ETS/GRE Testing Accomodations for ADD/ADHD

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LVT2DVM

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Has anyone successfully received testing accommodations with ADD/ADHD for taking the GRE? What type of accommodation(s) were you allowed and what if any tips would you have for other persons in this situation?

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I did not receive any special treatment, nor did I find it needed. 🙂
 
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If I didn't get in this year, I was going to look into some accomadations. My quant was good, my verbal sucked. Yet, every single practice GRE I take on paper, I score ~150 points higher, at minimum. I can not do reading comp on computer screen. It has to be on paper for me. As an accomplished educator, I know that people learn and do well in different ways.

Sorry to the thousands of people that can do fine on the GRE that way (on a computer) I am in no way distespecting you, but us older applicants (who didn't own cell phones at theage of 15) are at a disadvatnage with the CAT format.

So to the person who said they had 'no problem' .....that's nice. Yipiee for you. I'msorry, but we all aren't as savvy as the younger generation, period. I think the CAT does have disadvantages to older people (I'm 35).


It is my opinion, only. But as I type this from my iPhone,I find that too a challenge. But I know I won't have a problem with focusl skills, or my bedside manner. Will you????
 
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^^^Caninerepro is an old, old guy.

They need lots of documentation, is that the link that DVMorBust posted? If I were taking it again, I would likely get a longer time to do the analytical writing. Aside from that I'm not sure what accommodations they'll make. Probably ones involving the time constraints. So more time on verbal/quant too.
 
The link already posted has a lot of info - there is a ton of documentation to do, but if it helps your score then it's probably worth a shot.

Philo, I know you already got in, but here's what they say about the paper test in case anyone else was wondering:

May I request a paper-based format for a test that is usually given only in computer-based format?
Yes, you may request a paper format as an accommodation, but you must have a documented disability (not a preference) that supports a legitimate need for a paper format. You will need to submit documentation for review that meets ETS's Documentation Criteria.
 
Thanks for the info, I know I probably wouldn't earn an accomadation. But in that short sentence of 'I didn't have a problem....' more or less, you're picking on my buddy LVT2DVM in the sense of having absolutely nothing constrctive to say. Simply stating that you don't have a problem with the way you do on the GRE, without any further supportive information seems completely useless, other than a 'stab' to someone who may. Why even bother to post? I'm sorry, probably being too hypersensitive here....
 
Speaking of accommodations, how do you think that works in vet school? I am allowed to have extended time and a quiet, distraction-free environment. Since classes are usually back-to-back, extended time might be difficult. For those of you with documented disabilities how do you think vet school will accommodate us?

Sorry for the hijack 😉
 
Hi all, new here, but I offer my opinion as a second year vet student...

I don't necessarily agree with professional students being allowed to receive "special accommodations." If you are not able to take a test in a normal room with other test-takers and distractions, how do you expect to be able to make rapid life or death decisions in a clinic that will have tons of noises/distractions going on that you can't control? Or during 4th year, will you tell a clinician you need to go sit in a room by yourself for a while to think when they ask you a question?? What if you are doing surgery and you can't focus and start to think about other things?

I am not saying these people are not as intelligent as the others in school, but just don't see how these circumstances are conducive with a career in clinical medicine.

That said -- the people who have those types of needs at our school come in early to take the test (i.e. come in at 7:30am when the test starts at 8am) and take it in a conference room.

As another side note, several of the students that we lost last semester were ones who has these special circumstances -- don't know if it's a correlation - but something to think about.
 
It seems to me like taking a long, repetitive written test is pretty different from being in a clinical situation. There is a big difference between getting distracted during a boring test than getting distracted during a surgery, a conversation, or an emergency. Also, people applying to vet school presumably have experience in clinical situations and can tell if / how their ADD affects that kind of situation.

I don't have ADD so please correct me if the above is wrong, but I think it's unfair to say "people whose ADD makes it hard for them to take long tests means they shouldn't be vets." I know that's not exactly what you were saying, but that is how it sounded.
 
Not all tests are repetitive (granted some are long -- so I will give you that). Many are case-based and we have even had exams where you are asked questions by the professor directly and you have to answer outloud (with live animals present and lab technicians there to distract you and make noise). I just wonder how these conditions work in these situations...

I DO agree that there is a big difference with getting distracted during a test and getting distracted during clinical situations -- on a test - your grade may suffer -- in real life -- an animal/client may suffer - Which is why we are being trained to be doctors and think like doctors. I don't think it is fair to the person who has had accommodations made to them all through vet school of being in a nice quiet place to think and then all of the sudden not having that in their 4th year -- they weren't trained to think like that. They should have time to become used to how they will be expected to think/function come clinic time. Giving them the extra time/accommodations during the first few years of school doesn't seem to be the way to do it.

Of course I am not saying they shouldn't be vets (hence my little disclaimer), but this is just something that has come up frequently in my class.

Yes, I realize many a vets have graduated before me with these circumstances - and became great doctors, but I just offer my opinion and wonder if they struggled when it came time where "real life" won't allow you peace and quiet and a little extra time.
 
All learning disabilities are different, so making general statements about people who utilize "accommodations" makes you look ignorant. Often people with specific learning disabilities (ADD/ADHD/Dyslexia/ Dyscalculia) excel when exposed to applied problem-based learning compared to a didatic traditional-based style of learning. So I doubt clinical rotations will be a problem.


For example, I have a form of dyslexia that makes multiple choice questions difficult for me. As a practicing veterinarian am I going to be presented with 4 options and four answers? Obviously not. Therefore, my extended time accommodation does not reflect my ability to deal with life or death situations.

I know plenty of wonderful test takers that finish early and make high grades, however these same people are dangerous around animals because they lack the common sense required to keep themselves safe. What about those individuals that will fail as practicing veterinarians because they have horrible people skills? These traits are NOT conducive with a career in clinical medicine and should be the issues that people focus on.

Suggesting that there is a correlation between having a learning disability and leaving vet school is a little misguided. You don't know unequvically that those students didn't have other factors attributing to their release.
 
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Hey, I appear ignorant, you can't spell -- the world is doomed to have terrible vets.

As a practicing veterinarian, you will be presented with 4 (or 5 or 6 or 10) different choices for a diagnosis/treatment/drug choice/etc -- and you have to pick the right one...

I do agree that people with horrible people skills will have some issues with being in clinical practice as well, I never said they wouldn't.

And I was simply stating the situation at my school -- these were let go because of poor grades. This I know for a fact. I didn't say that their learning disability caused this, just that it was a coincidence.
 
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I can't speak for others with ADHD or learning disabilities, but for me my biggest problem in testing situations is short answer/essay type questions. With a short answer or essay I will have problems properly communicating all of the points that I wish to make, and the result is that to make sure that the writing is not terribly disorganized and muddled takes a considerable amount of time - which is not usually afforded in tests. I write, erase, write again, erase again, write again, etc. The reason for this is actually that all of my best thinking is done "on the fly" rather than being able to plan out the essay, so it doesn't really hurt me in that sort of emergency situation or anything like that. I don't have the executive functioning necessary to be able to look at a prompt and plan out what I'm going to write, so I just start writing and even though I am furiously writing the whole time, I'm erasing a bunch so it ends up taking me really, really long.

Ultimately I agree with your point, that all of that disorganization may make me a bit unsuited for clinical work (mostly because I wouldn't enjoy it and would burn out quickly, not that I wouldn't be capable) but it works really well for me in a research environment. There is more to vet med than just being a clinical vet, you know? 😉
 
also, for things like ADD/ ADHD, the constant change in a clinic isn't a drawback. You are doing A for a minute, when B intrudes, and then on to c, bounce back to A for a minute, etc-- distractability can be a bonus. Plus applied things tend to just be *cool* and suck you in.

In a test taking situation this isn't so good- you read the first part of the question, someone coughs, the person three seats over and two behind you taps their foot twice, you re-read the first part of the question. the proctor walks past, and the tempo of their footsteps reminds you of... re-re-read the first question...

Different skills.
 
There should be special accomodations for people with such disabilities. I do not have ADD/ADHD myself but I am aware of the many distractions in testing centers.

I have taken the GRE only twice. Each time my exam was at 8 am <~bummer, and I would always have difficulty falling asleep the night before...When I have little sleep, I am VERY sensitive to sound. Unfortunately everyone starts the essay portion at different times...since some read through the instructions while others skip right to the test etc... Clicking of the keys= Nails on a chalkboard when I have little/no sleep. They actually provided noise canceling headphones...which you may want to look into...BUT i still heard clicking and it was distracting. Another issue is Testing Centers offer various exams, that start at varying times and therefore people are going in and out of the room etc...the sound of the door clicking would also make me cringe.

However, when taking practice GRE exams through Kaplan, in my noisy household environment I scored 1400-1600 each time.

*Some people have written about how it would be difficult for someone with ADD/ADHD to function in a clinical setting, we have two vet techs with this who seem to function just fine. You could always close your office door to do a quick calculation etc....and no I don't think those with ADD/ADHD would have a difficult time making a decision in a life or death situation....Our Fight or Flight kicks in and as animal lovers we all put up the fight 😉 Not all individuals with a DVM have to practice in a clinical setting anyway, so if one's disability were to get in the way there are plenty of other options.
 
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I will be the first one to tell you that distractions during a test suck! I always notice who is getting up and down to ask questions or turn in their test. Winter time/midterm time is especially bad with the symphony of coughs and sneezes -- but you just deal with it.

I disagree that distractability (not sure if that is even a word) is good in a clinical setting. If you are monitoring anesthesia and close the APL valve, you better remember to open it back up! If you have a client waiting for you in the exam room and move on to a couple of different things they might not appreciate the extra time... obviously I could go on. It IS good to be able to multitask (i.e. answer a quick question for a tech while in surgery), but ultimately you need to be focused on the task at hand.

Focusing on a test question vs. focusing in an appointment are the same skill in my mind --> focusing.

I agree with you guys that one of the great things about vet med is that there is so much to do with it, but I can't ignore the fact that even if you want to go into research or some other non-clinical aspect, you still have to do a clinical year in school and I feel that we are doing a disservice to these people in the first 3 years -- then leaving them high and dry 4th year when it is more difficult to make accommodations for their disabilities. Obviously these people are the material of great vets, but their 4th year grades might not show it.

I know things will never change -- but I'm just sayin'

Sorry to (sorta) hijack this thread guys. I think I'm done! But it has been a nice distraction (appropriate I suppose, since this is the focus of our talk) from studying Clin Path! 😉
 
As someone with pretty severe ADHD, I want to clear up a misconception. It is not that people with ADD/ADHD do not pay attention so much as they can't filter out anything. In other words, we pay attention to just about EVERYTHING. We hyper-focus. So when something is very interesting, challenging, or pumps up the adrenaline, we are able to focus intensely. Thus a life or death clinical situation would likely cause someone with ADHD to perform superbly, with maximum focus. It is the tedious, boring, routine things that we tend to have more problems with because they are not holding onto our attention any more or less than any number of other boring tedious things.

What I have problems with is the easier things. So I make it a practice to ALWAYS ask someone else to double check my medication calculations, etc. before giving an injection (but I think everyone should do that, anyway, if it is a potentially dangerous injection). So to use your example, if I know that routine checks of anesthesia equipment might escape my focus, I solve that by training myself to always go through a checklist or else to ask someone to double check me. In other words, I try to set up a systematic approach to prevent mistakes. Everyone does this, I just might have to be a bit more consciously aware of the need. I will still find a way to insure the patient safety.

I have trouble maintaining interest in subjects that bore me. But give me something difficult or interesting, and I will focus in on it like mad. I love to work through mechanisms, but hate to do rote memorization.

If you know someone with ADD, you might have noticed that they tend to over-research something they are interested in. That's hyper-focus.

As for the accomodations, I think it would have been nice to be able to take my anatomy lab practicals without a strict time limit of something like 30 seconds per station, and my performance on something like that does falter. But I did not want to ask for accomodations. That is not to say it would be wrong to have done so, any more than it would be wrong for someone with 20/200 vision to ask to wear eye-glasses. But I do think that proper management of ADD includes making behavioral changes and including scheduling prompts, etc. +/- medication, depending on the severity.

I schedule study time and stick to it, and I find it helps IMMENSELY to stay at school until I am finished studying for the day. If I come home, you better believe I find a million and one things to take me off course. By creating a routine and sticking to it (i.e. a behavioral change), I am able to maintain my focus on the more boring activities. My grades were excellent last semester, so I think it is working.

The rest of the world is not necessarily going to care that executive function tasks are harder for us. So it is incumbent upon the person with ADD to figure out ways to focus when necessary. Most of the time, that can be achieved without accomodations. But if I felt I needed 1 minute instead of 30 seconds, I would feel no shame in asking for that. I just prefer to figure out how to do it in 30 seconds.

I guess it's more like wanting to run a marathon, but being out of shape. It's not that I cannot ever be capable of running a marathon, but I may need to train myself to run a mile first, then 5 miles, then ten, etc. so as not to hurt myself. Some runners are fitter than others and will get to that marathon distance without having to train as hard as others. That does NOT mean the ones who are not as naturally athletic cannot someday run a marathon, it just might take them a bit more training and consistency to get there. And when they do, they might be even faster than you.

There is NOT a one-size-fits-all solution. Being able to ID some obscure muscle is miles apart from being able to take a history and put together the pieces of a challenging diagnostic puzzle. THAT holds my focus, so I do not think I will be hampered by my ADHD come clinics. Needing and asking for a quiet room to take the GRE has absolutely NO relation to how well one can perform in vet school. If it is what you need to perform to your ability, then that is no different than letting the person with bad vision wear glasses. I don't hear anyone making the argument that we should force myopic people to perform with their natural vision because they might someday need to do surgery and not be able to find their glasses.
 
I schedule study time and stick to it, and I find it helps IMMENSELY to stay at school until I am finished studying for the day. If I come home, you better believe I find a million and one things to take me off course. By creating a routine and sticking to it (i.e. a behavioral change), I am able to maintain my focus on the more boring activities. My grades were excellent last semester, so I think it is working.

Yes this is a big thing for me too. My SO often wonders why I will stay on campus for hours and hours, even after my actual work that needs to be done there is done and I am just doing homework that I could do here. He doesn't seem to "get" that I have real problems trying to do it at home with all the distractions. Works for me too, cause I definitely managed a 4.0 last quarter (my first since 3rd grade, I think). 😎

The rest of the world is not necessarily going to care that executive function tasks are harder for us. So it is incumbent upon the person with ADD to figure out ways to focus when necessary. Most of the time, that can be achieved without accomodations. But if I felt I needed 1 minute instead of 30 seconds, I would feel no shame in asking for that. I just prefer to figure out how to do it in 30 seconds.

I also agree with this. I was advised to seek accommodations after my diagnosis, but I haven't because I honestly feel like I should be able to do it without them. I did start taking medication, though, which I think does help. Requesting accommodations probably would have gotten me an A rather than an A- in a class my first quarter here, but if anyone thinks that the difference between an A and an A- (93% cutoff) is the difference between potentially being a capable vet or a horrible one, well...I don't know what to say then!
 
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LVT2DVM, I think its worth looking into. I took the GRE twice and scored in the 48% and 35% percentile in the quantitive section. So I looked into getting extra time because I am terribly slow at math. I have ADHD, among other things, and I can't do math problems in my head because I can't mentally "hold" on to the information. I usually have to copy the problem down on paper and work it out by hand. Anyways, I took calculus as an undergrad and I was granted double-time to complete exams. Since I had "used" special accommodations at my school within the past year, the GRE paperwork was super easy. I went to the school disability office and had them help me with the GRE forms. The maximum ETS would allow for ADHD was 50% more time and I received my approval almost immediately. I retook the test and scored in the 78% percentile in the quantitive section. So, LVT2DVM, if applicable I would ask your school for advice. If you don't have your disability documentation on file with them, its more paperwork for you but I think it might be worth it.

Kittygirl81, I really REALLY hate it when people make assumptions or complain about people with ADHD/learning disabilities getting special accommodations. Asking for extended testing time may allow a person to improve their grades, yeah well so what. NEWS FLASH. Grades and stupid paper exams have nothing to do with being a good veterinarian. Are you so ignorant that you think taking a written exam is the same thing as having a conversation with a clinician or client?

Or during 4th year, will you tell a clinician you need to go sit in a room by yourself for a while to think when they ask you a question?? What if you are doing surgery and you can't focus and start to think about other things?

Really?? REALLY!?!

Were you even thinking when you wrote that?!?! Well I admit that I can't filter information well. Its as simple as this: If people are gossiping during a surgery, yeah I might find that distracting and tell them to shut up. If a clinician asks me a question and I didn't understand it because we were interrupted, well gee, I might just ask them to repeat it.

Focusing on a test question vs. focusing in an appointment are the same skill in my mind --> focusing.

I think your mind needs a little more exercise, and lets just leave it at that.
 
Kittygirl81, I really REALLY hate it when people make assumptions or complain about people with ADHD/learning disabilities getting special accommodations. Asking for extended testing time may allow a person to improve their grades, yeah well so what. NEWS FLASH. Grades and stupid paper exams have nothing to do with being a good veterinarian. Are you so ignorant that you think taking a written exam is the same thing as having a conversation with a clinician or client?

I don't know about being a "good veterinarian" but they sure seem to have a lot to do with becoming a veterinarian. You cant argue that those "grades and stupid paper exams" aren't a huge part of the admissions process for getting into vet school, and come graduation that stupid paper exam called the NAVLE will have a lot to do with ones ability to become a veterinarian(good or bad).
 
Focusing on a test question vs. focusing in an appointment are the same skill in my mind --> focusing.

My sister has a Masters in Psychology and so knows a little more about the human psyche than I do. She happened to be in the room while I was reading this thread and many of your comments have made her start sputtering with annoyance. She says that focusing is NOT the same in these situations, especially for a person with ADD/ADHD, but even for people with out it. Also that many times, clinical situations would be stimulating enough by themselves to keep some people with learning disabilities focused enough to do just fine. Choosing multiple diagnoses is NOT the same as having to make a choice with multiple choice answers for anybody, including those with dyslexia. She says you're really oversimplifying things here, as far as how the brain works, and sort of giving short shrift to people with disabilities.

Also, from me, what's with all the grammar and spelling snark? If you're making a good point, you shouldn't need to punctuate by pointing out what a bad speller someone else is. Your point should stand for itself. Just sayin.
 
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Let me start by posting that I don't want to offend anyone. We ALL have our own challenges and need to do what's best for us to succeed. That said, I don't think there's anyone who doesn't get distracted when the person at the back of the class starts sneezing or someone gets up or walks by. As for questions on the GRE, I didn't finish the math portion (I was shy by 4 or 5 problems) because I worked through problems on paper and my arithmetic just wasn't fast enough. I'm sure that many people would benefit from extended exam time so it does seem like an advantage to have more time than others in the class. Again, I would absolutely agree that you have to do whatever you can to succeed, I just wonder how you can really level the playing field.
 
When I have little sleep, I am VERY sensitive to sound.

Me too...and when I took the GRE, there was CONSTRUCTION going on in the building next to the test center😱😡😡😡
 
I don't know about being a "good veterinarian" but they sure seem to have a lot to do with becoming a veterinarian. You cant argue that those "grades and stupid paper exams" aren't a huge part of the admissions process for getting into vet school, and come graduation that stupid paper exam called the NAVLE will have a lot to do with ones ability to become a veterinarian(good or bad).

NAVLE is CAT also.
 
Hey guys I was not at all slamming people when I said I did not need accommodations on the GRE. I myself -- an old guy -- have ADD, did not know it for many years, thus my delayed education. 🙂 What I was saying about taking the GRE was I personally did not find the rather barren and sparse room I took the test in was a distraction to me, nor were the three or four other people in the room with me at the time. I just brought a set of foam ear plugs (always have a few with me) and put them in before I began the test to filter out outside influences. I also made sure to take my vyvanse b4 I got there.

As for setting up tests for ADD students, I myself have helped set up separate tests, without the infernal 60 second buzzer, in both of the anatomy classes I t/a -- one for undergrads and one for grad students. I think that if this helps them out, great! How hard is it to simply let them in an hour or so early so that they can have the time they need, if it is for a documented cause? Me I still cannot bring myself to ask for the accommodations, but that is just me, and not the fault of the professors here. Nor do I think any differently about those who find it works for them. ADD has no detrimental factor on IQ level, although I actually get the feeling it is MORE prevalent in higher intelligence individuals than the general population.

Now, I am still fairly new to this whole knowing I have ADD thing, diagnosed about a year and a half ago. Nor do I think I have an extremely severe case of it. So, maybe I should start taking more advantage of the available opportunities. Anyhow, no I did not mean to imply it was bad to ask for accomodations, I actually tried hard NOT to imply that. Sorry.🙁
 
That said, I don't think there's anyone who doesn't get distracted when the person at the back of the class starts sneezing or someone gets up or walks by.

As I said, I don't want to speak for others, but for me, I don't need those things going on to get distracted, because my mind takes csre of that part all on its own. In fact, it's even worse for me in a completely silent environment. My brain will start to take off and there's no telling where it will go! At least if someone coughs or gets up and walks by, it's pulled back to the present momentarily and I might be able to refocus. 🙄

That said, a lot of people feel the way you do about ADHD. Hell, I used to before I was diagnosed. But it mostly just shows that you don't really understand it. "Everyone gets distracted sometimes" is right, but it's inaccurate to compare that with clinical ADHD.

Again, I would absolutely agree that you have to do whatever you can to succeed, I just wonder how you can really level the playing field.

The "playing field" will never be completely "level" imo. Different people have different abilities. Maybe if you have that much trouble with math (the questions are pretty simple for a college graduate), you should look into getting some outside help for it. For me, math is super easy, even in a standardized test situation. I finished both the GRE math and GRE verbal with a lot of time to spare. I just wish I could have used the extra time I had left for those to help my (apparently) horrible essays! :laugh:
 
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Hey guys I was not at all slamming people when I said I did not need accommodations on the GRE. I myself -- an old guy -- have ADD, did not know it for many years, thus my delayed education. 🙂 What I was saying about taking the GRE was I personally did not find the rather barren and sparse room I took the test in was a distraction to me, nor were the three or four other people in the room with me at the time. I just brought a set of foam ear plugs (always have a few with me) and put them in before I began the test to filter out outside influences. I also made sure to take my vyvanse b4 I got there.

Sorry for snapping at you - it just seemed kind of callous to not give any of that background information. That, plus the fact that many of us are super protective of LVT2DVM and know her backstory...well, sometimes it's easy for me to forget you haven't been here for a long enough time.
 
As someone else with ADHD, I find it really obnoxious when people without ADHD assume that we are just exaggerating symptoms that "everyone" has, or that all types of "focusing" are the same, because they feel like the same for someone who has no problems with focus. I'm sorry that some of you feel like extra testing time is someone an added advantage, or that needing extra testing time somehow means that you are not competent enough to be a vet.

Of course, not everyone with ADHD uses the same solutions for their problems - for me, personally, added time is not something that I need, because I finish my tests well within the normal time frame most of the time, so I feel like it would be an unfair advantage, in my case, to ask for extra testing time just for the rare cases when I would need more time, so don't assume that everyone with ADHD is automatically going to want to ask for extra time. However, I think that for people with ADHD who are helped by extra testing time because they have trouble finishing tests within the normal time frame almost every time, then special accomodations should not be denied to them. I would be very upset if someone told me that taking my stimulant medication means that I won't be a good vet, because I need extra help in order to be on a level playing field with everyone else.

I think that until someone comes out with a study showing that folks with ADHD consistently make less competent veterinarians, then there should be no issue with letting people who's brains work differently use the additional accomodations needed, whether that is medication, additional testing time, or something else.

Critterfixer - thanks for your helpful comments. I totally agree about the too-much concentration viewpoint on ADHD. It's totally true for me as well, and it's always good to see another person with ADHD succeeding through vet school. This thread is showing that there are lots of people interested in vet med who have ADHD - I think the hands-on aspect of this job definitely makes it a really good match for ADHD folk!
 
The "playing field" will never be completely "level" imo. Different people have different abilities. Maybe if you have that much trouble with math (the questions are pretty simple for a college graduate), you should look into getting some outside help for it. For me, math is super easy, even in a standardized test situation. I finished both the GRE math and GRE verbal with a lot of time to spare. I just wish I could have used the extra time I had left for those to help my (apparently) horrible essays! :laugh:

I think you're absolutely right, I guess the "playing field" isn't ever level because everyone has different strengths and weaknesses...I also could have used more time for the essays. Just to clarify for the quantitative portion, I still scored well above the average accepted into vet school, I just like to recheck everything to be sure I have done it right...To be honest, I don't know what being a "college graduate" has to do with the math portion of the GRE, as I took Calc in college, I haven't do anything on the GRE since I was in high school.
 
I don't know what being a "college graduate" has to do with the math portion of the GRE, as I took Calc in college, I haven't do anything on the GRE since I was in high school.

I assume that if you are in college you can do math at a high school level, that's what I meant.
 
critterfixer has it 100% right. ADHD is about hyperfocus, not lack of focus. I was formally diagnosed about a year ago after hours and hours of psychoeducational testing. My grades are all over the place, from A's in histology and hemolymphatics to D's in optho.

Some subject literally present as 10 FT BRICK wALL in your mind. You CANNOT engage them, no matter how hard you try. Because your mind is intensely on something else. And it drives me crazy when people say "Oh, just try and focus. Make yourself do it, remove all distractions" You think I don't try? You think I like having a D on my transcript?" Eh. It's not that simple. Like telling an anorexic "Oh, just eat." But I'm going off on a tangent.

Then again, I am wary of accommodations.

I know that even though I have ADHD, I'm not going to get extra time to make that diagnosis, or extra time to write out my treatment plan, or extra time to read that slide out. You need to develop your own coping mechanisms for your "block" subjects (my pet word for stuff I cannot turn my mind to, things like optho and endocrinology). I've never accepted any accommodations. I know this isn't exactly on the topic thread, but I though I'd give my opinion. I think if you have a learning disability, you need to avoid accommodations as much as you can and focus on making *personal, positive coping mechanisms*.

I'm not calling anyone out for trying to take shortcuts, I'm just saying that accommodations are a very slippery slope, because one day you won't have them.

If they help you succeed "on paper" as in tests and things....sure, take em. But if you take them, you need to be conscious of that.

Medication to me is a totally different issue. It's an "intrinsic" accommodation, if you will, and flies just fine in the real world. Taking medication for ADHD is no different than insulin for diabetes. But help such as extra time, more breaks, different testing methods....that's taking *extrinsic* type of help, and something that doesn't fly in the job world. Kinda make sense?
 
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Just to clarify, when I took the test the first two times, I did not ask for accommodation and I did not finish over HALF the questions. It is not that I can't do high school math, its that I am VERY SLOW at it. No matter how much I practice, this never improves.

My verbal and analytical portion of the exam did not change with extra time. In fact, I scored lower on both portions. So extra time is not necessarily an advantage.

As far as other classes go, I NEVER ask for extra time unless the class or exam involves math. I know there are some people who abuse the system, but some of us work really hard and just because we ask for extra time when we need it doesn't mean we don't deserve our seat in vet school and it doesn't mean we wont be great veterinarians.

That was the point I was trying to make.
 
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Sorry for the multiple post!
 
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Sorry about the multiple postings. I guess I was a little impatient!
 
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Again, I would absolutely agree that you have to do whatever you can to succeed, I just wonder how you can really level the playing field.

..Well, I guess if you are Fred Astaire, you wear flat, comfortable shoes so that you can perform the same dance moves as Ginger Rogers. She did it in heels, and backwards, as the saying goes. Does anyone think Fred was not a competent dancer just because he couldn't wear heels? He performed masterfully with a minor accommodation.
 
Well, I guess if you are Fred Astaire, you wear flat, comfortable shoes so that you can perform the same dance moves as Ginger Rogers. She did it in heels, and backwards, as the saying goes. Does anyone think Fred was not a competent dancer just because he couldn't wear heels? He performed masterfully with a minor accommodation.

:roflcopter:
 
I am relieved to see others out there with ADD. I'm hesitant to really include myself in that category because I have not been formally diagnosed, but I do see myself in these posts. I was originally prescribed Ritalin as an adjunct treatment for depression and found that it also helped with concentration issues, which can be a symptom of depression (or of other issues). It has been a while since I needed it for depression, but I still get prescriptions for a low dose to help me when I'm having concentration issues. I guess I would characterize myself as having mild ADD symptoms. At my worst, such as this past week writing a cell bio lab report, my brain wanders and gets distracted so easily that, when I get it back on track and go back to my document, I found that I left off typing mid-word!

I actually did well on the SAT -- I liked those word problems because I was good at them, and back then I even liked math! We'll see how the GRE goes.
 
LVT2DVM
This thread has really gotten out of control! My goodness! Well, I wanted to give you some advice on your question at the beginning of your thread. I am a student with a learning disability which was acquired from a brain injury I sustained when I was hit by a car, so I did not always have one. Long story short, all learning disabilities are extremely different. Many people with learning disabilities are extremely bright, their mind and neurological pathways to retrieving and sending information may be a little different than someone who does not have a learning disability. Please don't ever think you cannot be a vet, because you most certainly can- a learning disability whatever it is does not hinder you to become the person you are supposed to be. We are all given something in our lives to deal with, some people are lucky to not have to deal with something and know what it is like to have to try that much harder at the same tasks. But it makes you a stronger person- so always keep your head up.

Now for accommodations- you need to have it documented, and then a lot of paper work needs to be completed and sent into ETS for review. I would give a good month for them to go through it before you schedule you GRE with accommodations. I did used accommodations for my GRE and I am not ashamed, nor am I ashamed I have a learning disability. Some are born with it and some are given it later in life. So I would certainly go that route and get your documentation all in line and get the paper work for ETS in order to be in there system for accommodations. You will usually declare which accommodations you would require for the examination, and ETS will decide which ones are applicable for you to take the GRE. Hope this helps! Keep your head up you aren't alone 😳
 
LVT2DVM
I just want to add my humble presence to the list, you are not alone, and you have MANY people who are here to back you up. You go girl! Do not let the naysayers get to you!

Rock on!
 
Hi,
I’m a student with learning disabilities who had an absolutely horrific experience with trying to write the GREs (seriously- it was like something out of the 50’s). I’ve since decided to take some action, and am asking for other students with disabilities who had bad experiences with ETS to forward me their personal stories. I’ll be putting them together and then sending them to ETS, the APA, CPA, and any other professional organization I can get (we may also consult with a lawyer).


I will also be circulating a petition for disabled and non-disabled persons to sign, demanding an inquiry into the testing situation and reforms to how they provide/facilitate accommodations.
If you’re interested in taking part in any way (to sign the petition when it’s officially up and running or to share your story), feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]
 
All learning disabilities are different, so making general statements about people who utilize "accommodations" makes you look ignorant. Often people with specific learning disabilities (ADD/ADHD/Dyslexia/ Dyscalculia) excel when exposed to applied problem-based learning compared to a didatic traditional-based style of learning. So I doubt clinical rotations will be a problem.


For example, I have a form of dyslexia that makes multiple choice questions difficult for me. As a practicing veterinarian am I going to be presented with 4 options and four answers? Obviously not. Therefore, my extended time accommodation does not reflect my ability to deal with life or death situations.

I know plenty of wonderful test takers that finish early and make high grades, however these same people are dangerous around animals because they lack the common sense required to keep themselves safe. What about those individuals that will fail as practicing veterinarians because they have horrible people skills? These traits are NOT conducive with a career in clinical medicine and should be the issues that people focus on.

Suggesting that there is a correlation between having a learning disability and leaving vet school is a little misguided. You don't know unequvically that those students didn't have other factors attributing to their release.



I agree with you here. Taking a test is much different that being in a stressful clinic situation. I do not have any type of learning disability and I can sometimes be distracted while taking an exam whether computer or paper-based. I think it is wrong to generalize anyone who may have a learning disability and needs extra help when taking an exam. Just because someone needs an extra 20 minutes in an exam doesn't mean they would make a bad veterinarian. However, I don't agree when you say that you know many wonderful test takers who finish early and make high grades would be dangerous around animals because they lack common sense. I happen to be someone who can look at or read something and remember it for days. It has allowed me to become a great test taker and I have plenty of common sense. I have been working around animals for over 4 years. I think it is wrong to generalize about anyone whether they take an exam well or have a learning disability. I wish everyone the best of luck on the GRE no matter how you have to take it. 🙂
 
However, I don't agree when you say that you know many wonderful test takers who finish early and make high grades would be dangerous around animals because they lack common sense. I happen to be someone who can look at or read something and remember it for days. It has allowed me to become a great test taker and I have plenty of common sense. I have been working around animals for over 4 years.

That's great for you, but TSUJC didn't say all people who are good at exams lack common sense so it is pretty irrelevant to the thread.
 
Wow. I'm obviously a little late to this party but it's a subject I'm pretty interested in and it's worth talking about some more.

It seems that a lot of people here have numerous misconceptions about about ADD and other disorders that affect people's school work. People with these disorders have a right to a level playing field in terms of their studies. It just so happens that the mainstream way of taking tests doesn't suit the needs of many people with such disorders. It pisses me off when people say: "well everyone gets distracted in tests, you need to learn to live with it, how will you ever be a doctor, lawyer vet etc etc" I will first counter these by saying that anyone who doesn't understand that people are unique with unique brains, and unique ways of learning should themselves stay away from anything involving higher level thinking. Second, if you don't suffer from hypersensitivity to sound (sensory sensitivity whatever you want to call it) you have no idea what its like. Sure someone tapping their foot during a test will annoy just about anyone, but again if you don't have ADD or other disorder you do not understand how jarring and unnerving it is to someone who is super sensitive to sound and distractions. Its bad enough that everyone has to fit into these standardized rubrics that just don't work well for everyone, heaven forbid these savages want a quiet place to take their test!

Why do people with ADD who sometimes have a hard time with standardized tests etc do just fine and often excel in their line of work? There are a number of reasons. One angle to understanding this is to understand what say Adderal does for someone with ADD. In simple terms people with ADD have parts of their brain their are under stimulated. Many people do not understand why children with ADHD (ADD with hyperactivity) are given stimulants like Adderal that are essentially low doeses of speed. The reason is that the parts of the brain used for filtering out distractions are under stimulated. So these drugs are helping to balance out some of these underutilized portions of the brain. Are these drugs given out way to much these days? You bet, but that's another topic. Also, being on your feet, interacting with people is a much different situation that answering poorly written test questions for extended periods of time. Many people with ADD are tactile hands on learners, again they/we just don't respond well to the idea of time constriats or these ridgid ultra formal testing enviorments. Many people are also very hyper aware of TIME itself. It's sort of hard to explain, but I had a great calc teacher once that allowed students with special needs to have as much time as they wanted. Funny thing is he told me he never had anyone abuse it or even feel the need, because the sense of the time constraint was lifted. He was a smart guy. I would also venture to say that in many cases where X student with ADD does bad on X standardized test said person would probably be above average if allowed to take the test in a conversational or open ended short answer formats. I personally hate multiple choice. Give me some questions and some blank pages and I'm set.

The idea that people with ADD who get special accommodations can't cut it in the "real world" completely flies in the face of reality. In fact, experience shows us, as someone else mentioned, that ironically many times the people who ace the toughest exams are miserable when it comes to interpersonal / social skills and general functioning in their jobs. People with ADD are usually very passionate about what they do. Again, as someone mentioned one of the side benefits of ADD is that it allows you to hyperfocus on complex tasks. You have no idea how many brilliant researchers, surgeons, etc who meticulously and cerebrally harness the benefits of their "disability". We need to move away from this one size fits all mentality in the classroom.
 
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That's great for you, but TSUJC didn't say all people who are good at exams lack common sense so it is pretty irrelevant to the thread.

Personally I think the point is irrelevant both ways. Sorry.

Anecdotal evidence that some good test takers make poor vets (or lack common sense or whatever) neither validates nor invalidates the test. I don't think I have to spell the logical flaws in that line of reasoning.

Is there any link between GRE scores and completion rate at vet school or success in the field? I would highly doubt it (but would be interested to see if such studies existed). And I seriously doubt the adcoms really believe that either.

In the end, I don't think GRE scores are the issue, it comes down to the fundamental issue of whether these medical conditions are considered a type of handicap or disability that deserve some type of accommodation. The rest of the debate is "a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing."

Personally I would say "yes", accommodation is called for -for what little my opinion matters.
 
Is there any link between GRE scores and completion rate at vet school or success in the field? I would highly doubt it (but would be interested to see if such studies existed). And I seriously doubt the adcoms really believe that either.

I personally think that GPA/etc matters little when it comes down to how good a doctor you will be--but here's a study that looked at completion of the veterinary school curriculum:

J Vet Med Educ. 2005 Winter;32(4):517-22.
Pre-matriculation indicators of academic difficulty during veterinary school.

Rush BR, Sanderson MW, Elmore RG.
Career Development and Professor of Equine Internal Medicine, College of Veterinary Medicine, Kansas State University, Manhattan, KS, 66506, USA. [email protected]
The purpose of this study was to assess pre-matriculation academic and demographic data to identify risk factors for academic difficulty and failure to graduate among veterinary students. Admissions data were compiled for 1,098 students admitted to veterinary college between 1989 and 2000 inclusive. Students were classified by (a) academic success, consisting of students who completed veterinary school within four years in the top 90% of the class or (b) academic difficulty, including students dismissed for academic reasons, students who experienced academic delay, and students who graduated with a cumulative GPA in the 10th percentile of their class. Of 1,098 admitted students, 930 (84.7%) completed veterinary school within four years in the top 90% of their class. Among students with academic difficulty, 94 (8.6%) completed veterinary school in four years in the 10th percentile, 44 (4%) experienced academic delay, and 30 (2.7%) were dismissed. Academic difficulty was associated with a low prerequisite GPA, a low GRE score, poor undergraduate institutional selectivity, and older age (> or =35 years). Students who attended three-or-more undergraduate institutions or two-year colleges prior to attending a four year institution were 1.9 times more likely to experience academic difficulty and 3.87 times more likely to fail to graduate than students who attended a four-year institution (major or small) to complete their prerequisites. These study findings may assist with early identification of students at greater risk of experiencing academic difficulty and support the consideration of cognitive selection criteria (GRE and GPA) and undergraduate institutional experience during the admissions process.
 
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