Ethics question: Need some help/insight/advice/share experience!

[Pharm Wannabe]

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Hi fellow pre-pharms and pharms,

I have been confronted with an ethics question on a supplementary application form:
"A good friend of yours was recently devastated by the loss of both her parents. She returned to classes and seemed to be doing well. But during a recent examination, you noticed that she had "cheat-sheet" hidden under her sleeve, and she was using it to answer some of the questions. What, if anything, would you do?"

It may be true that there is no right or wrong answer; but I'm sure there is an "ideal" answer the admissions committee is looking for and "not so ideal" answers. Could anyone with experience with this type of question chime in on what the "ideal" answer likely be?

Thanks everyone!

 

[BBender716]

Correct answer, every time: you turn her ass in.

Now, you should put it more eloquently than that, but essentially you confront her, ask her to turn herself in, if she does, your job is done. If she doesn't, you let her know that it's your duty to turn her in and do so.

Brownie points: if questioned "but she's your good friend?!", you respond with, "well if she's pre-pharm, this is a bad precedent to set because she's really cheating future patients that will be going to her for meds. If she's having a tough time while a pharmacist, will she continue to use these 'short cuts' that may have more devastating effects?"

There ya go. Relate it to her profession ultimately.

 

[phathead]

Questions like this are designed to test your ethics, not the ethics of those on this board. What I may do would be different from what you would do which is different from what Bob would do. They are asking what YOU think, not what we think.

Plus, in a way we are all competing with one another, so all you're doing is possibly hurting yourself by asking us how to answer that question.

Not to be a dick, but I won't help you on this as you should be able to formulate your own viewpoint.

 

[PonderingChoice]

Not to be a dick, but I won't help you on this as you should be able to formulate your own viewpoint.

Seriously.

 

[joh0472]

Tell them what you would do. I really don't think many students would tell on their friend but if you honestly would then tell them that. If you don't know what you would do for sure let them know. I am sure they get bored with the textbook/canned responses. Personally I wouldn't tell on the student but I would talk with them and let them know if they have to cheat to get where they want to go they probably won't want to be there anymore. If you have to cheat to get something then it obviously is superficial.....or you are a lazy slob.

 

[johnconner]

.

 

[Mersades8711]

During an interview I was asked this question.... Fyi not telling only does a disservice to not only them, but their patients, and colleagues..... Ethically.... if you know of someone cheating you should tell the professor and they may act on it or not.... Also if the ethics council found out that your colleague was cheating and that you knew of it you would lose your license. My friend also said that they would tell their friend that they were going to tell the professor just so they have a heads up. Hope this helps!

 

[rxlea]

I busted my study group once for cheating on a chemistry test. They didn't like me that much afterwards but oh well- it's their head, not mine.

 

[richse]

Hello future physicians,

I realize that I have have crossed over from pre-pharmacy, but what better source of insight than people who have successfully gained admission to the most competitive professional schools?
I have been confronted with an ethics question on a supplementary application form:
"A good friend of yours was recently devastated by the loss of both her parents. She returned to classes and seemed to be doing well. But during a recent examination, you noticed that she had "cheat-sheet" hidden under her sleeve, and she was using it to answer some of the questions. What, if anything, would you do?"

It may be true that there is no right or wrong answer; but I'm sure there is an "ideal" answer the admissions committee is looking for and "not so ideal" answers. Could anyone with experience with this type of question chime in on what the "ideal" answer likely be?

Thanks everyone!

This might sound harsh, but if you don't know how to answer that question then I think the ethics part of the application is serving it's purpose. This isn't something you should answer based on what an adcom wants to hear or what someone tells you is an ideal answer. It's a question you should honestly think about and answer with what you would do.

 

[iknow]

Just be honest with your response. Of course you're gonna feel bad about turning her in since her parents died.. I would probably say that I would talk to her after class and try to suggest that she doesn't do that again because she's not only cheating the school but also herself. Remind her that she could get kicked out of school for this type of behavior and that if she needs help studying you can help her out...if she denies your help or doesn't take your advice and you see her cheating again then consider telling the faculty.

That's what I would do and what I would say I would do.

 

[naseuy]

Losing both your parents isn't an excuse for you to cheat. Cheating is cheating and if you're going to cheat, you're going to have to be prepared to face the consequences.

 

[phospho]

Hello future physicians,

I realize that I have have crossed over from pre-pharmacy, but what better source of insight than people who have successfully gained admission to the most competitive professional schools?
I have been confronted with an ethics question on a supplementary application form:
"A good friend of yours was recently devastated by the loss of both her parents. She returned to classes and seemed to be doing well. But during a recent examination, you noticed that she had "cheat-sheet" hidden under her sleeve, and she was using it to answer some of the questions. What, if anything, would you do?"

It may be true that there is no right or wrong answer; but I'm sure there is an "ideal" answer the admissions committee is looking for and "not so ideal" answers. Could anyone with experience with this type of question chime in on what the "ideal" answer likely be?

Thanks everyone!

same question 4 times in 4 different forums AND you only have 4 posts...

👎

 

[type b pharmD]

Id do what i would do for any cheater. Tell them i'm going to turn them in and warn them to stop cheating (or they'll get caught). T

This will stop them from cheating again and give them a little bit of a scare from the ethics committee. Dont have to feel bad either way cause: 1. they're not gonna get in trouble since the school cant prove it. and 2. they're not gonna cheat in the future.

 

[rphello]

I recognize this scenario. It's about lateral thinking. The question is not about cheating, it's about dedication to the profession, and how far one is willing to go to to achieve a major goal.

Here's a hint, ask a forensic examiner to check the brake line on her parent's car. When it comes to test scores, everyone and everything is fair game. Follow this thought process, and you're in...it's a lock.

Vigilantism is the standard answer. Think outside of the box! You seem to be a INTJ on the Myers Briggs, so you should be fine. Good luck!

 

[orthomyxo]

How about you answer it yourself you lazy ass

 

[Cybii]

Hello future physicians,

I realize that I have have crossed over from pre-pharmacy, but what better source of insight than people who have successfully gained admission to the most competitive professional schools?
I have been confronted with an ethics question on a supplementary application form:
"A good friend of yours was recently devastated by the loss of both her parents. She returned to classes and seemed to be doing well. But during a recent examination, you noticed that she had "cheat-sheet" hidden under her sleeve, and she was using it to answer some of the questions. What, if anything, would you do?"

It may be true that there is no right or wrong answer; but I'm sure there is an "ideal" answer the admissions committee is looking for and "not so ideal" answers. Could anyone with experience with this type of question chime in on what the "ideal" answer likely be?

Thanks everyone!

I find it kinda ironic that you're asking for help on your secondary app that deals with the ethics of cheating. Isn't getting the answer off a forum considered cheating too? So, judging by your actions, the correct answer for you would be "nothing is wrong with that"! 🙄

 

[sosoo]

you should say you'll ask the professor in regards to
this matter. what the school policies are towards cheating?
if there is zero tolerance. then that is what you'll abide by.
its not your ethical opinions that count. its about school
policies. and you cant go wrong abiding by it.

 

[Quiksilver]

as much as I admire your intuitiveness and resourcefulness, but people that answer to this question to the fullest are doing the same thing that the question is asking. You see this question is a thought provoking independent question much like one that a person would see on a test. The people that answer this thread are the cheatsheet and the OP is the person who has the cheat sheet.
and I am the person that has to make the choice if it is ethical or not.
Its kind of ironic in a way.

In other words, a lot of us on here, we can give advice but we should not give you an answer you can use. Its like helping students with homework. This would be unfair for other potential applicants.

I am sure others feel differently.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I don't think it's a bad thing to ask other people what they'd do. You may hear something that makes you change your perspective. However, asking people on this board might not be such a good idea, since it can be construed as being lazy.

(Which I would agree, if you were asking why people want to be pharmacists. If you can't answer that, you shouldn't be here.)

Anyway, I'd ask friends, relatives, career counselors, maybe even a professor or two (if you're close to one and they'd know you were asking about pharmacy school potential questions).

 

[MikeyLu2010]

post it on the forum, to find out what the right thing to do is.

 

[Namishin]

Tell them tattle telling is for snitches and you don't roll like that.

 

[johnconner]

as much as I admire your intuitiveness and resourcefulness, but people that answer to this question to the fullest are doing the same thing that the question is asking. You see this question is a thought provoking independent question much like one that a person would see on a test. The people that answer this thread are the cheatsheet and the OP is the person who has the cheat sheet.
and I am the person that has to make the choice if it is ethical or not.
Its kind of ironic in a way.

In other words, a lot of us on here, we can give advice but we should not give you an answer you can use. Its like helping students with homework. This would be unfair for other potential applicants.

I am sure others feel differently.

Finally! Someone "gets it". Why not send in the rest of the questions on the application so we can provide all the best answers?

 

[desmoulins45179]

Tell them tattle telling is for snitches and you don't roll like that.

I'd rather be a snitch than a liar.

 

[XZeRO]

There are 2 issues here that need to be addressed: 1. cheating on the exam. 2. stress of education

I would confront her about it and provide any level of support necessary to get her back on her feet per se. Because she is using a cheat-sheet, it shows that she is not prepared for the exam or struggling with the material. So, I would help her with studying, catching up on the class materials, etc. Secondly, I would warn her that cheating is not fair to anyone in the class and that if it were to happen again it is something that will not be kept secret.

There's probably more issues here that need to be addressed, such as the loss of her parents. But it was stated in the passage that she seemed to be doing well. Nonetheless, I'm sure this issue is something that needs help adjusting to and I would be there to offer any support necessary.

Your thoughts?

 

[IrishRxMan]

Seeing as you haven't probably had to take an ethics class yet, you can't ask anyone about it really. You have to answer it on your own. They don't make the situation black and white for a reason. That's because life is not black and white. But, as a pharmacist, you will have to stake both your license and life on ethical decisions every day. You probably know the answer. I would suggest that you answer this with your own personal viewpoint and see where it gets you.

 

[Legion]

that is a dump question. The key word is ethics. How about this scenario. A surgeon is drunk because he lost his wife. Would you let him operate on you? Everyone has reasons. The dude should be reported. I did it many times and will do it again.😀😀😀😀😀

 

[phathead]

I guess I wasn't being a dick after all. Thanks guys!

 

[busyizzy]

Tell them tattle telling is for snitches and you don't roll like that.

You might as well add on that you haven't quite left elementary school yet.

 

[phathead]

You might as well add on that you haven't quite left elementary school yet.

I dunno, did they budge in line too?

 

[delano2000]

I busted my study group once for cheating on a chemistry test. They didn't like me that much afterwards but oh well- it's their head, not mine.

😱 Just like that lol.

 

[rxlea]

😱 Just like that lol.

Hell yeah...some girl from the section before came into our study room (I didn't even know who the hell she was) that took the test just prior and proceeded to draw a structure on the board and in less than two minutes tell us all what was on the test. I immediately tried to find the professor- couldn't find him- only saw him when he came into to administer the exam. Immediately after the exam, I informed him of what happened. Apparently, nobody else (including others she did the same thing with) never came forward. We all lost points (including myself which I completely accepted) because of the answers she gave us. I WILL NOT stand for cheating. I don't care who it is or what sob story there is. There are plenty of people that bust their ass and have problems in their life and still get by without cheating. That is one area I will not compromise on.

 

[Namishin]

I'd rather be a snitch than a liar.

Relax, I was just having some fun with the OP 😎

 

[IrishRxMan]

Hell yeah...some girl from the section before came into our study room (I didn't even know who the hell she was) that took the test just prior and proceeded to draw a structure on the board and in less than two minutes tell us all what was on the test. I immediately tried to find the professor- couldn't find him- only saw him when he came into to administer the exam. Immediately after the exam, I informed him of what happened. Apparently, nobody else (including others she did the same thing with) never came forward. We all lost points (including myself which I completely accepted) because of the answers she gave us. I WILL NOT stand for cheating. I don't care who it is or what sob story there is. There are plenty of people that bust their ass and have problems in their life and still get by without cheating. That is one area I will not compromise on.

Life is crappy for everyone at some point. Some have more crappy times than others, but it's just life. You have to learn to deal with it because your life goes on regardless of what happens externally to you. The successful ones are those that can rise above the pile of crap dumped on them by whatever or whomever and still achieve the goals they set out for themselves.

 

[holymolys]

i'd say a lot of the "snitches" are actually liars, unless its a bunch of *******s that are cheating... but most of the time the scenarios is about a close friend who's parents died before the some test (school interviews has already claimed thousands lol), blah blah blah... its your call really, shoot your best friend in the face, or shoot yourself in the face by saying you won't adhere to the school code

 

[PharmasaurusRx]

My personal opinion: talk to the professor after the test.

Here's why:

The reason why some of us would hesitate "tattling" on our good friend is because we don't want them to suffer through the repercussions because we ultimately do care about them. The absolute worst case scenario would be for the professor to fail the student (either the test, the class, or completely get kicked out of school). But, for the professor to fail the student, he or she would have to have some pretty hard evidence (i.e. seeing and obtaining the actual cheat sheet used). I say this because if the cheating student had a good enough lawyer, a simple "I was told that Joe Smith cheated" from the prof probably wouldn't stand up. By telling the professor after the test, your cheater friend is able to get away with the evidence, BUT there will still be consequences. While relaying what you saw to your professor, include the loss of your friend's parents and say that you're worried about him/her. Garnering sympathy from the professor will hopefully remind them that stress or depression can lead to bad decisions in desperate situations. The professor at this point should confront the student about the "anonymous" tip. To make things right, your prof should make the student take the test again (monitored more closely, of course). If your friend has a conscience, he'll be grateful that the professor isn't immediately kicking him out and accept the "punishment," and he'll be too scared to ever try to cheat again. In addition, this is an opportunity for the professor to open the line of communication for the student to talk about his/her parents' deaths.

This would be the ideal situation, of course, and once you tell the professor what you saw, it's really out of your hands. But, based on my experience with professors, I've seen that most of them do have a heart. I actually had a friend (not a "friend"....it really wasn't me) that got caught cheating (the professor saw her glance at another person's test) and he sat her down and had a really personal conversation with her. She ended up getting some points taken away and told me that she was way too scared to every try to cheat again.

 

[PharmDman3901]

Oh for F*&^'s sake. This is a professional school application, formulate your own answer like everybody else did.
As to cheating in school, you better hope to god your not in school with my because I will personally drag your sorry a*& to the dean, and hand him your crib sheet. Friend or not, I do not tolerate cheating. This is not some undergrad, basket weaving class. The information you do or do not learn could save or kill someone. God in Heaven have some backbone, and If your are prone to cheating do us all a favor and get the hell out of this profession now!

 

[desertraichu]

hmmm, someone using answers from an outside source instead of forming their own answer? this ethics forum question on cheating is a giant cheat lol. I'm kidding. I think interviewers don't want a mechanical response, but want to understand you as a person and yeah, probably no wrong answer, so just be sincere.

 

[strivingp]

This forum is to help others, if you're not going to help or say **** like you're cheating for asking this question, then just don't respond. It's no need for people to be dicks, and I bet a lot of you saying this crap have cheated, lied or stole at least once in their lifetime.

On to the question at hand; I don't think that there are right or wrong answers to this question. I think that the interviewer wants to gauge your responce and your thinking process. I got accepted to UC and they asked me a similar question during my interview. I was honest and said that I wouldn't tell on my friend if I caught them cheating for the first time. I said that there were obvious factors that caused them to cheat and that a death in the family sometimes causes people to act out of the norm. I said that I would talk to them and inform them that they are doing a disservice to themselves and to their future patients for cheating and that I would tell the professor if I saw them cheating again. Hope this helped.

 

[ShadowRX]

Hi fellow pre-pharms and pharms,

I have been confronted with an ethics question on a supplementary application form:
"A good friend of yours was recently devastated by the loss of both her parents. She returned to classes and seemed to be doing well. But during a recent examination, you noticed that she had "cheat-sheet" hidden under her sleeve, and she was using it to answer some of the questions. What, if anything, would you do?"

It may be true that there is no right or wrong answer; but I'm sure there is an "ideal" answer the admissions committee is looking for and "not so ideal" answers. Could anyone with experience with this type of question chime in on what the "ideal" answer likely be?

Thanks everyone!

This is an ethics dilemma all its own.

 

[renetto]

Not to be a dick, but I won't help you on this as you should be able to formulate your own viewpoint.

I can't stand people like you, what's wrong with wanting to understand different points of view? How can you say you like shrimp when you only eat catfish?

Ugh, you're so frustrating.

EDIT: Also, all of you saying "Tell the professor" or "tell the dean" are *****s. YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT SHE HAD A CHEAT SHEET! Therefore, you'll be hurting YOURSELF in process of trying to satisfy an interviewer.