considering pursing this issue with admin/ethics committee/ publisher etc. If so I want you to realize that they have a lot more vested in this attending than they do in you and his statements may cary a lot more weight in their considerations. It is possible that, right or wrong, they will see things the way that I have presented here and you will be royally screwed.

Good luck.

- pod

 

[IveGotTwins]

I'm really not sure if it matters that we do or do not agree on the issue of plaigarism. The PI obviously thinks he did something wrong otherwise he would not have offered the under the table placement of the OP onto the other papers. For me, that speaks volumes to how the PI feels about the situation. If he felt completely within his rights to publish the paragraph regardless of the surrounding circumstances he would have said "hahaha, you left the 'team' so it's ours now, go away", but he didn't. He offered something unethical in return.

Do not accept your name on the olive branch papers. I was apart of a "team" doing some pedi-neurosurg case reports but I had to leave the team in the early stages the work for personal reasons. Three years later I hear through my dad who is high school friends with the PI we were working with that they were going to publish "my" case report. I had not even looked through patient records, done a lit search or anything for this paper. I had to call the PI and tell him to please remove me from the list of authors because I hadn't done any work. Why would I do this? What would I say in an interview when someone says "I read your case report about such and such...". I wouldn't have had a ****ing clue what the paper or the project was about. The PI was fine with it and remembered that I left the group and just forgot to take my name off. Thank God. Please do not accept it.

 

[Bertelman]

Forthcoming in the March A&A...

ECONOMICS, EDUCATION, AND POLICY
Publication Misrepresentation Among Anesthesiology Residency Applicants
Stephanie A. Neuman, Timothy R. Long, and Steven H. Rose
Anesth Analg 2011 112 (3)

"The authors found that 2.4% of the applications (13 of 532) included fraudulent publications, 6.6% of the applications with at least 1 publication (13 of 197) included ≥1 that was fraudulent, and 2.9% of all cited publications (15 of 522) were fraudulent. In addition, 0.9% of the applications (5 of 532) contained a citation error that, although not grossly fraudulent, could have favorably affected the applicant's competitiveness for a residency position."

 

[NOLA RISING]

Forthcoming in the March A&A...

ECONOMICS, EDUCATION, AND POLICY
Publication Misrepresentation Among Anesthesiology Residency Applicants
Stephanie A. Neuman, Timothy R. Long, and Steven H. Rose
Anesth Analg 2011 112 (3)

"The authors found that 2.4% of the applications (13 of 532) included fraudulent publications, 6.6% of the applications with at least 1 publication (13 of 197) included ≥1 that was fraudulent, and 2.9% of all cited publications (15 of 522) were fraudulent. In addition, 0.9% of the applications (5 of 532) contained a citation error that, although not grossly fraudulent, could have favorably affected the applicant's competitiveness for a residency position."

That takes some serious nerve to list a fraudulent publication. Do they mean that the applicant literally fabricated a paper?

 

[Bertelman]

That takes some serious nerve to list a fraudulent publication. Do they mean that the applicant literally fabricated a paper?

You can read the article online.

"Fraudulent publications were defined as nonexistent articles in verified journals or falsely reporting authorship of a verified article."​

 

[Gimlet]

You can read the article online.

"Fraudulent publications were defined as nonexistent articles in verified journals or falsely reporting authorship of a verified article."​

Wow, that takes some major cojones. Good thing I didn't have any publications listed on my CV when applying for residency -- removes all doubt!

 

[bullard]

Well, guys like Joachim Boldt and Scott Reuben were residents once.